anyone ever got into legal troubles from ordering Research Chemicals over the net?

[Niteflights]

A certain SWIM I know just got an email response from a certain chap named xxxxxxx and apparently a large order of tryptamines (20g) was seized by US customs. SWIM is a bit concerned as at least one of the items was scheduled (foxy) . Although SWIM didn't use his real name the package was addressed to SWIM's home. The chemicals where not labelled with the real names, and they probably were well concealed which makes SWIM even more nervous that they were discovered. Other shipments SWIM had received from this supplier have been extremely well concealed.

SWIM is curious what to expect. Also SWIM is curious if now his address and pseudonym are in a permanent customs database and any subsequent shipments will be flagged and inspected.

Glad this didn't happen to me.

Anyone been in this situation?
Cheers,
Andrei

[fnord]

Originally Posted by Niteflights

A certain SWIM I know just got an email response from a certain chap named xxxxxxx and apparently a large order of tryptamines (20g) was seized by US customs. SWIM is a bit concerned as at least one of the items was scheduled (foxy) . Although SWIM didn't use his real name the package was addressed to SWIM's home. The chemicals where not labelled with the real names, and they probably were well concealed which makes SWIM even more nervous that they were discovered. Other shipments SWIM had received from this supplier have been extremely well concealed.

SWIM is curious what to expect. Also SWIM is curious if now his address and pseudonym are in a permanent customs database and any subsequent shipments will be flagged and inspected.

Glad this didn't happen to me.

Anyone been in this situation?
Cheers,
Andrei

what ended up happening to your buddy?

[Niteflights]

Fortunately, SWIM laid low and nothing ever happened to him, no follow up... nothing. However with modern homeland sec. databases I am certain that the attempted delivery is on file somewhere... even though he has since moved to another state.

This brings another important question to mind. The USA is becoming more dangerous for any type of research. I wonder what the contrast would be between the USA and countries like Germany and Canada when importing research material. I have heard Canada is comparitively safe when importing research material.

stay safe
Nite

[Micutzul]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

^good point, sheesh, nothing scares me more than hearing some semi-experinced researcher proclaim: "i want to give a friend 4 or 6 mg DOx, cause i've known him for awhile, and even though he's never done any, i know exactly what he's going too feel like" ...

I hope no one actually proclaims this s . This would be an actual horror movie scenario ( at least for the person doing the DOx)


Anyway , a seven-tentacled Amoeba of which i heard in an astral projection plane has ordered piperazines over the internet and has had basically no problems .

As nanobrain stated , if authorities would really want to find you , you could be taking most precautions and they would still run up on your ass in seconds . So the only real matter of discussion should be what could be done in the case that they find you . And in this case what matters mooost is that the chemical must not be illegal ( must not be specified in the illegal substance schedule of your country ) . Also , it should not be possibly subject to any analogue laws ( if you want to be extra-super safe ) . If you live in a country that has no analogue law , then you can consider yourself particularly lucky .

[Micutzul]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

^good point, sheesh, nothing scares me more than hearing some semi-experinced researcher proclaim: "i want to give a friend 4 or 6 mg DOx, cause i've known him for awhile, and even though he's never done any, i know exactly what he's going too feel like" ...

I hope no one actually proclaims this s . This would be an actual horror movie scenario ( at least for the person doing the DOx)


Anyway , a seven-tentacled Amoeba of which i heard in an astral projection plane has ordered piperazines over the internet and has had basically no problems .

As nanobrain stated , if authorities would really want to find you , you could be taking most precautions and they would still run up on your ass in seconds . So the only real matter of discussion should be what could be done in the case that they find you . And in this case what matters mooost is that the chemical must not be illegal ( must not be specified in the illegal substance schedule of your country ) . Also , it should not be possibly subject to any analogue laws ( if you want to be extra-super safe ) . If you live in a country that has no analogue law , then you can consider yourself particularly lucky .


Also , don't store them in a way that could even vaguely suggest human consumption . Do not label the research chemicals in any way except their chemical name ( especially not known street names ) .If you want them in gelcaps , only put the chemical in them right before what ever you may want to do with them . Also , i would recommend not keeping empty gelcaps ( they're quite a good indication of intent to consume or even distribute, especially in the hundreds ) . Fill them up with a cheap dietary supplement and keep them in a medicine recipient , even label it " Dietary supplement ABC " . Just empty them before use . That way , in the unlikely event of a raid on your home , you would be as safe as possible .

And if for some reason you also have a homemade pill press , please make it in such a way that it can be broken down in primary components that are not suspicious , and store the primary components separately throughout your house when you are not using the press . If you also have tablet excipients used in pressing pills , please choose the kind that is not suspicious ( for example amidone ,lactose,sucrose , NOT Silicified microcrystalline cellulose or magnesium stearate) . Also be ready to state a common perfectly legal purpose for them ( baking cookies , etc ) .

AND DO NOT KEEP A TRIP DIARY ON A REAL-LIFE NOTEBOOK , OR A CUSTOMER NOTEBOOK IF YOU INTEND TO SELL IT - some people will sell them , it's unavoidable , we can just hope they will do it responsibly - . These notebooks would be the best evidence of human consumption /distribution . It should be pretty common sense not to do this , but i'm sure at least one person who uses RC's has such a thing . If you absolutely need to keep a diary , do it over the internet , in the most anonymous ,encrypted ,password protected way possible .

Now if you follow all these instructions you very greatly reduce chances of getting in any kind of trouble . Even if those chances are initially quite low , as you can see from most posts on this thread . Usually , suppliers get targeted . But , in my opinion , just a bit of paranoia goes a long way in safety . take care

[Nagognog2]

Ya know, Nano - sometimes it takes being arrested and having to sit in front of an attorney (barrister) who is laughing at them as the person explains their reasoning of why they are innocent to get the fool to shut up and listen.

"But it's for research purposes! Not DRUG USE! I was giving it to my retarded friend Ernie. Said he wanted to try it! I'm doing RESEARCH!"

"Research on Ernie? Isn't that drug use?"

"NO!! Ernie's retarded! He's not a Human Being!"

"Better let me tape your mouth shut..."

[snapper]

SWIM still thinks that claiming to be a collector is the best defense if it comes down to it. Be up front about all acquisitions (once legal respresentation is present and has been consulted), and then proclaim that the value of said chemicals is strictly collectable. They are novel, rare and of historical significance. Only a crazy person would actually risk their neck ingesting them, but SWIM is proudly the owner of a piece of drug policy history. Also ditch any things that are scheduled. There is nothing in most places that prohibits possession if no usage, sale or other distribution is implicated (and obviously the compound is not scheduled).
People collect all kind of stuff. Some collect barbie dolls, doorknobs, bottlecaps, stamps, sexual aids, virgin mary impressions in toast - why not chemicals ? Probably at least half true for many SWIMs here.
Never indicate using them on any other organism, human or otherwise. That could trigger a whole new set of charges.
Snapper

[nanobrain]

and remember, you are only interested in investigating these chemicals in your quest to create a new and improved hands-free toilet cleaning agent.

[Elian_NWA]

In terms of legal troubles, not at this time.


With the remote chance that customs actually opens your package (i've had it happen once so far) they will either read the contents and let it through or just take it. mine was let through. i wouldnt worry about getting a knock though

[nanobrain]

Originally Posted by Elian_NWA

In terms of legal troubles, not at this time.


With the remote chance that customs actually opens your package (i've had it happen once so far) they will either read the contents and let it through or just take it. mine was let through. i wouldnt worry about getting a knock though

^do not listen to above advice as obviously it pertains to this individual's own unique interpretation of geography, legislature and reality.

[old hippie 56]

If the customs are going to open the mail, they are wary of: the return address, the receipent. Never heard of the customs opening a package and not sealing it with green tape. Never happen to me, but a buddy of swims has one.

[ponygirl]

Green tape? What does that mean?

[old hippie 56]

The dreaded green tape is a sign that customs has snagged your package and removed the contents, replaced them with a letter saying the contents is unlawful to ship to the US. Then resealed with green tape.

[bman1]

Swim knows someone who oredered a chemical to the US from an old friend who is no longer in business. It was taken by customs and was re sealed with what look like scotch tape, not a green tape. There was also no love letter.

[snapper]

Bman1, is that someone sure that it was not a postal employee or other thief that took it ? How does this someone know it is customs ?

Snapper

[bman1]

Swims friend is sure it was not a postal employee. The supplier told swim the day the supplier sent out many things to that country and most got this treatment.

The supplier had also told this person this was not the first time it had happened.

[Nagognog2]

Tell SWIM this is a good time to pay his lawyer, and take a vacation.

If there is anything worse than a psychedelic drug that reveals GOD in the eyes of the US Christian Right - it's a psychedelic that shows you GOD and also gives you an erection: Pop A Rod For God! Pop A Rod For God!

They'll hang you for that. Pass that on to SWIM.

[anj0vis]

I will give a short story about a guy I know from northern europe and the system there..

Friend of mine ordered some chemicals form china and it got into customs. Shipment was very official, it had the names of chemicals on top with all legal papers with them. They were not illegal at the time in any way, but still shit happened. When the package got into customs, it took about a month for customs to contact this guy. In the meanwhile they had analyzed the chemicals and placed them into medicinal drugs category (similar to sched. III-IV in US I think). This poor fellow got a charge for illegal importing of drugs. The actual fine was rather small, but the lesson is that in some places it doesn't even help if the substances are completely legal at the time of ordering, as they can be placed into some schedules while they are being analyzed in the customs. It also seemed highly suspicious to customs for a private person to receive laboratory chemicals in person and not under some company name, that was apparently what triggered the custom seizure.

live and learn..

edit: note that most places these days send them in sleek letters that says nothing about chemicals inside.

[dr ACE]

Originally Posted by anj0vis

edit: note that most places these days send them in sleek letters that says nothing about chemicals inside.

thats a good point swim makes in his post there, but discussing the details of the package type, letter/envelope style, whats written on it, etc ,is not a good idea theres no need too at all.all that does is help to make more public the methods used by vendors and swims sure most swims in the gold section know this already

[radiometer]

the lesson is that in some places it doesn't even help if the substances are completely legal at the time of ordering, as they can be placed into some schedules while they are being analyzed in the customs.

That's a very good point which is not made often enough.

[renegades]

Well let's hear it from the horse's mouth:
Notice: Solicitation of Information on the Use of Phenethylamine-Related Compounds [sent to manufactures]
October 20, 2006
The DEA is soliciting information on substances that are related in chemical structure to phenethylamine ...The Controlled Substances Act (CSA), lists certain phenethylamines as schedule I controlled substances. Some phenethylamines that are not controlled under the CSA produce central
nervous system effects that are similar to phenethylamines that are controlled under the CSA. DEA is requesting information to help determine the impact on business if these substances were to be placed
under control in the CSA.Individuals have published detailed methods of synthesis for substituted phenethylamines and have reported pharmacological effects based on user experiences. Law enforcement personnel encounter such phenethylamines, but because they are substituted differently than those listed or described in the CSA, they are not subject to direct
control in schedule I. However, some of these substances can be treated as schedule I controlled substance analogues if intended for human
consumption (21 U.S.C. 802(32); 813).

The way Swim read this, if swim does not intend to consume it, it is not illegal, in other words, don't have it in a gel cap. They even say that law enforcement personnel...are finding out that the drugs are not subject to direct control. That is why there is a sinister plot to make them CSAs. They lost a court case where they used the analog law when the jury did not buy into the fact that since DMT is illegal then 5MEO-DMT should be illegal. It is like comparing Tylenol#3 with Tylenol regular strength and claiming them the same pill because they relieve headaches.
The male who gave his girl friend a vial of 3 grams of 5meo-dmt, was charged with Police for distribution of a controlled substance under the Analogue Act, when her father found the drug and turned it into authorities. The jury found that the two drugs DMT and 5MEO-DMT are significantly different substances and becasuse of those conconclusions found for the defendent." That sure pulled the fangs out of the analogue act. Add that to the head of the DEA saying that "some not all" fall under the analogue act plus "it has to be packaged for human consumption."
Right now, with the current laws, swims feels it would be difficult to prosecute someone for importing a small amount of an RC. It can be done by an overzealos prosecuter (ie, Patrick Fitzerald, Billy-Bob in Texas, duke lacrosse team prosecuter), but they will lose the case. That is why the DEA feels it needs to make all of Pikal drugs CSAs. Then there is no grey area. The DEA don't even have to prove a drug danagerous to reclassify it. This will happen in the summer of 2007. The only problem is identiying the chemical for prosecution. With 100 milligrams, there is not much there for tests considering there are over 250 RCs, and the RC needs to be identified to bring charges against swim.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good info, good points.

[radiometer]

This will happen in the summer of 2007.

Can you cite a source for that proposed timeline?

[renegades]

Just a guess, swim says they have been collecting RC information from businesses since July 2006 wrapping up on Dec 8 2006. Then I think there is some process that a compound must go through to be classified as a CSA. It will happen. You know how much it costs businesses to do this type of research for the DEA. It is too costly to be a fishing expedition but is an attempt to classify RCs as CSAs.

[DrMuffy]

SWIdr has been researching RCs and is VERY interested in the subject. He has read most of the threads in the RC forum and still has lots of questions on the basics and RCs in general. If anyone knows any reliable books that can tell SWIdr about RCs and such, please PM SWIdr!

NO SOURCES

Reputation Comments on this post:

off topic.

[London_Bloke]

Originally Posted by DrMuffy

Also SWIdr forgets if asking for someone to PM internet sources to oneself is illegal on DF, so he will not ask anyone to do so....yet until he finds out if it follows the rules. If any mods could give SWIdr a little help on the sources rules relationship to this case, please do.

The rules are: no discussion of sources either in the forum or in PM. Alfa has anti-dealing software in place. The only thing SWIDr can do is start by deciding which substance(s) are of interest and commence to Googling chemical names.

(totally off topic but I have to ask) I almost didn't answer this post - your avatar is freaking me out completely. Bad juju. Seriously. Why Charlie? Just curious....