What drugs help with Lucid Dreaming?

[Richard_smoker]

Hi. This is the dream about dreaming that I promised I would post.

I will explain more about the dreamstate, REM sleep, sleep cycles, states of consciousness and dreaming, how to achieve lucidity through habits & devices, what books/audio are worth a damn and which ones are crap, techniques of the Tibetan Dream monks, etc.

But this is a trip-report of sorts... I hope to express to everyone the various drugs and drug combos which have proven most beneficial to me and various people I have known. My list is by no means comprehensive, but it should be extremely helpful, and a good starting ground, perhaps. However, no serious dream researcher should leave out the other non-pharmaceutical approaches, some reading about what to expect and how to do it, and if you've got some extra cash, you can buy yourself one of the REM sleep alerting devices that I have found useful, and use electronic devices during your waking life as well--to remind you to constantly question your reality--as this is the essential 'point' of lucid dream work and its underlying philosophy as well... to learn to know and understand the interwoven similarities between "real-life" and dreams--and how to use mind-control to master both realities--as if dreams were 'real' and real life were as flexible as a dream.

OK. Here are the drugs.

Calea zacatechichi--the dream herb. Increases frequency, duration, and memory of dreams. Legal status: LEGAL. I recommend smoking this in its concentrated form. The best deal I found on it was where it was sold as an oral encapsulated 10X extract. After taking almost the entire bottle before sleep, I suddenly got the bright idea of smoking the hash-like contents and discovered a profound effect on increasing the realism of dreams, the length of the dream cycle (without increasing REM sleep), and the level of subjective reality attained in dreams. The problem with this drug/herb is that you basically need an entire 4-6 hours of extra sleep time as it will cause many individuals to sleep well into the next day. Not sure why. In my experience, I want to keep sleeping because the dreams are so great that I don't like waking up and ruining them. The dreams are better after your full night of sleep is over--thus waking up to go to work is very difficult on Calea. Essentially, you are denying yourself the best part of the experience.

SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT VALIUM, XANAX, KLONAPIN:
Benzos and other benzo-like sleeping medications: i.e. ambien, sonata, lunesta. Do NOT take benzos if you want to dream! These drugs are actually USED by physicians to REMOVE the dreaming component of sleep in patients with night terrors!! Benzo's (valium, xanax, klonopin, etc.) destroy your ability to dream. I've read reports from others to the contrary, but this stands in opposition to known scientific/medical knowledge. Not to say someone was lying--just highly unique reaction to the drugs. 9 times out of 10, xanax will greatly decrease the amount of REM sleep that a person will experience. Alcohol does the same.

Benadryl (diphenhydramine). This drug is a great sleeping agent for many people. Most people take their dosage (25-75mg) up to 2 full hours before bedtime. This provides for a true 'knockout' at bedtime and much less chance of a 'hangover' in the morning. Here you get actual drowsy sleepiness in which your original REM sleep (hypnagogic hallucinations) will overpower you as soon as your head hits the pillow.

Melatonin. Many people swear by melatonin as a dream-enhancer. Not surprising given that it is a tryptamine that is naturally secreted by the pineal gland (right?) to initiate "night-time sequence" in the brain. Although I have never read this recommendation in a 'herbal' literature or even on a bottle of melatonin... the drug/hormone is taken 1.5 to 2 hours before sleep to initiate or re-establish a normal circadian rhythm.

5-OH-Tryptophan. 5OHT or tryptophan. Like the naps after thanksgiving turkey, this one will help induce dreams in many people. I forget the details off-hand, but it has been my personal experience that this one and melatonin are almost interchangeable... only this works much sooner to bedtime.

others...
Marijuana: the verdict is not completely out on this one. it is a complex beast. most agree that the best use of MJ is to take a SMALL hit upon waking in the morning... try and keep yourself awake for a full 30 minutes, before going back to bed for another 90 minutes, during which, you will experience a complete sleep-cycle who's end component will be mostly REM sleep.

Dream Herbal Smoke blends. These contain all kinds of nasty stuff like catnip and others. I didn't enjoy them one bit. Maybe they work for others...

LOW DOSE: LSD, Psilocybin, tryptamines--remember you still have to be able to FALL ASLEEP on the drug!



Another technique altogether is to deprive yourself of REM sleep--leading to something called REM-rebound. The idea is that when your body is starved of REM, it will click very quickly into REM sleep soon after you fall asleep. So, you can deprive yourself of REM sleep for a variable number of nights, and then on the NEXT night, you remove the REM inhibitor, and you should have a noticeable increase in REM.

Ways to Induce REM Rebound (how to inhibit REM):
Alcohol. just ask an alcoholic what happens when they fall asleep without drinking...! In your case, the experience should be regular dreams instead of nightmares. The nightmares reflect the body's state of dysequilibrium from withdrawal. So, don't do this if you're an alcoholic!
Benzodiazapenes same as alcohol. again, don't do this if you're addicted. Withdrawal from both alcohol and benzos can lead to seizures and death.
Sleep deprivation (stimulants, amphetamines, etc.) many of you tweakers know about this one... many believe this is what causes those OEVs after staying awake for days on end.


Please PM me with obvious mistakes and I will correct them. I do not intend to start a big argument over a misstatement. I can just edit.

Thanks guys, there's much more coming up... until then, it's ZZZzzzzzzz....

Reputation Comments on this post:

	very interesting post about sleep
	very helpful info, nice explanation of alternatives to the illegal use of drugs
	Great info, thanks.

[napoleon in rags]

Hi! I'm not sure if this is the right forum or not.... i figure so.

Does anyone know of any drugs that are known to help with lucid dreaming? I've been Lucid for a matter of months now, and as i'm honing my ability i've heard of some people using recreational drugs to help with the dreams.

Right now, the only thing I take is Vitamin B6 and Melatonin on a semi-regular basis. They seem to help.

One time, after a night of 2C-I I went to bed early and had the most INTENSE dreams before morning. Even though the drug was well worn off by then, I still feel that it had some effect.

[Alicia]

Swims boys says using opium just before bed can cause dreams, often very fantesy based dreams, Absinth with enough wormwood can cause dreams as well.

Try eating cheese before bed, that works to

[Jatelka]

See this thread here:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...t=Lucid+Dreams

[Ho0k3d0nChRoNiC]

i have actually been reading about lucid dreaming for the past week or two..

its very interesting

[lojzarb]

I've heard the Calea helps improve lucid dreaming greatly. I have never tried it, but I have read that smoking a joint of Calea right before bed will cause extremely lucid dreams.

I've been practicing lucid dreaming for some time now as well. Do you use any particular method to control your dreaming?

[Richard_smoker]

Hey guys, sorry I didn't quite finish some of the stuff I mentioned in that last post.

Calea definitely helps, but you've still got to really TRY and become lucid. Some ways to this are: set your alarm clock to go off at different times during the night--or if you sleep alone, you can have a sound or recording go off from your computer at various times during the night to kinda jar you out of sleep. This is very helpful to stimulate your conscious mind just a little bit out of the dream state.

Remember that when you fall asleep, your sleep cycles being running. They are 90 minutes long from falling asleep to finishing REM. The REM portion gets longer and longer as you aquire more cycles (the longer you're asleep).

The best way to get good at the practice is to make yourself wake up 2-3 hours early in the morning. and really wake up. get some breakfast, read the paper, whatever for 30 minutes. Now, when you go back to sleep, you will run through another 90 minute cycle. Your chance of picking up lucidiy during this cyle is unbelievable.

I've found that Calea smoked the night before REALLY helps this early morning chance of lucidity. I don't know why it keeps working so long, but it does! I can usually still find lucidity on the following night's sleep as well--especially if it's good calea.

I got really big into lucid dreaming. The biggest problem for me is that you start turning into an all-day sleeper! when you hit a few good ones in the 90minute morning practice, you're going to be so excited that you're gonna start wanting to make up excuses to take 90-minute breaks all day at work! lol

[Nature Boy]

I've been experiencing some bizarre dreams recently which always seem to have dogs in them for some reason. Last week SWIM was smoking strong skunk before going to bed and kept having dreams where little dogs were biting him on the hand anytime he tried to pet them. This week SWIM is smoking mellower weed and keeps having dreams where he's helping dogs by bringing them in from the rain, feeding them etc. It's most bizarre and seems like it may be symbolic. SWIM had a pet dog but he died last year.

[Richard_smoker]

Very interesting that you say your dog died last year.

They teach counselors to elicit the true meaning of dreams from the dreamer themselves. In other words, asking questions that are totally open-ended, and this the response is usually the meaning of the dream... like the saying about you knew the answer all along--it was in here (pointing at your head)

[dreamatrix]

try some psychedelics ,, salvia being the best one for causing ultra weird dreams swim finds,, when somth ultra weird - ok dreams are weird by themselve , but some stuff realy go's of the scale after some sally - happens to you in your dreams and you go to sleep with the id of noticing that stuff it will be easier to become lucid and carry on your dreamplan , aside from that , swim finds drugs to make dreams more vivid and weird but whitout the lucid aspect they still stay just dreams hehe

[hazeinmybong2]

If anyone wants to see a real cool movie about lucid dreaming called waking life drop me a PM. Its really trippy animation.

[Alfa]

Also see this root: Entada rheedii
BTW merged threads about this topic.

[Beeker]

As someone who loves the Lucid dream state.

the ONLY compound I know of that causes real Lucid dreaming (waking up in a dream and saying to yourself, "WTF?!? I'm dreaming! Lets change this as I want! Fly out window, create new world, add interesting people, forget the people add sweet hot women. Run program, dream state fast car. etc."

30mg Mirtazapine for two nights no more then 2 weeks daily. Know that you will go from a 34 jeans to a 38 jeans on 7 grams of fat a day though.

SWIM submitted to Erowid sooo much but they are all about Euphoria or simple reports there.

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM had some incredibly vivid dreams with the sleep aid Rozerem. Rozerem binds the melatonin M1 and M2 receptors. this could be part of the reason it seemed to produce so much more vivid imagery than a standard sleeping pill. maybe with work it could produce lucid dreams? just an inquiry, not really a reccomendation.

[Pinkavvy]

Narcolepsy helps too

[DxCore]

Thats very interesting. Is there was to produce lucid dreaming with-out the use of pills? aka different foods as i saw someone saying cheese helps. I ask this because im trying to stop usuing most substances.

and for these sleep aids they are prescribed am i right?


Thanks
DxCore

[Alicia]

yep cheese can do it, does it for swim anyway, get some bread/ some cheese, place cheese slices in bread like a sandwhich put on plate but in microwave until cheese is all melted then wait ... and eat. If that does'nt work it still tastes nice anyway drink milk with it as well. then try going to sleep. try to have an empty stomach before hand.

[IHrtHalucingens]

SWIM has noticed that heavy amounts of marijuana before bed makes his dreams very vivid and quite lucid, as well as extremely imaginative.

[Alicia]

odd swim can only ever dream when she has a brake from the weed for a couple of days.

[IHrtHalucingens]

Just goes to show how differently some substances effect different people. I find it very interesting.

[Alicia]

It is interesting, swim even finds that the dreams come back often very fast some quite disturbing, others weird , but hardly ever dream only in certain drug states and when the weed runs out, if swim were sober she'd probly be dreaming every-night.

[Richard_smoker]

Originally Posted by DxCore

Thats very interesting. Is there was to produce lucid dreaming with-out the use of pills? aka different foods as i saw someone saying cheese helps. I ask this because im trying to stop usuing most substances.

and for these sleep aids they are prescribed am i right?

Drug-free: FRESH turkey... that's right, if you're too cheap/inexperienced of a chef to do the fresh, you should call around to local grocery stores/deli's and see if there's some kind of rotiserie-type deal where they actually have turkey that was recently RAW.

OTC: all the sleep aids that I mentioned were OTC. Benadryl (diphenhydramine) is found in tylenol PM, etc. But if you wanna get it cheap, just look for the generic allergy pills.

also, the herbs are legal (except weed--but this one is a shitty choice as it's often hit-or-miss)

[glitterfly]

WOW i really wish i could give out rep points b/c this is such a great post! especially for sleep disordered people like me. never knew that about the benzos. way to go richard!!!

Reputation Comments on this post:

i like it! you will be moving up soon enough, eh? ;)

[RealGanjaMan]

Originally Posted by IHrtHalucingens

SWIM has noticed that heavy amounts of marijuana before bed makes his dreams very vivid and quite lucid, as well as extremely imaginative.

SWIM agrees with SWIY. Marjiuana seems to be SWIM's number one sleep aid. Good 'Ole Mary Jane. She only puts SWIM to sleep if he's ready to go to sleep. When SWIM is ready to go to sleep she gently puts him to sleep and greatly effects and intensifies SWIM's dreams. Then he wakes up, feeling more refreshed than ever. And SWIM can repeat this as often as he wants, it never gets any worse. She really is a Wonder Drug.

-RGM

[Richard_smoker]

One thing that is pretty common is a phenomenon known as REM Rebound.

When your brain is deprived of REM sleep, it has a tendency to react by experiencing a HUGE bump in REM cycles (length of each REM cycle, and quickness in falling into REM).

How can you produce this?

Well, for starters, you could try sleep-deprivation... not the brightest idea, but it will work. Some think this is why hallucinations occur after a long stimulant binge causing sleep deprivation.

also, you can just deprive yourself of REM itself! This is VERY easy--just take something to inhibit REM for a couple of nights... like benzos or alcohol to sleep, followed by a "cold-turkey" night where you suddenly release the REM-inhibition.*

If MJ causes you to NOT dream, then maybe try smoking the SHIT out of it for 2-3 nights before bed, followed by your 'lucid' night immediately following.

Other substances reported to increase REM duration and quality:
1. Vitamin E,
2. Caffeine (small doses of course--this seems to work well during daytime-naps), and
3. even though they are benzo-derivatives, many report great dreams on ambien, sonata, and ?possibly Lunesta?...

4. ?piracetam?--I propose an experiment amongst those who enjoy dreaming/lucidity to explore the potential of various cognitive enhancers... piractam and family, vinpocetine, huperzine, and any of the other acetylcholine-esterase inhibitors used in alzheimer's disease.

Somebody get back with me on the Lunesta... the only thing I know about this one is that it knocks me out like a LIGHT BULB! Good luck staying awake on this one!

-Dick

*be careful with this method of inducing REM rebound. Any alcoholic will tell you that if you drag out the inhibition period for TOO long, then your sleep will be filled with nightmares and sweat!