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  #1  
Old 17-06-2011, 05:30
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

I'm currently on 125 mcg/hour Watson patches (1-100 and 1-25) and I have noticed that now I have a much higher tolerance to other opiates/opioids. Prior to the patch, I could take 30-45 mg. oxycodone, get fair pain relief, and still feel warm and fuzzy. Now, oxycodone, MSIR, and MSER have absolutely no effect whatsoever! I went to hydromorphon (first 2, then 4, now 8 mg.) and oxymorphon (opana ER 40 mg.), and still feel nothing.

Today I took 3-8 mg hydromorphon and about 2 hours later chewed 2 opana 40's.

Nothing!

Is fentanyl so much stronger that tolerance to other opiates should be this high?

All of my meds are legit prescriptions for chronic pain and I rarely take them other than as directed, but occasionally I look for that "wrapped in a cloud" feeling. I am somewhat worried that I might find that "just enough" will turn out to be "too much" with a tolerance like this!

Post Quality Evaluations:
This is a very imporant factor that prescibing physicians should be aware of.
  #2  
Old 18-06-2011, 00:38
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Exactly my experience -- I was fairly high Oxycodone tolerant before back surgery in October... and I could take a LOT of Percocet 10's in a day, or 4 30's easy.

After surgery I wound up with a 25mcg patch, and stayed on it after surgery. Within a few weeks I realized Percocet no longer had effect, literally 4 7.5's at a time was basically a minimm to feel anything, at all. It then occured that roxicet, 4 was no longer a whole days worth of great oxycodone pain relief feeling, 8 was more like it and 8 wasn't exactly all that endgame.

after maybe a month or two 25mcg didn't have much effect, and I went to 50mcg. Actually that was a mistake. As of this writing I took of the 50mcg patch the last one, as I am switching to something else, we are going to try to find a different pain medicine "recipe" and plan, and I am now patchless and will be on Avinza, 24-hour extended rls. morphine sulfate. It takes 12-15 hours for the fentanyl in your skin to be used up so I will see how i feel in the morning.

But to answer your question, as it was also answered to me: the patches don't just increase your tolerance real high, it's ROCKET BOOSTED POWER THRU THE SKY high. I feel ruined now.
  #3  
Old 18-06-2011, 02:16
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

This is what I was afraid of! Unfortunately, I am way past percs of any strength and morphine too, for that matter. My doctor said that if I wanted to stay with morphine, I would be going with 100 mg. at a time. That is not an option, because I have bad reactions to the histamine release and vasco-constriction effects.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
  #4  
Old 21-06-2011, 13:22
Solinari Solinari is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Yes, of course it does, it's called cross tolerance. Maybe it's not really cross tolerance since it's the same family of drugs that is being used, ie. opioid agonists.

Other examples of cross tolerance would be barbiturates and benzodiazepines.

Morphine can cause many people to have serious problems with histamine release to the extent where one could say they are allergic to morphine. There is nothing you can do about it really.
  #5  
Old 21-06-2011, 23:15
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Hmm....I'm not really talking about cross tolerance here. Perhaps I phrased my original question poorly. OK, after re-reading this thread, I see I wasn't very clear at all, so let me try again.

Why does Fentanyl, more so than any other narcotic pain medication, cause such a high cross tolerance?

For instance, if you are taking oxycodone, you can still take hydrocodone and get an opiate "buzz". If you are taking morphine, you can take oxycodone and get the buzz. If you are taking oxymorphon, you can take hydromorphon and feel the effects.

If you are on fentanyl, none of the above seem to have any effect whatsoever!

Is fentanyl so strong that it completely "overpowers" other narcotic pain relievers? And if so, why?

Hopefully that is somewhat clearer. It would seem that fentanyl negatively affects my ability to phrase a fairly simple question. LOL!
  #6  
Old 21-06-2011, 23:42
xionoland xionoland is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

wow, it seems like none other pharmaceutic opioid's boost your tolerance faster then fentanyl. Even methadone.. I have never heard of a heroin user that had a so rapid increase in tolerance like the fentanyl users. I think the human synthetics opioid almost have some worse issues compared to the natures opiates...(morphine)
  #7  
Old 01-07-2011, 09:08
Herbs&Hopes Herbs&Hopes is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Okay, I have recently tried fentanyl, prescribed for legit pain relief. I started on the 25mcg/hr patch, and less than a month later went to the 50mcg/hr patch as the 25 was not cutting it. I was on fentanyl for just under 2 months. About a month into the fentanyl tried I took kratom for a couple days [6-7g ea. dose]. I was getting pain relief for 3-4 hours still, and nearly just as strong as prior the fentanyl. 3 weeks later, after up'ing to the 50mcg/hr, when I got around to taking kratom again, I noticed I got 1-1.5 hours of pain relief from [8g] kratom. I was started on 5/325 percocets, 4-4x day. I would get 1-2 hours of pain relief from that amount, more like 1-1.5hours, I would then take kratom every 2-4 hours for the rest of the day after going through all my [16] percocets for the day. I am now on [12 daily, 2 every 4 hours] 10mg supeudol/oxycodone IR [no acetaminophen]. I get 1.5-2 hours of pain relief from 20mg. I get 3-4 hours of pain relief from 40mg taken all at once, I can get 5-6 hours of workable pain relief from 20mg and then 10 mg and hour later (ingested or insufflated) and 10 mg and hour again after that (ingested or insufflated, doesnt seem to matter at this point). Currently I get 2-2.5 hours of pain relief from 6-7 grams of kratom. 8 grams of kratom once again makes me sick every time. and even 7 gram dosages the past 2 days have been making me more and more nauseated requiring management to avoid vomiting so tolerance is still resetting/decreasing even though I have not been able to take any actual breaks for even just a day and have been dosing round the clock with both oxycodone and kratom since being on the fentanyl.

I will take a wild guess and fathom that because fentanyl is so rapidly metabolised (in under an hour) that while wearing a patch (or if smoking hits every hour) the body adapts and begins metabolising all narcotic-substances as well as our own endogenous opioid peptides in the same time-frame as fentanyl is metabolised. Fentanyl has such a strong affinity for the receptors that anything weaker is metabolised according to the body's 'biologically-adapted-fentanyl-metabolism' and probably even quicker due to the weaker binding profile. Does that make sense? I just downed some ruby red GFJ [tropicana] and am having 2 tums and 40 mg of supeudol for bedtime, kinda sore and just waiting at the moment....

I tried speaking about it, the fentanyl messing with efficacy of weaker affinity meds in the same class, with my doctor before taking it in the first place and he simply said, 'Things do not work that way.' and said my concern had no real foundation in the medical literature; I think he just didnt want to discuss details of the narcotics or genuinely does not have a good understanding of how receptors work with cross-tolerance and related aspects, probably because he doesnt take drugs, just reads about them, attends presentations from corporate promoters of the industry and then turns around and hands them out to us. Or maybe he thought I was concerned I would not be able to get high after taking fentanyl and just didn't want to answer.

Post Quality Evaluations:
interesting theory on metabolizing other opioids

Last edited by Herbs&Hopes; 01-07-2011 at 12:11.
  #8  
Old 01-07-2011, 21:37
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Your "wild guess" sounds interesting, unfortunately I don't have the knowledge to address that matter. Perhaps someone else in this sub-forum might speak to this?

Quite a few doctors seem to have that attitude! They are like "I'm the doctor, you're the sicko, shut up and do as I say" I am lucky in that respect, I told my doctor about this site and getting a lot of my info here, and she is genuinely interested and willing to have a good dialog with me. Now if I could get her to become a member!

I have never tried Kratom or potentiating with grapefruit juice, but maybe I'll have to give that a shot!
  #9  
Old 03-07-2011, 22:26
Herbs&Hopes Herbs&Hopes is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

One thing is for sure, im having a bitch of a time getting my tolerance to reset, I need to take a break, but I have legit pain that I need to cover just to move around through the day and sleep at night, and to eat. That is the pain from the injury, not to mention the mild to moderate withdrawals I get since being on fentanyl for two months. That was a massive mistake. I would say fentanyl should be a last resort narcotic for most patients as im likely not the only one who it decreases efficacy of lesser narcotics for.
  #10  
Old 08-07-2011, 00:15
double-d double-d is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Yes it does big time as i have ben on the patch for @4 years now and am stuck with it as nothing else even comes close to working any longer for me and have tried about everything out there a pharmacy has to offer with little to no luck at all.As far as the euphoria effects from opioids the only option left is higher doses of fentanyl and this will only work @ 1 time a week any sooner than that you will just waiste it as you will not feel any euphoria.
Now dont get me wrong as for pain reliefe fentanyl is the best and works great.As this is what i have to have it for pain control.

Now if you are just looking for a good opioid buzz leave the fentanyl alone as you will be disapointed as it is so strong it will probably knock you out about the time you start feeling the effects of it. And overdose is highly likely when playing with this drug.
In my opinion the best opioid buzz (high) comes from oxycodone,oxycontin as i enjoyed 2 years of eating oxycontin 80mg x 2 a day with 3 percocett for breakthrough pain a day and really enjoyed that med.But when it stopped working for controling my pain i had to move on to opana didn't care for this med to much.Then to the patch (fentanyl) with percocet 10/325 3 a day for breakthrough pain and this has worked for me the beat for pain control but my days of enjoying the euphoria from opioid pain meds. has long sence left the building.I sure do miss those days but pain control is a must for me it keeps me sane.
  #11  
Old 08-07-2011, 01:12
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by double-d View Post
Yes it does big time as i have ben on the patch for @4 years now and am stuck with it as nothing else even comes close to working any longer for me and have tried about everything out there a pharmacy has to offer with little to no luck at all.As far as the euphoria effects from opioids the only option left is higher doses of fentanyl and this will only work @ 1 time a week any sooner than that you will just waiste it as you will not feel any euphoria.
Now dont get me wrong as for pain reliefe fentanyl is the best and works great.As this is what i have to have it for pain control.

Now if you are just looking for a good opioid buzz leave the fentanyl alone as you will be disapointed as it is so strong it will probably knock you out about the time you start feeling the effects of it. And overdose is highly likely when playing with this drug.
In my opinion the best opioid buzz (high) comes from oxycodone,oxycontin as i enjoyed 2 years of eating oxycontin 80mg x 2 a day with 3 percocett for breakthrough pain a day and really enjoyed that med.But when it stopped working for controling my pain i had to move on to opana didn't care for this med to much.Then to the patch (fentanyl) with percocet 10/325 3 a day for breakthrough pain and this has worked for me the beat for pain control but my days of enjoying the euphoria from opioid pain meds. has long sence left the building.I sure do miss those days but pain control is a must for me it keeps me sane.
Why did you not like the Opana? I assume that it was Opana ER? I was on that-40 mg twice a day, and it worked really well, but my doctor bumped it up to 80 mg twice a day and the insurance didn't want to cover it because of the cost, so I moved over to fentanyl. I could have rented a 3 bedroom house for what one months worth of Opana ER at that dosage level was costing!
  #12  
Old 14-07-2011, 15:51
drumlord420 drumlord420 is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Those of you who have mentioned the histamine release associated with morphine should know that 50mg of Vistiril will not only stop much of that histamine reaction, but will also enhance the analgesic effects of morphine...Hope this helps, guys!
Good luck!
  #13  
Old 14-07-2011, 18:46
St Dismas Novitiate St Dismas Novitiate is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

It is the vasco-constriction, along with the histamine release, that caused the problem. Benadryl will work for the histamine release effects just fine (up to a certain point), but that was only half the problem.
  #14  
Old 26-08-2011, 08:59
joeysykes joeysykes is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

yes, fentanyl makes tolerance crazy high, ,, if i run out of my script a week early,, it gets retardedly pricey for me to survive without withdraws it will lower again, after 6-7 days, of normal taking of pills. you can lower your tolerance by withdrawling a bit ,, not even gettinga hurt, SWIM likes to take a 100 mg of morphine every 12 hours when the fent is out,
  #15  
Old 17-09-2011, 10:43
drugs_bunny drugs_bunny is offline
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

On the way up the narcotic pain ladder, stopped off at Fentanyl for 18 months or so and like everyone else has said it does indeed send your tolerance into the stratosphere and beyond. It was during the time my opiate team at the pain clinic were working out and experimenting (i.e they had no idea and tried everything for me!) with every narcotic they had..Strangely my then GP had no qualms at all in taking me off Oxycontin 40mg and putting me on Fentanyl 50mcg..the most potent drug available..yet the GP probably assumed it had a lot less abuse potential than Oxy..with fentanyl its not something to fuck around with. The damn patches never stuck and kept falling off as well!
  #16  
Old 27-10-2011, 22:46
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Re: Does Fentanyl increase tolerance to other opiates?

Toxinreleased- i think its because fentanyl really is that much stronger than the rest on how it works in our body. Sorry i know thats not a very sciencific answer.

I am a lot like you except i take a much higher dose of fentanyl. Before fent i was prescribed oxycontin. Now if i take four green oxy 80's it does nothing for me. I am happier being on the fentanyl and fentora anyways. Works much better for my pain.

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