UK - Don't Talk to Frank ... Frank Talks Crap

[I love shrooooms]

One of swims friends once phoned TTF and said "What should i do, ive just given my dog some LSD" :P

but anyways a big anti-drugs company spewing lies left,right and center isnt really new

[Evil GIR]

I hope you dont mind but i have edited wikipedia and updated it on frank by using some of this sites text.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRANK_%28drugs%29

[Allez]

To be honest, our critique of Frank is a lot more biased then Frank itself.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Frank says "the strongest type of cannabis (is) called sinsemilla (or 'skunk')"

Wrong again Frank, and frankly you should know better 'cos on the a-z you say that sensemilla is "bud grown in the absence of male plants and has no seeds" which is actually correct whereas skunk is generally a hybrid of different strains of Cannabis (Cannabis Indica and Cannabis Sativa ).

"Skunk" is an unfortunately generic term. While in certain circle's it may describe a hybrid, I find it really only means a strong strain.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

On to mushies where Frank once again makes a hash of things by lumping Fly Agaric (amanita muscaria)and Liberty Caps (Psylocybin) into the same category, the catch all "Magic Mushrooms".

What, from the government's point of view or even from an unbias informational one, is achieved by seperating the two? Especially given that Frank only brushs over the broader details of each drug. "Magic Mushroom", ie a mushroom eaten recreationally for it's hallucinogenic properties. Sounds right to me.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Incorrectly claiming that both types of mushrooms fall into the Class A range of illegal drugs (Fly Agaric is not covered by any legislation)

Perhaps you should read that section again.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

...it also gives the impression that these are similiar drugs of similiar strengths.

To quote from Frank: ".....fly agaric (Amanita Muscaria) is much more potent and risky to take." Seems pretty clear to me.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Again though Frank contradicts himself in a report on the recent legislation criminalising psylocibin stating "No. Fly agaric mushrooms do not contain psilocin and they are not controlled drugs."

No, that's you contradicting yourself. Re-read Frank's summaries from an unbias position and you see they are much clearer then you believe.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

"Both mushrooms can make you feel sick, tired and disoriented.
Amanita's can make you nervous, twitchy and cold."

However in the report mentioned above Frank says "these mushrooms are very poisonous."

Again, poisonous is a broad, unspecific term. Anything that can have a negative effect on the body, including triggering hallunications, is deemed poisonous. In fact, reading through the article, I don't see Frank say that anywhere. And you accuse him of fabrication.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Frank ignores the much recommended idiom of 'set and setting' when using psychedelics, the void recommends first time users read this.

He does, unfortuantely, in relation to mushrooms. He does bring it up under LSD though.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

We would also question the wisdom of even telling the kids about this stuff without at least providing a link to a mushroom identification guide, as both Fly Agaric and Psylocybin (Liberty Caps) look very similiar to some highly poisonous species. Harm reduction anyone ... not for Frank who goes on to make a similiar mistake with Tranquillisers.

Obviously you're not experienced with mushroom identification. Even with a clearly described and illustrated identification key, distinguishing between some varities of Amanita is virtually impossible for the untrained. To provide a key would be reckless in the extreme as it would give people false confidence, possible giving them that little extra guarentee they needed to go out and give it a go. Which could lead to them picking them wrong mushroom and killing themselves. Which would, in turn, lead back to the key they got off the Governments webpage.

Harm reduction..... anyone?

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Once again lumping all drugs together, even though Frank ackowledges that 'There are hundreds of different tranquillisers around' he then goes on to describe the effects of Benzodiazepines (valium, librium, temazepam etc) as if they applied to all tranquillisers.

Again, no purpose would be served my expanding on it. The guides are not specific enough to warrant it. He's a little ambigious about whether he's describing tranquilisers in general or just benzo's, but generally the effects he described do apply to all tranquillisers.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Frank ignores the less widely used, but far stronger barbiturates even though according to recovery.org.uk "Barbiturate overdose is a factor in nearly one-third of all reported drug-related deaths. These include suicides and accidental drug poisonings."

He doesn't ignore anything. He never specifies what he's describing, apart from the aforementioned ambiguiety. Which is unfortunate but hardly dangerous.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Frank then says that "Tranquillisers can only be prescribed by a pharmacist. They are controlled under Class C of the misuse of drugs act."

What you on Frank? barbiturates are a Class B drug.

Depends on the tranquilliser. Minor tranqs are Class C, stronger tranq's are Class B.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Skirting past ketamine, where Frank incorrectly states that "Legally produced ketamine comes in liquid form which is injected. The illegally produced version usually comes as a grainy white powder which is snorted or bought as a tablet."

For all entents and purposes, he's correct. If the ketamine is in liquid form then it's reasonable to presume it's pure. If it's a powder, even if it started life as a liquid, then it's been "illegally produced" (maybe converted or cooked would have been a better word choice), and could easily have been cut. No medicinal ketamine comes as a powder. Again, ambigious, but not false, and bias more towards health and safety. It's the government, it's to be expected.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

and even illegally produced ketamine will come as a liquid form if you by in bulk, it's then 'cooked' down to the powder for ease of use and supply.

If your buying ketamine in bulk then Frank ain't going to make much of a difference. They're ambigious in their word choice for the aforementioned reasons.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Perhaps we're nitpicking, but Frank excels when it comes to opiates. Ignoring the fact that street opium is becoming more and more popular, Frank chooses not to supply any info, instead concentrating on it's more insiduous cousin heroin. Go to the link for opium in his A-Z and you'll be taken straight to a page on heroin.

Again, it's unfortunate on his part. But looking at the format of the site as a whole, he brushes over types of drugs rather then specific one's (the aforementioned tranquillisers and mushrooms). While this would suggest the opium page should link to a summary of opiates in general, I personally don't believe street opium is a big enough problem to justify subjugating heroin like that.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

However look what he says about the risks of methadone use

"With high doses the sedation takes over and users feel sleepy. Too much and you can fall into a coma or stop breathing completely."

and that's it in terms of the dangers of methadone overdose. In 2003 Methdone was directly responsible for 83 deaths and was a factor in a further 264. With total deaths from opiates running at about a thousand a year, one would of thought that with a significant percentage involving methadone then Frank would be only too keen to hammer home the risks.

When describing the dangers of heroin, Frank describes different ways heroin use can kill. Without the need for needles and the like, there are less way's methadone can kill.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

But oh no, not Frank, wouldn't do to upset the drug companies after all would it.

Don't be silly.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

On crack Frank talks of physical dependance (unproven)

But probable. Likely enough to mention in a government funded anti-drugs website.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

..... and when it comes to ectasy spouts guff like:

"E's can contain toxic other chemicals like MPTP, a drug known to cause irreversible Parkinson's disease. It's highly unlikely that many E's have MPTP in them. But the point is that taking E is a gamble."

whatever you say Frank...

What's wrong with that statement?

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Finally it seems that's Frank pretty choosy about what gets to be listed in his A-Z, including relatively hard to find (sadly) drugs like PMA, 2CB and 2-CT-7, but ignores the far more commonly used DOB, DMT, salvia, peyote and mescalin (type any of these drugs into Frank's search engine and it just ignores you).

Salvia, peyote and mescaline are available in my local headshops. DMT is, from my limited experience, which I admit is pretty meaningless, rare enough.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

Coming on like a bumbling middle aged vicar Frank advises the yoof to ... Get More Exercise ... Eat Better ... and Listen to More Music. Well done Frank for that helpful advice, according to Frank 'One third (of young people questioned) said they get their best high from doing well at college or work' with a paltry 3% claiming that drugs gave them the best buzz.

You do get a natural high from those activities. Perhaps it's a little ambitious comparing it to illegal drugs, but it's still completely true.

The poll seems a little off. No doubt it was twisted a little to give suitable results, but that's to be expected. Kids don't know what their talking about anyway. Ever see an internet poll on the legalisation of marijuana? Or sometimes even all drugs?

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

the void applauds any attempt to provide drugs information to young people in a way they can understand. However with recent figures showing that despite massively increased government spending drug related deaths remain as high as ever the wisdom of current government strategy has to be called into question.

I'll save you my opinion on modern social trends, but I still believe this is to be expected. I think it should be commended that the government keep drug use in check as they do.

Originally Posted by johnnyvoid

And frankly, publishing inaccurate and misleading information on government backed websites is foolhardy and ignorant on one level ...

... and downright irresponsible on another, with mistakes on the site that could conceivably lead to fatalities.

I think not.


This may not be much less bias then the thread in general, but to scrutinise both sides of an arguement with AN OPEN MIND givs you a better picture then rooting through a site looking for slight ambiguities.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Allez

What, from the government's point of view or even from an unbias informational one, is achieved by seperating the two? Especially given that Frank only brushs over the broader details of each drug. "Magic Mushroom", ie a mushroom eaten recreationally for it's hallucinogenic properties. Sounds right to me.

The Fly Agaric mushroom and the psilocybin/psilocin-containing magic mushroom are entirely different with two complete different spectrums of hallucinogenic and physiological effects. One contains toxins, the other doesn't. To define them as the same is irresponsible because it may lead to confusion.

Originally Posted by Allez

Obviously you're not experienced with mushroom identification. Even with a clearly described and illustrated identification key, distinguishing between some varities of Amanita is virtually impossible for the untrained. To provide a key would be reckless in the extreme as it would give people false confidence, possible giving them that little extra guarentee they needed to go out and give it a go. Which could lead to them picking them wrong mushroom and killing themselves. Which would, in turn, lead back to the key they got off the Governments webpage.

Harm reduction..... anyone?

Amanita varieties of mushroom are responsible for nearly all fatal poisonings related to mushrooms - no-one should even attempt to pick them without knowing what they are doing and it's certainly something that doesn't even need to be addressed by Frank. The Liberty Cap however, does not have any poisonous lookalikes on the British Isles. There are few, if any, cases of people dying due to their misidentification. The government has often used this excuse in their case against magic mushroom use which is simply spinning the facts.

[Allez]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

The Fly Agaric mushroom and the psilocybin/psilocin-containing magic mushroom are entirely different with two complete different spectrums of hallucinogenic and physiological effects. One contains toxins, the other doesn't. To define them as the same is irresponsible because it may lead to confusion.

The government regards both as poisonous, for me previously mentioned reasons, or at least leads the public to believe so, to discourage experimentation.

...and it's certainly something that doesn't even need to be addressed by Frank.

That some mushrooms that look quite similar to recreationally used hallucinogenic mushrooms is something that doesn't need to be adressed be Frnak? How so?

The Liberty Cap however, does not have any poisonous lookalikes on the British Isles. There are few, if any, cases of people dying due to their misidentification. The government has often used this excuse in their case against magic mushroom use which is simply spinning the facts.

http://www.mushroomjohn.com/lookalikes1.htm

Don't apply guesswork when dealing with what could be people's lives.

[Nature Boy]

Originally Posted by Allez

The government regards both as poisonous, for me previously mentioned reasons, or at least leads the public to believe so, to discourage experimentation.

That's not their jurisdiction. Experimentation shouldn't be discouraged because experimenters will do what they want to do anyway. They need the real facts. No finger wagging.

Originally Posted by Allez

That some mushrooms that look quite similar to recreationally used hallucinogenic mushrooms is something that doesn't need to be adressed be Frnak? How so?

Amanita forms of hallucinogenic mushrooms are relatively unknown to the public. Frank spouting out bullshit about them won't help anyone because it will only lead to confusion over the more commonly, if not exclusively, -used psychedelic mushroom.

That link didn't provide images on any one mushroom that looks anything like a Liberty Cap to someone who's seen one in his own hand before. Enough of the spinning please.

[Allez]

Originally Posted by Nature Boy

That's not their jurisdiction. Experimentation shouldn't be discouraged because experimenters will do what they want to do anyway. They need the real facts. No finger wagging.

It's an anti-drugs website that shouldn't discourage experimentation?

Amanita forms of hallucinogenic mushrooms are relatively unknown to the public. Frank spouting out bullshit about them won't help anyone because it will only lead to confusion over the more commonly, if not exclusively, -used psychedelic mushroom.

So we shouldn't educate the public about them? At least your consistent.

That link didn't provide images on any one mushroom that looks anything like a Liberty Cap to someone who's seen one in his own hand before. Enough of the spinning please.

Most people I know who go mushroom picking do it as soon as the season starts. Young death caps look pretty similar young liberty caps. Even when grown, people can get over excited.

[Evil GIR]

all i am saying

Reputation Comments on this post:

lol ..funny

[Allez]

Wow, good arguement. Listen to a government run anti-drugs website, and you could die. End of arguement.

Then try to make it sound final and true by finishing with "All I am saying".

Here's an idea, post something relevant.

Reputation Comments on this post:

wow you're a dick

[Evil GIR]

I just though it was funny, thats all.


You see at the moment the goverment has decided to promote the dangers of cannabis by saying it will make you puke and lose your mind so when people actually smoke cannabis they will realise this is all BS. (go see there brain advert)

Now because of this some people may think that governments info on crack is just BS, how can they not when they lied about cannabis, so with the goverment lieing about drugs and not really giving true honest information like they advertise they are actually putting people in dangerous because of there mis-information.

anyway do you work for them or something, you seem very defensive about them.

[Nagognog2]

Talk to Frank? Let's cut out the middle-man. Lobotomies For Everyone!

Reputation Comments on this post:

id prefer a bottle in front of me then a frontal lobotamy!

[Allez]

No, I think Frank is useless (but not dangerous). None the less, a balanced arguement has two sides so I'll fight for Frank to the death.

[Allez]

(That to dib by the way. When the hell can I edit my posts?).

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by Allez

(That to dib by the way. When the hell can I edit my posts?).

A simple search will reveal that one must attain silver membership status in order to edit posts. One must receive a few positive reputation points to become silver. That is, you need to get that little red reputation box you have to turn green and you can edit.

[Nagognog2]

Originally Posted by Allez

(That to dib by the way. When the hell can I edit my posts?).

See the little red square on the upper right on your posts? Yes? When you get enough positive (green square) reputation points - you will be promoted to silver. Then you can edit your own posts. Until then you can get on your knees, take up self-flagellation, and pray to Frank for help (you should live so long).

Or you can grovel to a moderator to do it. But we don't like Frank too much. Can't trust us.

[Allez]

No skin off my back. It just mean your boards will look childish and unprofessional with so many needless double posts.

And I'll look like someone trying to up my post count, which will make you look worse for not doing anything about it.

Doesn't that whole system promote lick-ass grovelling, and discourage having a unique opinion or disagreeing with someone elses?

[bewilderment]

Originally Posted by Allez

Doesn't that whole system promote lick-ass grovelling, and discourage having a unique opinion or disagreeing with someone elses?

Many things which may be shared are not opinion-based. Thus, if you disagree with many here then you may not get the "reputation" which allows you to move up in membership status. However, if you provide information in other threads on the board which are not opinion-oriented then people will eventually begin to leave positive rep points for the information provided. You could even end up getting some points in opinion-oriented threads even if you do happen to disagree with most if you brought in some facts and data which counters the popular arguments found here.

And, upping your post count will do nothing to help advance you to the point where you can edit unless you are providing quality posts which stick out from the rest in any particular thread.

There are reasons why people can't edit before reaching silver membership status and some of them have to do with trying to make the board tidier.

Good luck.

[Nature Boy]

• Stay on topic 'unique opinion'.

[Abrad]

http://www.talktofrank.com/article.aspx?id=1624

[Alfa]

Oh god no.

[Nagognog2]

Quick! Link Frank to Totsie!!

[grandbaby]

Sweet Jesus, I can only imagine the fun to be had with this. Somebody start a thread in "Funny Shit" quick, before endless FrankBOT transcripts start cluttering up the serious threads!

[Nagognog2]

The Frank-Prank.

[Bajeda]

Since 'Frank' isn't a real person could they prosecute swim for putting a .45 to Frank's head and pulling the trigger?

[Nagognog2]

That would make a nice freebie online-game! With a bit of re-working - something like this:

http://www.quailhuntingschool.com/flash.php

Instead of a shotgun: A blowgun full of ???. Work on it! LOL!

A young lady I knew brought her toddler over to my house one evening. The little girl LOVED my Nun-Puppet. It is a Nun that has boxing-gloves and throws punches if you push the right levers inside.

The little girl asked "What's it name?" I told her :Butthead!"

I got a semi-complaint a month later: Her little girl saw some Nuns on the sidewalk - and she started pointing at them shouting: "Butthead! Butthead!"

I nearly died laughing.

See what could be done to 'Frank' if he were popularized as an insipidly stupid internet game?