The nature of hallucinogens

[Alfa]

If you look at natural hallucinogens, you will find that practicly all of them have their spiritual place in endiginous culture. They use these substances for communication with their ancesters, curing illnesses, divination (finding answers).
So if every culture that has found use for these substances over thousands of years, found a spiritual use for them, instead of recreational, doesn't that say something about hallucinogens?

[Nature Boy]

Yes. It suggests that within the social acceptance of (some) religions, natural hallucinogens would become considered spiritual substances used in order to understand your religion better, become at one with gods, reach enlightenment etc.

Unfortunately this doesn't cover my ass. I'm non-religious. Natural hallucinogens will only ever be of recreational value for me. Not that there's anything wrong with that in my mind. I believe all people should have the right to experiment with hallucinogens whether it be for thinking you understand the meaning of life to an entertaining night of fun to enjoying watching walls melt.

[hazeinmybong2]

You don't have to be religious to be spiritual. I take halucinagens as a sort of sacrement for my soul. When I eat mushrooms, my friends are shrooming, I am comtemplating the nature of the universe and social interaction. Maybe I have seen The Doors movie too many times?

[fatmanstan]

I completely agree, Haze. In my mind, the two word, spiritual and religious, are definitely not synonyms, not really even related. Organized religion is the cause of more human misery, death, war, destruction than anything else in history, in my opinion. Look at what the early crusaders did to the aztecs and mayans. My god, how much farther along would we be as a civilization if those early christian dicks hadn't destroyed the entire written history of one of the most advanced societies on the planet. I have strong issues with almost all religions. I would like to think that they all (most) started with good intentions based on decency and morality, but leave it to good old greed and corruption to fuck things up.

One of my favorite Simpsons scenes is when Bart and Milhouse are cleaning the church and talking about the soul. "why would anyone make something like that up?" asks Milhouse. The shot goes to rev. Lovejoy running the collection money through a bill counter saying "I don't hear cleaning" or something like that.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great post

[djama]

I dont think there is a need to emphasise the connection between established religions and spirituality too much however I think there is something of value there. By making drug taking 'sacred' they made it part of the culture - they controlled 'setting' through ritual and importantly they controlled frequency of use. Such drugs were only used for special ceremonies like initiation or at specific celebrations during the year.

Taking these practices out of these contexts has allowed a no-holds-barred attitude to the drugs which would be fine except that they do seem to have some down sides if taken too often or in the wrong setting. I have been around a while and have seen many 'bad trips' and I have, unfortunately, seen several people I love fry their brains with overuse. Sure you dont need religion to apply restraint but you do need something.

OFF TOPIC: Hey can we please have [cut] [paste] and [copy] buttons - I dont get these options when I 'right-click' at this site and this does not happen on any other forum I subscribe to. Thanks.

[xx3]

Drugs have intricate relation in every religious system.
Even in cristianity, there is wine - an important sacrament.

Or, if we turn the issue arrund: name the drug and then tell the religion.
I'm cofident we could list and associate almost all known psychoactives - except maybe the new ones, like amphetamines, etc.
Even LSD was, or still is, sacred for small groups of followers. We can make one conclusion sure: spirituality, religiosity,
psychonautica and etc, are natural, connected, and built in our DNA.

On the subject of religions: With the growth of society, the religious system
becomes inevitably an authoritative and political institution. But everywhere
man goes and everything he does, religion goes with him. Be it when building peace and prosperity or
making war and bringing misery. So, for that kick, Dick gave us in da face, should we blame the man, or his religion?

I myself am not religious. But see that for those who are, good for them.
Because it comes time in life, when one has nothing left. Nothing so firm to hold when drifting into void -
appart faith, religion - who has the fortune to have it.

[Nagognog2]

"OFF TOPIC: Hey can we please have [cut] [paste] and [copy] buttons - I dont get these options when I 'right-click' at this site and this does not happen on any other forum I subscribe to. Thanks."

If you highlight the text you wish to copy before right clicking same - you should have the Copy function in the drop-down menu. Ditto for Paste if you first click on the message box you plan to write in.

[djama]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

"OFF TOPIC: Hey can we please have [cut] [paste] and [copy] buttons - I dont get these options when I 'right-click' at this site and this does not happen on any other forum I subscribe to. Thanks."

If you highlight the text you wish to copy before right clicking same - you should have the Copy function in the drop-down menu. Ditto for Paste if you first click on the message box you plan to write in.

Yeah, I know I should and this is what happens at all other forums and they give me 'cut' option too but not this one and I have tried it in Firefox and Explorer - the control + keys do however work it has just been so long since I used them - thanks.

[Montgolfier]

CTRL 'C' -> copy

CTRL 'V' - > paste

[xtc_stoner]

I agree I think if religous people want to get closer to some form of high bieng what better way to do it then with hallucinogens.. I think thats why it was used amoung people before the government changed that... I tihink it helps us understand why are we here whats our purpose?

Like LSD I think it has great potential in healing mental problems although it could probaly helps some problems come to the surface...

[djama]

Originally Posted by Alfa

If you look at natural hallucinogens, you will find that practicly all of them have their spiritual place in endiginous culture... instead of recreational, doesn't that say something about hallucinogens?

Maybe, maybe it says something about indigenous cultures. Perhaps they didnt separate spiritual and recreational the way we do - a lot of cultures lack the kinds of intellectual demarcations that are so prevalent in the Modern Western mindset.

Also maybe one reason why a lot of people now find the experience so secular is because they have been subject to such bad experience in the name or religion that good experiences have no relation to religion for them.

[fatal]

Hallucinogens are deeply important to SWIM in a religious sense. they have brought him great understanding and peace of mind. it is obvious that either they are of spiritual significance(at least some) then they definitely can find their way to effecting the part of the brain that deal with religious experiences which would make them subjectively religious due to the fact that this would imply the religious experience as a concept is just a chemical reaction anyways. therefore by my reasoning hallucinogens are just as realistically religious as praying or going to church. it seems logical.