Trouble with Twisted; 'herbal' high psychedelic.

[Urban]

After craving acid and not being able to get hold of any, swim turned to “herbal highs” this one looked good she thought so she bought it.


NAME: Twisted (Psychedelic Funk)
CONTAINS: Piperazine blend 90mg (45mg BZP, 45mg Other), Amino Acid blend, Ginseng extract, Citrus bioflavonoid, Minerals, Vitamins, Capsulating agents. Note: CONTAINS PHENYLALANINE.

Swim found these on an internet site that she had ordered some good salvia from before.
Here’s the trip report…


*she took 2pills at 10.35pm and had not consumed any other drugs within 48 hours.
*within 15 mins, she felt very ill indeed. she was sweating a cold sweat and felt very faint.
*swim lay down because she thought she was going to pass out and on lying down, she was sick.
*swim felt slightly better after this but not 100%.
*she sat up and felt the urge to walk around clicking her tongue and making strange noises, jumping when she saw her shadow or walked past the windows.
*swim spent a lot of time looking in a mirror asking herself questions and ended up crying
*she felt totally out of control, but in a bad way, hugging walls and lying on the floor shaking.
*after about 1hour, swim lay in bed and started shaking uncontrollably.
*swim decided to smoke some grass to help her calm down.
*after smoking a bowl of grass, swim fell asleep
*swim woke up the next morning with the worst headache she had ever had and was unable to move from bed all day.
*she could not even think of food, drink or drugs without feeling rough.

swim was not at all unwell before trying the drug and has never had any problems with any other drug at all!
This “high” was not like any other and the uncontrollable feeling was so different to any other.

Swim has not tried this drug again for fear of having a similar effect which was not pleasant.
Has anyone swiy had and experiences with this drug….???

does anyone recognise the ingredients...?

If so was it bad… good?
x

Reputation Comments on this post:

good report

[Abrad]

These are not "herbal highs", the active ingredients are piperizines which are basically RCs. Alot of people find their effects unpleasent. Headshops marketing this stuff as a herbal high makes SWIM very angry.

[Urban]

SERIOUSLY!!!!!

swim should have checked it out before tryin it

swim guesses when you are not scared of taking lines or coke or dropping E's, you think its all going to be fun......

so.... they wer RC's????
x

[Pinkavvy]

yes grrr, do some research it's discussed in plenty of threads here.

[Pinkavvy]

you will not find any product that is similar to lsd other than lsd. there are plenty of rc's available that are better hulucinagins then acid according to some people (though IMO nothing beats LSD.)

Please don't let your piperzine experience give you a bad impression of "RC's" ... there are many research chemicals (rc's) that are very good and very visual and upbeat.
Look into 2c-e and DOC ... they are two of the most popular for visuals.

[Abrad]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

you will not find any product that is similar to lsd other than lsd. there are plenty of rc's available that are better hulucinagins then acid according to some people (though IMO nothing beats LSD.)

Please don't let your piperzine experience give you a bad impression of "RC's" ... there are many research chemicals (rc's) that are very good and very visual and upbeat.
Look into 2c-e and DOC ... they are two of the most popular for visuals.

Yes look into DOC in particular, many people descibe it as being very like LSD but it lasts longer. SWIM has not tried it yet and is waiting for the right time but really looking forward to trying this one.

[Alfa]

Most piperazine blends contain BZP with TFMPP. I've searched the net for Twisted and could not find the other ingredient. What I did find is P.E.P. Twisted, a UK product, which is imported from New Zealand. The ingredients listed are quiet simular: a 90mg piperazine blend of BZP's + TFMPP. There's also some added amino acids , Vit B1, B5, B6, Citrus Aurantium and Calcium Ascorbate.
Chances are that this is the same product. But if TFMPP is the other ingredient, I can't see why this would be a psychedelic. Your experience doesn't include psychedelic symptoms either. Please check out the BZP TFMPP combination threads. You'll find more info there.
I would not try it again, since you've had an adverse reaction already. Move on. Lot's of fun stuf in the world. And this is certainly not it.
Please let us know if you have experienced any more after effects.

[Thirdedge]

I have tried Twisted and found it a pleasant but mild psychedelic indeed, comparable to a mild dose lsd, like the trips that appeared in the late 1990,s.
Speedy, with colourfull closed eye visuals, and seeing things move out the corner of my eye.

Twisted contains 45mg bzp, and a 45mg piperazine blend which is definatly not just tfmpp, theres something else in there that makes it distinctly diffrent from the other BZP / TFMPP blends. My guess is Flipiperazine.

[Urban]

Originally Posted by thirdedge

I have tried Twisted and found it a pleasant but mild psychedelic indeed, comparable to a mild dose lsd, like the trips that appeared in the late 1990,s.
Speedy, with colourfull closed eye visuals, and seeing things move out the corner of my eye.

Twisted contains 45mg bzp, and a 45mg piperazine blend which is definatly not just tfmpp, theres something else in there that makes it distinctly diffrent from the other BZP / TFMPP blends. My guess is Flipiperazine.

did you do anything differently to what swim did?...... the effects you described were the ones swim wanted.......... swim wants to try it again but is not really up for the shit she got last time!
any ideas?????????
x

[dr ACE]

[quote=Alfa]. Please check out the BZP TFMPP combination threads. You'll find more info there.
I would not try it again, since you've had an adverse reaction already. Move on. Lot's of fun stuf in the world. And this is certainly not it.
quote] well said alfa, i have'nt tried any piperazines but they sure sound very unpleasant & unrewarding

[Thirdedge]

While generally not as nice as PEAs or Tryptamines, Piperazines can be nice if you get the right blend. The idea is not to over do it.

The best energy(not empathy) pill I have tried is Torque. It uses a herbal formula like a herbal e and adds a little BZP for an extra kick. It is very clean and has no comedown, even when mixed with alcohol.

A new Piperazine mix pill called 'Enjoi - e' is the smoothest and closest to real MDMA for sure. So smooth infact that I am suspicious it may contain Methylone or similar??? This product is a major advance over all the other piperazine bleds, that I,ve tried anyway. The BZP is definetly there though, but theres something at play too.

[androoo]

i think piperazines are fairly safe.. there has been one reported death from them, which was caused by drinking too much water i think..obviously taking stimulants when you have a heart conditions or any other problems is gonna cause problems.. also drinking alcohol is a major no no!! will result in killer headaches! i and alot of my freinds who have got bored or can not take e/speed anymore are very happy with these replacement products..

these are not research chemicals either!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Spreading Disinformation.

[Abrad]

Originally Posted by androoo

these are not research chemicals either!

Yes they are, and you shouldn't assume they are safe because only one death has been attributed to them. Their long term effects are not known and for all we know they could cause any number of problems in years to come.

[enquirewithin]

If you look in Erowid, a lot of people have have unpleasant toxic experiences with piperazines. Perhaps that's why they remain legal in most countries-- you can't get addicted to something that unpleasant.

[Alicia]

Urban, about the only suitable piperine pills in the uk, that work are the normal P.E.P They have different types, but boyo did'nt like the pep twisted as they are bad, but the normal Pep pills in the yellow container, contain a similer mix only. That those ones are the only ones worth doing which has a similer effect to mdma - and amphetamines no sickness , just happy rushes with contentment

[Abrad]

These things are getting very popular and people seem to think they're safe. I'm argruing with a guy on another forum who is convinced that these are safe because they're legal and "you don't get as bad a comedown as from E".

[Nagognog2]

Safe because they are legal, eh? That old chestnut. You could always point out that rat poison is also legal and available. Or there is always alcohol - with tens of thousands dying each year from liver disease and cancer related to drinking this legal drug.

Or you can just sit back with a bucket of popcorn and wait for him to go off to a nice rehab somewhere along the coast and learn to weave backets - with his brain shorted-out from "safely" gobbling these legal chemicals "safely" everyday for a few months...

[a-SalviaLover]

Well every person reacts differently to each substance. I doubt that you'll get sth different from eating more from those. You probably just don't react good to piperazines. Lots of people don't. If you think you can bear what happened to you before, you might try them again. There is a pssibility that you have to take it several times to achieve the positive effects. Many people report this on different drugs (weed, heroin, cocaine etc.)

[Thirdedge]

I have noticed diffrent effects from the same Piperazine pills on diffrent occasions leading me to belive one of the following factors:

1) Inconstant manufacturing . . . "opps an extra slurp of Meopp there, oh well, better not tell the boss". I recomend taking tablets over capsules to minimise this.

2) Interaction with other things in the body, eg: vitamins, minerals, aminos, foods, alcohol, weed, other drugs etc.

3) How one feels at time of taking, not just mood at time but how healthy one is. They seem to be far nastier when one has been binging a bit, eating shitty food etc.

I recomend preloading with a bananna and glass of ribena for a smoother ride. Avoid alcohol, have a light healthy meal about 2 hrs before taking pills, constantly hydrate throughout trip.

[Cuberun]

SWIM has had a similar time with bzp/tfmpp mixes such as kandi, not as bad but still nothing really pleasurable.
My guess is that it's more of a tfmpp oriented mix which did play tricks on SWIMS vision.

Odd this is that swim has had a nice enough time on a bzp alone and it seems that tfmpp is just.. bad. Of course swim would rather be taking e/speed but bzp (without tfmpp) is ok if there's no supply. avoid tfmpp however. As someone mentioned the PEP normal pills are the only ones worth trying, SWIM has not tried either of the PEP pills but then swim can only assume that "normal" has less tfmpp or none. It's easy to figure out that they'd but the more mindfuck piperazine in(tfmpp) and call it twisted.

[Mona Lisa]

SWIM tried one from the pair of capsules that came with the p.e.p. 'twisted' party pills; around 45 minutes later, SWIM took one of the two capsules of p.e.p. 'love' variety. SWIM felt more energetic (say ++) than baseline, music was slightly enhanced. The 'twisted' pill gave SWIM a bit of a stomachache but the was no more discomfort after the 'love' pill was taken. SWIM doesn't know what's exactly in these. A combination of piperazines but don't know if it's approximately 45mg BZP and 45mg TMFPP per capsule or per PAIR of capsules. There was definitely an effect which was pleasant but SWIM found the experience milder than from taking the two p.e.p. capsules that came in the yellow container. SWIM was tempted to take another pair but also knew it would mean no sleep or appetite for supper... SWIM's recommendation for Londoners is to stick with the straightforward p.e.p. 'flavour' as music and emotion more enhanced on them... They're certainly not the REAL THING but they're good if you want something to pick you up a bit for a night out without breaking the law (at least in England at the PRESENT TIME). They're also good for working out or dancing on. They keep SWIM clear-headed. You'll have no appetited but coffee was apparently quite nice to drink, as the flavour was nice; fruit is OK too. Curry -- forget it! SWIM has learned, though, that there will be comedown tomorrow, but not as bad as from E, and certainly not as harsh as from drinking too much!! They're overpriced if bought in the shops but if ordered over the net, SWIM feels that they're worth what is normally charged.

[Abrad]

Originally Posted by Mona Lisa

They're overpriced if bought in the shops but if ordered over the net, SWIM feels that they're worth what is normally charged.

If only you knew the price the manufacturers paid for their ingredients you would realise the meaning of overcharged. These things are really pissing me off now, there are people on another forum saying it is safe to take 6 at a time "because it says do not take more than 6 in 24 hours, so it must be safe to take 6 together and anyway when I have a headache I take twice the recommended dose of medicine and I'm still alive". idiots + powerful chemicals = disaster.

[Mona Lisa]

I agree that these substances, though legal where I live, still need to be treated with respect especially as it only takes for a couple idiots to take too much and end up in the hospital, etc. hold of such a story and for things to esculate; I only think it's a matter of time before these party pills are inevitably banned as they already have been in Australia and America (at least the BZP which the main active ingredient).

The P.E.P. version now has an updated 'improved' formala which SWIM hasn't yet tried; but SWIM wouldn't be surprised if they have had to dilute them slightly to help such a tragic event happening. Unfortunately people can't always be sensible and listen to the directions on the package! Certainly four in an evening would definitely be pushing it in SWIM's opinion. As it says, no more than three (which I take to mean three capsules, not three pairs of capsules).

SWIM told me that their residual effects last a long time, even longer than MDMA; consequently, one has to plan accordingly, especially if he or she has to work the next day. Even after the main effects have worn off, SWIM has explained that they can make it impossible to sleep (which might be useful if you've got an essay to write with a tight deadline), so they're sort of like 'speed' in that sense.

SWIM doesn't know if one would quickly develop a tolerance to them or not. ALso SWIM has mentioned to me that if it's cold outside, that one will definitely feel chilled and notice the cold more than normal. Also believe the Love variety are smoother than the Twisted variety, which can produce a stomach ache from what SWIM told me.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Well said

[Abrad]

Well at least you know what you're taking and are taking the correct dose. But there are many who will try these< expect them to not work, so take 2packets.
They take the pills and by the time they realise they took waaaayyyyy too much its too late. This is why RCs should never be marketed like this.

[Mona Lisa]

Abra, you're probably right, especially as they (Piperazines) allegedly take a long time before their onset, ie. a couple hours or more. But it's hard to know how these substances will be marketed differently since they're marked up so much.

I believe we are enjoying a brief period of relative freedom both in terms of sharing information (such as on these forums) and of partaking in substances whose legal status is ambivalent at best. Hopefully America in particular will see sense and realise (as Walter Cronkite as sensibly argued) that the war on drugs is a failure. This 'war' has taken away so many inherent freedoms such as presumed innocence until proved guilty (not how the DEA deals with suspects); drug testing which in my view is a gross invasion of individuals' privacy; etc. etc. It's hypocracy with a capital H!

Nevertheless, within another two or three years, we will probably have to cope with a much more tightly controlled internet (think Google's adapted search engine for China), whereby it will become more and more difficult to order Research chemicals and questionable drugs that normally require an official prescription. I could even see more and more people being busted for mere admission of admitting to past partaking of illegal substances (or substances that subsequently are made illegal). This is why I strongly agree with Alfa that we need to be very careful in how we explain various episodes in our careers so as not to inadvertently incriminate ourselves or others...