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  #1  
Old 25-04-2011, 14:56
eggs eggs is offline
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chewing Op's

sorry if this has already been discussed (ran a search but didn't notice any results)

anywho, from everything read on other sites, chewing op's supposedly doesn't do anything as far as breaking the time release and that " even if someone tries to crush or chew them, they still retain their time released properties. "

don't see how this is possible?

wouldn't chewing it up logically give it more surface area in your digestive tract to be absorbed faster or something (if that is even how it works?) and at least destroy a bit of the time release.

my friend chews them all the time, and maybe it's just placebo but he swears that chewing works better, though everything he's read says that's all in his head apparently.

can anyone find any accurate reports or studies to either confirm or deny the effectiveness of chewing compared to swallowing whole?
  #2  
Old 25-04-2011, 16:43
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Without going and doing the research so I can give you a verifiable, rock-solid answer, I will at least offer a little information to help you understand one way drug makers are able to defeat quick bio-availability of a drug.
Drugs can easily be combined with enteric coatings or fillers. They are designed to not dissolve in the high acid (low PH) environment of the mouth or stomach, but to dissolve in the higher PH environment of the intestine.
Of course, they are using a combination of technologies to insure timed release, but trust me...... chewing them is not likely to help much.
That being said, I would probably chew them myself. It may not help much, but at least you made the effort, right?
  #3  
Old 25-04-2011, 18:38
VirtuallyEmotionless VirtuallyEmotionless is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balzafire View Post
Without going and doing the research so I can give you a verifiable, rock-solid answer, I will at least offer a little information to help you understand one way drug makers are able to defeat quick bio-availability of a drug.
Drugs can easily be combined with enteric coatings or fillers. They are designed to not dissolve in the high acid (low PH) environment of the mouth or stomach, but to dissolve in the higher PH environment of the intestine.
Of course, they are using a combination of technologies to insure timed release, but trust me...... chewing them is not likely to help much.
That being said, I would probably chew them myself. It may not help much, but at least you made the effort, right?
Balzafire is dead on with that. Cheshire Cat knows that adderall works like that.

As far as I know, it's specifically adderall, NOT straight amphetamine.

It either has something to do with the different amphetamine salts working at different parts of the digestion exactly as Balzafire stated. Maybe it's not specific to them amphetamine salts, but rather the way they're manufactured.

Either way, the four different amphetamine salts in adderall act at different stages of digestion.

Without doing any research and basing this on Balzafire's post as well as personal accounts passed from friends to Cheshire Cat. Supposedly putting the OP's in a shot glass of lemon juice negates the time release. It makes sense considering lemon juice's ph is different than someones stomach ph. ie: the lemon juice dissolves some of the oxycodone, and the stomach further dissolves and digests the oxycodone once ingested.

I can't say for sure that the lemon juice works, as I'm definitely not one to trust the "word on the streets". I've heard more than enough nonsense to realize that most drug users really have no clue what they're talking about, and that common street knowledge is usually wrong.

That may just be me though, cause I know for sure that if I only hung around D-F members in real life, then the "word on the street" would probably be much more factual.
  #4  
Old 25-04-2011, 19:01
eggs eggs is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

but chewing up those little adderall balls also seems to make them work faster.. you can also crush them into a powder and sniff them, which definitely works, so i dont see how that would relate to different parts of the digestive tract.

sorry dont mean to argue, just trying to fully wrap my ahead around how exactly the time release in these things works.

when you chew them up it turns into that stick gum in your mouth, which clearly works brilliantly against people who try to sniff them, but it just seems like swallowing a chewed up pill would logically help it to digest faster than if the pill were fully intact?
  #5  
Old 25-04-2011, 19:12
kingsblend420 kingsblend420 is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

These "OP's" have been out for about a year...You can't tell me someone hasn't figured it out yet?
  #6  
Old 25-04-2011, 19:46
VirtuallyEmotionless VirtuallyEmotionless is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggs View Post
but chewing up those little adderall balls also seems to make them work faster.. you can also crush them into a powder and sniff them, which definitely works, so i dont see how that would relate to different parts of the digestive tract.

sorry dont mean to argue, just trying to fully wrap my ahead around how exactly the time release in these things works.

when you chew them up it turns into that stick gum in your mouth, which clearly works brilliantly against people who try to sniff them, but it just seems like swallowing a chewed up pill would logically help it to digest faster than if the pill were fully intact?
The time release does in fact work the way I stated with Adderall ( mixed amphetamine salts ). The XR Adderall proabably has another method to control the release of the amphetamine. The non XR's actually work as a time release, with some of the medicine digesting in the stomach, but other parts of the medicine digesting in the intestines.

I was only using it as an example, which considering the content of the thread, was valid. If you want to know more about the metabolism of Adderall, you can go to the Adderall sub-forum which can be found here.

But please, let's not steer off-topic anymore than this already has. This thread is about the oxycodone OP's, and again, I was only using Adderall as an example. Thanks.
  #7  
Old 25-04-2011, 20:52
eggs eggs is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

i have to say, that was not helpful.
  #8  
Old 25-04-2011, 20:59
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggs View Post
i have to say, that was not helpful.

Try doing a google search on "enteric capsules". This should help you sort it out.
Many companies use an enteric coating on the capsules themselves, but some (or all) of the little beads inside the capsules can be coated as well. They are often just coated actives themselves.
  #9  
Old 25-04-2011, 21:41
eggs eggs is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balzafire View Post
Try doing a google search on "enteric capsules". This should help you sort it out.
Many companies use an enteric coating on the capsules themselves, but some (or all) of the little beads inside the capsules can be coated as well. They are often just coated actives themselves.
and the op's have this?
  #10  
Old 25-04-2011, 21:47
VirtuallyEmotionless VirtuallyEmotionless is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggs View Post
i have to say, that was not helpful.
Are you kidding? My mistake, I won't bother to try and help you anymore. And how was that not helpful? Are you taking what I said the wrong way? Honestly though, don't expect anyone to try to help you if you're going to come in and say "i have to say, that was not helpful." If something that is posted is wrong, say so, post facts to back up your statement, otherwise don't bother. Sorry if I'm coming across as a dick, that's not my intention. You just seemed like you needed to be put in your place. And by the way, you're not going to last long around here with that kind of attitude. If you're going to be like that, why would you expect anyone to want to do the research for you? You should be doing it yourself as it is, and only coming in here asking when you can't find the answer elsewhere.

Again, my apologies, I will no longer attempt to help you, sorry.

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  #11  
Old 25-04-2011, 21:58
eggs eggs is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtuallyEmotionless View Post
Are you kidding? My mistake, I won't bother to try and help you anymore. And how was that not helpful? Are you taking what I said the wrong way? Honestly though, don't expect anyone to try to help you if you're going to come in and say "i have to say, that was not helpful." If something that is posted is wrong, say so, post facts to back up your statement, otherwise don't bother. Sorry if I'm coming across as a dick, that's not my intention. You just seemed like you needed to be put in your place. And by the way, you're not going to last long around here with that kind of attitude. If you're going to be like that, why would you expect anyone to want to do the research for you? You should be doing it yourself as it is, and only coming in here asking when you can't find the answer elsewhere.

Again, my apologies, I will no longer attempt to help you, sorry.

lighten up man, it was a joke. (though i really still confused)

eggs added 2 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

and don't you think i havn't been looking everywhere for the answer? i said in the first post i havn't been able to find it. i've actually been looking for a definitive answer for a long time and havn't seen any conclusive evidence one way or the other. i did google "enteric capsules" as suggested and found absolutely nothing relating to OP's (or adderall for that matter, but im confused why i am searching for adderall at all)

Last edited by eggs; 25-04-2011 at 21:58. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #12  
Old 25-04-2011, 22:46
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

If you chew a percocet or similar pill, you will expose more surface area and get quicker bio-availability.
If before the manufacturer pressed the drug into a pill, they coated the powder itself in an enteric coating, then chewing the pill and exposing more surface area is not going to help because the enteric coating won't release the drug until it has passed the high-acid environment of your stomach. Chewing it will do you no good.
The new tamper-proof Oxycontin pill contains a newly designed (enteric) polymer. The polymer still surrounds the active ingredient, even when forcefully crushed.
Unless I've completely misunderstood your question, that's about as well as I can explain it.

  #13  
Old 25-04-2011, 22:58
eggs eggs is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balzafire View Post
If you chew a percocet or similar pill, you will expose more surface area and get quicker bio-availability.
If before the manufacturer pressed the drug into a pill, they coated the powder itself in an enteric coating, then chewing the pill and exposing more surface area is not going to help because the enteric coating won't release the drug until it has passed the high-acid environment of your stomach. Chewing it will do you no good.
The new tamper-proof Oxycontin pill contains a newly designed (enteric) polymer. The polymer still surrounds the active ingredient, even when forcefully crushed.
Unless I've completely misunderstood your question, that's about as well as I can explain it.

no you definitely got the question down, (thank you for trying to explain to it me btw). i guess i'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around how it is that the polymer works (if it's no longer surrounding the pill after it's been chewed up, im just assuming that it would be easier to release?). i think im completely misunderstanding how exactly it works. (though another thing is that perdue also advertised it as being "harder to crush, or chew to deter abuse", (insinuating that it still could be chewed.)?

i will try reading more but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
  #14  
Old 26-04-2011, 00:26
VirtuallyEmotionless VirtuallyEmotionless is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggs View Post
lighten up man, it was a joke. (though i really still confused)

eggs added 2 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

and don't you think i havn't been looking everywhere for the answer? i said in the first post i havn't been able to find it. i've actually been looking for a definitive answer for a long time and havn't seen any conclusive evidence one way or the other. i did google "enteric capsules" as suggested and found absolutely nothing relating to OP's (or adderall for that matter, but im confused why i am searching for adderall at all)
In that case, I'm terribly sorry. It came across as you being a smart ass, and I responded as such. I guess I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Sorry, and I hope we can let this go. We definitely got off on the wrong foot. Read my posts and you'll see that I'm really not a jerk-off. Anyway, any further posts regarding our misunderstanding should be taken to PM's, we've already steered this off-topic more than enough. That's not what I'm about. In fact, I'm going to go add you to my friend list now. Again, I was wrong, I'm sorry, and I hope you can forgive me.
  #15  
Old 26-04-2011, 07:07
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Think of it, like, they coated every grain in the powder before pressing it into a pill.

That's pretty much it.

Then there's other stuff that makes it gob up ("gel") & this gel can't be processed until it enters the intestines.

~Kailey
  #16  
Old 29-04-2011, 07:05
Marmadukemark Marmadukemark is offline
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Re: chewing Op's

Jakemydog tells me that he notices effects sooner if he chews them up. We need to define that though. Jake bits them into little pieces (using his incisors, though he stills needs a toothpick) and then masticates and sucks on them until all the little pieces are completely dissolved. If one were just chewing them and then swallowing all the little pieces, no that is not going to help much, if any.

What ever it is that they coat the pills with as you say, Jake says some animals call this the gel matrix, which can easily be "broken" by a process Jake says is called "crisping" by some. There's lot of good information about all this on these boards.

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adderall, adderall xr, amphetamine, chewing pills, concerta, defeating timed release medicins, enteric coatings, lemon juice, oxycontin, oxycontin op, percocet, roxy

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