Drugs and religion

[chrustol]

Some time ago Swim realized that large group of his friends that eat's LSD was beliving in nothing, but then there faite over some mental changes in there life was transfered to budda(religion), but this religion dissuade to take drugs. and they stopped. In there situation as they told Swim "the drugs have showd us the path to not taking them.
What are you thinking about this or any religion and drugs.. and Does you need to belive in something? and what with God Visions since Tripping?

[Sarin]

It seems fairly common (though by no means universal needless to say) for many Buddhists, or those who have Buddhist sympathies, to have 'found' their way to the teachings and philosophy of buddhism through psychedelic substances. For myself it was actually the other way 'round!

I was raised a catholic and was always fascinated by the imagery and symbolism of the faith - especially the darker imagery - but it never made any deep connection and the older I got, the bigger the gaps got in the narrative until it all just fell apart with no great loss felt, other than a feeling about something...

By chance I picked up a guide book on Sri Lanka which I was interested in visiting and happened to read about the main faith that existed there - Buddhism. There was something deeply familiar about what was just a brief outline, and I looked further and further, until I found a welcoming home in Tibetan Buddhism - which arguably is about as far from 'original' Buddhism as you can get - with it's Wrathful Deities and huge cosmological constructions, form and emptiness, and of course the bardo states.

Which brought me to a 'discovery' of the many possible uses of psychedelics. It's not openly accepted - in fact it's generally condemned - by 'traditional' Buddhist teachers because of the greater societal implications, but tacitly many will accept that there is a great deal of promise in the use of these substances to more fully chart and explore the bardo states.

This is a threat to many because it puts experience and exploration back into the hands, and the responsibility, of the individual, and weakens dogma and control - which Buddhism generally now consists of having become the religion it was originally not to be.

There is a great deal to suggest that parts of the Bible was written under influences of some kind. A friend who is a committed Christian (as they all should be... ) lent me his copy with the suggestion to read a certain book (I forget which) and it left very little doubt in my mind that the author must have been whacked right out of his skull. I thought ergotism at the time, but later research made me wonder whether there were any belladonna fruiting nearby...

Of course there are a great many more faiths and beliefs, accepted and persecuted, whose practises involve psychoactive and entheogenic substances. It makes sense to me that as part of evolution (which takes place on every level) we should entertain the possibility that synthetic chemical substances may well be as important as 'natural' ones.

Personally, I have melded some of my Buddhist leanings together with the thought that God dwells in every atom that exists - but it goes much greater than that, and escapes language. And that's something I hope my little helpers will enable me to map out.

In my novel, obviously...

[IHrtHalucingens]

i think faith and belief in something greater is very different for each and every person, to say that everyone must believe the same thing and worship the same way is rediculous, it is an incredibly personal thing. i am not a religious person at all but in terms of the direction our lives take and its relation to our actions i do lean towards buddhism. I find that Kharma is a very real thing and do try to live my life with that in mind. Even though i have indulged in a few drugs here and there i still consider myself eligible to be a "semi-buddhist". Religion is much a way of explaining the unexplainable, its human nature to feel uncomfortable about things we cant explain so we must fabricate something that we can use to explain these things. So yes i think everyone needs something to believe in; whether it be god, buddha, or the ability to control your own destiny. Drugs can help you reach the point where you know what you believe in but i do not think they determine it.

[Richard_smoker]

I believe that the mystically-oriented religions are all enhanced, alluded-to, centered-around the same types of mindstates that psychedelic drugs evoke. If you think about it, the psychedelic is nothing but a tool that alters your perception of reality--usually by altering something wired somewhere between your sensory processing unit (the thalamus) and the cortex, which relays 'observations' (any senses really) to more regions of cortex which then decode the meaning of those observations.

It is thought, and assumed, that psychedelic drugs alter this course. For some, (and, in many situations) LSD is an excellent model for the idea that we all have a conscious mind, sub-conscious, and unconscious mind--everything under mid-subconscious levels are totally imperceptible for the normal human, in a normal, everyday setting--i.e. watching t.v., working, filing paperwork, typing onto a computer, browsing these forums, etc.

It is only when these delicate 'veils' covering our unconscious processes are removed or moved further down in the direction of unconscious thought, that we can begin to notice more of the constant activities of our sub/unconscious minds. Thus, the well-known LSD "meltdown" when stimuli become "too much" for the mind to appropriately deal with. There are so many different LOUD stimuli coming from all directions, and sometimes with equal signal strength (i.e. feeling the hairs on the rug with your feet, carrying on a conversation with a neighbor, thinking about all the possible reactions and social subtleties might be going on within that conversation, etc.) All these otherwise imperceptible stimuli are perceived with a sort of equal weighting (depending on how DEEP you are into tripping). This is the root of paranoia and the idea that LSD might give psychologists a real-life, inducible model for paranoid schitzophrenia.

Well, as long as the dosage is low enough to prevent that meltdown, and if the hallucinations/vision are actually *accepted* by the individual, not as weird, or "I'm going crazy!". Instead, if they are expected or rather greeted as ok, normal, or 'what I was seeking', then you find a state of mind almost identical to the 'mystic''s journey into the mind. Here you can find various shaman, sacred mushroom rituals, peyote ritual, religious visions, etc. it's the idea that ALL OF US share the same basic functioning. Sometimes, to communicate these ideas, it's very simple just to recite the hallucination of a human emotional reaction to a very normal emotional trigger or event.

then these stories can be used to teach basic, elemental, truths--that are true for all humans and found in allegories, myths, and religious texts.

It just so happens to be that the so-called "older" religions actually still embrace every person's ability to unveil this layer himself. Drugs are not necessary because extreme concious separation (i.e. through meditation, yoga etc.) can be achieved without drugs, and it's just as 'cool' as when found through the hallucinogenic or mind-altered state of reflection.

the main difference is the level of difficulty for obtaining this 'veil removal' or 'enlightenment' as a buddist would say. But buddhism is only 1 of such mysticism-based religions. Don't forget Hinduism (incl. Yoga), Buddhism, Taoism, Zen, and other such religions.

[fatmanstan]

For anyone interested further in the religious implications of entheogens, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Huston Smith's Cleansing the Doors Of Perception. I couldn't find an online copy of it, but it is well worth the purchase price.

[fatmanstan]

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/hsmith.htm

Here is a link to one of the essays in the book, Do Drugs Have Religous Import

[Ninja Master]

budha, allah, god, what ever title you give it....

from dionisis to santa.... i believe that most "anchent" religeons are based around psychoactive compounds... i would say that the christian church today has nothing to do with what it is based on. they run around with poor representation of "god," being two pieces of wood in the formation of a t. i believe that jesus was son of man. if we are all gods children, then why is jesus special? the message of jesus according to my book of the occult of christianity was, "do not warship me, warship my god." the failure of the modern church today is that its message is "FEAR GOD," and not "love god".... sound and light are vibrations... everything you see and hear is your perception of vibrations.... i believe in about half of the budhist ways, but i believe in about half of all of the religeous ways of the past that ive found. they try to name the nameless. from what i read, the illuminati believe that "god" is within. i believe that "god" is everywhere, at every moment including within. im saying god knows no boundrys, and inhibits everything including the christian representation of the "devil." im saying that "god" is omnipotent..

i was athiest for my whole drug experiance(around 6 years). i quit using drugs since i started college, no time to do them... so im crusing along and i say to my self i know theres something more, and that christianity is totaly off the target. i embraced what ever there is, and then i had a vision. it was a powerfull vision... it was not only to accept my death, but to accept the death of the earth and all living beings. i became infinate. the vision showed me out of the darkness of void the explosion that scientists today would call the big bang, and the creation of the universe. it showed me how we come from the pool of collective conciousness(reincarnations). vibrating fury and energy that we are insignificant to. socrates in his moments before exicution for blasphemy, said to his apprentice... "my conciousness was before i physicly came into it, and will continue when i die." or something along those lines. jesus was killed for blasphemy also, with absolute confidence in his "god." christianity is the only religeon that teaches time is a line rather than cycles.

the christian church has become a control mechanisim. just like tv, advertisements, and government. it all goes back to the pharos of the bible. they build great pyramids, we today build glorious citys. the american people are just as much slaves to building pyramids as slaves to taxes. they tax sales of everything, gas that everyone uses, cigerettes, alcohol, and last but definately not least 1/3 of everyones pay checks.

they use the tv to brain wash people into consumerism... to buy shit thats going to be trash in 5 years or less anyways. your brains more active during sleep than watching tv.... we have become a nation of zombies stamping out parts, selling our souls for 7 dollars an hour, to start the cycle again. its power, and control, that the church is interested in. passing the collection plate and then make you submit to fear, and not love. they do not accept the drug culture, as fellow humans and brothers.

when we reach the point of accepting this, loving our brothers, and global unity we break the cycle. we will all grow together, rather than appart. the christian big wig preachers on tv preach "the devil is very tricky, and can even portray him self as good." when the earth is destroyed this all stops and the universe is.

mans law will always be inferior to "gods" law. using the name of "god" to elivate christians above the drug culture is breaking commandments. its turning people against eachother instead of uniting them. this goes back to the start of this stent. the amanita muscaria... santa... the holy grail... dionisis is the god of amanita, not wine... the last indiana jones movie, the holy grail is the most unholy cup of all he has to choose from. basicly saying that "god" inhibits the most unholy things. amanita muscaria flairs to a cup formation and collects rain water producing wizards wine. amanita muscaria come from spruce trees aka "christmas" trees. i am not going to be fooled by the preacher man, and noone else should be either!!

so there it is, "god" talks to me and demands christian acceptance of the drug culture. gave me a whole loop that cannot be denied. a final note is that in the first chapter of the old testiment that any plant that produces seed is gods gift.

put that in your pipe and smoke it

Z