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  #1  
Old 15-04-2011, 21:18
Khariz Khariz is offline
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O-165 and ZZ-1

A guy that my gerbil like to buy cannabinoids from is peddling something that he is referring to as "O-165" and calling it the his most potent cannabinoid to date.

I checked very carefully to make sure that search engines would not reveal the vendor before asking this question. I'm trying to milk the chemical formula out him, but no luck so far.

Has anyone ever heard of the substance by this name. A hunch tells me that it's probably similar to AM-2201, but without some genuine testing, I have no clue at this point.

I just wanted to reach out to the community and see if anyone was familiar with this name. The substance has a white, crystalline appearance similar to that of AM-2201 and is not fluffy like JWH compounds.
  #2  
Old 20-04-2011, 04:16
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Re: O-165

I was wondering what this was too, and was about to ask, until I found your post. I'll try to be vague, as I just want some answers and have absolutely no interest in finding/promoting/identifying sources for anything. I will not reveal a source, nor do I want one revealed to me.

I've "heard" from a wombat that O-165 is similar to but more potent than AM-2201. So what is it? Advertized as A brand name, or a slang name I am not familiar with? What might a chemist call it, or what is it related to? The suspicion is that it is a cannabinoid-type chemical, though this is completely unsubstantiated. I have no experience whatsoever with it, but the local wombat is intrigued.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 20-04-2011 at 16:18.
  #3  
Old 20-04-2011, 05:30
Khariz Khariz is offline
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Re: O-165

My gerbil has tried O-165 three times now. He can confirm that it is 100% sure a cannabinoid.

As far as the effects go...Whereas AM-2201 feels like a more intense JWH-018, O-165 has a crazy head high with a fast pulsing time distortion more similiar to the way JWH-250 feels.

My gerbil actually wonders if O-165 isn't a new substance at all. He speculates that it could be a blend with a "cool name" of other known cannabinoids. He has no reason to think this is true, but is shocked that more people aren't talking/asking about this unless its just something that someone made up.
  #4  
Old 21-04-2011, 03:34
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Re: O-165

Thanks for your info Khariz. Any clue about dose/duration? This one sounds intgeresting, but my acquaintance is not yet ready to give it a go. I just want to know what the hell it is, and I agree that it may very well be something already known. A blend of multiple chemicals is one possibility we hadn't considered.

A somewhat shadowy (not saying he's shady by any means, just mysterious) guy I will call "Johnny," supposedly has sent a sample of O-165 out for lab testing but is not expecting the results for a while. I guess we'll just have to be patient.
  #5  
Old 21-04-2011, 03:56
Shampoo Shampoo is offline
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Re: O-165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khariz View Post
My gerbil actually wonders if O-165 isn't a new substance at all.
Just to be clear, none of these compounds have really been 'new' substances, but rather the product of some literature-digging. Most of the AM-XXXX series was described more than a decade ago, and the JWH-XXX, HU, CP, and WIN series just as long ago. The 'O-' prefix is not arbitrary, just as the JWH-XXX, AM, CP and HU series are described by their prfixes. O- as a prefix precedes a compound synthesized by Organix, Inc., a legitimate chemical supply company. They have been the source of invention for dozens of cannabinoids, some of which are water soluble (!), others are inverse agonists, many are semi-selective full or partial agonists, and some interfere with the cannabinoid system indirectly. If this compound is labeled correctly, then it is one of their products.

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thank you for explaining the naming system
  #6  
Old 21-04-2011, 13:16
Valseedian Valseedian is offline
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Re: O-165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shampoo View Post
Just to be clear, none of these compounds have really been 'new' substances, but rather the product of some literature-digging. Most of the AM-XXXX series was described more than a decade ago, and the JWH-XXX, HU, CP, and WIN series just as long ago. The 'O-' prefix is not arbitrary, just as the JWH-XXX, AM, CP and HU series are described by their prfixes. O- as a prefix precedes a compound synthesized by Organix, Inc., a legitimate chemical supply company. They have been the source of invention for dozens of cannabinoids, some of which are water soluble (!), others are inverse agonists, many are semi-selective full or partial agonists, and some interfere with the cannabinoid system indirectly. If this compound is labeled correctly, then it is one of their products.

Just noting that more than likely this water solubility will make the substances in question difficult or impossible to pass the Blood Brain Barrier...
hence these are the chems that are being researched heavily as to a medical cannabinoid- All the pain releif and (possibly) appetite renewal without the 'high'..


AFAIK, one very well known (now out of business) Thai Vendor once had an o-series compound synthed in small amounts and found it lacking. The new compound is likely not an o-series cannabinoid, and if it is, it's intentionally misnamed, which doesn't bode well- with research I've not yet found any resources describing o-165, tho there is very little literature describing o-1656 and o-1657, without any real info as to synth or binding capacity (tho I believe neither of these to be the Water Soluable ones)

o-1125 is Very highly active and Not Water soluable, o-1057 is Water soluable.
O-2545 is both water soluable and one of the strongest binding cannabinoids I've ever researched. beating out am-694 by a considerable margin.


hope this gives you somewhere to start, wish I could devote more time to this answer.


I do not tout this as fact, but a few of my coleagues and I have discussed this subject at length and have come to the assumption that these o-series that are watersoluable may very well have metabolites that are significantly active and also able to pass the BBB. Absolutely 0 scientific tests, just observing, postulating.

Last edited by Valseedian; 21-04-2011 at 13:36.
  #7  
Old 23-04-2011, 06:57
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Re: O-165

Thanks for the info Shampoo and Valseedian, that's just the type of thing I was looking for! I think I speak for Khariz, too when I say we don't expect this to be a "new" chemical, though a vendor has been sort of pushing something he calls O-165, which we have not seen before and know nothing about.

The info about O-series chemicals, possible water solubility, BBB implications, and potential medical use is interesting. Someone alluded to this O-165 being similar to AM-2201, so I am now very skeptical that it is from the O-series and wonder if it is something else completely which is being completely misrepresented. Of course I'll pass on purchasing any of this without having any idea what it really is. Tales of any other sightings or experiences would be very welcome. Until this is positively identified I'll keep wondering.
  #8  
Old 23-04-2011, 19:11
Shampoo Shampoo is offline
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Re: O-165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valseedian View Post
Just noting that more than likely this water solubility will make the substances in question difficult or impossible to pass the Blood Brain Barrier...
Where are you pulling that information from? There are plenty of highly water soluble compounds which very readily cross the BBB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valseedian View Post
hence these are the chems that are being researched heavily as to a medical cannabinoid- All the pain releif and (possibly) appetite renewal without the 'high'..
Probably a better topic for another thread, but it should be noted that much of the analgesic properties of cannabinoids are mediated by mechanisms in the central nervous system-- i.e. they are not purely peripheral mechanisms.
  #9  
Old 16-05-2011, 18:11
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Re: O-165

*bump* Anyone find out anything else about O-165 yet? I'm pretty tempted to do an experiment, but my methods are significantly worse than "good" science, and I want to hear a couple reports on it first. The pusher's hype is killing me, haha, but I need to have an idea of what it is.
  #10  
Old 16-05-2011, 18:23
Shampoo Shampoo is offline
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Re: O-165

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp View Post
The pusher's hype is killing me, haha, but I need to have an idea of what it is.
My personal speculation? This is not an Organix Inc. compound, despite the O-xxx designation. This compound is not currently and has never been in their catalogue, nor is it part of their publications. Thus, the logical conclusion is that your pushy vendor is hyping a mislabled, unknown substance. The most reasonable thing to do in this situation? Tell the "pusher" to either give you a chemical structure and CAS number of fuck right off. The culture of consuming completely unknown substances on the word of a pushy, unscrupulous vendor has to end or this entire market is doomed to strict regulation and ultimate failure. Be responsible, for the sake of everyone's ability to further the knowledge of psychonautic exploration unheeded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp View Post
I'm pretty tempted to do an experiment, but my methods are significantly worse than "good" science, and I want to hear a couple reports on it first.
If you absolutely insist on consuming an unknown, improperly marketed and labeled substance of which you have no evidence for activity, safety, or toxic potential, there is no reason that your methods cannot fall in line with "good" science (although, this is not really "good" science, it's just the best you can do at home without equipment and a laboratory).


Here's a good way to approach a novel substance without specialized equipment and resources (or better yet, cell cultures and animal subjects..):

- Determine solubility. Is the substance soluble in H2O? EtOH? How about lipid-based mediums? These can all be determined with household materials (diH2O is best, but even well-filtered water can be fine for this purpose).

- Determine the lowest active dose. Considering that we are discussing hyperpotent cannabinoids, start with 250µg. If your scale does not go this low, dissolve 10mg in 100ml of the solvent determined above. Consume 2.5ml of this solvent (or alternatively, drop 2.5ml of this solvent on an inert smoking medium or even on a piece of foil and let it evaporate, leaving 250µg of the substance). Each time the substance proves to be inactive, wait some time (ideally 5-7 days, but 24hrs will work) and attempt again (250µg --> 500µg --> 1mg..etc. etc.).

- Take careful notes of any primary effects or side-effects. Follow your heart-rate, this can be done without any special equipment. If you have access to such equipment, check you blood pressure, blood oxygenation..etc.

- Take more notes. Then, when you think you've written everything down, take some more notes.

- Report your notes for public consumption and analysis!

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Sensible, practical, a safe diagnostic algorithm (or at least probably) and the best way to obtain potentially useful info that can be utilized by laypersons. Enlightening Shampoo, many thanks.
  #11  
Old 25-05-2011, 06:02
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Re: O-165

Thanks again Shampoo! I share your insistence for caution when dealing with these potentially interesting substances, even if I do not share your technical knowledge. My salesman says he is expecting lab analysis info back any day now on his "O-165," as well as his new "ZZ-1," whatever that is. I am naturally skeptical of any unsubstantiated sales offer, and will update folks here if and when the supplier comes through with more detailed or standardized product descriptions, in hopes of clarifying just what is being sold.



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Please upload the image onto Drugs-Forum rather than hotlink. The hotlink is broken.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ZZ1.jpg (6.3 KB, 559 views)

Last edited by Phenoxide; 25-05-2011 at 13:07. Reason: hotlinked image uploaded
  #12  
Old 25-05-2011, 13:05
Phenoxide Phenoxide is nu online
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Re: O-165

I'm not sure what that image associated with your post was supposed to show us. Is that what this mysterious "O-165" has been advertised as? If so then it's not a cannabinoid at all, but rather the beta-ketone stimulant 4-methyl-alpha-methylpyrrolidinopropiophenone (MαPPP). Looks like more vendor bullshit to me.
  #13  
Old 03-06-2011, 03:43
Wyatt Burp Wyatt Burp is offline
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Re: O-165

Sorry for not being clear, that was the supposed structure of the so-called "ZZ-1". Probably should have posted that in another thread, not sure where my head was then. In any case, due to all of the obfuscation and lack of information about his newer products, I am no longer going to trust the supplier I mentioned previously.
  #14  
Old 28-06-2011, 17:21
The Network The Network is offline
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Zz-1

Anyone got any info?

The Network added 1 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

It's a water soluble cannabinoid completely structurally different than any other cannabinoid I've ever seen.

That's all I know.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 28-06-2011 at 17:29. Reason: thread merge
  #15  
Old 28-06-2011, 18:36
Shampoo Shampoo is offline
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Re: Zz-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Network View Post
It's a water soluble cannabinoid completely structurally different than any other cannabinoid I've ever seen.
Source? And are you referring to the structure posted above? As pointed out, that is not a CB, but rather MαPPP

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