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Concerta & Ritalin About Methylphenidate.

 
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  #1  
Old 07-04-2011, 14:37
sum1sgoddess sum1sgoddess is offline
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Methylin 20 mg and methylphenidate 20 mg

Swim was taking methylin 20mg 3x day. The methylin did not have anything after it such as ER or SR. It has an M and a 20 on it. Swims newest refill this time said methylphenidate 20 mg and the tablets say dan 20 5884. Are these two meds exactly the same because swim says it doesn't feel the same as the methylin.

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UTFSE; and additionally this borders against the rule on pill identification
  #2  
Old 08-04-2011, 23:16
Veksul Veksul is offline
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Re: Methylin 20 mg and methylphenidate 20 mg

No they are not "exactly" the same. They should contain the same exact amount of methylphenidate (as all generics are required to by law), however the inactive ingredients may vary from brand to brand. This subject has been discussed in great depth in a couple threads already. I highly suggest reading them for more information:

Generic Ritalin
Manufacturer of Ritalin Needing Less Rather Than More

Also, please remember to UTFSE before creating a new thread. Helps reduce clutter of repetitive and duplicate threads that are already being discussed. Just a friendly reminder. Welcome to Drugs-Forum by the way

*I'd like to add that in the "Generic Ritalin" thread, my post a few scrolls down (#12) is specifically informative in answering this question.

Last edited by Veksul; 08-04-2011 at 23:16. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #3  
Old 10-04-2011, 08:05
Wanderer Wanderer is offline
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Re: Methylin 20 mg and methylphenidate 20 mg

While the hamster acknowledges that this thread is covered to one extent to another in the threads. However, Mr. Hamster read the referenced threads and while SWIVeksul's post was pretty informative regarding the additional ingredients in the various formulations of methylphenidate. Those threads have either fallen dead or have seccummed to unrelated discussion. IOW, noise. Most unfortunate.

While it is true there is not as strict control over "generic" manufacturers to recreate the original formulation completely, these differences can result in differences in bioequivalence as well as therapeutic quality.

Mr. Hamster read about these a while back in some documents here in the documents archive listed here:

The bioequivalence and therapeutic efficacy of generic versus brand-name psychoative drugs

and this paper:

Switching from Brand-Name to Generic Psychotropic Medications: A Literature Review

Additionally, different methods of producing methylphenidate can favor different enantiomers over another. More may be found in this paper the hamster just uploaded to the DF Document archives:

Approaches to the Preparation of Enantiomerically Pure (2R,2'R)-(+)-threo-Methylphenidate Hydrochloride

So, variations in the production of the particular racemic formulation the generic and it's ratios of the enantiomers. There are actually four enantiomers, one is not considered active, while the other three are. d-methylphenidate which is the active ingredient in Focalin is considered the most active.

Hopefully this adds some more information beyond just the "inactive" ingredients contained in one formulation or another.

Bottom line, there is a difference and every hamster, chinchilla, and gerbil may react differently to one formulation or another.

Mr. Hamster would also suggest this thread be merged with the "Generic Ritalin" and the "Manufacturer of Ritalin Needing Less Rather Than More" that SWIVeksul pointed out into one consolidated thread, but that would be up to the Moderator powers that be.

Be well...


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Great informative links to the archive
Excellent references.
  #4  
Old 10-04-2011, 19:54
Veksul Veksul is offline
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Re: Methylin 20 mg and methylphenidate 20 mg

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer View Post
Approaches to the Preparation of Enantiomerically Pure (2R,2'R)-(+)-threo-Methylphenidate Hydrochloride

So, variations in the production of the particular racemic formulation the generic and it's ratios of the enantiomers. There are actually four enantiomers, one is not considered active, while the other three are. d-methylphenidate which is the active ingredient in Focalin is considered the most active.
This is a very interesting study. However, if I read it right, I believe the two enantiomers (2S, 2'S)-(-)-erythro-methylphenidate and (2R, 2'R)-(+)-erythro-methylphenidate were used only before discovery that the threo enantiomers were significantly active. Therefore, the methylphenidate found in prescription today should be a mixture of these two:

l-threo-methylphenidate [(2S,2'S)-(-)-threo-methylphenidate]
d-threo-methylphenidate [(2R,2'R)-(+)-threo-methylphenidate]


You are correct that there are four enantiomers of methylphenidate (at least of current knowledge from past use). However, unlike amphetamine, they are not all pharmacologically useful. Erythro was used when the drug was first synthesized (1944), but nowadays, racemic TMP (d,l-threo-methylphenidate) are the used enantiomers. They are also easily seperated energetically from the erythro enantiomers, so there should be no reason that a formulation of MPH should contain the erythro. That's not saying with 100% certainty that there isn't (as it would make for a great and convenient answer to this difference between brands), but from reading numerous past studies on "TMP" and not "EMP" I am convinced that they are not used.

I am not sure if by law the erythro-MPH is even considered as equivalent to threo-MPH. If it isn't, as it shouldn't be, any erythro-MPH would not pass as an acceptable ingredient in a generic. Just as Focalin contains only the d-threo-methylphenidate isomer as it's ingredient, Ritalin or any generic should only contain the d,l-threo-methylphenidate isomers as their ingredients.
  #5  
Old 17-04-2011, 02:56
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Re: Methylin 20 mg and methylphenidate 20 mg

The hamster pondered this and mental transmission from SWIVeksul regarding the ratio of l-methylphenidate and d-methylphenidate varying from one manufacturer to another. It's not clear if they must have the same ratios in their formulation, or are even required to as a generic producer. They all most likely they use different manufacturing methods which could result in a different racemic mixture which might vary widely from one producer to another.

Mr. Hamster thinks this might be the explanation for why the effectiveness of his methylphenidate seems to have decreased when his healthcare chihuahua prescribed 20mg tablets instead of 10mg tablets both produced by different manufacturers.

The hamster also acknowledges that the "inactive" ingredients in any given formulation which seem to vary widely from manufacturer to another might also affect the quality of the medication. Also, "inactive" ingredients may have their own effects when combined in the generic methylphenidate tablet.

This whole discussion regarding generic methylphenidate versus brand name Ritalin, has got the hamster wondering about the effectiveness of other medications. He's wondering whether some generics are more effective than others. The hamster has read a couple of papers on this subject and it has him in a quandary since one typically has little choice in the manufacturer of the generic they are dispensed. He seems to feel this is probably a function of the pharmacy and the particular supplier they use.

Be well...
  #6  
Old 17-04-2011, 15:53
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Methylin 20 mg and methylphenidate 20 mg

Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer View Post
The hamster also acknowledges that the "inactive" ingredients in any given formulation which seem to vary widely from manufacturer to another might also affect the quality of the medication. Also, "inactive" ingredients may have their own effects when combined in the generic methylphenidate tablet.

This whole discussion regarding generic methylphenidate versus brand name Ritalin, has got the hamster wondering about the effectiveness of other medications. He's wondering whether some generics are more effective than others.
Back when I was on the pain clinic & was prescribed methadone tablets, I noticed a HUGE difference between the 2 different generics my pharmacy carried. The small round tablets were FAR more effective than the larger round tablets (which have since been replaced by rectangular tablets). I don't remember who made the "good" tablets", but Mallinkrodt made the "bad" ones. With the smaller tablets, I could take my morning dose & feel it kick in gently and it would last me all day - I'd often forget to take my afternoon dose (methadone for pain is often dosed 3x a day) because I wasn't in pain. During the months I'd be given the bigger tablets, they didn't work nearly as well; I'd have to take an extra 5-10mg with my morning dose & would definitely have to redose, especially if I were out & about.

The pharmacy & doctors told me it was all in my head, of course. But that's when I did a little searching around & found that paper that said that although generics were required to have the same amount of active ingredient, because of the binders/fillers/etc, the bioavailability of the medication could vary as much as 80% of the name brand to 125% of the name brand - & that this was acceptable! That's just crazy! Can you imagine, what if someone were getting, say, a generic alprazolam that had 80% bioavailability for a while, then their pharmacy got a different generic that was 120% bioavailable compared to the name brand? That's a huge difference!

Unfortunately, in Massachusetts, the pharmacy is required BY LAW to fill the prescription with a generic formulation unless the doctor specifically writes NO SUBSTITUTIONS on the prescriptions. Naturally, insurance doesn't cover the name brand if there's a generic available. *growl*

IIRC, I had some success with dissolving the tablets in water & letting it sit for a few minutes prior to ingestion, but this was a number of years ago now & I don't recall exactly how much success I had. It's funny, because I'm on a methadone clinic now, where I get the "cherry" liquid dose made by Mallinkrodt (the ones who manufactured the "bad" tablets), but it holds me similarly as the "good" tablets did back in the day. However, I think this is down more to the fact that I take a much larger dose at once now than I used to; I do still feel it wear off & all. Even more amusing is that Mallinkrodt is the main manufacturer of methadone & the ones who provide the methadone to the company that made the "good" tablets! So, it's OBVIOUSLY something about the fillers/binders & not, say, a different manufacturing process to make the methadone.

Generics are a very odd subject.

~Kailey

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active ingredient, adderall, adderall dosage, drugs, ethylphenidate, methadone, methylin, methylphenidate, recreational dose, ritalin, shoot up

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