Dose - Turbina Corymbosa / Rivea Corymbosa Dose

[jarka]

Swim recently got some Turbina Corymbosa seeds, and he can't find any normal dosage information about them. He has read that Turbina Corymbosa seeds are twice as potent as morning glory seeds and some say that you must not eat more than 10 seeds.. These seeds are known as Ololiuqui, Turbina Corymbosa, Rivea Corymbosa etc. Anyone have more information on the appropriate dosage for these seeds?

[genaro]

The seeds of Ololiuqui (Rivea corymbosa aka Turbina Corymbosa), Morning glory (Ipomea violacea aka I. tricolor aka I. rubrocaerulea...other Ipomea sp. such as I.purpurea might be active too) and Hawaiian baby woodrose (Argyreia Nervosa) all contain LSAs (including ergine).

Swim have experience with Morning glory (swim need 500 seeds for an intense trip which is 15g) and HBWR (8-12 seeds give swim an intense trip).

As swim have no experience with Ololiuqui, I wonder what might be the dosage for this one, I heard Ololiuqui was similar to morning glories but more potent (but still less potent than hbwr which are the most potent LSAs containing seeds around).

Does anyone have experience with Ololiuqui seeds ?

How much is needed for an intense psychedelic trip (meaning as intense as 10 HBWR seeds or 500 heavenly blue morning glory seeds) ?



According to erowid:

LAA% Total Alks. % by weight

Hawaiian baby wood rose: 0.04 0.30
Ololiuqui: 0.02 0.04
Heavenly Blue: 0.01 0.02
Pearly Gates: 0.02 0.03
Wedding Bells: 0.01 0.03


So, condisering that most mg seeds sold by online smartshops are the heavenly blue (which dose is 500seeds = 15g for intense effect), I guess that Ololiuqui beeing reported twice as potent by weight (from this erowid chart), then Ololiuqui dosage must be half the heavenly blue dosage (15g) which would mean 7.5 gram of seeds for intense effects, am I wrong here ?
Now if we consider the Pearly gates cultivar, then those morning glories seem to be almost as potent (by weight) as Ololiuqui, but I'm assuming the most used cultivar is heavenly blue, so I made my calculations considering that 15g doses are for heavenly blue.
Anybody with experience of these seeds could validate my assumptions?

[plantshaman]

good question but after alot of research a while back I came up with mixed reports ranging from 10 seeds to 100 or so .

Swim tried about 30 with no effect. He wonders if its mostly the potency of the seeds.

[jbmac]

Originally Posted by plantshaman

good question but after alot of research a while back I came up with mixed reports ranging from 10 seeds to 100 or so .
Swim tried about 30 with no effect. He wonders if its mostly the potency of the seeds.

SWIM has tried 1-80 seeds - and at 80 seeds, all he gets is very mild
CEVs and anti-depressed feelings. SWIM uses these seeds as an
Anti-depressent. SWIM thinks only very fresh seeds can do what
HBWR seeds or Morning Glory seeds can do, but SWIM really is amazed
how 5-20 seeds of the old Riviea Cory seeds sold by vendors does
for depression.

[genaro]

I'm taking this thread back up because the question of 'Ololiuqui (Rivea Corymbosa) seeds dosage' remains somewhat unanswered, or let's say that no definite answer came out.
So does any one has new imput on this matter (strong effects from personal experience with those seeds)?

[HeavyFlea]

I spoke with Some Random Dude and he only had experience with the Ololiuqui (Rivea Corymbosa) seeds. He said the freshness of the seeds is probably the biggest factor, he also mentioned reading that the potency in the seeds can change from plant to plant.

SRD told me he starting with 10, with very mild affects, very possibly anti-depressant like. He then moved to 30 with sensations almost like mild LSD affects. Then 50 (this was all the same batch) and the affects were very similar to 30. While no outstanding hallucinations (mild breathing in patterns) he really enjoyed watching a fractal program with music.

SRD told me he feels very safe in trying 80 his next trial, and mentioned he's got a bunch more from another vender coming in to compare with his current batch, and will probably start at 30 with those. His suggestion was to start small and work your way up and feel out your comfort level. (I've read that's a good plan with a lot of ethnos.)

There is little info out there on these specific seeds, I've heard they can be good for cluster headaches, but don't really know what those are. The small doses for anti-depression and a mood lift sounds interesting as well.

[Kada]

Sorry if this has been posted before, was wondering what everyones experience was with these.

i live in a country that does not control LSA, so i dont think i need to say swim all the time.

I recently got my Rivea plants to flower this year and have always read (ane believed) that fresh seeds only need 10-30ish seeds. I have done this plant many times before with vendor seeds and liked it far more than hbwr/mg but i always needed to take more than 100 seeds. so i tried these fresh seeds (0-2 days old) and started with 5 and worked up in groups of 5 until the last time i got to 55 seeds. still nothing. 55 gave me that empty groggy feeling in the belly and a slight warm feeling one gets with many plants but thats it.

so. how many seeds did it take *you/swim* to get effects with this plant?

[Alfa]

Some quotes from the net:

10 seeds is a good starting point for your first attempt. If you do not feel much, wait 5 days between attempts and increase the dose by 5 seeds or less each time you try, until you find a dose size you like. The recommended dose of ololiuqui seeds for psychoactive effect is from about 15-30 seeds.

Ingesting larger quantities of seeds in search of a stronger experience is not a good idea. As doses start to exceed 30 seeds, the user will tend to vomit rather than get more intoxicated. There is no chance of a fatal overdose, but vomiting is unpleasant enough in itself.

These very rare Rivea corymbosa (Ololiuhqui) seeds come from Huautla de Jimenez, Oaxaca, Mexico. This is one of the most famous sacred places in the world.

These seeds produce similar trips to Argyreia nervosa (Hawaiian Baby Woodrose), but said to be better since they produce less bad feelings, i.e., nausia, etc., and unlike Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, they have a history of shamanic use amongst Native American tribes.

Rivea corybosa

The seeds have been traditionally prepared by Mexican Indians by grinding them into a fine powder and soaking in water for 12 hours. The seeds are then filtered from the water which is then drank; the Indians found that 15 - 25 seeds is enough for journeying.

The traditional and most suitable method of preparation is to soak the finely ground or chewed seeds in half a cup of water for several hours, then consuming both the water and seeds.

The traditional dose consists of 14 to 22 seeds (R. Gordon Wasson, 'Ololiuhqui and the other hallucinogens of Mexico' in 'Homenaje a Roberto J. Weitlaner'. 1971). There have been experiments where these amounts elicited no effects among Western subjects. Eventually they ingested up to 60 - 100 seeds. Higher dosages led to nothing but vomiting and several other undesirable side-effects.

“hi
the product its ok, the olioliuqui seeds its in my opinion the best lsa resource because they dont have ergometrine that meke the uncomfortable sensation in the stomach that the "hawaian woodrose baby" have. but 20 seeds its really a half dosis it should be at least 35 seeds to get a correct dosis”

I suspect that weight will be a better way to measure the dose of these seeds, because when you look at the advised dose, most people advise in the same range of 10 - 30 seeds, but the deviation is always there. This seems to be the effect of each seed being of different size and therefore the number of seeds seem to be an impossible way to measure dose.

[ljfe]

This poll is pretty neat, but I wish it was a little less specific.
SWIM has taken like 700 of these in the past month. He considers a trip 61-70, because a 'good dose' is 60. He feels minimal effects from 30, moderate pupils at 60, and intense euphoria at 90. Any higher than this is just intensity, visuals, and some tired sickness.
BTW he chews the fully and chases them with orange juice.
He finished his last 180 today, decent trip.

[Kada]

interesting! i have never had intense visuals with anything under 100 seeds (old vendor type seeds).

but i did start to get very mild visual distortion at around 80-90. this is why i made it specific so we can see how much people take without a huge variance.

i crush chew and swallow as well.


btw, was this poll merged with another?

[Alfa]

This poll was merged with another thread.

[Kada]

it is interesting how those quotes mentioned at higher doses they make you vomit.....but to be honest Rivea is the only seed that does not make me sick at *all*. mg/hbwer make me a sick, some more than others.. but rivea, has never made me even uncomfortable. which is why i only use rivea now.

has anyone here tried tehm and gotten effects with lower doses -30?

an interesting topic was brought up on another forum abtou fungi on the seeds and potency.

A study of rivea seeds ( and an ipomoea relative) showed that when seeds and or plants are treated with a fungicide (surface sterilized for the seeds) that the plants are rendered alkaloid negative.

A study could not find genes for ergoline alkaloid pathways in ipomoea species, but found such genes in an epibiotic fungus that grows on ipomoea and can be found on the seeds. (several endophytes were found as well but not indicated as the source of the ergoline alkaloids.)

I have a hunch that a lot of the inconsistancies surrounding ipomoea enthogens has to do with the epibiote.

Lysergol is worth investigating... likewise I believe the lysergic acid hydroxyethlamide is very interesting.

I read of highly active A/B extractions that started with ethanol and ended up with a freebase residue that was black light reactive and a potent visual psychedelic when ingested on the order of milligrams.

I read of numerous ipomoea species containing ergoline alkaloids, like I. nil, however they are on average about 10-20X weaker than I. violacea.

I wonder now about using the epibiota of one ipomoea species to innoculate others (maybe surface sterilize some seeds of nil and then soak them for germination with some tricolor) Also it stands to reason that cultivation practices that are to maximize alkaloid content are those that are epibiote friendly.

[ljfe]

SWIM agrees, these seeds rarely make him feel any sickness. Only when he consumed 180 he was starting to taste the seeds coming up as he chewed the last 20. Anything from 30 to 150 makes SWIM feel great.

[malbulja]

SWIM just took 20 Rivea seeds last Friday and was disappointed when nothing happened at all so he took the remaining 80 on Saturday morning. SWIM tells me that this was the single best LSA experience he's had and plans on doing 350mg of Mescaline (San Pedro Cacti) this weekend after such a great psychedelic experience last weekend.

[Kada]

thats great they worked good!

2 people voted 1-10 seeds, any comments? i would love to read how 1-10 worked for you!!!

[ljfe]

SWIM is sure that a low-medium ololiuqui dose from an online vendor is 60. A trip is about 90.
When people hear about a dose being 20-30, they were probably potent and used in a shamanic environment.
"Osmond found 60-100 seeds Turbina corymbosa seeds to be an active dose, though he chewed and ingested the whole seeds, rather than making a cold water infusion of ground seeds"
Enjoy

[splish6]

SWIM did a water extraction (distilled water, with fresh lemon juice added, in water for 6 hours) with 20 seeds last night, no effects. SWIM is pretty sure he did things right, and is definitely going to up the dose next time. But do the SWIYs really recommend chewing em? Has anyone ever thrown up after eating Rivea seeds?

[malbulja]

A few weeks ago SWIM did a water extraction on 110 seeds and got very minimal effects after 4 hours so he dug up the coffee filter from the trash and physically ate the mush. This made SWIM trip hard.

[ljfe]

SWIM chews up rivea and chases them with orange juice or something tasty pretty often. This way he gets some sublingual obsorbtion combined with all the mush in his stomach. He suggests chewing up to 10 at a time and finishing at least 90 in 20minutes. They'd be sure to start triping face in an hour with no sickness, even at amounts like 150. Pupil dilation should last about 6hs.

[ljfe]

SWIM chewed and consumed 130 ololiuqui with 4 tabs of acid. A few hours later he tried eating another 60 seeds and puked everything up at 50. Then he decided to eat another tab of L. Don't try eating more than 180 ><

[splish6]

Last night, SWIM chewed and ate 50 seeds. They definitely didn't taste as bad as the CWE extraction, just a little bitter. He got a really nice mood lift, and his Prozac withdrawal symptoms disappeared (specifically the "electric shock" feeling when moving your eyes quickly). No hallucinations though, SWIM will try a higher dose soon.
And also, absolutely no nausea!


Update:

SWIM did his second try with the Ololuiqui seeds a while ago. Chewed and ate 82 seeds (same batch as above post). Didn't get shit, except some nausea. SWIM is giving up and would rather wait for some real acid instead of trying with this unpredictable crap.

[malbulja]

Of course this is entirely unscientific analysis but SWIM has spent a lot of time with Ololuiqui and he is convinced that Ololuiqui cancels itself out within two weeks or so. SWIM noticed that he tripped nuts on 80 seeds and regardless of the amount of seeds consumed within a 2 week period following the trip no effects were generated at all.

However, if SWIY can be patient and do no LSA containing botanicals for 3-4 weeks (one or 2 months is ideal) then he will be GREATLY rewarded for that patience with an incredible experience.

SWIM must recommend that it's not worth anyone's time to do less than 75 seeds. SWIM recommends 80-120 even for beginners because of the immunity effect described above.