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  #1  
Old 19-03-2011, 00:46
crazytexan crazytexan is offline
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Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

Some one posted a great picture of what a hypodermic needle looks like after multiple uses. SWIM wanted to show his friends want it looks like. Does anyone have the link
  #2  
Old 20-03-2011, 00:06
jrg28 jrg28 is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

My cat Bob could not find the picture on here so he went looking and found this, hope its ok for swim. Just click to make bigger!

usedneedle.jpg

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You beat me to it. Good job.
Thanks for sharing, this could save a lot of veins!
  #3  
Old 20-03-2011, 00:46
Herbal Healer 019 Herbal Healer 019 is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

I just can't see how stainless steal could be damaged that much by skin after 6 uses

I don't buy it. I think the advisories against reusing single use hypodermic needles are over stated as long as a tournequette is used (stretches the skin minimising skin tearing), the needle is sterilised everytime, & alcohol is swabbed over the injection site prior to injection to aid insertion damage should be minimal.

also I think that pic is also overstated in regards to needle wear in an effort to increase sales on behalf of the companies producing them in the diabetic community.

of course i'm merely speculating here, but SWIM has used the same needle time and time again in certain situations without problem (rotating sites everytime of course).

I could be wrong though; it may be terrible for your veins to reuse a one use needle more than once

Last edited by Herbal Healer 019; 20-03-2011 at 00:54.
  #4  
Old 20-03-2011, 14:27
jrg28 jrg28 is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

Bob agrees. When he used to use he would use a needle on average 7 to 8 times. Some more and some less. Bob could most definitely notice the difference between 1st use to 6th use. But after that he does not know. It obviously gets duller but once it starts to dull it gets harder to tell the difference. The steel is quite thin at the end and if you slightly catch the tip then generally you would have to swap works.

If Bob new that the tip looked like that after 6 uses then he thinks that he probably would of made more of an effort to obtain fresh packs of hypos

Anything that promotes the safe use of hypodermics whether propaganda or not has got to be a good thing.

Do you have to purchase these for use in diabetes? If Bob had to he would just go to the local chemist (UK) or needle exchange and get them, diabetic or not.
  #5  
Old 20-03-2011, 16:47
LadyGrinningSoul LadyGrinningSoul is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

My imaginary friend has been diabetic for 24 years, since a toddler. they have reused needles at times and can see how a needle can become that damaged. It is incredibly difficult for them to reuse a needle after having used several times, it feels almost blunt upon use. This will certainly put my imaginary friend off doing that. For them its that they can become lazy and don't always change the needle, or have simply run out.
  #6  
Old 20-03-2011, 17:05
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

This is fucked up people.

CLEANS EVERYTIME. They do end up like that. Swims friend has shot enough dope to know. The first shot goes in nice smooth. The second is still smooth but can already feel the dullness. The third was usually the last time swim would use it as by this point it would already feel like its popping a little bit more than he'd like.

Aroudn 5-6 it would begin to pop and if looked at closely, alot of times ya can see that barb formed. This will start to fuck up the veins big time.

One thing that really keeps the tip from barbing is to not touch the tip AT ALL to the cooker when sucking up the liquid. This will wear it down quick. He had a friend that always pushed the tip into the cooker for some reason and his needles were shit. He also liked to use it more than should be, and had a nice big hole in his arm.

But ya 5-6 times will definitely make it look like that for sure. Of course some times it will be less or more, but thats definitely a reasonable look.

Swims friend used cleans everytime and has nice "road map" type veins to show for it. His veins were already popped out though so nothing new. But he never fucked anything up.

Peace

Last edited by Ghetto_Chem; 20-03-2011 at 17:11.
  #7  
Old 20-03-2011, 17:05
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

You can tell the difference between the first & second usage of an insulin syringe...nevermind the difference between the 1st & 6th use!

Not to mention, just because a needle's used "once", doesn't mean it's only punctured the skin once. Depending on many various factors, a needle/syringe used for one session/hit could be inserted/break the skin 10 times or more; I wouldn't want to reuse that needle for my next hit if I could help it!

Yes, there is THAT much damage THAT quick - the needle & in particular the bevel of the needle, are EXTREMELY thin & thus fragile. It is well worth the effort to use a new needle every chance one gets; thank goodness for needle exchanges/syringe access programs! I can't believe how long it took for Massachusetts to get with the fucking program & make syringes available OTC to anyone over 18 - and thankfully, they're very inexpensive & accessible as well.

It's no exaggeration - get (access to) a microscope & check for yourself.

~Kailey
  #8  
Old 20-03-2011, 20:17
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbal Healer 019 View Post
I just can't see how stainless steal could be damaged that much by skin after 6 uses

I don't buy it. I think the advisories against reusing single use hypodermic needles are over stated as long as a tournequette is used (stretches the skin minimising skin tearing), the needle is sterilised everytime, & alcohol is swabbed over the injection site prior to injection to aid insertion damage should be minimal.

also I think that pic is also overstated in regards to needle wear in an effort to increase sales on behalf of the companies producing them in the diabetic community.

of course i'm merely speculating here, but SWIM has used the same needle time and time again in certain situations without problem (rotating sites everytime of course).

I could be wrong though; it may be terrible for your veins to reuse a one use needle more than once
Swim once thought like you - and subsequently lost a hell of alot of veins which would otherwise be useable.

Think about steel knives in a restaurant - everytime a chef will use them, he'll sharpen them, as ANY contact, with ANYthing, dulls the blade.

Surely swiy must have noticed how upon first use of a new needle, even if it's quite a large gauge, he can barely feel it going in - after six more uses, can he honestly tell me he doesn't feel the resistance of his skin to the dull point before it finally tears it's way through the skin, flesh and vein wall - the most delicate thing, and the thing which is most damaged by dull needles.
You must remember, the human eye can't even see the tip of a 29G insulin syringe (when fresh) - the point is that fine. Simply brusing the pin against piece of paper lightly would dull the blade it's that small.

Honestly, swim has destroyed almost all of his 'easy' access veins - and a hell of alot of it was due to periods of using needles more than once - forget the bacteria risk, just purely down to the blunt needles which no longer left a small, concise exit wound, but now left a jagged-edged torn-out exit wound.


When looking at these pictures, you must remember they are considerably magnified - but you must also remember just how delicate not your skin is, but you veins are, and just how much more damage a 'ripping' exit wound causes, as opposed to a small, straight edged exit wound. Think about which will heal quicker.

Swim's not saying any of this too try and have a go at anybody - he's seen this picture loads, it's been splattered across UK exchanges for years, - he's literally only saying this so that people don't realise they have to engage in safe injecting practice after the damage has been done - like swim has had to do. In other words, he's trying to help.

Please do remember you veins are such such delicate things - they're not meant to be punctured at all, let alone 3 times a day with an unsterile, blunt syringe, which tears it's way in and rips it's way out, drastically increasing healing time.

And to the person who said he thought this was propaganda or something similar - what possible agenda would organisations like the harm reduction allliance have for 'tricking users'???
And if possible, don't use a tourniquet - only use them if you need to, otherwise they're simply applying more stress to (if you're an IV drug user, an already stressed vein. Plus there's the whole problem of releasing the tourniquet after registering but before injecting - which can be very difficult for alot of users, and injecting with the tourniquet still applied is literally pushing your veins to the max - big, relatively healthy veins can take it, - smaller or more used ones simply can't, and will collapse or burst as a result. Gone forever then.

And swabbing alcohol has got nothing to do with preventing insertion damage of the needle - it's just to prevent bacteria and other nasties that exist on the surface of the skin being introduced into the body in areas where there aren't specific defenses for that (like the mount, nose, etc.

Again, this isn't crucial for someone who injects very occasionally - but to addicts, along with rotating injection sites from as early a point as possible, - these are the 2 most important things in keeping veins healthy, and suspending the time before you find yourself in a pool of blood, an hour in, withdrawing, and still unable to find a vein.
Take care of your veins as early as possible..................EVERYONE wishes they had...........

And this isn't aimed at the quoter - it's aimed at everyone who injects ANYTHING!

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Great post that explains the dangerrs

Last edited by mickey_bee; 20-03-2011 at 20:32.
  #9  
Old 20-03-2011, 20:46
Descartesx Descartesx is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

My fox is interested to know the source of this picture. Bearing in mind some needles are used IM and some IV. The fox could see how the damage could be done to this needle in the case of IM injection but for IV?
  #10  
Old 20-03-2011, 20:59
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Descartesx View Post
My fox is interested to know the source of this picture. Bearing in mind some needles are used IM and some IV. The fox could see how the damage could be done to this needle in the case of IM injection but for IV?
As far as swim knows, the source of this picture is from the UK-based exchange supplies company, search for 'exchange supplies' and you'll find their site easily.
They do loads of work including introducing products specifically for IV drug users, like the worlds first syringe designed specifically for drugs users - the nevershare syringe, they also have booklets on everything from what water to use (and not use) to femoral injecting - all available to read on the site.

The company if it can be called that, as they hand out so much stuff for free, was started by two individuals who saw how little resources and study was going into what's actually given out at exchanges, They provide and sell to both exchanges and individuals.

If one bears in mind just how fine the tip of a regular 29G syringe is, then it's easy to see how after six uses it can be dramatically blunted - and again, remember these are magnified pics!

The aim of exchange supplies is to provide drugs users, particularly IV drug users with information that could potentially save their lives, and products that will keep them healthier for longer - so if and when they do recover, they can give back to the world.

it's a great site : www.exchangesupplies.org check it out!
  #11  
Old 21-03-2011, 00:32
BumpBump BumpBump is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

swim finds when he re-uses needles which is quite often. He gets localised inflamation round the injection site, and this can turn into a small blister/spot and lead to scarring.

Swim has eczema so he always keeps hydrocortisone in the house. This can reduce these spots quite quick and get your injecting sores on the road to recovery fairly fast.

Obviously this wont help in the damage your doing to your veins.
  #12  
Old 25-03-2011, 21:25
swim87istanbul swim87istanbul is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

My turtle injects once binge a week. On the last session (2 weeks ago) he used the same gear about 4-5 times. He uses it subcutaneously. Even without an IV injection, he has a bad bruise on his shoulder. (like a strong punch has hit him on the spot) So for IV, he thinks that reusing neddles would be a very very bad thing to do.
  #13  
Old 08-04-2011, 04:35
neversummer neversummer is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

syringes are incredibly cheap, especially when buying 500+ find an online vendor and they package shows up right at your door, or if there legal to buy in your state or country just go to the pharmacy.Dont poke twice with same needle, save your veins.
  #14  
Old 16-04-2011, 17:38
jon-q Gold member jon-q is offline
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Re: Reuse of hypodermic needle pictures?

Reusing needles used to be a necessity for people with Diabetes and IV drug users per say, as a former injector myself i have to admit that reusing needles was pretty much the norm, i can even confess to sharpening the tip of needles with sandpaper in an attempt at keeping them sharp, this sharpening procedure was something many Diabetics and drug users of a certain age will, I think remember.

I should point out (no pun intended) that this practice, at least in my case, occurred in the mid 1990’s, back then needles were much harder to acquire, especially the thinner ones (27-28g) it’s also worth remembering that health concerns and general good – safe injecting practices were far less talked about in this period.
I guess the first real sea change happened in the mid to late 80’s when AIDS began to sweep across the UK, at this point the government and health chiefs had to except that new strategies were needed and had to be implemented regards all injecting drug users. Things did slowly change and from small acorns big oak trees have eventually blossomed.

So I guess we can excuse the re using of needles by an uneducated, didn’t know better cast-over from a bygone era, can’t we? What we shouldn’t excuse is anybody in 2011 re using needles, if the people doing this practice need educating then let us try and educate them.

As many posters have already pointed out acquiring needles in today’s almost IV friendly society is relatively inexpensive and more importantly a fairly easy practice, that is of course if one puts in a little time and effort. This removes the problems of availability for most people.

I have said above that some injecting drug users of bygone eras regularly re used needles, I should probably explain to anybody that reads this and thinks, if it was ok for them, then its ok for me, of some fairly important changes in needle dynamics over the last 15yrs or so.
Needle gauges have in general become higher, 29g 30g and 31g are a fairly standard size used by most IV Heroin users and diabetics alike, not only does this mean that the overall thickness of these needles is much thinner than they were in the past, it also crucially means that the wall thickness of these needles have become much thinner to allow the contents of the syringe to pass through them without the need for unnecessary force, this results in ultra fine needle tips.

Needle Thicknesses in mm.

Gauge Outer Diameter Wall Thickness
24 .559 .133
25 .508 .133
30 .305 .076
31 .254 .063

The tip thickness reduces even further after a three way bevel is ground at an angle of around 20 degrees on both sides of the tip and finally across the top.

Still not convinced?

Three studies carried out in the late ninety’s looked at the strange practice of diabetics re using insulin pen needles, these pens were fitted with 29g 30g and 31g needles. What they discovered was quite shocking, here are a few excerpts.

Microscopy Findings

In three studies on reuse conducted at the Klinik Hellbachtal in Germany in 1997 patients were asked to save their pen needles and lancets after use, and label them with the number of times they had been used. Electron micrographs were taken at the University of Grenoble, France, during 1997 by Dr. Jacques Garden of pen needles and lancets that had been used by patients, according to their own normal reuse patterns in the treatment of their diabetes. The needles were then photographed under microscopic powers ranging from 370x to 5000x.The observers noted the following:

• Significant tip damage can occur after only one injection and was seen with all manufacturers studied.

• The majority of needles and lancets showed tip damage when reused, despite the fact that pen needles only penetrate human skin with each use, not a vial stopper.

• Some needles were actually missing their tips — raising the question of whether the tips might be imbedded in the patient’s skin.

• Tip damage did not always increase proportionately with the number of times the needle was used. There were patients whose needles remained in good condition with repeated use. Therefore, skin type and injection technique may play roles in the degree of needle tip damage after use. In actual practice though, all reuse must be discouraged, as the damage occurs to such a small area of the needle tip that it cannot be detected without a high powered electron microscope — even where the needle tip has broken off.

1. Tissue micro-trauma: When a deformed needle is used, it lacerates tissue, causing micro-trauma. This can result in locally significant bruising and bleeding. Volunteers in the German studies who reused lancets were found to have more residual bleeding in sites where a more heavily reused lancet was employed for the bloodletting.

2. Embedded needle tips: The studies showed that excessive reuse (>7 times/needle) was often associated with a breaking off of the microscopic end of the needle tip. The medical consequence of embedded metal tips is unknown at this time.

**************

Be sensible peeps, you know it makes sence.

Q

Source:

Look, D, K Strauss: Reuse of sharps in diabetic patients: is it completely safe? Diabetes Journal 10: 31-34 (1998)

Pics and interesting PDF file.

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Really good information and a great associated reference
Very helpful & informative; thanks for finding the article/study
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File Type: jpg tumblr_lb5bzh9nvD1qc53t4o1_500.jpg (66.2 KB, 17 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf resource.pdf (289.4 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by jon-q; 16-04-2011 at 17:44.

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