Experiences - Mirtazepine works wonders!!!

[a4stringedwonder]

Just a little something I discovered that has turned out to be very helpfull

anyone who has used coke heavily before knows that horrible feeling of coming down after a day(s) of heavy cocaine use. I personally find that most of the time the comedown after a full day or many days of coke isnt worth it. I have tried many things from lorazepam to xanax to ease the comedown, in hope of getting some sleep... Most all of them definately eased the comedown by LESSENING the paranoia. None of them were able to get me to sleep.

Recently i was prescribed Remeron (mirtrazapine) to help me sleep and lessen the irritability brought on by my 60mg dose of adderall daily. It worked well for exactly that.

So... i figured that if Remeron is effective at helping me sleep after the stimulating effects of a high dose of adderall and at the same time lessen the irratibility... then i wonder if it will work as well helping me sleep after another stimulant (cocaine).

So one night, after a full day of coke, i took 30mg of remeron about 30 minutes after my last line.

i lie down in bed, turn off the lights (this is right after i come down after my last line), and im asleep within 30 minutes!!!

I personally suggest using mirtrazapine (if you have a prescription) to aid in the come down of coke or another stimulant.

[Nagognog2]

And I strongly suggest that you read the rules and avoid sel-incrimination. No need to indict yourself. Use the search engine above and type SWIM.

[Psych0naut]

SWIM used remeron as well to get to sleep, the nice thing about it is that it works fast and won't make SWIM tired and dull the next morning

[thatsall]

I was perscirbed remeron for depression and anxiety. It didnt work well for me because i was jsut zombified. BUt as far as for going to sleep it was queen majestic. It works awesome, and also i would like to add that at this point in my life i was having some sever insomnia. I no longer take it but when i did i also took 30mg of extended release adderall. Like he said it completely calms you down and also helps your appetite. Swim also knows it works well to use it for coke comedown/sleep aid. One thing i disagree with is that you dont feel dull the next day. I felt almost copmpletey drained and empty. Very sluggish and zombie like. But like they say it affetcs all differently.

[Micklemouse]

Why is this in the antipsychotic forum? Mirtazepine is an antidepressant...

Reputation Comments on this post:

graet pic in your sig

[Jatelka]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

Why is this in the antipsychotic forum? Mirtazepine is an antidepressant...

Whoops: frenzy of tidying late last night! Sorted.

She also realises it's a Noradrenergic/Specific Serotonergic Agent but thought it fitted OK in SSRI's

Reputation Comments on this post:

Old post, but it is not an SNRI, it's a NASSA, and doesn't do any RI

[bewilderment]

Yeah, I was prescribed Remeron for insomnia as well whilst I was also on Paxil. I attribute most of the flattened affect during that time period to Paxil, but I believe Remeron played a role. It also made me gain about 20 pounds (I've heard from others about this side effect that my shrink neglected to mention, thanks doc), but I was on a rather large dosage (I can't recall now how much I was on, but I remember that it was high up on the scale, may have been the highest dosage...this was after I had worked my way up, of course). However, Remeron worked like a charm for insomnia. It knocked me right out although it usually left me feeling a bit drowsy in the morning, but that's just me. There's a bit of a tolerance factor, but it's not too bad especially in comparison to benzodiazipines.

[astenu]

remeron is great for sleep and anxiety but it strips away your cognitive abilities the following day. after a few weeks of continued use your body will likely adapt to the zombified effect at 15mg(bare minimum dose)

[yamman13]

How does it take for the effects to kick in im 80 kilos, was 30
mg?

[bob_arctor]

SWIM was prescribed mertazepine for depression and sleep disorder after going through some SSRI's. Experience was that it was not effective against depression in this case. Initially it helped falling asleep, but after 5 days such effects faded out.

On a side note: this was SWIMs clearest experience of sideeffect of gaining weight (remeron apparently enabled "continously hungry"-mode") - 12 kg in a week! After cessation those extra kgs were gone within two weeks. Felt very strange.

[Pino]

Swim hasn't good experiences with remeron. They aren't really bad. Swim tried it a couple of times, they helped a lot with sleeping, but the next day he still felt sleepy. Not only the morning but the whole day. Swim didn't used it, when on a prescription. He got them from a friend to help him sleep well in a stressy period.

[Zaprenz]

mirtazapine antagonises presynaptic alpha 2 adrenergic receptors - indirectly increasing 5-HT and Noradrenaline (Norepinephrine).

It's blocking at the 5-HT and NA re-uptake site is probably very minimal in terms of it's mode of action.

It also has potent antagonism at histamine receptors which certainly adds to the sedation. +blocks 5HT2/3

Gives a wonderfull 12 hours of sleep, unfortunately daytime effects can be quite rough. SWIM would agree "feeling like a zombie" is probably the best way to describe it the one time they ingested it.

[Mirtazapine in the treatment of cocaine-dependence in patients with methadone]
[Article in Spanish]

Zueco Perez PL
Centro de Atención Integral a Drogodependientes (CAID) San Blas. Madrid. Spain.
OBJECTIVE: To evaluate efficacy, interactions and adherence to treatment in cocaine-dependent patients (according to DSM- IV criteria). Its impact on reducing/quitting both cocaine and especially benzodiazepines (BZP) is of a great concern. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Thirty-one patients with an average age of 35 years, mean methadone dose of 155 mg/day and an average staying time on MMP of 21 months started treatment with MTZ, 60 mg/day as a single dose. One patient had to take 90 mg/day. One patient was excluded because of poor performance in the methadone maintenance program (MMP). In the pre-treatment evaluation, 22% of the patients did not use BZP and 40% used only cocaine. Sixty three percent used cocaine in higher dose than 0.5 g/day. (Range: 0.5-2 g). Abusive alcohol drinkers or patients with severe organic or psychiatric impairment were discarded. RESULTS: MTZ is well tolerated and its adverse effects are welcome in this kind of patients. Adherence to treatment was quite good for these reasons and because MTZ has a short latency time. No dose adjustments or interactions with other prescriptions (e.g., HAART), were shown. Hamilton-17, GCI, stress and craving scales were employed. Drug use was monitored with enzyme immune assay. At the end of the study, seven patients (23%) managed to quit cocaine. No BZP use was reported in 20 patients (80%). CONCLUSION: MTZ has shown good results in ceasing street BZP abuse, as well as reducing cocaine abuse though in the minor abusers. Treatment adherence was quite good and no evidence of interactions with drug-related treatments was reported.
PMID: 12487943 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[bob_arctor]

Interesting. I am not surprised that the sedative effects of mirtazepine wears of pretty quickly then, if it exerts antagonism at the histamine receptors. Fascinating.

[Pino]

At higher dosages (around 90 mg), the sleepiness will leave. But swim got there minor OEV and medium CEV for in the place during the day. He still has two left. But swim doesn't see this as a fun drug. Great for sleeping half a day.

[kareena]

SWIM has to agree with a number of the points made in this thread: SWIM once used mirtazapine for a while when depressed and anxious but specifically for insomnia. Although the anti-insomnia effects waned after a while it was always pretty effective for that, definately not so much for the former two. Completely zombified for a while after intiating use, this kind of waned too with time, although maybe SWIM just got used to it. SWIM expects it's a great come down drug as the OP stated, if used sparingly and when not contraindicated.

Mirtazapine works for a while,then some people build a tolerance to it and either increase their dose or try something else.

[Solinari]

I get mirtazapine prescribed as well, it has definitely made me gain weight which probably wasn't a bad thing since size 32 jeans were too big for me at the time. Now it is getting to be a little too much around the ol' waist area.

As for the sedative effects, they have pretty much worn off for me but it does help as well as some prescribed temazepam, but the short half life of the temazepam doesn't allow me to stay asleep. I also think the mirtazapine is causing my extremely vivid dreams and sleep paralysis as well as the odd "false awakenings". The so called false awakenings are the worst, well i suppose they are sort of false awakening i dream that i am awake and blackout in my dream only to wake up in another dream. It's hard to explain, the horrible thing is, when it happens it seems to be an almost sinister presence that is doing this to me on purpose. Then i can suddenly come out of it, very sudden, like sleep paralysis as well (which can also make you think there is a "sinister presence" in your room doing this to you on purpose).

Anyway, i would not be happy about an increase in dosage, so i will probably resist that, and i don't find them particularly useful as an anxiolytic.

[MrMouse]

Originally Posted by Solinari

I also think the mirtazapine is causing my extremely vivid dreams.

Anecdotally speaking I agree.
My pet chimp took 7.5mg per night for 4 weeks which worked well initially for insomnia and weight gain. No discernable change in mood except a slight shortening of anger threshold. On continuation of the experiment at the same dose drifting off to sleep became far more difficult to achieve with waking vivid dreams an almost nightly occurance. It should be noted that even after extensive (work related) physical excercise (8 hrs p/d) sleep was far more difficult to achieve than prior to the experiment and average nightly sleep reduced to 3-5 hrs and this remains true. However curiously fatigue has not been noted.

[welshmick]

Originally Posted by MrMouse

Anecdotally speaking I agree.
My pet chimp took 7.5mg per night for 4 weeks which worked well initially for insomnia and weight gain. No discernable change in mood except a slight shortening of anger threshold. On continuation of the experiment at the same dose drifting off to sleep became far more difficult to achieve with waking vivid dreams an almost nightly occurance. It should be noted that even after extensive (work related) physical excercise (8 hrs p/d) sleep was far more difficult to achieve than prior to the experiment and average nightly sleep reduced to 3-5 hrs and this remains true. However curiously fatigue has not been noted.

My mouse taking 15 mg per night - last night dreams were
horrible.

It Gave up at 3:30 AM - But felt distressed & restless

[Abider]

SWIM got this stuff for 4 weeks..
but more than getting him to sleep ?

Compare it to Triziclics like amitryptiline and it will lose...
its just the "safe" alternative to all the fuckin docs in psychiatry !

[baron samedi]

This has been quite a disturbing thread for SWIM. He's on 50mg Paroxetine, 5mg Olanzapine, 15mg Zopiclone and 45mg Methadone. On occasion he adds 10-15mg Diazepam into the mix.
Anyway, his doc recently told him to consider taking Mirtazepine, as a booster for his Paroxetine and an alternative to his Zopiclone. He was told it causes voracious appetite, which worried him as he's trying to lose weight (another stone and a half and he'd be satisfied). ATM his Methadone is helping him lose weight as he's not particularly interested in food and can often go a whole day with only a bowl of cereal, a bit of fruit or a smoothie. Maybe Mirtazapine would not affect him in this way with the methadone as a factor.
He also has a problem quite often with vivid dreams/nightmares and struggling to get up in the morning, already. Motivation and lack of interest/pleasure are also a problem.
The question is will Mirtazapine increase or make these problems worse, and will it actually help his depression, anxiety and anhedonia (lack of pleasure in life)? Reading this thread seems to indicate that it could well have a negative effect. On the other hand, someone mentions that it's a very effective anti-depressant. What's the truth? Will Mirtazapine actually help SWIM with the three things he mentions above, or will it cause problems (weight gain, nightmares, zombiefication) instead? Can anyone be of help?

[bob_arctor]

solinari: perhaps it is something related to this phenomenon? - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_terror

[Solinari]

I hadn't considered Night Terrors before, some parts of the article seem to fit but as far as i know i always remember what happened. I think it might have an element of sleep paralysis, false awakenings/night terrors and lucid dreaming.

As i said my dreams are very vivid and i can recall my dreams very well. More often than not i work out i am dreaming using a 'reality test' where i hold my nose in my dream and if i can still breath through it, then i know i am dreaming. Despite being aware that i am dreaming i can rarely control the dreams and i have only had full lucidity a couple of times, even then the only thing i could do was fly, but the context and characters of my dreams is something i couldn't control. Or when i realise i am dreaming i begin to wake up, in fact i have told the characters in my dreams that i know this is a dream and that you're not real, then i can feel myself sort of blacking out in my dream and i wake up.

It's when i sort of black out and wake up in a dream that the horrible stuff happens. That's when the sinister element can start when it seems there is either some one in my room (can even be a big spider on my covers even although i probably have my eyes closed), or it's just some thing deliberately preventing me from waking up and toying with me to its amusement.

Hard not to type a lot about what happens because it can vary a lot and different things can happen.

[Junkhead23]

Originally Posted by Solinari

I hadn't considered Night Terrors before, some parts of the article seem to fit but as far as i know i always remember what happened. I think it might have an element of sleep paralysis, false awakenings/night terrors and lucid dreaming.

As i said my dreams are very vivid and i can recall my dreams very well. More often than not i work out i am dreaming using a 'reality test' where i hold my nose in my dream and if i can still breath through it, then i know i am dreaming. Despite being aware that i am dreaming i can rarely control the dreams and i have only had full lucidity a couple of times, even then the only thing i could do was fly, but the context and characters of my dreams is something i couldn't control. Or when i realise i am dreaming i begin to wake up, in fact i have told the characters in my dreams that i know this is a dream and that you're not real, then i can feel myself sort of blacking out in my dream and i wake up.

It's when i sort of black out and wake up in a dream that the horrible stuff happens. That's when the sinister element can start when it seems there is either some one in my room (can even be a big spider on my covers even although i probably have my eyes closed), or it's just some thing deliberately preventing me from waking up and toying with me to its amusement.

Hard not to type a lot about what happens because it can vary a lot and different things can happen.

Solinari exact same thing happened with me and mirtazapine. Horrible horrible dreams and paralysis. So I stopped taking them.

I kept dreaming about my step dad choking me and hitting me. Most weird of all is it was in my old house too. Weird!!

[baron samedi]

SWIM starts taking Mirtazapine tonight. The experiences with bad dreams is worrying SWIM, as it has been a problem for him ever since he gave up cannabis over a year ago. Could be because he takes Olanzapine at night which has a delirious edge to it (in SWIM's opinion), but he was doing so when smoking cannabis every night without such problems. After a nightmarish, trippy dream SWIM finds it very hard to get out of bed for some reason, sort of in a scary half-awake half-asleep mode.
Fingers crossed that Mirtazapine makes things better rather than worse!