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Ethnobotanicals Psychedelic plants, Iboga, Calea, Blue lotus, Ephedra, Sinicuichi, Betel nut, etc.

 
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  #1  
Old 14-03-2011, 21:28
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

OILAHUASCA

Oilahuasca is a mix of psychedelic allylbenzene oils and enzyme inhibitors used to create a psychedelic experience. The allylbenzene oils themselves are often inactive, but when mixed with the proper enzyme inhibitors a psychedelic experience is possible. The word oilahuasca draws from the word ayahuasca which defines a mix of herbs in which DMT is made orally psychedelic by using enzyme inhibitors in much the same way as oilahuasca. The word oilahuasca was originally coined by 69Ron.

THE PSYCHEDELIC ALLYLBENZENES

The main key ingredients in oilahuasca are the psychedelic allylbenzenes myristicin, elemicin, safrole, and methyl chavicol. Others are possibly active but have not been tested. The corresponding propenylbenzenes like anethole, isoelemicin, etc., are probably not active, or very weak. Tests done using anethole did not find it active at doses which are active for methyl chavicol, itís allylbenzene form.

Myristicin is mostly known as the main active in nutmeg oil, however it occurs in much greater quantities in Hungarian parsley seed oil. Myristicin produces a psychedelic effect thatís like a mix of MDMA and mescaline when properly activated. Itís quite speedy however. Myisticin is primarily inactivated by P450 enzymes CYP1A2 and CYP3A4. The P450 enzyme CYP2D6 might be critical to getting good effects from myristicin.

Elemicin is found in elemi oil, and nutmeg. This is more difficult to get working than myristicin. When activated properly, it produces effects like those of mescaline. When not activated properly it produces mild sedative effects like those of melatonin, which is not at all psychedelic. Elemicin is mostly inactivated by conversion to 1-hydroxy-elemicin. Itís unknown exactly which P450 enzymes do this, but itís highly likely that CYP1A1, CYP1B1, CYP1A2, CYP2A6, CYP2C9, and CYP2E1 can all cause 1-hydroxy-elemicin to form. CYP2D6 might be needed for psychedelic activity.

Safrole is found mainly in sassafras oil but is also found in nutmeg in much smaller amounts, but enough to affect the nutmeg trip. When activated, this produces effects similar to MDMA. Itís not very visual; itís more of an empathogen than a psychedelic. When not properly activated it produces a mild sedative effect thatís not psychedelic. The P450 enzymes CYP2A6, CYP2C9, and CYP2E1 primarily inactivate safrole by conversion to 1-hydroxy-safrole. CYP2D6 might be needed for psychedelic/empathogenic activity.

Methyl chavicol is found in sweet basil oil. When properly activated this produces an electric LSD-like psychedelic effect. Itís a great mood enhancer, aphrodisiac, and also produces some visual effects. When not properly activated this produces a sedative effect thatís almost like marijuana, but not at all psychedelic. The P450 enzymes CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 cause the inactive 1-hydroxy-methyl chavicol to form. Itís possible that CYP2D6 is needed for psychedelic activity.

While some of the oils are known to be inactivated by certain P450 enzymes, primarily by 1-hydroxylation, in many cases if the primarily P450 enzymes are inhibited, other P450 enzymes will take their place. This means that more than just the primary P450 enzymes should be inhibited.

Methyl chavicol and myristicin seem to be much easier to activate than elemicin or safrole. Often myristicin is active on itís own.

Of the main oils, nutmeg oil is usually the most active on its own without taking other oilahuasca enzyme inhibitors. The reason for this is not entirely known however nutmeg oil does sometimes contain substantial amounts of its own P450 inhibitors. Also myristicin itself is often active without inhibitors.

Basil oil is the least active on itís own, often producing no psychedelic effects at all, but is also the easiest to activate.

Sassafras oil sometimes works on itís own in some people, but this is rare.

Elemi oil sometimes works on itís own.

OILAHUASCA P450 ENZYME INHIBITORS

The psychedelic allylbenzene essential oils safrole, elemicin, methyl chavicol, and myristicin are all attacked by P450 enzymes, in many cases this renders these oils completely inactive. This is why some people cannot trip from nutmeg oil, elemi oil, basil oil, or sassafras oil. Of these three the most active taken on its own is usually nutmeg oil because it contains its own oilahuasca inhibitors in substantial amounts, while elemi oil, basil oil, and sassafras oil do not.

After extensive testing by AFOAF, heís come up with an oil mix that does a great job as an oilahuasca pre-dose inhibitor for safrole, elemicin, methyl chavicol, and myristicin, which will also probably work for the majority of the other potentially psychedelic allybenzene oils.

He uses 1-3 drops of clove leaf essential oil, 3-6 drops of German chamomile essential oil, and 5-10 drops of cinnamon bark essential oil. This is taken 30-60 minutes before taking the psychedelic oils, and for good measure once again along with the psychedelic oils. Itís best to take these pre-dose oilahuasca inhibitors in a capsule. In some sensitive individuals cinnamon can irritate the mouth. For AFOAF, cinnamon doesnít irritate his mouth, but even so, he takes these inhibitors in a capsule on an empty stomach, followed directly by a little food to help digest them.

Cinnamon bark oil takes care of CYP2A6 and CYP2E1 nicely, I donít know if it can knock out CYP2C9. Thatís where clove leaf comes in because it knocks out CYP2C9 very well along with CYP3A4, CYP1A1, and CYP1B1. Also German chamomile oil knocks out CYP1A2. By having CYP1A1, CYP1A2, CYP1B1, CYP2A6, CYP2C9, CYP2E1, and CYP3A4 inhibited while leaving CYP2D6 alone, you help ensure that these psychedelic oils are not inactivated orally.

The dosage needed for these inhibitors for each person is going to vary. Some people might need 2-3 times as much. Itís best to start on the low dosage end for these inhibitors and then up the dose a few drops at a time for each test until one finds their own specific dosage that works.

Failure to take enough inhibitors may cause the psychedelic oils to fail to elicit psychedelic effects.

OILAHUASCA ACTIVATION

Once the proper P450 ezymes are inhibited, it is still possible that the psychedelic oils will not work in some people.

There are at least two steps to the oilahuasca process. The first step is inhibiting the P450 enzymes that inactivate these oils. Getting these oils past the P450 enzymes is just half the problem. The next step is activation of these psychedelic oils by a currently unknown process within the human body. For some reason allylbenzenes can be activated, while propenylbenzenes do not seem to get activated, or require huge doses to become active. Why allylbenzenes work and propenylbenzenes dot not seem to work is a mystery. Itís been theorized that the allybenzenes can form amphetamines within the human body if they pass through the P450 enzymes unaltered. This has been found to occur in a few animal tests, but has been found not to occur in most animal tests. The other theory is that phenethylamines form. To this day however itís unknown what activates these oils in humans. Fortunately it is fairly well known what makes them inactive however, and thatís certain P450 enzymes.

To help activate these oils once they get past the P450 enzymes, a few tricks have been posted on various forums. One method some use is excessive exercise. Another rarely reported method is to take these oils with amphetamine. Yet another reported method is to take the oils with phenethylamine. Another is to take them with phenylalanine. These are not well tested and may not work for all people. How they work is not known. For AFOAF, these are not required. His body is able to activate these oils 100% of the time just as long as the proper oilahuasca P450 enzyme inhibitors are used prior to taking the psychedelic oils.

Itís possible that phenethylamine and phenylalanine taken orally with the oils are broken down and metabolites of these are used by the body to synthesize phenethylamines from these psychedelic oils once they get past the P450 enzymes. This is debated however.

Another possibility is that these tricks serve to increase metabolism, which in turn increases oxygen levels, and this might play a role in their activation. Again, this is unknown.

If the second piece of this puzzle can be solved, it may be possible for these oils to work in all people. They currently do not work in all people, even with the proper P450 enzymes inhibited.

ENHANCERS

Coffee seems to always enhance and help activate these oils if taken 30-60 beforehand. How this works is unknown.

Cayenne pepper, at 800 mg in a capsule, boosts the effects of these oils if taken AFTER the oils are taken. How this works is unknown.

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Very interesting information about activating psychedelic oils by enzyme inhibition. Dose and experience reports would be useful too at some point.
Nice write up
An impressive amount of work hasgone into these findings, what a truly astounding beginning to this discovery
Extremely interesting and innovative. Glad you're around, and I hope the ideas keep coming!
Amazing work, I always enjoy reading what you have to say on oils
Very informative, especially good to know ordinary inhibitors of p450
Very promising information, I hope this isn't the last we hear of your experiments!
Most information on psychedelic oils ever! Great read and easy to follow, thanks a lot!
Amazing, helps show nutmeg is NOT childish :)
That's really impressive ideas and technology
Utilizes a deep understanding of chemistry and metabolism to move forward into understanding these substances
  #2  
Old 15-03-2011, 05:25
Cindor Cindor is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

How much coffee is needed? Does instant coffee works?
Excellent work!
  #3  
Old 15-03-2011, 07:13
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Any coffee works. You don't need much, say 1 or 2 cups. The boost is not that much as you'd get from the inhibitor oils mentioned, but it makes a noticeable difference when used with them. If one is a coffee drinker, definitely use coffee to drink down the inhibitor oils in a capsule before taking the psychedelic oils. Follow that quickly with a piece of bread or something similar to stimulate digestion.

There's some controversy about whether or not coffee inhibits CYP1A2 or induces it. I can't seem to get clear cut facts on that. I've seen countless studies that say one or the other with solid tests to back up their findings.

I think the coffee boost is not CYP1A2 related. Even when taking 10 drops of German chamomile oil, which is way more than one would normally use to inhibit CYP1A2, the coffee still acts as a booster. I think it's another action the coffee is causing which is separate from it's action on CYP1A2 that's boosting the effects of these psychedelic oils.

Coffee is also known to boost the effects of mescaline. Mescaline is supposedly not affected by CYP1A2 like its close psychedelic oil relatives are, so coffee's ability to boost mescaline's effect should not be related to CYP1A2. It would be nice to know just how exactly coffee works to boost the effects of these oils, I'll bet it's something similar to how it works to boost the effects of mescaline.

If anyone knows how exactly coffee boosts the effects of mescaline I would love to hear the reason for it. Maybe it will help shed some light on how these psychedelic oils work. Maybe there's another herb that can do this better than coffee can.
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Old 15-03-2011, 10:38
Valseedian Valseedian is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

was waiting for this thread-

Following intently, havent read it yet, but I'll be back to expand my reply later.


OK- Ran through it and just have one thing to say-

When are we going to see food-grade psychedelics on the market with these concoctions. The oils are exceedingly easy to obtain, Most can be intended for human consumption (if not all GRAS...) and now there's a formula to follow..
it's only going to be a matter of time.

I can already see a somewhat well known vendor of these types of products start stocking 'inhibitor solution' with your ratios, while still offering the active essential oils.. the next step is obvious.

I mean- take it one step further- Start a new 'absinthe' company and start producing a liquor where 2-3 shots gets you lifted. since all the extracts are GRAS, you could easily get approved..

I just see this exploding. I've done some experimentation with un-inhibited -dmso extracted- elemi oil and was minorly impressed, but am really looking forward to these developments.


*plants some german chamomile and waits*

Ron- I understand the difficulties you could encounter when attempting to test your theories... especially those of time.. and was wondering if you had any theories you'd yet to test that another avid researcher might experiment with?

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don't post if you have nothing to say
Interesting speculation on possible grey-market products

Last edited by Valseedian; 15-03-2011 at 12:03.
  #5  
Old 16-03-2011, 00:16
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

An “absinthe” could be made using these and legally sold in many countries because these oils are all GRAS oils and legal to use as flavorings in most countries. However, limitations on the amounts of these oils that can be added to beverages do exist in many countries, included the USA. Even if you could put enough, the main problem is that this works like ayahuasca, but not as well, and for some people that means they need to take the enzyme inhibitors before taking the psychedelic oils. So packaging it all together in one drink is not going to work so well.

Think about ayahuasca. If one takes tetrahydroharmine or harmaline, or another MAO A enzyme inhibitor and takes the DMT at the same time, for a certain percentage of people that’s not going to work. For some people they need to take the DMT 30 minutes or so after taking the enzyme inhibitors. The time frame needed varies from person to person. Also the amount of the DMT and inhibitors needed also varies substantially from person to person.

In the Amazon when shamans distribute ayahuasca, the tetrahydroharmine, harmine, and harmaline MAO A enzyme inhibitors are all mixed together in one drink with the DMT. However the doses are small and people normally drink it 2 or more times, not just once. The first drink inhibits the enzymes and wastes the DMT for many people. It’s not until they have their second drink that the DMT takes effect and produces its effects. In this case though, the enzyme inhibitors themselves are somewhat psychedelic, so even if the DMT doesn’t take effect, the user will get a mild psychedelic effect from the inhibitors.

For oilahuasca, this kind of thing is not going to work well. If one mixed all the inhibitors with the psychedelic oils and drank it just 1 time, it’s possible that it will product anti-psychedelic effects. The 1-hydroxyl versions of most of these psychedelic oils are the problem. In most cases these 1-hydroxyl metabolites appear to be sedatives with anti-psychedelic effects. So if one then had another drink of the same mix say 30-60 minutes later when their enzymes are properly inhibited, they will also be experiencing the effects of the sedative 1-hydroxides, which will block a lot of the psychedelic effects of the non-1-hydroxides. This is a problem. The net result of this is a muted psychedelic effect that is not so nice. It’s like taking sedatives with psychedelics, they just don’t mix well.

Let me explain further. A 200 mg dose of elemicin in AFOAF when his enzymes are properly inhibited produces effects very much like mescaline, with visuals and all. Proper enzyme inhibition means that CYP1A1, CYP1A2, CYP1B1, CYP2A6, CYP2C9, CYP2E1, and CYP3A4 are inhibited while CYP2D6 is not. The psychedelic effects from the elemicin metabolite that forms in vivo in this case last about 6-8 hours. But the same 200 mg dose taken when the enzymes are not properly inhibited causes a sedating melatonin-like effect which is totally not psychedelic and has been found to be anti-psychedelic by AFOAF. This sedative effect is from the formation of the metabolite 1-hydroxy-elemicin by P450 enzymes. The effects of this metabolite last about 24 hours or so. If one takes more elemicin within the time frame that this sedative effect is present, even with proper enzyme inhibition, it will produce muted psychedelic effects. The visuals will be very weak, the euphoria will be hardly present, etc. The 1-hydroxy-elemicin metabolite pretty much blocks the effects of the psychedelic metabolite of elemicin. But fortunately, it is not cross tolerant with the psychedelic metabolite, so the following day elemicin can still produce psychedelic effects from its psychedelic metabolite, if it’s made in vivo.

For this reason you need two drinks, one “absinthe” that’s an inhibitor and another one that contains the psychedelic oils.



The main piece of this puzzle that’s missing is the knowledge of what exactly causes the active psychedelic metabolites to form from these psychedelic oils. For AFOAF, every single elemicin trip is slightly different, even when the exact same P450 inhibiting methods and doses are used. Sometimes the effect is weak. Sometimes it goes beyond what mescaline can do and is very impressive. Why?

If someone could help figure this part out it would be of great benefit to others.

Perhaps there exist supplements that can be taken which will help the body create the psychedelic metabolites of these allylbenzenes. I am again reminded of phenethylamine. This is an easy to get supplement legal throughout most of the world. AFOAF has not tried taking it with these oils, but I know of one person who swears that taking phenethylamine (PEA) with these oils makes them active.

One bit of information that’s possibly related to this is that when phenethylamine supplements are taken with coffee several people have noted that this helps activate the phenethylamine supplements if the coffee is taken as a pre-dose booster. Is this related to how coffee helps activate these psychedelic allylbenzene oils?
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Old 16-03-2011, 01:15
Valseedian Valseedian is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

ahh, That does pose a bit of a problem to the absynthe idea- tho, you could easily sell it as a 'complimentary flavor set of nips'.. where you're supposed to take each 'shot' every so often etc... that may or may not even get around the possible concentration issues for some countries..

I mean, even as a 'fertilizer regiment' it's a simplistic idea to just include instructions..

there'd be someone looking into the legal ramifications of calling them dietary or herbal supplements, or any number of things legitimately for consumption.



I plan on making a report on possible combinations of elemicin and phenethylamine/caffiene, and might add it to a 2c-e experience later to observe the differences.
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Old 16-03-2011, 02:04
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Hi 69ron just thought this may be worth mentioning, as this may be an easier to acquire source of phenylethylamine for some who wish to experiment to see if it makes a difference in the overall effect, but chocolate is supposedly a great source of phenylethylamine. So I was thinking if you made a hot chocolate (cooled down a bit as to not destroy any actives) using dark chocolate (contains the highest amount of PEA) and added your essential oils to that, you should be able to test the theory as well as making a drink that should work as a great carrier for the oils!

Hope this is of some help!
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Old 16-03-2011, 03:13
Raw-Beets Raw-Beets is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

It's interesting that you mention coffee as being an enhancer. Coffee contains appreciable amounts of MAO inhibiting beta-carbolines. I can't post links yet, but a quick google search should turn up some information.
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Old 23-04-2011, 17:38
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Well I tried the chamomile oil with the Elemi oil last night while drinking... And it worked. This is going to be interesting....
Light dose, for a big guy. About ten drops of each oil combined with moderate drinking...mixed together in a shot of vodka.
No visuals or any thought distortion. Good clean body high, mood elevation, euphoria, that peaked at three hours and lasted 7 hours all in all.
Worked much better then Elemi alone. Curious if the rapid tollerance developes.
I liked it and want to try more "oilahuasca" combos....

Dorge added 5 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

Well I tried the chamomile oil with the Elemi oil last night while drinking... And it worked. This is going to be interesting....
Light dose, for a big guy. About ten drops of each oil combined with moderate drinking...mixed together in a shot of vodka. Caffeinated energy drink was ingested there after.
No visuals or any thought distortion. Good clean body high, mood elevation, euphoria, that peaked at three hours and lasted 7 hours all in all.
Worked much better then Elemi alone. Curious if the rapid tollerance developes.
I liked it and want to try more "oilahuasca" combos....

I think that they can be combined and I think an absinthe like effect can be made.
I am curious if absinthe already is just a form of oilahuasca? Are there potential psychoactive effects from anise, calamus, and fennel and lemon balm and hyssop oils, and how do they synergise with Thujone? Interesting.
Would the distillation of chamomile into absinthe alter the effects? I am guessing yes!

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useful

Last edited by Dorge; 23-04-2011 at 17:38. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:51
Dorge Dorge is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

200mg of pure elmicin (elemi xtreme) was taken with a group of people with cocktails and blue chamomile oil.
Euphoria and the feeling of a slightly week dose of LSD was felt for 6 hours. Lots of good energy and empathy. Marijuana was said by some after six hours to increase the intoxicating effects dramatically to the point of severe inebriation amoung hardened dope fiends with high tolerance. The effects of Elmecin combined with chamomile oil is definitely a good psychoactive substance and quite enjoyable.
The effects of the Elemi oil alone and not the isolation of elmicin is also noticeably increased by blue chamomile oil according to afoaf...
Good interesting stuff!

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thanks for reporting of effects
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Old 01-05-2011, 19:31
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

This really has potential.

I have one thing to add however:
Piperine, the active chemical in green & black pepper where it appears in high concentrations (5-9% of dry weight). It inhibits CYP3A4, P-glycoprotein and is a competitive MAO-A (IC50: 21 microM) & MAO-B (IC50: 7 microM) inhibitor. [1]
It also induces CYP2D6, which could be of great help.

Quote:
Common name: Piperine
IUPAC name: 1-[5-(1,3-benzodioxol- 5-yl)-1-oxo-2,4-pentadienyl]piperidine
CAS number: 94-62-2

Molecular formula: C17H19NO3
Molar mass: 285.34 g/mol
Density: 1.193 g/cm3
Melting point: 130 įC, 403 K, 266 įF

[1] - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15997146
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:53
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

SWIM was wondering what type of psychedelic oils other swimmers are using. Are they pure oils, or off the shelf essential oils? SWIM's pet has basil essential oil and elemi essential oil and wonders:

1. Should these be treated with DMSO first, or can the oils be taken as is? What do other swimmers or there pets do?
2. Could basil essential oil be treated with DMSO as elemi essential oil can?

SWIM's pet Mr Doodle is putting on his lab coat this weekend for some experimentation. He read about the hot choco as a carrier and is very intrigued, however Mr Doodle likes coffee too. He thinks he will take the best of both and make a coffeechoco! Mr Doodle does have an problem though, he understands there is possible cross tolerance so could only realistically do one experiment. Maybe he should start with Basil oil as he read above it is the easiest to activate.

Of course Mr Doodle will have all necessary recording equipment and alien friends about to properly notate the experiment and of course will report back..
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Old 19-05-2011, 05:07
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorge View Post
200mg of pure elmicin (elemi xtreme) was taken with a group of people with cocktails and blue chamomile oil.

Euphoria and the feeling of a slightly week dose of LSD was felt for 6 hours. Lots of good energy and empathy.
It’s very nice to see others enjoying this wonderful oil. When it works it can be a great experience. The key is getting the proper enzymes inhibited. German chamomile oil is great for this (especially if taken with cinnamon bark oil).

Also, CYP2D6 should not be inhibited. Common things that inhibit CYP2D6 include grapefruit, black pepper, and the ever popular MDMA.

Also, a phenethylamine is getting more popular these days. Elemicin is cross tolerance with phenethylamine and visa versa, so this supplement should be avoided when using elemicin. A lot of diet pills contain it. It will however boost the effects of elemicin if taken at the same time along with hordenine.

69Ron added 12 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tukotih View Post
It also induces CYP2D6, which could be of great help.


I saw this mentioned on Wiki and a few other places, but most reports I saw say the opposite. I believe piperine inhibits CYP2D6 in humans for about 3-5 hours. AFOAFís tests with black pepper have caused elemicin to be greatly weakened. Everything so far that inhibits CYP2D6 has greatly weakened the effects of elemicin. Grapefruit juice, black pepper, and quercetin have all greatly weakened the effects of elemicin. Enzyme inhibitors that donít inhibit CYP2D6 like German chamomile, cinnamon bark oil, etc., make elemicin work better.

Last edited by 69Ron; 19-05-2011 at 05:07. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #14  
Old 19-05-2011, 05:47
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

absolutely amazing.
some input on the coffee. caffeine is a vasodilator. it is often thought by people swim met who were in jail that coffee boosts most pharmaceuticals-they mentioned opiod medicines- and also increase absorption time.
another thing afoaf read many years ago mentioned NOT drinking coffee/certain red wines/aged cheeses, in addition to phenethylamines, when taking nutmeg, due to monoamineoxidase inhibition-think another poster mentioned it in this thread-
be assured that there is afoDF that will report back on this, although to say'soon' may not bee true

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Caffeine is a vasoconstrictor, my friend.
  #15  
Old 20-05-2011, 12:03
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Besides the opioid activity of coffee, caffeine is a CYP1A2 inhibitor, and that's why it changes the metabolism of these essential oils.
  #16  
Old 20-05-2011, 20:07
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

from a headache site

psugrrly January 3, 2010 at 5:59 pm
a vasodilator means it makes your arteries and veins open which prevent heartattacks blood clots and ext. but i just recently did a science project on energy drinks and i also know that caffeine is a vasodilator.
bye bye good luck hope this helped
Antonio January 3, 2010 at 6:13 pm
I believe it is a vasodilator. Caffeine is broken down by the liver into three different compounds, 12% of which is theobromine. Theobromine dilates the blood vessels and also acts to increase urine volume.
Keith Basley April 15, 2010 at 1:14 am
This is a good post, I was wondering if I could use this blog post on my website, I will link it back to your website though. If this is a problem please let me know and I will take it down right away.

personally, swim does coffe w trams to help it hit faster
and i told ethnobotanikid that it was a vasodilator, because google says both, and swim uses headache pills and coffee for headaches too, opens blood vessels, swim thinks, to let the blood flow easier, less headache. see excedrine migraine ingredients
and people use it working out to let some nutes flow to muscles.
  #17  
Old 26-05-2011, 04:58
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Ron View Post
Maybe there's another herb that can do this better than coffee can.
Ron, have swiy looked into Yerba Mate? If caffeine is the thing in coffee that is changing the effects it would be worth looking into Yerba Mate which has three different xanthines... caffeine, theobromine and theophylline. Yerba Mate has very different effects from coffee in the respects that the "come up" is much smoother, it doesnt rush you as much. There is virtually no "crash". It's more uplifting and mood elevating than coffee, which seems to just make you awake and jittery.

And when swim whips up a batch of good strong Mate, it is pretty much a recreational high by itself. Hands down swims favorite stimulant. Swim has found Yerba Mate to do amazing things while tripping on LSD too.

Swim recommends that Yerba Mate be purchased online and get a South American brand (non of that crap thats sold in US Supermarkets). The traditional mate's are the best in effect and taste. Like Cruz De Malta, Amanda Bolsa or Taragui.

Keep up the good work.
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Old 26-05-2011, 07:42
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Yerba Mate, yes; and her noble sister Guayusa as well !
  #19  
Old 07-02-2012, 04:48
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Since oxygenation has been mentioned as one possible candidate for activation, I thought I would offer an anecdotal story that seems to back that up.

Way back in the day when an old friend of mine was in high school, she and a friend each took two heaping tablespoons of powdered nutmeg from her parents spice cabinet, with tea. It was the first nutmeg experiment for both of them. After waiting for about 5 hours or so and noticing no effects and long since considering the experiment a bust, they parted company and my friend began to ride her bike home. However, within minutes of the bikeride my friend reports suddenly feeling definite effects from the nutmeg; a giddy, euphoric feeling, and even a strong empathic connection with strangers driving by in cars as they caught her smile. It was about a 5 mile bike ride, and when she got home she excitedly called her friend, assuming that it had kicked in for him too. But he felt nothing. My friend proceeded to have a full blown trip. This led my friend to wonder if the exercise somehow gave her the boost that was needed.

So, long story short, there may be something to an increase of oxygen either to the brain or to the other organs. Just a thought, since there seems to still be a lot of mystery and confusion about this subject, I thought this might be useful information to some folks here.

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The exercise/trip connection has been reported elsewhere, good to bring it up here...
  #20  
Old 25-02-2012, 20:17
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

My friend is planning on trying a oilahuasca experiment with Canarium luzonicum (Elemi oil) 91% Elemicin / 9% Iso-elemicin and on another occasion Ocimum basilicum (Sweet Basil Oil) 99% Methyl Chavicol. He will be recieving 500mg of each of these along with an inhibitor that inhibits the enzymes the op is talking about here.

He is wondering if he should take the entire 500mg of one of the oils with the inhibitor or if this would be too large of a dose? He doesn't want to waste any on a low dose that wouldn't give full blown effects but doesn't want to suffer any bad side effects.
All the reports he can find when the user has had an inhibitor before the oils has been when people have used essential oil not the concentrated forms.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  #21  
Old 07-03-2012, 20:53
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Well this was unsuccessful for my friend.

He took a product called Inhibizyme, this compound temporarily inhibits the following known enzymes: CYP1A2, CYP2A6, CYP2E1, CYP1A1, CYP1B1, CYP2C9, CYP3A4, and CYP2A6. This was followed by a small brownie.
About 40 minutes later he took 500mg of 91% elecimin again, followed by a small brownie.
He felt very slight euphoria but that was it.
4 hours later he took the inhibizyme again and used a product called flor-essence that he believes is based on the same research he thinks it's mainly safrole. With no food this time. Again, nothing.

He still have one inhibizyme and 500mg of methyl chavicol. Maybe he's doing something wrong. Any advice?
  #22  
Old 08-03-2012, 18:55
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

^Sweetleaf, there are new parts to the oilahuasca theory that might help you to get it working. You might need to inhibit a few other enzymes, including aldehyde dehydrogenase with something like kudzu extract and xanthine oxidase. You should also try predosing with either lysine or black pepper tea with the solids filtered out. These increases the levels of piperidine in the body and make in more likely that an alkaloid will form.

It also might have to do with the "Inhibizyme" product. The current theory is that CYP2C9 should be induced and not inhibited.
  #23  
Old 09-03-2012, 05:10
sweetleaf64 sweetleaf64 is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Thanks for the response.
I thought we were supposed to avoid pepper?
Well I really wish I read your post because I just took the inhibitor to try out 500mg methyl chavicol. I'm also going to add 500mg 91% elecimin

Where did you get your information from? I've been looking online for other discussions on this and I have only found a few that seem like they are earlier than this thread.

sweetleaf64 added 478 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

So my friend tried it again. He ingested Inhibizyme mixed with milk on an empty stomach (this was before powerfulmedicine's post) after thirty minutes he he ingested 500mg of each 91%elecimin and 99% methyl chavicol mixed with milk. About thirty minutes later he felt that something was different. An hour into it he had a floaty feeling and it felt like his head was swimming. He thought this was a come up to a much stronger experience and was even a little worried that it might be too intense. But this was the peak. The main effects lasted about 30 minutes, and he had some afterglow for about 2 hours after. After powerfulmedicine's post he wasn'e even expecting what happened so he wasn't too disappointed.
He could also taste the oils everytime he burped until he ate about 3 hours into the experience, making him think they never properly left his stomach. He experienced some pretty strong nausea no vomiting but some gagging and he was close to vomiting.

The first time he capped all the oils and ate small bits of food after, which didn't work. This time he mixed in milk and didn't eat anything. This time was stronger but more of a sicker feeling. He thinks there is deffinitely potential but this process needs more work.
I'm really intrested in what powerfulmedicine said.

The reason my friend used inhibizyme is because it's wayyy cheaper than buying the individual pre-dose oils and he's not completely convinced it will work like what's being described so he really doesn't want to spend a ton of money on it right now.

I'm editing to add that 69ron said that CYP2C9 needs to be inhibited not induced. He said that CYP2D9 needs to be left alone.

Last edited by sweetleaf64; 09-03-2012 at 05:13. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #24  
Old 09-03-2012, 17:20
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleaf64 View Post
Thanks for the response.
I thought we were supposed to avoid pepper?
You are supposed to avoid eating pepper because of the piperine (maybe). But piperine in almost insoluble in water while piperidine is very soluble, so making tea out of the pepper allows you to get the piperidine without inhibiting the wrong enzymes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleaf64 View Post
Where did you get your information from? I've been looking online for other discussions on this and I have only found a few that seem like they are earlier than this thread.
It's on a different forum and not that hard to find. The theories behind oilahuasca have made a lot of advances that are not covered in this thread. That's all I will say about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetleaf64 View Post
I'm editing to add that 69ron said that CYP2C9 needs to be inhibited not induced. He said that CYP2D9 needs to be left alone.


CYP2C9 should be INDUCED (in general) and CYP2D6 should be INHIBITED.
  #25  
Old 09-03-2012, 22:48
sweetleaf64 sweetleaf64 is offline
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Re: Oilahuasca: the new psychedelic frontier

Oh now I understand about the pepper.

Hmmmmm, I have been looking online but cannot locate the reference you cite. Can you send me the details please? Or, perhaps, cut and paste the information here.

On another note, my friend has been feeling very wierd today every so often he gets the feeling that you get when you get up really fast, light headedness, slight dizziness, etc...
He's not sure if the oils are to blame but he hasn't taken anything else since then and the feelings have been occuring on and off until about 2pm today. He knows that regular nutmeg is suppossed to effect you for 24 hours. Is he feeling this way because of the elecimin?

Last edited by MrG; 19-03-2012 at 06:07. Reason: Restoration and rewording of request.

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basil, beta carboline, beta carbolines, caffeine, chamomile, chavicol, cinnamon, clove, cyp1a2, cyp2d6, cyp2d6 inhibition, elemi, elemicin, essential oils, eugaol, eugenol, methyl chavicol, myristicin, new drug, new drugs, nutmeg, safrole, sassafras, weed

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