My little fish here is swimming and was wondering how the codeine euphoria is like. There are 30 mg/500 mg paracetamol pills floating around his fish bowl. Yesterday night my dog did a cwe to get out the paracetamol on about 12 of those pils, resulting in around 340 mg codeine minus what was lost in the cwe. He jammed it in his gatorade and decided to lie down and drink the bitter liquid.
He felt some itching after a while, he decided to drink it slowly beacuse it was the first time he did it.
In 1 hour all the gatorade was finished and my dog was waiting for the so called euphoria, thinking it will kick in at some moment.
Well, he didnt feel anything, just some relaxed feeling, like being very tired.
Now my fish asked my dog then why so many people are talking about euphoria. What is the definition of euphoria anyway?
My fish remembers when he popped xtc, mdma, cocaine+alcohol. Those types of drugs caused an intense feeling of euphoria. He felt it in his little brain, all dopamine going nice and smooth, but now stays wondering about what Codeine euphoria is like......
First off, bear in mind that the body converts codeine into morphine (~10%) by using the so called P450 cytochrome pathway, especially cytochrome 2D6 (CYP2D6). Unfortunately, CYP2D6 is missing in about 7% of the white population. SWIM is not sure what your dog's opiate tolerance is like, but 340 mg of codeine for a first timer is a LOT. So, if your dog truly didn't feel any euphoria from 340 mg and is relatively tolerance free, then SWIM is inclined to believe your dog is in the unlucky 7%.
Then again, codeine is a subtle drug and gives a subtle high. In SWIM's experience, he would feel very relaxed, warm, and tired. However, every so often "waves" of euphoria would ripple through his body, causing him to moan/laugh in pleasure. In his first time, SWIM didn't do nearly your dog's amount (only did 90 mg) but definitely felt the effects of euphoria.
thanks for you input.
My dog would like to know if maybe he should have drunk the liquid all in once. He took 1 complete hour to drink it, to give it some time, and make sure he didnt overdose.
He wants to give it another shot, drinking it all in once, maybe take a bit less to have a final verdict on it.
He is just looking to have some euphoria, thats his main reason.
Maybe there are some other suggestions on different types of drugs, preferabely farmacy related, that can cause euphoria in one way or another.
Yes, your dog should probably have drunk it all in one go. From what I've heard, codeine blocks the very pathway it uses to affect you, so if you redose after say half an hour, only the first dose will have an effect. That said though, 340mg is a pretty hefty dose for an opiate naive pooch like your dog. I'm surprised you didn't feel much, but codeine is very subtle. Did your dog move around and do things while on it? Lying down makes the drug much more noticeable, or so the stray dope-fiend who lives in our attic tells me. I suggest that next time your dog tries it, he smoke a bit of weed, lie down and listen to some relaxing music. Golden Brown by the stranglers always does it for the aforementioned dope fiend. It's not euphoria like MDMA would give you, more just a very pleasant, calm feeling with a feeling of warmth and tingling in your body, much like after a good orgasm.
There could be a few reasons that your friend didnt experience that opiate/opioid euphoria he was looking for. Believe me, he would know it if he felt it. Opiate/Opioid euphoria is very distinctive, in my opinion anyway.
Codeine is a pro-drug, which means by itself its inactive. It has to be metabolized in the body, more specifically its converted into morphine by an enzyme in the liver. This is also the reason codeine has a ceiling limit of 400mg (the ceiling limit/dose has been debated over many times, find out more info by UTFSE). The enzyme can only convert a certain amount of codeine at a time or in 24hr peroid or something like that anyway. Your friend can certainly do some research about it by Using The Forum Search Engine (UTFSE). Actually I would recommend to anyone who is planning on using any kind of drug recreationally to do research before hand, knowledge is power! LOL. Anyway, back to the enzyme thing.. There is a certain percentage of the population who are unable to metabolize codeine, meaning... codeine is completely useless to them. Its a very small percentage, I think something less than 10%, cant say for sure but once again a simple search can certainly locate that info for you. So thats the basic bad news.LOL. Hope that problem doesnt apply to your friend, but its not impossible.
In my friend Peaches personal opinion, 340mgs (give or take considering the CWE) is way too high for a first time dose. Obviously there are a few things to consider when thinking about dosages. Tolerance is obviously very important. Someone who has never experimented with opiates/opioids would be considered opiate naive, meaning your friend would have no tolerance. That being said, the dose your friend took could be pretty dangerous to someone who is opiate naive. Even though codeine is a weak opiate, it is still an opiate and can still cause respiratory depression and be fatal. If an OD is ever possible, please dont hesitate and call for medical attention immediately. Opiates can and do kill. Im not trying to scare you or anything. These are just facts and this is a harm reduction site.
Not only is tolerance a thing to factor in, you also never said your friends height and weight. A dose that would rock little ol' 5'2 Peaches world would probably not make a 6'2 quarterback feel warm and fuzzy in the slightest, if you get what Im saying. Taking it on an empty stomach would probably work best as well, though that could just be a personal preference. Peaches would also suggest just downing the CWE product all at once. I understand your friends wants to be cautious, and actually it was probably the best thing he did considering that massive dose, but if he is wanting the maximum effect, and Im assuming he is, that would not be the best thing to do. You could even say that drinking it slowly over an hour gave an effect comparable to a slow release tablet or something. Peaches suggestion- just down it all at once on an empty stomach and chase it with a coke or something to try and mask the bitter taste.
As far as the dosage she would suggest for next time, 150mgs is a general starting dose, but there are numerous threads with swimmers asking about starting doses so your friend should be able to find a suitable answer somewhere around here. Just keep in mind that codeine is an opiate, it is still very addictive. A lot of addicts start their journey on the opiate train with codeine as their starting point. Hell, Peaches did, she was prescribed it for pain from her Dr and is now prescribed OxyContin (slow release oxycodone). Just be very careful and very aware, you can become psychologically addicted before you are physically and vice versa. Never use for more than three consecutive days because, in my opinion, thats the least amount of time it can take to develop a physical addiction and then withdrawals with follow upon cessation. Believe me, they aint fun. Im not trying to scare your friend or anything, I just want him to be informed.
Like I said several times, and you're probably tired of hearing it too, but you can find unlimited amounts of information by UTFSE. Your friend will never be sorry he did research, but he can always regret that he didnt.
If your friend has any further questions feel free to ask. Hope that helped some. Have fun, good luck, and be safe.
Last edited by southern girl; 16-02-2011 at 20:27.
SWIsoutherngirl brings up a good point when she says not to use for more than three days in a row. Opiate tolerance (at least with codeine) develops rapidly, but then again, returning to "baseline" tolerance occurs fairly quickly too. SWIM has been chipping with promethazine/codeine syrup for 3 months and has found that if he only partakes in sipping once a week, his tolerance does not increase by much at all. Of course it takes a good amount of self-discipline to do this as the codeine high is very nice . To combat the urge to sip, SWIM gets his friend to hide the syrup and make it inaccessible during the week. However, once sippin saturday rolls around, his friend gives him back his syrup and SWIM has a great time
Thats a good advice, thank you for that.
My dog will give it another shot, downing it all at once and reducing the dose to 180-210.
He felt the itching and slept very well that night so if he was immune to the codeine, he wouldt feel anything right?
My fish has its doubts on codeine use. He believes there are far more better euphoriants out there.
Pitty we dont have a section on that. Every drug seems to have its own euphoria, my fish wonders if there are more options, not counting mdma/alcohol/coceine....
Allright, my dog prepared a cwe extraction on 9x30mg capsules, resulting in more or less 270 mg minus a bit.
He is going to drink it tonight, but maybe not all at once. He will leave a little left to maybe add a little more towards the end, when he sure he doent feel anything yet.
When does the effect actualy start? Since my dog drank the solution last time, he spread it over an entire hour, it was 360mg and only felt itching a deep sleep when he finaly fell asleep.
Although all swimmers are different, your dog could feel the effects of euphoria in less than 7 minutes. Of course, there's always the placebo effect, but SWIM often feels the real codeine euphoria 5-10 minutes after ingesting.
Thats a fast onset!
Yesterday my dog downed his gatorade containing around 270mg of codeine.
Indeed, he felt it pretty fast and the itching started to accumulate. This time he felt a better pronounced relaxation in the body, leaving the spirit very clear. He thinks this is what its all about, right?
Now, in my dogs brain there were still no signs of some kind of euphoria, but he thiks now he is on the right way. Its sometimes a bit dificult for a first timer to exactly feel the right thing.
Seems like 270 mg doesnt do the trick yet, next week he will do a little more.
Would 330 be better then for a dog?
Swim thinks swiy is getting a better idea of what codeine actually does. In my goose's opinion, the relaxation factor is what makes codeine so great. It makes my goose feel warm and cozy inside, almost like he's "melting" into his bed/couch. He feels content with his life, the world, and the people around him. The waves of euphoria are intermittent and not usually overpowering...they are simply a bonus in addition to the primary effects of recreational codeine (sedation, analgesia, feeling of being content). My goose has never CWE'd codeine from pills because he can get his wings on promethazine/codeine syrup, which is a great combo because promethazine acts as a potentiator to the codeine and helps my goose fall peacefully asleep. But Swim digresses.
Your dog can try the 330 mg, but make sure to leave some time in between this dose and the next one because codeine tolerance develops rapidly. My goose will be interested to hear if your dog feels any differences in the jump to 330mg.
Codeine is weird for swim. He rarely feels anything off it in high doses, but actually gets euphoric in doses below 100mg. Dihydrocodeine is really good as are pods. Although sometimes swim will do opiates as per usual and feel pretty much nothing, except tired and fucked up.
My dog did a 330mg dose yesterday evening.
The itching was very uncomfortable, but he felt a detachement from the body more than an hour later. Also he couldnt get a deep sleep however his dream state was pretty vivid and weird.
His conlcusion towards codeine use is:
My dog thinks its not worth all the effort.
He doesnt get an euphoria of it, however he is now well aware of the subtileness of this kind of high.
The day after is just a lazy day.
So in my dogs opinion there are far more better drugs than codeine.
Still....it is a long and winding road finding the right one.