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Ethnobotanicals Psychedelic plants, Iboga, Calea, Blue lotus, Ephedra, Sinicuichi, Betel nut, etc.

 
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  #1  
Old 14-02-2011, 01:26
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

For those of you that are unaware, MDMA is primarily manufactured from the safrole found in sassafras essential oil.

Many bioassays of sassafras and even pure safrole show little activity. Usually a slight sedative effect, and very mild MDMA-like effect might be felt if you’re lucky. Although a few people report almost full blown MDMA-like effects from sassafras as is, most people get no effects. This points in the direction of human metabolism altering the effects of safrole.

AFOAF once tried sassafras with a CYP1A2 inhibitor: German chamomile. This experiment produced stimulant effects unlike the effects had from just sassafras alone. There was mild euphoria, and some possible mild visuals effects.

Safrole is primarily inactivated by conversion into 1-hydroxysafrole by CYP2A6. German chamomile primarily inhibits CYP1A2, so AFOAF was using the wrong inhibitor, but it was somewhat effective.

Cinnamon bark oil is a potent CYP2A6 inhibitor. This should theoretically prevent CYP2A6 from turning safrole into 1-hydroxysafrole.

My theory is that about 2-5 grams of cinnamon, or 5-10 drops of cinnamon essential oil will contain enough cinnamaldehyde to inhibit CYP2A6 and allow MDMA-like effects to be experienced from sassafras or sassafras oil.

This is only a theory. As of yet AFOAF has not tried this. He will try this very soon. Incidentally, it is the 1-hydroxysafrole which is primarily formed by CYP2A6 which is considered weakly carcinogenic and not safrole itself. So by using cinnamon oil, the weak potential carcinogenicity of safrole should be greatly reduced.

For his test he plans on using German chamomile oil at 3 drops along with the cinnamon bark oil at 6 drops. He will use sassafras bark, freshly ground, extracted into milk with lecithin, just like how you make kava. This is the best way to extract the safrole without using a solvent. He will take the sassafras milk and the oils at the same time. Hopefully this produces an MDMA-like effect. We will see.



Here's a picture of what the CYP2A6 enzyme in humans does to safrole. Once converted to 1-hydroxysafrole by CYP2A6, it becomes much more polar (the XLogP drops from 3 way down to 1.9!), and so it's far more difficult for it to enter the brain, meaning it should be far less psychedelic (assuming that safrole is actually psychedelic before this conversion). For maximum entry into the brain, CYP2A6 should be inhibited to prevent this conversion. It’s possible that CYP1A2 might be able to perform this very same conversion (it does so with methyl chavicol and elemicin), so it too should be inhibited.

On the right you can see MDMA for comparison purposes. See how 1-hydroxysafrole is less like MDMA than safrole is? The XLogP3 of safrole is 3, MDMA is 2.2, and 1-hydroxysafrole is 1.9, being the most polar of the three. Safrole should more easily cross the blood brain barrier than MDMA, but once attacked by CYP2A6 enzymes, safrole turns into 1-hydroxysafrole, and that should help prevent it from entering the brain.


(NOTE: this picture was just uploaded and so it may be moderated and not available for a little bit, so you may not see it yet.)




69Ron added 818 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...

Well it was tried a few hours ago.

AFOAF used 5 grams of sassafras bark, 1 gram of lecithin, ground to powder, then mixed with 1 cup of steaming hot milk and 2 ml of vegetable oil. This was left to sit for 2 hours and was then filtered. It was super hard to filter. Decanting would be a better idea.

He then mixed 6 drops of cinnamon bark oil and 3 drops of German chamomile oil into it. The German chamomile would not mix into it and just floated to the top. He mixed it as good as he could and drank it down.

Its been about 3 hours and he feels NICE. There's very obvious euphoria. Sense of touch is enhanced. He feels good. There's no sedation felt at all. It’s mildly psychedelic.

This seemed to work. But he doesn’t know what MDMA really feels like so he can’t compare it to MDMA. It does feel like a phenethylamine though. It’s very different from taking sassafras on its own.

This is a light dose. I think 10-20 grams of bark would be much better.

I would love to hear what others more familiar with MDMA think about this combination. It seems to have worked to produce an MDMA-like effect, but until others more familiar with MDMA test this out, we should take that statement as simply a guess.

Post Quality Evaluations:
This is a gret collection of information, thanks for sharing!

Last edited by 69Ron; 14-02-2011 at 02:05. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 14-02-2011, 03:59
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

it absolutly amazes me just how common psychoactives are. your work on essential oils is really interesting, do you think it is converted to MDMA or a similar phenethylamine in-vivo or safrole itself is an empathogen.
  #3  
Old 14-02-2011, 04:51
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

It’s been about 6 hours since he took it. The peak seemed to happen at around 3 hours.

This is pretty much a threshold dose, enough to feel it for sure, but very mild.

So far, all of the “essential amphetamines” that AFOAF has tried give psychedelic effects when the proper digestive enzymes are inhibit, but often do nothing interesting if taken on their own. This is similar to how ayahuasca activates DMT orally by enzyme inhibition, while taking DMT orally alone does nothing.

Here’s a comparison chart between safrole taken with CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors, and the other major psychedelic oils AFOAF has tried.

Psychedelic oil safrole is being compared to Inhibitors used for the oil on the left Oil source used Rating (9=best) Similarity with safrole (9=same) Safole's effect (CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors used) compared to the oil on the left
Elemicin CYP1A2, CYP2A6 Pure elemi oil isolate 9 2 Safrole feels almost nothing like elemicin; safrole lacks decent visuals, the body feel is very different, more speedy, more euphoric than elemicin.
Methyl chavicol CYP1A2, CYP2A6 Pure sweet basil oil isolate 8 8 Safrole feels the most like methyl chavicol, but safrole is more of a stimulant and less visual. Safrole's body feel is pretty much identical. The mood from safrole is not quite as uplifted as it is from methyl chavicol.
Safrole CYP1A2, CYP2A6 Sassafras tea 7 9 N/A. This is the compound and inhibitor mix we are comparing all these oils to on the left, since both are the same mix, there is no comparison needed. Instead I'll just state that this combination is the best so far. Both inhibitors should be used for optimum effects from safrole.
Myristicin + Safrole + Elemicin None Indonesian nutmeg oil 5 3 Safrole is quite different from nutmeg oil. Nutmeg oil is far more visual, far more mentally psychedelic, more dreamy, drifty, foggy.
Safrole CYP1A2 Sassafras tea 4 6 Safrole taken with both CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors is much more of a psychedelic. With just CYP1A2, as taken on the left, safrole lacks depth, it feels shallow, more like a simple stimulant.
Myristicin None Hungarian parsley seed oil 3 5 Safrole is similar to myristicin in terms of its body feel, euphoria, etc., but there’s much less “mind fuck” with safrole, and safrole is not as speedy, its more relaxed.
Safrole None Sassafras tea 1 1 Safrole with both inhibitors is not at all the same as safrole taken without CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors. Without the inhibitors there’s no euphoria, almost no psychedelic effects, and its sedating instead of stimulating. Clearly the CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors have a huge impact on its effects.

69Ron added 23 Minutes and 33 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenythylamine View Post
...do you think it is converted to MDMA or a similar phenethylamine in-vivo or safrole itself is an empathogen.


It’s hard to really say. AFOAF has almost no experience with MDMA.

The tests I’ve read found that safrole is not metabolized into MDMA in man, however, in those tests I’ve read CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors are not used.

I read one test that showed this is the case in rats (or was it mice, I don’t recall), but most tests show this is not the case. But again, CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors were not used in any of the animal tests I read.

When a person ingests safrole, it should pretty immediately be converted to 1-hydoxysafrole by CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 enzymes if enough are present in the body. CYP1A2 is all over the body, even in the brain. So these must be inhibited or it’s just like you’re ingesting 1-hydoxysafrole.

I think safrole is not active, but possibly a metabolite of it’s epoxide metabolite is active, maybe an aldehyde is? Normally safrole is attacked by CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 and converted to 1-hydroxysafrole without CYP3A4 having a chance to do much to it. 1-hydroxysafrole cannot be converted to safrole epoxide by CYP3A4, and so formation of this active metabolite would probably not happen. This is why a CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitor is critical here. If CYP2A6 is inhibited, CYP1A2 is likely to do the conversion, so both must be inhibited, then allowing CYP3A4 to do its magic on safrole instead. That's my theory. Could be completely wrong though.

Think of this like a complex ayahuasca type of enzyme manipulation. But instead of just MAO, we have at least 3 enzymes working on safrole. Normally CYP2A6 attacks it and forms the inactive 1-hydroxysafrole. Take CYP2A6 out of the picture with cinnamon bark oil and then CYP1A2 inactivates it by forming 1-hydroxysafrole. But take both CYP2A6 and CYP1A2 out of the picture with cinnamon bark oil and German chamomile oil and then CYP3A4 helps to activate it by forming safrole epoxide instead of 1-hydroxysafrole, which then maybe forms an active compound later down the line of metabolism. The part about CYP3A4 causing a chain reaction that forms an active compound is all theoretical of course. But for sure CYP2A6 and CYP1A2 are causing a change that prevents safrole from becoming psychedelic. Remove them from the scene and it becomes psychedelic, at least it does in AFOAF.

I should mention that the term "psychedelic" is being used loosely here. The “psychedelic” effects are similar to descriptions of the effects of MDMA, which some people do not classify as a "psychedelic". Some prefer the term "empathogen".

Last edited by 69Ron; 14-02-2011 at 21:59. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 14-02-2011, 12:23
DanBanan DanBanan is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Ron View Post
Psychedelic oil Inhibitors used Oil source used Rating 9=best Similarity 9=same As compared with safrole using CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors
Elemicin CYP1A2, CYP2A6 Pure elemi oil isolate 9 2 It feels almost nothing like elemicin; it lacks decent visuals, the body feel is very different, more speedy, more euphoric.
So, does this mean Elemicin shouldn't be mixed with Cinnamon bark oil if you want decent visuals?
Your CYP1A2, CYP2A6 inhibited experiment is new to me, so I just had to be sure. I don't want to divert the thread into a elemicin discussion though, so take it in the elemi oil thread if you want, unless it's a quick answer that is!

Last edited by DanBanan; 14-02-2011 at 13:22.
  #5  
Old 15-02-2011, 01:51
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

I didn't make the table meanings clear enough. I see how the table can be interpreted incorrectly. I’ll update it in a minute to make its meaning clearer.

The descriptions on the right are comparing the oils on the left (such as elemicin) with safrole taken with both CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors. The “Inhibitors used” column says which inhibitors were used with the oil on the left. In this case elemicin on the left in the comparison was used with both CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors.

Elemicin is best taken with both CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors. It’s more visual that way, and an all around deeper experience. AFOAF has tried this enough that he no longer uses Elemicin without both German chamomile and cinnamon bark oil.

Some people apparently require a CYP2A6 inhibitor to experience effects from elemicin. Others require a CYP1A2 inhibitor. And some people probably require both. Some people, like AFOAF, sometimes need no inhibitors at all. But even for AFOAF, it’s much better taken with both inhibitors.

69Ron added 9 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...

Ok, I updated the table. Sorry for the confusion. The meanings should be much clearer now.

69Ron added 239 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

Concerning inhibitors, some people may require other inhibitors as well. For AFOAF CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors do the job. That doesn’t mean these inhibitors will activate safrole for other people. It’s good to start with these, but if they don’t work, it’s likely another enzyme needs to be either inhibited or induced. P450 enzymes are complex and each person has a different level of them, even the same person from day to day varies in these enzymes.

Other key P450 enzymes to look into inducing or inhibiting are possibly CYP2D6 and CYP3A4.

Last edited by 69Ron; 15-02-2011 at 01:52. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #6  
Old 15-02-2011, 23:57
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

69ron, can you provide dosages/quantities for the above combinations?
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Old 17-02-2011, 02:53
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 69Ron View Post
This seemed to work. But he doesn’t know what MDMA really feels like so he can’t compare it to MDMA.
I don't understand how one could describe 'MDMA-like effects' if the individual experimenting with this combination hasn't tried MDMA itself.. or did I miss something?

EDIT: Yes it seemed I did - I believe you suggest empathogenic effects from this combination are similar to those others experience on MDMA, though likely much more mild for obvious reasons.

Last edited by NeuroChi; 17-02-2011 at 02:56. Reason: adding
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Old 19-02-2011, 13:23
tripz_two tripz_two is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Seeing this thread reminded me of a story a friend had told me a long time ago that was very similar. I asked him about his story again, so I could provide some feedback here. Here is what he told me, a lot of it is coincidentally almost the same as what 69Ron said.

15 grams of sassafras root bark was left to steep for an hour in a couple cups of very hot milk, 2ml vegetable oil, and 1 Tbs/~4 grams of lecithin. This was then briefly pressed and then filtered through a triple layer of cheesecloth.

4 drops of cinnamon bark oil, and 2 capsules (700mg?) dry German Chamomile were taken 10 minutes before hand hoping to inhibit the enzymes up front. 10 minutes later, 6 drops of cinnamon oil and the opened contents of another chamomile capsule were combined with the milk and consumed.

In short, nothing noteworthy was reported. My friend reported that he felt nothing like having taken MDMA in either crystals or adulterated pressed pill form. There was an effect of relaxation, and a fuzzy head, but he attributed this to all the chamomile.

He wanted me to thank 69Ron for his efforts, but insisted I report that in his case at least in the story, there was no similarity to the very pushy, overwhelming euphoria that mdma brings. In fact euphoria was almost absent.

Some questions for 69Ron:
Any idea on why this didnt work?
Is the german chamomile more active in essential oil rather than capsule form?
Should he had spent more time expressing and kneading the cheesecloth full of bark?
You mentioned CYP2D, how much of what substance to inhibit or induce?
  #9  
Old 19-02-2011, 18:47
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripz_two View Post
Some questions for 69Ron:

Any idea on why this didnt work?
The number 1 reason for failure: not enough inhibition of CYP1A2 and CYP2A6. Up the dose of both inhibitors. Do NOT take them separately from the sassafras. AFOAF takes them at the same time.

700mg of German chamomile is not nearly enough to do anything at all. AFOAF gets no inhibition at all from less than 5000 mg. You’ll need 5000-10,000 mg at least, some people need even more.

The cinnamon bark oil dose might not be enough for that guy. Try using double the dose.

I believe the sedative effects felt mean that the safrole was converted to 1-hydroxy-safrole, meaning CYP1A2, CYP2A6 and possibly other enzymes are preventing it from working. In AFOAF simply inhibiting these two enzymes is enough. But this might not be the case for others.

I’m willing to bet by using 10 drops of blue German chamomile essential oil (or 10,000 mg of herb) with 10 drops of cinnamon bark oil, he’ll get it to work.

Everyone is different. But for sure, in AFOAF inadequate CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibition will lead to failure every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripz_two View Post
Is the German chamomile more active in essential oil rather than capsule form?
The dose used was WAY TOO SMALL! That’s one reason for failure.

The blue German chamomile essential oil is more effective. I bet 10 drops will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripz_two View Post
Should he had spent more time expressing and kneading the cheesecloth full of bark?
That should not be important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripz_two View Post
You mentioned CYP2D, how much of what substance to inhibit or induce?
CYP2D6…I’m not sure about this. I’ll need to look into it more.

Up the dose of the CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 inhibitors. That’s most likely the cause of failure. But it’s possible there are other enzymes in certain people that also need inhibition.

Keep in mind that AFOAF also easily trips from elemicin. He’s extra sensitive to these oils. Adjust the dosage higher. Most people need 3-10 times as much as he does for pretty much all psychoactive drugs.

Think of this like ayahuasca where harmine dosage is critical to getting effects from the DMT. If not enough harmine is present from the B. caapi you get no effects from the DMT, even massive doses of DMT. Same thing here, but instead of MAO enzymes inactivating DMT we have CYP1A2 and CYP2A6 enzymes (and possibly others) inactivating safrole. With harmine and DMT, dosage varies greatly from person to person. Some people need 10 times as much DMT as others do, and some people need 5 times as much harmine. I assume variations like this are to be expected with this combination.

With DMT and harmine, AFOAF needs only 20 mg DMT and 150 mg harmine to trip pretty hard. A few others report needing as much as 200 mg DMT and 500 mg harmine for the same level of effects! I assume the same will be true with this combination.



(Sorry for the spelling errors. The keyboard I'm using right now is a piece of crap! Many keys don't work!)

Last edited by 69Ron; 19-02-2011 at 19:13.
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Old 19-02-2011, 19:14
tripz_two tripz_two is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

69Ron, thank you for your feedback, Ill let him know what you said.
If I happen to hear any updates on this in the next week, I'll post what he tells me.

I can barely imagine this personally - 10 drops of cinnamon oil, wow. That stuff is strong.
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Old 19-02-2011, 19:43
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

When reading my posts whenever I mention dose information for AFOAF it is vital that the reader understands that he is extra sensitive to nearly all psychoactive drugs, especially psychedelics.

Most people trying the doses AFOAF uses will experience no effects at all.

For him he can feel the following doses of various popular psychedelics:

50 mg mescaline orally
50 mg bufotenine orally
1 mg 5-MeO-DMT sublingually
10 micrograms of LSD
200 micrograms of LSA/LSH orally
500 micrograms of psilocin orally
1 mg of vaporized freebase bufotenine
500 micrograms of vaporized freebase 5-MeO-DMT
5 mg of vaporized freebase DMT
10 mg DMT orally with 150 mg harmine
1/4 of a Hawaiian baby woodrose seed

That should give you some idea of just how sensitive he is to most psychedelics.

Most people need far more than that of all of those just to feel them. So always consider that when reading my posts.

69Ron added 13 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripz_two View Post
69Ron, thank you for your feedback, Ill let him know what you said.

If I happen to hear any updates on this in the next week, I'll post what he tells me.

I can barely imagine this personally - 10 drops of cinnamon oil, wow. That stuff is strong.
Can he feel 5 drops of cinnamon essential oil on its own? If so maybe the dose is enough, if not, up the dose! AFOAF can very definitely feel a dose as small as 3 drops.

He can feel the following doses of various essential oils:

1 drop of Hungarian parsley seed
1 drop of blue German chamomile
2 drops of clove leaf
3 drops of cinnamon bark
3 drops of valerian root
3 drops of nutmeg
3 drops of elemi
5 drops of basil
3 drops of eucalyptus

The dosage used of the blue German chamomile should be enough to get STIMULANT effects from it. Any smaller dose is not enough and will just produce mild mental relaxation. Once you get to the level that causes mild stimulation, that’s about the right dose to use for AFOAF anyway. For him that’s 3 drops, for others it’s going to be more I’m pretty sure.

The dosage used of the cinnamon oil needs to be enough to get euphoria from it, which is a little above the threshold dose of 3 drops for AFOAF. He needs 5 drops in this case.

Don’t follow my dosage guides. AFOAF normally gets strong effects from very tiny doses of most drugs. 90% of the people will need 3-10 times the dose he uses for nearly every psychoactive there is.

Last edited by 69Ron; 19-02-2011 at 19:51. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 14-03-2011, 18:58
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

NEW OILAHUASCA INHIBITOR MIX

After more testing by AFOAF, he’s come up with an oil mix that does a great job as an oilahuasca pre-dose for sassafras to help activate the safrole.

He uses 1-3 drops of clove leaf essential oil, 3-6 drops of German chamomile essential oil, and 5-10 drops of cinnamon bark essential oil. This is taken 30-60 minutes before taking the sassafras, and for good measure once again along with the sassafras. It’s best to take these pre-dose oilahuasca inhibitors in a capsule. Cinnamon can irritate your mouth. For AFOAF, cinnamon doesn’t irritate his mouth, but it does for some people.

Keep in mind that while CYP2A6, CYP2C9, and CYP2E1 are the main enzymes that inactivate safrole, others will pick up the slack if these are missing. By taking German chamomile oil and clove leaf oil, you ensure that most of the others that might pick up the slack are also inhibited.

Cinnamon bark oil takes care of CYP2A6 and CYP2E1 nicely, I don’t know if it can knock out CYP2C9. That’s where clove leaf comes in because it knocks out CYP2C9 very well along with CYP3A4, CYP1A1, and CYP1B1. Also German chamomile oil knocks out CYP1A2. By having CYP1A1, CYP1A2, CYP1B1, CYP2A6, CYP2C9, CYP2E1, and CYP3A4 inhibited while leaving CYP2D6 alone, you help ensure that safrole is not inactivated orally.

This oilahuasca pre-dose mix works very well for safrole, elemicin, methyl chavicol, and myristicin.

Another thing to add to the pre-dose is coffee. I’m not sure why but coffee also helps activate these psychedelic oils.
  #13  
Old 05-11-2011, 16:01
tehugly tehugly is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

69Ron would it be possible to take Emili oil with the Sassafras oil so you would get trippy from Emili but the euphoria from the Sassafras? Would this make for a better or worse psychedelic experience?
  #14  
Old 21-11-2011, 09:11
NOM.ZEB NOM.ZEB is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Hey 69ron has SWIY every vaporized and 5-ht2a agonists. Would the inhibitor still be necessary?
  #15  
Old 18-12-2011, 07:55
SpiceofLyfe SpiceofLyfe is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

1st I would like to thank 69ron for his many informative posts.
Tonight afoaf (175lb 6'3" male) tried oilahuasca for the first time.
Dose: t:0-1drop methyl chavicol, 1 drop cinnamon bark oil. Quite a bit of legit tracer activity, mood lift, trippy state, loss of focus
T: 1 hr a bit of letuca virosa, fell into a dreamy half there state
T: 3 hr awoke, consumed 1drop 91% elemicin/9%iso-elemicin, 1 drop methyl chavicol, 2 drops cinnamon bark oil
T: 4 hr itchy??? Could be due to some kratom consumed beforehand...
T: 5 hr took about 400mg of kavalactones to chill out and be ready for a good nights rest
Note: I take an irreversible maoi daily, so I'm starting with very low doses for safety. Tomorrow I intend to pick up some clove and German chamomile extracts for additional enzyme inhibition. More to follow.
Any suggestions??
  #16  
Old 25-12-2011, 14:00
Potter Potter is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

yeah, if you are taking an irreversible MAO-I you stop experimenting with EVERYTHING.

WAY TOO DANGEROUS. Especially all of the phenethlamines you have mentioned in this and other posts.

Do you know how you got a list of foods can't eat, yeah, that list should include most psychotropic drugs, legal, or otherwise.

Monomamine oxidase is what removes and breaks down drugs from the brain. With out it, they hang around until the body regrows the receptor (which won't happen if you keep taking them) meaning you keep tripping. There's not many reports from people who have experimented with psychedelics and irreversable MAO-Is, it is probably one of the riskiest things to be fooling around with.

Your doctor didn't explain hypertensive crisis issues?

I got to run, I'll dig up more later, but you need to cease fooling around with drugs.
  #17  
Old 26-12-2011, 05:23
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

@potter I appreciate your concern for afoafs safety! That is the foremost reason I came to this site, to keep my friends friends safe. I got new info from Afoaf today. He told my friend that he had been off the maoi inhibitor for over a week and the maoi inhibitor mentioned was in fact b. cappi tea. So just a RIMA. Also Peruvian torch was consumed incrementally, with two 1g balls being ingested every hour. Afoaf is aware of the no-go list for maois. He has never had a hypertensive crisis. Also his maoi of choice is 10mg/day selegiline. So I hope I eased your mind. Afoaf is careful, he understands(;
Thank you
  #18  
Old 19-06-2012, 18:27
Shanty Shanty is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Excellent, this is just the thread I was looking for....

I've read that the right Yarrow plant is a very effective cyp1a2 inhibitor. The plant synergies well with most things adding a slight psychedelic aspect to the experience, although I sense a some toxicity.

The Old Man has got a pint jar of fresh sass root sitting in his fridge in ice water for a cold water extraction. Thinking he will dip into his chamomile reserve, yarrow and cinnamon bark....
Looks like hell need to eat a good mouth full of cinnamon... Eh, in the name of science.

I think he'll predose with cinnamon over a day, make it easier on the body maybe. Make sure all things are effectively inhibited.

So Ron69.... You now think that the active component of sassafrass is infact the oil? Because the Old Man is doing the cold water extract based off of the nexus report, in hopes of avoiding as much of the oil as possible....
  #19  
Old 22-06-2012, 20:24
Shanty Shanty is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

Ok.
Swim has been prepping for the tea. He has been eating cinnamon throughout the day, a little homemade heady yarrow tincture (psycoactive on its own) and has some chamoile tea ready to drink. His cold sass tea is strong and ready to drink when it's time.
It should be noted that swim has also consuming green tea, ginkgo extract, mint leaf, cocoa, scullcap, Korean and Siberian ginseng, royal jelly... as part of a normal routine...
He may drink some Yerba mate along with the sass.... As he has a long car ride into the wilderness... He will probably smoke some reefer too ....

Anywho! Swim is quite sensitive to alterations in his body... So swim is going to be looking for something different going on. Not expecting much. a social, outgoing effect is desired... We will find out, considering swim is on many herbal stimulants already. Really hoping he doesn't just get a head ache...

Will report back in a few days when I return to civilization
  #20  
Old 24-06-2012, 09:00
PowerfulMedicine PowerfulMedicine is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

^Shanty, I just noticed that you also posted in this topic.

If you are using a cold water extracted tea then the inhibitors may not do anything as far as activating is concerned since this method will extract alkaloids and alkaloids are generally not metabolized by Cytochrome P450 enzymes.

Also, the info in this thread is outdated. This is the current understanding of what enzymes should be inhibited for safrole:

Vital to Inhibit: CYP1A2, CYP2A6, CYP3A4
Possibly helpful to inhibit: CYP2D6
Possibly helpful to induce: CYP2C9, CYP2C19, CYP2E1
  #21  
Old 28-06-2012, 23:13
Shanty Shanty is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

The Old Man is afraid he might have thrown off the whole experiment.

He drank the tea, cinnomon, chamomile, yarrow etc.

During the time when he was sober enough to feel it out, there were changes... psycadellic in nature. Although he can state with confidence they were strongest felt after indulging in Yarrow Tincture. Colors were enhanced, he became spacy (did this have somthing to do with the Chamomile?), at loss of words here and there. The colors could be explained by the yarrow, although there were certainly unqiue elements to the experiance, namely some much stronger effects that was almost like shutter vision. Overall he felt alive, at ease and confident.

He would have liked to let the game play out, but he was at a festival and errrmmm... well, people were giving him free drugs to take... and when in Rome.....

The tricky thing with MDMA and its lot (sassafrass) is that in small amounts it just feels so natural and underlying that most of the time you hardly can tell that there's an alteration despite whats really going on.

The Old man got what he wanted out of the experiment. He now knows how to make some real nice tasting tea that is a nice little pick-me-up. He wassnt looking to melt his face off. Just simply enjoy what the Earth around him has to offer.


The Old Man sensed an alteration of his mind from the tea.... There is a place held in the future for Sassafrass in Shantys old Shack.
  #22  
Old 06-02-2014, 01:20
Fetch432 Fetch432 is offline
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

could i use sassafras oil itself instead of extracting it myself with milk and lecithin from roots?
  #23  
Old 06-02-2014, 03:45
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Re: MDMA-like effects from sassafras + cinnamon + German chamomile?

You could just use the essential oil, but this procedure is out of date. There are more current methods for getting effects from safrole and related compounds that are supposed to work much better than the ones outlined in this thread. You should be able to find these methods by searching this and other forums.

But the new methods are still not fool proof by any means. And they are much more complicated. Don't expect to be able to get sassafras oil working without a lot of time, money, and effort.

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ayahuasca, chavicol, cyp1a2, cyp2d6, cyp3a4, drugs forum, elemi, elemi oil, elemicin, empathogen, ethnobotanical, german chamomile, harmine, mdma oil, methyl chavicol, myristicin, phenethylamine, psychedelics, stimulant, vaporized, visuals

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