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  #1  
Old 06-02-2011, 20:08
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Okay, we all know that heroin number 3 is base heroin and heroin number 4 is heroin salt (usually hcl). But what is heroin #s 1 and 2? I read somewhere (can't remember) that heroin number 2 is unreacted morphine base or morphine hcl but I'm not even sure about that. And I have no idea what #1 heroin is.

Does anyone know? I've searched this forum and google and found no information. I've acutally never heard of heroin #1 but I assume since there is a 2,3, and 4, there is a number 1.

I don't know if this is a chem question or not but I decided to post it in the heroin section incase someone with the answers didn't have access to chem.

Ideas and opinions are welcome but hard fact (with sources) would be great. They would really help.

Thanks, guys.

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I have pondered the same thing. Thanks for asking.
Just what I was looking for. Good question.
  #2  
Old 06-02-2011, 20:49
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

As far as I know, there isn't a no. 1 or no. 2 heroin oddly enough

Technically speaking, I think no. 1 would be morphine, and have read somewhere along the line that no. 2 is heroin acetate but I'm not sure?
Anyway, the 'numbers' apparently refer to the steps required to process:
no. 3 is the freebase form, and needs the addition of citric acid to convert it into a salt, making it water soluble/suitable to inject.
no. 4 is the salt form, so dissolves easily.

I'll see if I can find a source...

catseye added 12 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

Just read this on another forum, and it sounds sensible.

Quote:
The numbering system was devised by the US DEA in the very early 1970s and is as follows:

Heroin #1: Morphine Freebase or Morphine HCL

Heroin #2: Heroin Acetate or Heroin Freebase

Heroin #3: #4 heroin but specifically altered at the POM (Point of Manufacture) to make it conducive for smoking. The technical definition is a 60:40 mix, with 60 representing heroin hcl. and 40 representing caffeine hcl.

Heroin #4: Heroin hcl made specifically for injection.


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Awesome find! Exactly what was needed.
Thanks for this interesting explaination.
Good answer for a good question.
That's it. Thanks for the explanation.

Last edited by catseye; 06-02-2011 at 20:49. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #3  
Old 06-02-2011, 21:36
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Hmm, that's great info. I did not know that #3 was 40% caffeine. That's kinda shitty...

So #2, heroin acetate, would that be like black tar heroin? What I heard is that tar is just acetaylized (sp) opium.

edit, and so are UK users getting number 2 heroin instead? I always thought number 3 was base.

Last edited by Moving Pictures; 06-02-2011 at 21:37. Reason: edit
  #4  
Old 06-02-2011, 21:50
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

I read that tar is no. 4...but that would imply tar was ideal for injecting, which it isn't...so I'm confused about that one!

Western Europe including the UK gets no. 3. When you acetylate morphine you create heroin acetate (no. 2). If you add water and calcium carbonate it becomes heroin no. 3 I think?
arrgh...its too damn confusing, lol

I'm determined to find a definitive answer now cos y'all have got me thinking about this
  #5  
Old 06-02-2011, 22:00
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

But if heroin number 2 is H-acetate or base, then that is what Euro users are getting. If it was number 3 (h-hcl and caffiene) it would disolve in water without acid. Only a base won't disolve in water without acid.

This is getting pretty chem heavy and a lot of it is out of my league but I have a basic understanding of acids and bases. Heroin acetate is a heroin salt. It would disolve in water on it's own. You could basify it with lime or w/e but if that report is correct, it would still be heroin #2.

Now heroin base would be fine for smoking (vaping actually) but heroin hcl isn't ideal for it because it doesn't run well and can eaisly be snorted or shot. But mixing heroin hcl with caffeine would make it easier to smoke cus caffeine is supposed to make it run better. BUT #3 would still be able to disolve in water without acid. Unless the caffeine wasn't a salt but even so, it would just drop out and you'd get just heroin.

Confusing indeed.
  #6  
Old 06-02-2011, 22:51
Topman Topman is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Many users add acid without any thinking or even why, so if swiy did not try to dissolve H without acid nobody can be certant is it base or salt.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:08
Terrapinzflyer Terrapinzflyer is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Does anyone know how "crack Heroin" compares to the normal grades seen in the west?

It appears to be more or less limited to the middle east. (possibly parts of SE Asia as well)

It turns up in quite a few news stories out of Iran and surrounding countries...

From one of the reports:
Quote:
"Crystal" and "crack" heroin are the two commonest variants of the new generation of narcotics. They represent the most refined form of heroin, processed to 95 per cent purity at hi-tech laboratories. As a result, the accident news pages in the Iranian papers are full of reports of news of young people dying from these highly potent drugs. (Editor's note: the crystal and crack heroin available in Iran are not to be confused with two drugs common in the West - crack cocaine, a derivative of the South American coca plant, and "crystal meth," the synthetic drug methamphetamine.)
Anyone know more about this, how it compares to western heroin, or why it seems limited to a small arab region....?
  #8  
Old 07-02-2011, 01:12
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

^^ Here's a post about it from an Irainian member.

It seems to just be really compact pressed base heroin.
  #9  
Old 10-02-2011, 17:40
mickey_bee Gold member mickey_bee is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Thing's have definetly changed since that 70's DEA structuring, as they claim H3 is simply H4 mixed with caffeine - which it isn't, H3 base has to undergo further refining to become the salt form H4.

As far as swim knows, H1+2 are terms relating to the production of pure heroin. I.e. In order to produce H4, H3 must first be produced. Swim would guess that H1 + 2 would be something like morphine base and heroin acetate, or opium to morphine base - there's alot of stages and refining processes in the production of H3 and H4 - and the production of the two are essentially identical up until the final stage where H3 undergoes further refining and becomes H4.

But swim isn't certain, he just knows they broadly refer to steps in the refinement of heroin, from either opium or morphine base level, up to H4.

Swim also read that black tar heroin wasn't applicable to this scale, as it uses a different manufacturing process than the other types of heroin, and is essentially a very crude form of heroin, with high amounts of other opiates, besides actual diacetylmorphine.

Last edited by mickey_bee; 10-02-2011 at 17:49.
  #10  
Old 18-03-2011, 08:35
kasbeq kasbeq is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

This is a letter delivered in a dream


I could be wrong but I was always under impression that number
1 is morphine base(the base that is created after calcium carbonate and amonia are thrown in diluted opium to precipitate morphine)
2 is brown heroin base( when acetic anhydride and sodium carbonate is added)
3 is white heroin base( although not really white in color more leaning towards amber, this is the stuff that you find in European cities, and its created when number 2 is further processed by adding hydrochloric acid,activated carbon, ammonia solution)
4 being white heroin hydrochloride (and is created by ading acetone and further hydrochloric acid to number 3 )

As seen at the end of this document from D-F chemistry archives
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...atid=4&id=8628
  #11  
Old 19-03-2011, 21:27
Synaps Synaps is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

From Google cached version of http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162...heroinmfg.html , 16 Mar 2011 23:13:33 GMT

Quote:
III. Heroin manufacture

The complete conversion of raw opium to pure heroin hydrochloride (diacetylmorphine HCl) may be summarized as follows:
Purification of raw opium -->
extraction/purification of morphine from opium -->
conversion of morphine to heroin base -->
purification of heroin base and conversion to hydrochloride salt.
From this we can draw the assumption that the types are as follows:

Type #1: Opium
Type #2: Morphine base/HCL
Type #3: Heroin base (most suitable for smoking, the Afghan heroin on the European market which needs to be heated a bit with citric acid before injection is this type)
Type #4: Heroin HCL (white heroin)

To answer the original question, it is rare to encounter type #1 and #2 in the heroin market because they are not heroin.

Black tar heroin does not fit in here as it is uses a different method altogether to get from opium to heroin. This method does not utilize acetic anhydride (which is watched and hard to get) but regular acetic acid. It is easier, cruder. The product is not just heroin, but also 6-MAM and 3-MAM. 6-MAM is more potent than heroin and 3-MAM is less potent than heroin.
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Old 21-03-2011, 00:59
neversummer neversummer is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Why would #2 be morphine, heroin metabolizes to morphine. heroin is just morphine with two extra acetic acid groups. Seems like its classified wrong, as in any opiate is a heroin number because morphine makes heroin
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Old 22-09-2011, 08:30
scottd420 scottd420 is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

I always went by the 70's DEA guide, but I guess that's not what I thought.
The above poster is right, tar manufacturing only using glacial acetic acid which can be in the high 90 percentile in purity, but it doesn't do a good of a job at acetylizing heroin--hence getting 6-MAM and 3-MAM. (3-MAM being inactive actually)
  #14  
Old 11-12-2013, 15:52
MadOne MadOne is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

I think kasbeq may be bang on the money there because the is deffinatly a differance between the old fashoned type of brown heroin and the newer smokable freebased heroin as it tends to always be a off white colour these days and purity can reach as high as around the 90% pure mark at source. Heroin number 1 i think must be a referance to the morphine base or morphine salt.

I read somewhere that this is a precursor drug usually around the 85% pure mark and is never normally used by drug users and addicts unless you got friends in afghanistan that prefer morphine over heroin. Back Tar im 99% sure that is just essentially opium that has had the morphine inside it converted into other various stronger alkaloids.

Peace out peeps.
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Old 11-12-2013, 23:53
Cwb20022 Cwb20022 is offline
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Re: What is heroin numbers 1 and 2

Heroin purity has been classified into four grades. No.4 is the purest form – white powder (salt) to be easily dissolved and injected. No.3 is "brown sugar" for smoking (base). No.1 and No.2 are unprocessed raw heroin (salt or base).[79]
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acetic acid, afghan, black tar, black tar heroin, diacetylmorphine, drugs, drugs-forum, freebasing, glacial acetic acid, heroin, heroin base, heroin types, heroine, making heroin, pure heroin, purifying heroin, smoking heroin, types of heroin

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