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  #1  
Old 05-02-2011, 05:43
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

First it must be stated that this is NOT a thread for, or about, discussing/asking/telling "how to cut heroin." So please, at the very least, thoroughly read this whole post, consider the ramifications I spell out, and then afterwards go ahead and decide whether you still want to report it or neg rep.

I have a very important question, relating to the immediate safety of DF heroin-using members, and the international heroin community at large.

Does anyone know about, or has anyone heard of or suspected the existence of some type of additive, or "cut," mixed with powdered street heroin to make it cook up browner?

The vast majority of the time, the browner the heroin turns when it hits the water and/or cooks up, the stronger it is. This is at least regarding most of the H4 heroin available in the U.S. This brown color is likewise commonly associated in the minds and general culture of heroin users as indicating a desirable source/batch of heroin.

Clearly the motivation for dealers to use such a browning additive would be to make their heroin look more potent; although obviously it would not affect the end result. Nonetheless dealers have a number of marketing schemes which undoubtedly work to some degree, things every heroin user has seen before: adding 50% more cut just to make their bags look bigger, splitting normal 1 bag into 2 small bags, and calling it a "two for one," etc. The point being that if dealers had some easy way to color the heroin browner, some significant percentage would certainly do it.

So to reiterate the question, knowing that it is likely something dealers would do if possible: Has anyone heard of anything like this in their channels of heroin knowledge/experience/cultural exposure? Hedgehog never has, and was wondering if it was perhaps something he missed out on?

This is a very serious matter if it does exist, or especially if it is a new thing heroin users are unaware of. This is not about "cutting heroin," but about a potentially deadly situation. I believe it warrants discussion, knowledge sharing, and exposure for two main reasons:

(1) Many heroin users gauge their dose by the color of the heroin liquid in the needle. They become accustomed to knowing roughly what shade is their "dose," what shade is too little, and what shade is probably too much. No need to argue the merits of this system, it is a fact regardless. A significant danger exists where a heroin user getting low-potency, artificially browned dope would falsely believe themselves to be at a much higher level of heroin tolerance, and would likely OD if they were exposed to regular-potency heroin of the same dark brown shade.

(2) I can't imagine many "browning agents" that could be harmless on the body; or even, at best, close to an equal "harmlessness" as typical heroin cut. In hedgehog's experience the vast majority of dealers do not use blatantly and imminently harmful cuts, but he has also seen on occasion a number of bizarre and ignorant and/or dangerous cuts. He's seen flower a handful of times, and other unknown substances which just turn to goo. On topic, more than a few times and especially in the recent past, he is fairly sure his dope was cut with brown sugar (grainyness, smell, residue, and not dissolving unless brought to a simmer). If this is happening, particularly if it is a new and growing trend, it would be crucial for heroin users to know about it, and hopefully learn to identify it. In the case of brown sugar, hedgehog is certain that injecting pure sugar into your body is an absolutely horrible thing to do for a number of reasons, and could potentially be fatal to some.

Hedgehog asks because, as he mentioned, he has been coming across heroin which cooks up extremely carmel-ly brown from a single bag, of the same shade and color as kind of shots he only used to get when he was cooking up 3+ bags at a time, of really good heroin on top of it. He barely has a bag a day tolerance, and some of these super brown shots are extremely weak.

Hence this leads him to wonder whether there is some new thing out there in the heroin world of dealers adding something to the dope to make it brown. Which in turn lead him to think about how many lives such a thing could cost over the long run. Albiet by different means, it could lead to the same rash-of-ODs as fentanyl cut dope. And it is something unlikely to be discovered mainstream, and would continue to be a danger, but could possibly be pieced together here on the DF.

I hope this thread will be left open because I think it is potentially, to the degree it exists, a pressing matter, the anticipation of which matches the core spirit of harm reduction the DF is about, more so than it can be inaccurately twisted into something about "how to cut" which needs to be closed (also remembering that the prohibition was limited to that - not that using the word "cut" is like saying "bomb" on an airplane now). Again, please read the entire post in context.

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Potentially excellent harm reduction thread and I truely hope some factual info is brought to light on this matter.

Last edited by dyingtomorrow; 05-02-2011 at 05:55.
  #2  
Old 05-02-2011, 06:21
junkbox junkbox is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Wow! SWIM has never actually heard of this, but it sounds quite possible & very dangerous! SWIM has always related color with potency & if dealers know this information they are bound to try to cut it with something that makes it darker. This is scary to think about, but SWIM is glad SWIY brought this up, its a good thing to think about! SWIM has had some of the same experiences as SWIdt, such as the darker shots not being as good as expected & also the 'graininess' left in the cooker/spoon. SWIM wishes she could provide the answers asked for, she thinks that this is a good thing to think about & try to figure out, and its highly highly likely. Thanks SWIdt for making such valid points, and really make SWIM start thinking.
  #3  
Old 05-02-2011, 07:33
TarBaby TarBaby is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Does the heroin just cook up brown or does it look like that in powder form as well?
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:08
Holly021255 Holly021255 is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

SWIH knows someone who cuts/deals heroin, and often witnesses the cutting process occuring so she's seen a few different additives. Like SWIdt stated, flour and brown sugar are common agents, and ones that turn particularly brown when heated include cocoa powder, espresso powder, instant coffee, etc. Not to go off topic, but interesting that the OP mentioned "browner=better" rule (for H4 at least), as it seems like this is a strictly East Coast/South/Midwest thing. SWIH lives on the West Coast, and the vast majority of dope here (probably 90%) is black tar, and lighter generally means better, although SWIH is able to find H4, and the browner it is, the purer the quality is true in this case.
  #5  
Old 05-02-2011, 16:50
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

The/A typical Cut Agent is Phenacetin or Paracetamol (both are Hepatoxic)as well as Caffeine (but less)!

This is the typical and actual Cut in Western Europe as well as for the Afghan Heroin trafficked to the US!

But i have one more Info;
Quote:
Heroin: What’s In the Mix? (US of A.)
Heroin abuse is a public health problem within the United
States. Heroin intoxication has a well-recognized toxicity
syndrome involving central nervous system depression,
respiratory depression, and pupillary constriction. However,
over the past decade, our poison control center has encountered
several heroin adulterants that changed the toxicity syndrome
observed after overdose.

In the late 1990s, contamination of heroin with the
anticholinergic drug scopolamine led to heroin overdose victims
presenting with unusual manifestations of hallucination,
mydriasis, tachycardia, and dry mucous membranes.

1 More recently, a heroin-laced acetaminophen and diphenhydramine
mixture known as “cheese” has become a popularized heroin
source for inexperienced users, and may also produce notable
anticholinergic features.

2 An epidemic of naloxone-resistant heroin overdoses due to
fentanyl adulteration has led to significant morbidity and
mortality throughout the central and eastern United States.
According to records of the Philadelphia County Medical
Examiner’s office, at least 250 overdose deaths have been
associated with fentanyl between April 1, 2006, and March 1,2007.

At our poison control center, xylazine
, an alpha-2
adrenergic agonist which may produce pupil constriction and
somnolence mimicking heroin effects, has also been found as an
occasional contaminant of heroin.
Quote:
Xylazine is a clonidine analoque. It acts on presynaptic and postsynaptic receptors of the central and peripheral nervous systems as an a 2-adrenergic agonist. It is used primarily for sedation, anesthesia, analgesia and muscle relaxation but it has numerous other pharmacological effects. Most of these effects consist of bradycardia and hypotension. Xylazine inhibits the effects of postganglionic nerve stimulation.
Sounds Interesting

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for providing very useful information and harm reduction for the thread

Last edited by Spucky; 05-02-2011 at 17:07.
  #6  
Old 05-02-2011, 17:11
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Friend once got dope that was cut with powdered brown gravey mix. You could smell it. It cooked up dark as hell but was shit. Had to heat it alot to get it to disolve and you could actually taste the brown gravey when you shot it like when you shoot crack with vineger and you can taste it.

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Old 05-02-2011, 17:21
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

This all seems rather speculative. Is there any strong reason or evidence to suspect that such a cut exists and that it is affecting a significant amount of the heroin in circulation?

Surely the observation of the hedgehog only confirms that "brownness" is not a good indicator of potency? Starting low and working upwards must be the best practice for assessing the strength of a new batch, especially considering that any batch could also be cut with fentanyl or similarly potent actives.
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Old 05-02-2011, 17:28
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
This all seems rather speculative. Is there any strong reason or evidence to suspect that such a cut exists and that it is affecting a significant amount of the heroin in circulation?
All Heroin is cut,
a exchange of Information about "Cuts" can be very useful and real Harm Reduction!
  #9  
Old 05-02-2011, 17:33
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: AW: Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spucky View Post
All Heroin is cut,
a exchange of Information about "Cuts" can be very useful and real Harm Reduction!
I understand that. I am referring to this postulated cut that has the express purpose of making the substance appear more brown.

The fact that some brown looking heroin gave underwhelming results doesn't immediately point to the existence of such a cut in my opinion. It could just demonstrate that the color is not a strong indication of potency and should not be used as such. This is why I'm asking if there is anything more substantial that points to the existence of this particular type of cut?
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Old 05-02-2011, 17:33
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Well, I will say gravey powder is not a common cut because the smell is way too distinctive. My friend only got it once and it was from a newbie junkie trying to sell to support his habit and cut his shit with the first thing in his kitchen that looked remotly like heroin.
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Old 05-02-2011, 17:36
Descartesx Descartesx is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

In the Uk, there have been a couple of anecdotal reports of brick dust being used to darken the colour of the end result of heroin. Though this has been more recently overlooked because of anthrax scares in Scottish Heroin. Will look for rescources and post back as soon as possible.
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Old 05-02-2011, 17:37
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Re: AW: Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenoxide View Post
I understand that. I am referring to this postulated cut that has the express purpose of making the substance appear more brown.
Quote:
The/A typical Cut Agent is Phenacetin or Paracetamol (both are Hepatoxic)as well as Caffeine (but less)!
Both of them made the Heroin-Melange "brown"!
(Spoon/ Foil)

Edit; I am sorry, i needed to Re-read your Post, now i understand it
  #13  
Old 05-02-2011, 17:43
Descartesx Descartesx is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Here's a link to an article from the BBC on dealers turning to brick dust to cut heroin with.
Drug dealers in Wolverhampton are selling brick dust as heroin, possibly as a result of the Taleban's collapse in Afghanistan. The trade came to light after an addict told police he bought the substance from a dealer in the Low Hill area of the city, believing it was heroin. Subsequent tests revealed the packet contained pure brick dust. Now this may be just to bulk out the heroin, rather than add the desired colour to it but my fennec fox's friends have found that the whiter heroin in the midlands is stronger than that of a brown colour. That said, the fox's friends always look to purify whatever product they have so as to judge dose properly.

Here's the BBC link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/1791507.stm


Descartesx added 3 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

Here's a useful guide my fennec fox's friends have used to remove impurities from their street heroin. My fox hopes you make use of this and always cross reference to make sure the steps in it are accurate ( we all make mistakes sometimes. )

http://www.heroinhelper.com/curious/...g_heroin.shtml

Last edited by Descartesx; 05-02-2011 at 17:43. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #14  
Old 06-02-2011, 04:34
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
Friend once got dope that was cut with powdered brown gravey mix. You could smell it. It cooked up dark as hell but was shit. Had to heat it alot to get it to disolve and you could actually taste the brown gravey when you shot it like when you shoot crack with vineger and you can taste it.
Wow, thanks for that info, that really pieced something together for Hedgehog. Thinking back, Hedgehog is absolutely positive he has gotten dope a couple times (albiet out of the thousands of times he scored) that was definitely some kind of brown gravy mix you are talking about. Remembering the distinct smell, color (brownish-yellow), and "goo" qualities, it had to have been the same thing.

And thanks for confirming those things Holly, Hedgehog knew that coffee was used as a black tar cut, but not that it was known among H4 dealers to use it, or brown sugar or any other browning agents.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:43
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

I really doubt that People use Coffee and/or Brown Sugar as a cutting Agent,
maybe "Chump Change Dealer" do it but not even Semi Professionals!

Ps; there is a difference between pharmaceutical Caffeine and Coffee
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:03
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

SWIM knew a dealer that would cut his dope with coffee. As soon as swim found out he lost that number. It really sucks to think my friend swim was putting coffee in his veins.
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Old 08-02-2011, 17:08
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

SWIM knows, that down here, in San Diego CA, they are cutting the Tar with Brown Sugar, also Suboxone is a new cut they are using, other types of pills as well, and also Milk Lactose.. Those are the ones I know for sure, as well as Vinegar.
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Old 08-02-2011, 18:10
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

when people use suboxone as a cutting agent
they will send their customer into a rapid
withdrawal, i doubt this!

for the real cutting agent people need to
research in police sources, the undoc, etc.
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Old 08-02-2011, 18:58
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Re: AW: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spucky View Post
I really doubt that People use Coffee and/or Brown Sugar as a cutting Agent,
maybe "Chump Change Dealer" do it but not even Semi Professionals!

Ps; there is a difference between pharmaceutical Caffeine and Coffee
In the southeastern border region of Arizona and Mexico, I.E. Douglas/Nogales corridor-both of these are actually fairly commonly used as a cutting agent when brown product is available. Oddly enough, it usually happens before it comes across the line, too. From what my friend Nanook has always been told, the reasoning behind this is that the Mexican groups involved in this trade will sell you anything, but they prefer you to buy their product, which is black tar. Hence, they cut the shit out of everything else, in order to make their personal product that much more appealing.

Professionalism among drug dealers is an odd sounding concept. Similar, I assume, to honor among thieves. Nanook's experience is solely limited to Mexican traffickers and border regions however, so that colors his attitude somewhat.
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Old 08-02-2011, 21:57
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbalgerbals View Post
SWIM knows, that down here, in San Diego CA, they are cutting the Tar with Brown Sugar, also Suboxone is a new cut they are using, other types of pills as well, and also Milk Lactose.. Those are the ones I know for sure, as well as Vinegar.
This didn't make sense to my buddy dale either. Using Suboxone as a cut is a sure fire way to lose good business haha.
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Old 08-02-2011, 23:12
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

I would tend to agree about the darker the gear once cooked the stronger it would be , although swims had heroin maybe a handful of times that cooked up very light , almost the colour of weak lager and it was dynamite , however , in the uk , we're ( hopefully ) at the back end of a drought , during which a lot of the gear was cut with something making it solidify within 10 seconds of drawing it up also some that was a very fluffy almost white powder that ended up perfectly liquidised in the pin but was jet black , which in itself isnt harmful , however if you're one of those people who inject in the groin region it made it very difficult to tell if it was dark blood you were drawing up or the lighter artery blood and we all know what its like to push even a miniscule amount into an artery, i have felt like ive been shot ans someone has set my jacobs on fire b4 now , sp please be careful is you come acrossd the black stuff.
a little rhyme has served me well re: drawing blood back b4 injecting and it goes : "If it's pink, think. If it's red , go ahead ! "
be careful everyone and here's to the end of the drought , my pet salamander , Bernard , has put the kettle on , so it's a cup of tea for him and a dig of the best gear he's had in probably 6 months ........... what's that Bernard you've got a load of 10mg diazepam and you think you're gonna have 6 of them and 90mg of mirtazipine which react nicely together , you lucky little salamander you x
  #22  
Old 17-02-2011, 19:01
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbalgerbals View Post
SWIM knows, that down here, in San Diego CA, they are cutting the Tar with Brown Sugar, also Suboxone is a new cut they are using, other types of pills as well, and also Milk Lactose.. Those are the ones I know for sure, as well as Vinegar.
Nothing is cut with vinegar. Vinegar would disolve the dope. The reason it smells like vinegar is because of an excess of acetic acid (the acid that is in vinegar and gives it its smell) used in the production.

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  #23  
Old 17-02-2011, 20:11
Madhat Madhat is offline
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Re: Danger of an Additive / "Cut" Which Makes Heroin Cook Up Browner?

I once met a junkie on a train who said he saw similar cuts in Virgina not too long ago. After some investigation, that cut was found to be espresso powder. He wound up having to find a better source since he didn't really trust putting that crap near his veins once he knew what it was.

It definitely fooled him at the time though. He was all excited on the way home only to be disappointed when he got there. Luckily he had enough to fix him for that day.

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afghan, afghan heroin, dangerous cut, heroin cut, heroin cutting agents, heroin od, making heroin, opioid, opioid research chemicals, research chemical, research chemicals

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