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LSA seeds LSA containing seeds like Morning Glory, Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, Rivea corymbosa

 
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  #1  
Old 18-01-2011, 06:31
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Preventing Vasoconstriction

Well swim has just now starting to get a little interested in a little thing called LSA. He noticed during one of his experiments many years ago that he had noticably irritating vasoconstriction. That caused him to have severe leg cramping for a few minutes. He didnt like that too much as it was really bad.

After looking about it seems that every place can describe exactly what it is and what drugs cause this. But cant find anywhere how to prevent it.

Question now, does anyone know what substances, foods, or techniques be used to prevent vasoconstriction while using LSA. Right now it seems to be its only flaw. So clearing up that would make swim a happy camper.

After getting many responses swim decided to start to list them for others to have easy access to:

- Kratom
- Cayenne Pepper (800mg crushed and capsulized)
- Kola Nut
- Niacin
- Yohimbe
- Cannabis
- Hot Showers
- Benzodiazapines
- Dark Chocolate
- Garlic Cloves
- Peppermint Cold Water Infusion
- Ginseng
- Caffeine (?)
- Ibuprofen

If anyone would like to swim to add or edit please let him know.

Peace

Last edited by Ghetto_Chem; 20-02-2012 at 00:49.
  #2  
Old 18-01-2011, 06:38
Potter Potter is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

I think caffeine is a good admixture, not only is it a vaso-dilator, but it counters the sedative effects of the LSA.

Hot showers are also good.

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  #3  
Old 18-01-2011, 06:39
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Cannabinoids are great vasodilators which would most definitely ease the symptoms along with enhance the experience over all.
  #4  
Old 18-01-2011, 13:54
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Thanx so much to both of ya,

Great examples, and its nice to know they are called vaso-dilators lol. And both a easy to get for just about everyone else reading this. Which would be considered "best"?

Now that its mentioned swims friend didnt smoke as much as he usually does the night of the vasoconstriction.

Does anyone have any stories of really bad vasoconstriction during an LSA trip that caused any concern?

Peace
  #5  
Old 18-01-2011, 15:30
organic_chemist organic_chemist is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto_Chem View Post
Well swim has just now starting to get a little interested in a little thing called LSA. He noticed during one of his experiments many years ago that he had noticably irritating vasoconstriction. That caused him to have severe leg cramping for a few minutes. He didnt like that too much as it was really bad.

After looking about it seems that every place can describe exactly what it is and what drugs cause this. But cant find anywhere how to prevent it.

Question now, does anyone know what substances, foods, or techniques be used to prevent vasoconstriction while using LSA. Right now it seems to be its only flaw. So clearing up that would make swim a happy camper.

Peace
Benzodiazepines would probably be the best way to go, and possibly safer than other drugs which can induce vasodilation (eg. calcium channel blockers, beta blockers). Swim's FOAF has used diazepam to overcome sympathomimetic symptoms with LSA, LSD, and Psilocybin with no problems. Dosage would be around 1.5-2mg initially, and topping up with 0.5-1mg every 2/3 hours or so for duration of LSA experience.

Last edited by organic_chemist; 18-01-2011 at 15:49.
  #6  
Old 19-01-2011, 06:32
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Very interesting,

Benzos are something that could mix well with a trip for swim. But can the same effects be achieved at levels lower than needed to experience effects. Swim has access to lorazepam will this work the same?

Swim thinks that benzos could be good but wouldnt want to take a full dose as something like LSA is sedating as is. Swim would have to speedball it with caffeine lol.

This is good info tho guys anymore drugs that anyone knows of?

Peace
  #7  
Old 19-01-2011, 07:09
torachi torachi is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Benzo's would unfortunately probably terminate the trip, or at least dull it.

Dark chocolate is known as a vasodilator.

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  #8  
Old 19-01-2011, 23:19
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Ya thats what swim was thinking, so dark chocolate?

What would be a good amount of dark chocolate. At the moment it seems the most feasible in terms of availability and not messing with the trip. Cannabis being second, caffeine third. Caffeine is easier to obtain then cannabis but would probably make the side effects of the trip worse the buds. Caffeine is still a good option too.

Basically whatever a persons into.

Peace
  #9  
Old 19-01-2011, 23:45
torachi torachi is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

The mugwump cannot comment from personal experience, but found this study (can't find a non-.gov source, so it is not linked yet) that uses 40 grams of 70% cocoa dark chocolate.

Quote:
Dark chocolate improves coronary vasomotion and reduces platelet reactivity.

Flammer AJ, Hermann F, Sudano I, Spieker L, Hermann M, Cooper KA, Serafini M, Lüscher TF, Ruschitzka F, Noll G, Corti R.

Cardiovascular Center, Cardiology, University Hospital Zurich, Raemistr 100, CH-8091 Zurich, Switzerland.


Circulation. 2007 Nov 20;116(21):2360-2.

Abstract

BACKGROUND: Dark chocolate has potent antioxidant properties. Coronary atherosclerosis is promoted by impaired endothelial function and increased platelet activation. Traditional risk factors, high oxidative stress, and reduced antioxidant defenses play a crucial role in the pathogenesis of atherosclerosis, particularly in transplanted hearts. Thus, flavonoid-rich dark chocolate holds the potential to have a beneficial impact on graft atherosclerosis.

METHODS AND RESULTS: We assessed the effect of flavonoid-rich dark chocolate compared with cocoa-free control chocolate on coronary vascular and platelet function in 22 heart transplant recipients in a double-blind, randomized study. Coronary vasomotion was assessed with quantitative coronary angiography and cold pressor testing before and 2 hours after ingestion of 40 g of dark (70% cocoa) chocolate or control chocolate, respectively. Two hours after ingestion of flavonoid-rich dark chocolate, coronary artery diameter was increased significantly (from 2.36+/-0.51 to 2.51+/-0.59 mm, P<0.01), whereas it remained unchanged after control chocolate. Endothelium-dependent coronary vasomotion improved significantly after dark chocolate (4.5+/-11.4% versus -4.3+/-11.7% in the placebo group, P=0.01). Platelet adhesion decreased from 4.9+/-1.1% to 3.8+/-0.8% (P=0.04) in the dark chocolate group but remained unchanged in the control group.

CONCLUSIONS: Dark chocolate induces coronary vasodilation, improves coronary vascular function, and decreases platelet adhesion 2 hours after consumption. These immediate beneficial effects were paralleled by a significant reduction of serum oxidative stress and were positively correlated with changes in serum epicatechin concentration.


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  #10  
Old 20-01-2011, 04:46
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Swims robot txted him this:

Thats a great study found there, seems that it does work according to scientists at least. Next time swim doses LSA hes going to consume dark chocolate and will relate how he gets affected. Isnt chocolate an MAOI as well or is swim remembering wrong?

Peace
  #11  
Old 20-01-2011, 05:09
torachi torachi is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

According to 'ask erowid'...

Quote:
Q: Greetings,
There has been a long standing myth in my area regarding eating chocolate on MDMA. I've read that use of an MAOI with chocolate can be risky, but MDMA isn't actually a MAOI, right?

A: The primary interaction to be aware of is mixing MAOIs with MDMA. This should be avoided.

MDMA is not an MAOI. There is, however, a persistent rumor that chocolate itself is an MAOI. The primary support given for this seems to be something that Terence McKenna once said about the Mayan custom of mixing chocolate with mushrooms (suggesting they did this to potentiate the mushrooms with the chocolate). Regardless, we have not been able to find any solid evidence that chocolate is, in fact, an MAOI.

The point of confusion is certainly that chocolate contains caffeine and theobromine, whose effects may be increased when taken in combination with an MAOI. Many sources suggest that chocolate should not be eaten incombination with prescription MAOIs, although the levels of caffeine and theobromine are low enough that reliable sources generally say it is safe in combination with MAOIs unless the chocolate is eaten in large quantities.

Many people get confused between MAOIs, and the foods and medications which should not be mixed with them. As neither MDMA nor chocolate are MAOIs, combining them should not be a problem. We have never received a report of health problems resulting from mixing chocolate with MDMA.
The response, as far as chocolate having MAOI activity, would probably be the same for LSA as well as MDMA.
  #12  
Old 20-01-2011, 06:21
Potter Potter is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

I will have been working on the cacao wiki and have more detailed information on the MAO-I chemistry of cacao. I have a feeling they inhibit the destruction of ananadamide, so they may not be a concern for tryptamines or phenyethylamines. I've seen people consume LSA with, how shall we say "heroic" amounts of raw cacao with little ill effect.
on.

Page me next week to remind me to get back to this.
  #13  
Old 20-01-2011, 13:37
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Now that torachi posts that swim has remembered seeing it now,

Speaking of chocolate real quick something interesting, swims been getting these chocolate edibles that are made with some bomb blueberry buds. They are cheap and easy to get.

For some reason swim got super addicted to them for a short period of time, like he literally had no self control with them. He usually doesnt like chocolate that much but he thinks that the chocolate and bud combo gives an effect that has somewhat addictive properties. Well swim eventually just said fuck it and had a little bit of withdraw for like 2 days. He got really bad acne for those 2-3 days and was irritable. Cocoa withdrawal?

Lil off topic sorry people just thought potter might like to know about a quick story of cocoa addiction that happened by accident.

Swim is going to try LSA in a week or so and will post his trials with dark chocolate and LSA.

Peace
  #14  
Old 20-01-2011, 17:21
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Potter View Post
I think caffeine is a good admixture, not only is it a vaso-dilator, but it counters the sedative effects of the LSA.

Hot showers are also good.
Swim is wondering what if someone has high blood pressure doesn't LSA increase it and then caffeine would increase it even more ...
  #15  
Old 20-01-2011, 20:09
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

To be honest,

Swim was kinda wondering something similar, and then he checked and according to wikipedia (take as you'd like) caffeine is a vasoconstrictor like other stimulants are.

So swim would say that cannabis and black chocolate are best.

Peace
  #16  
Old 25-01-2011, 01:46
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

According to 69Ron in another thread on LSA,

Niacin is great for blocking vasoconstriction. Also a small amount of yohimbe (about ½ a tsp of bark) works well for blocking the vasoconstriction, and also makes the trip more like LSD. Niacin is safer to mix with it though. Too much yohimbe is not good.

Just more info to help this thread grow,

Peace
  #17  
Old 25-01-2011, 02:42
69Ron 69Ron is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Another pretty safe vasodilator is cayenne pepper at about 800 mg taken in a capsule (not diluted). This causes vasodilation, and also a release of adrenalin, so it makes the trip more speedy, more LSD-like. The effect is short lived though.

Cayenne also goes well with the psychedelic oils elemicin, methyl chavicol, and nutmeg oil.

While on the subject, it should be noted that elemicin, methyl chavicol, and nutmeg oil potentiate the effects of LSA/LSH, so be careful mixing them. Even small "inactive" doses will potentate the effects of LSA/LSH. I've seen people take elemicin, get no effects, and then take HBWR and trip SUPER HARD.

Kola nut is also a vasodilator. It goes better with LSA/LSH than coffee does. SWIM found it to increase the euphoria.

SWIM found caffeine to be very poor at counteracting the nasty sedative effects of LSA. Yohimbe is great for that, and so is cayenne pepper. Another one to fight the sedative effects is methyl chavicol (taken with 5 grams German chamomile of course, otherwise it too will cause sedation).



Check out this recipe called Wasted Space (this recipe is from another guy on another forum)

1 tsp peppermint leaf
1/4 cup German chamomile flowers
A few HBWR seeds (use about 1/3 what you normally would use)
1 capsule filled with 200 mg of methyl chavicol (about 10 drops, or use basil oil high in methyl chavicol)
1 capsule filled with 800 mg of cayenne pepper

Mix peppermint, German chamomile, and crushed HBWR seeds in 12 ounces of COLD water. Let steep a few hours. Strain, and press while straining. Discard the solids. Sweeten a little. Take the two capsules with the cold tea.

I think the idea is that the peppermint will theoretically cause the LSA in the HBWR seeds to form LSH. The German chamomile changes the mehtyl chavicol from a sedative to a phenethylamine-like stimulant (with mild psychedelic effects) which is very capable of blocking the sedative effects of the LSA. The cayenne blocks the vasoconstriction effects of the HBWR seeds, and also adds some adrenalin to the mix. SWIM has not tried this yet but a trusted friend says it produces the most LSD-like experience he's ever had from herbs.

EDIT: Keep in mind that psychedelic oils like elemicin, myristicin, and methyl chavicol can greatly potentiate the effects of HBWR seeds. So if you try Wasted Space, DO NOT use your normal HBWR dose. The potentiation varies from person to person. Ease into it starting with a low dose. Some people find the potentiation to be as much as 2-5 times. There is a member report on this forum of a user combining basil oil and German chamomile, and then later taking LSA/LSH containing seeds and tripping much harder than expected. There is also a report on this forum of this happening with a guy using elemicin after taking the seeds. So the potentiation seem to be possible at any point during the LSA/LSH trip.

Last edited by 69Ron; 25-01-2011 at 05:30.
  #18  
Old 25-01-2011, 02:50
torachi torachi is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

According to Drugs Forum Wiki Kratom can contain the following:

Mitraphylline - Vasodilator, antihypertensive, muscle relaxer, diuretic, anti-amnesic, possible immunostimulant

Rhynchophylline - Vasodilator, antihypertensive, calcium channel blocker, antiaggregant, anti-inflammatory, antipyretic, anti-arrhythmic, antithelmintic

plus many other varying sedatives, anticonvulsants, muscle relaxers and other good stuff.
  #19  
Old 25-01-2011, 20:33
Ghetto_Chem Ghetto_Chem is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Swims started to compile a list at the top in effort to make the thread just a little bit better. Feel free to post any more that need to be listed. Thanx to all for the suggestions swim will have alot to work with on his next experiments .

Peace

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Great work organizing the threads contents into the top post, this should be applied across the board, may significantly improve DF's useabilty.
  #20  
Old 17-03-2011, 11:15
saos saos is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Because i didnt UTFSE properly, i missed this thread and started my own on the same subject. One should be more careful before opening a thread. Any mods reading this please delete http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=156905

Anyway some suggestions from other swimmers and myself
-ginseng
-peppermint cold water infusion
-garlic cloves

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Glad to hear garlic cloves prevent Vasoconstriction as well, other good suggestions too.

Last edited by saos; 17-03-2011 at 11:21.
  #21  
Old 19-02-2012, 17:21
kingkui12 kingkui12 is offline
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Ibuprofen (advil) is a vasodilator. Since it also relieves pain, it would help with any cramps that are already present

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thanks for useful input
  #22  
Old 25-02-2012, 03:49
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

SWIM took a hot shower on his recent high dose Ololiuqui trip. He thought it was was nice and felt good when he got out. He's never really been able to pinpoint exactly what vasoconstruction feels like, but whatever it is he thinks a hot shower could certainly help.
  #23  
Old 02-09-2013, 01:16
happy_cofee happy_cofee is offline
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happy_cofee is captain of the psychonauts.happy_cofee is captain of the psychonauts.happy_cofee is captain of the psychonauts.
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

I'm inclined to give LSA a try, but don't want to be put at risk because of the vasoconstriction effects.
Just to throw it to your way, research says celery has vasodilating properties. It does have a very strong taste though and some people hate it. I don't completely hate it (I mean, it's good in cooking) but the thought of shallowing celery juice is slightly off putting.
However, with all the stuff in the list, dosage needs to be decided. For example, I love garlic and I am very comfortable eating a few cloves, especially if having a pinch of salt and a splash of olive oil with it (do try it, it's delicious) will not cause adverse effects. But how many is enough to counter the vasoconstriction problem? Same goes with celery juice, if it even has some immediate vasodilating action. There was even a guy somewhere claiming that none of said remedies (garlic, chocolate, celery) worked.
Suggested doses of easy to obtain, otc, not suspicious things mentioned on that list would be very much appreciated.

EDIT: apparently, ginger is supposed to have vasodilating properties. It sure is an antiemetic so that's an added bonus I guess. Perhaps using a ginger tea (instead of plain water) to make the CWE can help?

Last edited by happy_cofee; 02-09-2013 at 01:36.
  #24  
Old 19-11-2013, 22:28
Waiting For The Fall Waiting For The Fall is nu online
Titanium Member
 
Join Date: 27-07-2013
69 y/o Male from USA - Texas
Posts: 348
Waiting For The Fall really adds to the discussion.Waiting For The Fall really adds to the discussion.Waiting For The Fall really adds to the discussion.Waiting For The Fall really adds to the discussion.Waiting For The Fall really adds to the discussion.Waiting For The Fall really adds to the discussion.
Points: 908, Level: 4 Points: 908, Level: 4 Points: 908, Level: 4
Activity: 14.2% Activity: 14.2% Activity: 14.2%
Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

I use another stimulant that also is a vasoconstrictor. To help relieve this effect, I take the L-Arginine, L-Citrulline Complex. It produces more Nitric Oxide in the bloodstream and in turn, opens up the vascular walls. For cramping, I take additional potassium.
  #25  
Old 19-11-2013, 22:43
el duderino el duderino is offline
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el duderino is an unknown quantity at this point
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Re: Preventing Vasoconstriction

Rebreathe CO2 from a bag. Raising CO2 levels in bloodstream dilates blood vessels. Obvioulsy still mix in some O2 breaths as well....

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Hadn't thought of this, very clever, good contribution

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chavicol, hawaiian baby woodrose seeds, lsa, methyl chavicol, vasoconstriction

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