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  #1  
Old 13-01-2011, 16:33
ea2300 ea2300 is offline
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Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

SWIM has been using different opiates on and off (usually waiting a month or so inbetween mini- binges) SWIM would use OC, vicodin, tramadol, percocet, etc. SWIMS last dose was about a week ago, usually kept low (a couple tramadols) and SWIM experiences very mild w/d effects...such as constant chills/sweating.

anyway SWIM wanted to know how kratom will act on SWIMS w/d symptoms. will it be like taking a benzo? helps you out for the day but has no affect on the symptoms length or severity? or will it act as if taking a dose of opiates (lets say a couple percs) helping that day, but in the long run prolonging W/D symptoms and possibly increasng severity?

thanks for any possible info. SWIM has recently obtained some kratom and wishes to be clear on this matter before SWIM ingests any
  #2  
Old 13-01-2011, 17:17
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Please find way other than 'SWIM' to avoid self-incrimination as the use of 'SWIM' is not preferred, thank you.

Kratom acts on opiate receptors and it is effective for alleviating some withdrawal symptoms. Clover tells me that he has used it for this purpose with some success. At the amount of drug your friend was last using, Clover seems to think that kratom will help. Additionally, kratom can have effects well into the next day. Please note that kratom is addictive and tolerance and dependence can develop to it.

Clover also wanted me to tell you that for chronic abusers of tramadol, one also needs to consider the serotonergic effects of tramadol upon cessation of use. Clover says that St. John's Wort or even 5-HTP has helped to alleviate some of his depression or other symptoms of low serotonin after heavy tramadol use.

Clover does not consider kratom to be at all like a benzodiazepine.
  #3  
Old 13-01-2011, 17:37
ea2300 ea2300 is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Sorry the last time ea2300's cat has used this site people still used SWIM.

my cat understands that Kratom is not like a benzo...and has used kratom before. what my cat is asking is will kratom have affects on his w/d like an opiate does or like any other drug will (helping symptoms but not affecting the length/severity of W/Ds)

my cat has no depression symptoms and the w/d is very very minor and he isnt asking for a cure or remedy. just wants to know kratoms affects, whether it will prolong opiate w.d. as if he took more opiates?
  #4  
Old 13-01-2011, 20:51
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ea2300 View Post
whether it will prolong opiate w.d. as if he took more opiates?
Yes. Kratom acts on mu opiate receptors, so it would like akin to taking more opiates.
  #5  
Old 03-02-2011, 21:18
Lilbluewatson Lilbluewatson is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

I was wondering, will Kratom show up in a U/A?
  #6  
Old 03-02-2011, 21:23
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilbluewatson View Post
I was wondering, will Kratom show up in a U/A?
Is U/A a drug test?
If so it will only show up if they are specifically looking for Kratom.
It wont give a false positive for other drugs.
  #7  
Old 03-02-2011, 21:43
Lilbluewatson Lilbluewatson is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Thanks! I have a pet who uses opiates exsesive everyday and wondered if Kratom will have any effect on him. Opiates are a visious yet enjoyable thing. If Kratom is anything like it, then it may be a lil safer. Also, is it legal still in the U.S.? Thanks
  #8  
Old 04-02-2011, 00:29
promnthevs promnthevs is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

It might be worth noting that mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine (two alkaloids in kratom) are μ-OPIOID agonists. Repeated use of any substance that binds to a G protein-coupled receptor (like μ-opioid receptors) will upregulate the receptor's deactivation. This is one of the chief mechanisms through which tolerance develops (cf. tachyphylaxis). Additionally, expression of the gene that codes for μ-opioid receptors is downregulated-- i.e. a long-term opioid user will actually have less of the desired receptors. Since kratom is functionally an opioid, all of the above still applies to it. The point is that using kratom to "treat" opioid withdrawal doesn't offer any advantage over continuing use of the opioid whose cessation led to the withdrawal (except perhaps that it might be less potent than the original choice, so a weening approach could be a possibility). Using kratom for withdrawals is essentially just delaying the inevitable.
  #9  
Old 04-02-2011, 01:10
JackARoe JackARoe is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by promnthevs View Post
The point is that using kratom to "treat" opioid withdrawal doesn't offer any advantage over continuing use of the opioid whose cessation led to the withdrawal (except perhaps that it might be less potent than the original choice, so a weening approach could be a possibility). Using kratom for withdrawals is essentially just delaying the inevitable.
Another take, part of the healing occurs when one moves from opiates to kratom. From what i have witnessed in others, the people that utilized kratom to get off of opiates still had wd, but more managable. It did not completely take away wd. SWIM has also witnessed some oxy or H users that felt (good quality) plain leaf bali kratom didn't help them at all. So when a person successfully gets off of opiates with kratom, it is really their own perserverence and determination that makes it so, not because kratom fully replaced their drug. There is partial healing when one switches from opiates to kratom. But yes, there is still that last leg of stopping. It can take the edge off in a very good way however.

There needs to be more facts concerning kratom and mu receptors. Kratom in no way cuts as deep as a traditional opiate. If it did we'd see many more people reaching for it. Most people I know that tried to use it as a replacement found it not the same nor as satisfying. They were daily opiate users.

There are many substances that effect different opiate receptors. But they can still be in another class than that of opiates. Nigella Sativa comes to mind. But we can not say that Nigella Sativa is as effective of an agonist of say oxycodone. Same with kratom. The slight stimulating effect of kratom is more enticing than the light "receptor" effect.

And on the other end of the spectrum if someone is using kratom daily and stops, it never gets near that vomiting shivering bone aching wd of say oxycodone or H wd. There is for sure a wd, but not as deep. Again, if it were even close, we'd see many more people interested. SWIM has had kratom handed back to him by people he thought SHOULD have liked it. It didn't cut it as a replacements. But he tried.
  #10  
Old 04-02-2011, 04:25
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilbluewatson View Post
I was wondering, will Kratom show up in a U/A?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianzombie View Post
Is U/A a drug test?
If so it will only show up if they are specifically looking for Kratom.
It wont give a false positive for other drugs.
U/A meaing Urinanalysis. Kratom will not show up on any drug test I know of. I've never seen a confirmation test for mitragynine or the 7-hydroxy form. That includes the NMS catalog of tests, which is probably the most comprehensive in the United States.
  #11  
Old 10-02-2011, 17:53
ragtime ragtime is offline
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Re: Kratom's effects on opiate withdrawal?

One of my cool buddies used poppy tea as a daily mood enhancer, but then decided last spring that his habit was exorbitant and needed to cut back. Withdrawals were fairly awful for him, I'm sad to say, and there was little to be done except to make him comfortable. Around day two, when he thought he might just go mad with symptoms, he dosed with a couple of kratom capsules, and while the physical side effects did not disappear, what did was the soul-crushing despair he felt from a lack of natural endorphin production. It is important to add that he did not feel that withdrawal was delayed in any way, nor did he continue to use kratom at any other period during or in the immediate period following acute opiate withdrawal syndrome.

Interesting story, this very same buddy began to use poppy tea once more, coming to terms with its main terrible side effect, addiction. Yet, as the domestic poppy supply dwindled (causing a great deal of consternation to all and sundry), he began to re-examine the kratom plant, which had hitherto not satisfied him. I'm happy to report that my dearest friend and colleague has successfully transitioned from daily pod eater to daily kratom tosser and is better for it.

In fact, the most interesting thing about kratom is that it is not poppies--there are other benefits besides mu-opiod agonism. While certainly addictive, the physical side effects of withdrawal are not in the same league as opiate withdrawal for it is a weaker agonist of the opiod receptors. Also, the kratom-specific feeling of a buzz (as reported to me in a long chat with my buddy) is different in quality to the throes of opiate splendor--there is more energy, for one, and less cloudiness. Perhaps these facts also have to do with the reason my buddy self-administers in the first place--to become a more productive human being and enjoy the company of himself and others and to create such art forms--and so takes a lower dose than perhaps a more seasoned opiophile. My buddy also benefits from extreme antioxidant behavior, and feels smarter and healthier, though derides the taste (which he describes, being a Cajun himself, as "terrible filé" or "filé from Hell").

In any case, I want to conclude by saying that not only can kratom alleviate some of the symptoms of acute withdrawal syndrome, but can also act as a successful replacement for opiates if one is willing to treat it as a separate entity with different strengths and weaknesses from traditional opiates.

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Great post showing the benefits of Kratom from personal experience

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addiction, kratom for opiate withdrawal, opiate addiction, opiate withdrawal, withdrawals

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