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Kratom Mitragyna speciosa

 
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  #1  
Old 12-01-2011, 22:22
_Dante_ _Dante_ is offline
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Kratom curing your cold?

Had a quick search and didn't find anything for this, not even on google:

Over the last six months, whenever swim had a bad cold, swim took a few grams of kratom, and within two hours the cold had dried up.

One occasion it returned a couple of days later, so swim took another few grams and it went immediately.

This phenomena was noticed accidently one evening when swim had some kratom for recreational purposes, and found swim's cold disappeared.

Anyone else experienced this?

What could cause this to happen?

Swim thought that it may be because kratom acts in a similar way to opiates, and codeine used to be used in cough mixtures etc. However, that doesn't explain why it seems to actually CURE the cold, not just relieve the symptoms.

SWIY's thoughts are much appreciated.

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Interesting thread that provokes real insight.
An interesting idea on something that has not been well studied.
  #2  
Old 12-01-2011, 23:13
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Well like you said it acts a lot like opiates. SWIM wasn't sick a single day the 4+ years he was shooting heroin. He has had a terrible terrible cold for the past week which has barely been getting better, but he did some H on Friday and it went away until Sunday.

Just SWIMs opinion, but he strongly believes that opiates are healthy for your body. Stress has an extremely powerful affect on health. It makes you suceptible to all kind of diseases, pains, infections, etc. It severely weakens your immune system. Someone under extreme stress, particularly in their 30s and 40s, can literally age 10 years in appearence in a single year. Besides the fact that dopamine is tied to immune system function, SWIM believes the state of ultimate relaxation, happiness, and complete absence of stress that opiates (and Kratom) cause allows your body to heal and resist disease much better.

Just SWIMs thoughts.

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Interesting perspective
  #3  
Old 13-01-2011, 11:42
Maudlin_Fame Maudlin_Fame is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Just to echo what SWIDT has said, SWIM has been using kratom for two years now and has had not one single cough, cold, blocked nose etc. in that time. This is while people in the same house have suffered from cold and flu viruses. So clearly there is some physiological effect resulting from mu-opioid receptor agonists which either enhances the body's immunity or dulls the typical side effects of the body's immune system (i.e. reduces inflammation, reduces stress hormones). Probably a mixture of both.
  #4  
Old 13-01-2011, 17:22
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maudlin_Fame View Post
So clearly there is some physiological effect resulting from mu-opioid receptor agonists which either enhances the body's immunity or dulls the typical side effects of the body's immune system (i.e. reduces inflammation, reduces stress hormones).
Not clearly. We aren't talking about a pure chemical here. Kratom powder or leaf has a lot of other stuff in it besides mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Additionally, practically no substance is exclusively selective for a single receptor.

It's possible that there are numerous flavonoids and antioxidants in kratom leaf. These could contribute to greater overall health, but this is just speculation. I think it will be difficult to impossible to pindown any specific cause without empirical studies.

As far as other opiates go, one should keep in mind that opiates tend to make the user feel superior and have a sense of greater clarity and health. The subjective effects may play a role in this perception. I have not seen any evidence or studies regarding any immune or health effects with regards to the opiate receptors. I would think such things would have been thoroughly investigated as the classical opiates have been used for many many decades and have been extensively studied. If anyone can find such empirical evidence regarding opiates and immune health, then please share - I would love to see it.

On a side note, there does seem to be some correlation between histamine and opiate use, as some antihistamines alleviate some opiate withdrawal symptoms. I'm sure there is information out there on this, but I have not investigated the matter. That may be a place to start as histamine is involved in inflammation responses.

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informative posts deserve...you guessed it...rep!!!!
  #5  
Old 13-01-2011, 17:52
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
I have not seen any evidence or studies regarding any immune or health effects with regards to the opiate receptors. I would think such things would have been thoroughly investigated as the classical opiates have been used for many many decades and have been extensively studied. If anyone can find such empirical evidence regarding opiates and immune health, then please share - I would love to see it.
I think this topic is quite interesting as I've read a few studies linking opioid receptors to the immune system. I'm certainly not well versed in it, but from what I gather expression of opioid receptor genes has been fond not only in brain structures, but also in immune-related organs, thereby corroborating a potential immune function for these receptors (Chadzinska et al, 2009).
That particular referenced article goes on further to say
Quote:
In mammals opiate alkaloids and endogenous opioid peptides exert their physiological and pharmacological actions through opioid receptors (MOR, DOR and KOR) expressed not only on neuroendocrine cells but also on leukocytes. Therefore, opioids can modulate the immune response.
(MOR - mu, DOR - delta, KOR - kappa)

I've attached the pdf, and also another that discusses the idea that opioid receptors expressed by immune cells are often the same/identical to the neuronal opioid receptors which could open doors for opioid immunopharmacology (Bidlack 2000). Hope they are useful/informative

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Fantastic references. Great addition to the thread.
Nice addition of info.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Chadzinska 2009.pdf (1.07 MB, 6 views)
File Type: pdf Bidlack 2000.pdf (77.6 KB, 4 views)
  #6  
Old 13-01-2011, 21:05
Maudlin_Fame Maudlin_Fame is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
Not clearly. We aren't talking about a pure chemical here. Kratom powder or leaf has a lot of other stuff in it besides mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Additionally, practically no substance is exclusively selective for a single receptor.
Well, yes, kratom has many dozens of different alkaloids aside from the opioid receptor agaonists. From what little Iíve read (and from what little research has been done on the chemical make up of kratom) it appears that there are numerous Adrenergic antagonists within kratom. But Iím not sure why that would stand against the sentiments in the sentence you quoted? It seems quite clear that there is at least some correlation between use of opioid receptor agonists and a suppressed immune response.

Catseye has attached a few good articles but there is another abstract here of a research piece concluding that morphine inhibits the production of cytokines, a cell produced as an inflammatory response to infection. So it does seem that the effect which opioids have on immune responses is well documented.

Kratom, of course, has many more varied and as yet uncovered substances contained within it but SWIMís anecdotal evidence is that the effect on immune responses to common colds etc. is much the same as that from typical opiates.
  #7  
Old 13-01-2011, 21:43
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Please don't link to external sources. Either upload the file to the File Archive or copy and paste the content into your post. Links go dead and divert traffic out of the forum.

Uploaded to the File Archive: Morphine reduces local cytokine expression and neutrophil infiltration after incision

Given the papers that catseye has provided, it would make sense that morphine (and possibly other exogenous opiate receptor agonists) would reduce cytokine production as they act as cytokines.

This discussion is fascinating, but we are moving away from the original topic and more towards the pharmacology of opiate receptors. Perhaps we can start a new thread on the topic in the pharmacology forum.

I am also interested in Maudlin_Fame's comment regarding adrenergic antagonists in kratom. I am unfamiliar with this. Again it is off topic, but I would appreciate some references. If anyone could find some, please upload them to the file archive or provide them in an appropriate thread on kratom pharmacology or chemical makeup.

One last point that is on-topic, If opiate receptor agonists reduce immune response (as is well documented in the review by Bidlack that catseye provided), then how does this relate to the topic at hand? We are discussing reports of cold-like symptoms disappearing with kratom use. If we assume the symptoms associated with an immune response are dissappearing, then that makes sense. However, this would also mean that the cold itself should get worse as the immune response to the cold is being weakened. The reports are stating just the opposite. The comments by dyingtomorrow and dante suggest an increase in overall immune health. Something is obviously missing from this discussion.
  #8  
Old 13-01-2011, 21:54
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Hmm, not to be the fly in anyone's ointment, but monkey has been on kratom and fighting a pretty nasty cold for the past week. But I suppose he's only been taking it regularly for a few days and the cold was there first, perhaps it's helping in the battle. He reports his symptoms feeling better while on it at any rate, lol. That could, of course, simply be general "feel good" effects. For example, just from the time I've logged on, shortly after monkey took his first dose of the day, Monkey reports alleviation of symptoms.
He'll keep an eye on his health over the next while. He tends to catch little bugs frequently, so an immune response boost should be noticeable over time. We'll be interested to hear more on this and will report any relevant anecdotal evidence that arises.

^
I am considering splitting this thread as well. Or at least retitling it something more descriptive to what it's evolving into, re opioid receptors and health. I'm open to others--more knowledgeable on this area than myself--input on the matter

Last edited by Heretic.Ape.; 13-01-2011 at 22:00.
  #9  
Old 13-01-2011, 22:56
ianzombie ianzombie is nu online
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

The Dr. has been using Kratom regularly for about 6 years, he has had several doses of the flu, colds etc.
Kratoms effects might mask some of the symptoms but it certainly does not Cure it.
The Dr. also noted that when he was new to Kratom he could take it and it would help with some symptoms but the longer he has been using it the less benefits he gets from it when he is sick.
  #10  
Old 13-01-2011, 23:47
_Dante_ _Dante_ is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Well to clarify a few things from swim's initial post:

Swim is reasonably new to kratom, and uses it infrequently. I.e. no tolerance.

The first time swim noticed it work, was by accident. I.e. swim used a few grams recreationally and noticed his cold went. This was literally within an hour of taking it.

Since then this has been tested a few more times.

Twice it has got rid of the cold completely, within an hour, and it hasn't returned. Once it, with a lower dose, it alleviated the cold for a couple of hours, but it returned. However, given that three times it has worked so quickly and thoroughly, swim is truly shocked.

Swim really hates colds, so finds this new 'cure' to be a blessing, and one that he will use more in the future!
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Old 14-01-2011, 21:34
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

SWIM would guess antioxidants found in the leaf as well.
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Old 15-01-2011, 09:44
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

SWIM has noticed the same with kratom.
Only 2-3g bali kratom is enough to cure cold.
When SWIM feels shitty, has a runny nose etc, he takes 3g kratom and he is back to normal in like 1 hour. It's amazing.

SWIM uses kratom maximum 2 times a week, his average dose is 5g.
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Old 17-01-2011, 23:38
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

SWIM has used kratom for about a year and a half. SWIM has only been sick once or twice, but these sicknesses were either short in duration or came about because he wasn't using kratom (w/d or weak immune system?). SWIM also recognizes that the more he uses kratom the less benefits he gets from it; tolerance rises, euphoria disappears, depression/anxiety increases, runny noses (not full-on colds), etc. no matter how high of a dose is taken.

Perhaps the alkaloid raubasine lowers BP and might have adaptogenic properties. Clearly circumstantial. Just throwing it out there.
This is very interesting stuff.
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Old 18-01-2011, 00:14
anjinash anjinash is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

SWIM gets colds every few months and he has been using Maeng-Da kratom daily for well over a year now. SWIM wonders if those who report complete success in eradicating their colds are using extracts or enhanced leaves? SWIM will only use extracts to supplement his Maeng-Da as a treat every now and then.

SWIM also smokes about a pack and a half of cigarettes a day and generally doesn't pay much attention to keeping himself in good shape.. so that may play a part in this.
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Old 18-01-2011, 00:22
Revolvingdoo Revolvingdoo is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Not to poop on peoples parade or dismiss what they are saying but from a logical standpoint, could it be simply due to the analgesic effect of opiates/oids?
I mean, the analgesia last significantly longer than the euphoric properties and colds are pretty short lived things at the best of times (referring to the worst/most intense symptoms), and opiates are more than equipped to deal with this level of discomfort.
Is it not conceivable that its simply due to a person not noticing/feeling/caring about the symptoms over it actually curing?

On the other hand it is possible that there is an anti-viral substance in the kratom, or that opioid's somehow bolster the immune system, HOWEVER Occam's razor dictates we look for the simplest answer right?
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Old 18-01-2011, 02:00
sterling77 Iridium member sterling77 is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Opiates are generally known to decrease immune function. So I would say no to this, unless I saw some information specific to kratom.
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Old 03-02-2011, 18:12
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

My pikachu has had a bad cold the last few days and is about to take a dose of kratom. They've done this in the past and find that once it kicks in they feel pretty much back to normal and does help with the speed of recovery.

This could be a "mind over matter" situation, where the overall relaxation and thinking of feeling better helps immensely. They also smoke later on, not just for the great synergy, but also because otherwise they will never get to sleep.

Since this sleep is so long and deep, that also helps getting over the cold.

Something that also ties in with this, is that if they overdo the kratom for several days, they have mild withdrawal symptoms which are the same as the beginning stage of a cold: cold sweats, aches, lethargy, lack of concentraion etc.

Seems like a connection.
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Old 18-05-2011, 20:57
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow View Post
Well like you said it acts a lot like opiates. SWIM wasn't sick a single day the 4+ years he was shooting heroin. He has had a terrible terrible cold for the past week which has barely been getting better, but he did some H on Friday and it went away until Sunday.

Just SWIMs opinion, but he strongly believes that opiates are healthy for your body. Stress has an extremely powerful affect on health. It makes you suceptible to all kind of diseases, pains, infections, etc. It severely weakens your immune system. Someone under extreme stress, particularly in their 30s and 40s, can literally age 10 years in appearence in a single year. Besides the fact that dopamine is tied to immune system function, SWIM believes the state of ultimate relaxation, happiness, and complete absence of stress that opiates (and Kratom) cause allows your body to heal and resist disease much better.

Just SWIMs thoughts.
this is ridiculous. you were probably just too high to notice you were sick. there's plenty of information that says opiates can mask symptoms of serious diseases.

telling people to shoot up at the first sign of an illness to "boost their immune system" is dangerous and stupid.

to the op, no it didn't make you cold go away, it just covered the symptoms. like drinking dayquil, but probably more effective.

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Nothing in that quote makes me think he is advocating "shooting up" to "boost the immune system"
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Old 31-05-2011, 11:35
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eggs View Post

to the op, no it didn't make you cold go away, it just covered the symptoms. like drinking dayquil, but probably more effective.
Can you please give an explanation for such a statement? What is the basis for your assumption?

On the three occasions SWIM mentioned, he finds it hard to believe the kratom just covered the symptoms, as SWIM found once the kratom wore off, the cold was gone. (To illustrate the point, SWIM usually has colds for three or four days, whereas in all three cases they came for one day then disappeared around half an hour after dosing.)
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Old 01-06-2011, 17:34
DroolingLiver DroolingLiver is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

I posted in this thread several months ago about my pikachu experimenting with Kratom during a cold and found it did not help get rid of it.

He has come to the conclusion that it will not help anyone's cold and the users who claim it does are not experiencing colds but withdrawals that seem to be colds.

Just because use is only two or three times a week, dependance can set in. It may even be that not using for a couple of days, feeling the withdrawals, then using again and not experiencing withdrawals again may be an inadvertant taper.
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Old 02-06-2011, 18:07
_Dante_ _Dante_ is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DroolingLiver View Post

He has come to the conclusion that it will not help anyone's cold and the users who claim it does are not experiencing colds but withdrawals that seem to be colds.
Swim is afraid this is not correct.

SWIM can state that his pet had not touched kratom for at least a number of weeks, if not months before his use which stopped the cold.

Given that SWIM does kratom at most a couple of times a month, often even less (ie very occasional use), there is no way that he was experiencing withdrawals from that or anything else.

The fact still remains that on three occasions SWIM came down with a bad cold, took kratom, and it went within a day, whereas usually they last three or four. That said, the last two times he tried this it didn't work.

It is strange it worked so clearly the first three. SWIM welcomes other thoughts on it though.
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Old 06-06-2011, 16:34
RoboCop RoboCop is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Kratom contains alkaloids thought to have a beneficial effect on the immune system and be effective in lowering blood pressure. Kratom also contains epicatechin, which is a powerful antioxidant present in dark chocolate and closely related to the compounds which give green tea its health promoting properties.

Kratom can have benefits for some individuals, many have found it effective in treating depression. It can also be used to alleviate pain. Others have reported that taking kratom eliminates their hay fever. In fact, many people claim that kratom helps them with a number of different ailments and it appears to have clear medicinal properties.

Kratom for swim obviously BOOSTS her immune system, colds aren't just covered but they go away much much faster. In Swims 4-6 year kratom use colds are very very rare. All the above posts on kratom being tied in with opiates in how they effect the immune system frustrates Swim. Its offensive Kratom is not an opiate and how opiates effect the immune system like heroin etc. have absolutely no correlation here.They are not the same and they do not effect the immune system the same. I think long term users will notice the boost in the immune system far over short term users.

There are articles on kratom being use as medicine to boost peoples immune system ALL over the internet.

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Interesting info, thanks for adding this
Very interesting info, some links for some sources would be greatly appriciated.
  #23  
Old 19-11-2012, 19:38
Karmageddon Karmageddon is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Sorry to drag this thread up but I have a related question. Up to now, I still haven't gotten around to trying kratom, mainly because I never have any time off. But today I am home from work with a bad cold and thought about kratom's antioxidant properties. Wondering if it would be a good time to do a test run to see if it makes me feel a little less miserable. Good idea or not? What kind would be best for feeling "healthier"? I've got a sampler that has Sumatran white and red, bali red, green malay, and strain x (whatever that means). Curious to hear what y'all think or if you think the fever is addling my brain.
  #24  
Old 21-11-2012, 21:56
seaturtle seaturtle is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboCop View Post
Kratom contains alkaloids thought to have a beneficial effect on the immune system and be effective in lowering blood pressure. Kratom also contains epicatechin, which is a powerful antioxidant present in dark chocolate and closely related to the compounds which give green tea its health promoting properties.

Kratom can have benefits for some individuals, many have found it effective in treating depression. It can also be used to alleviate pain. Others have reported that taking kratom eliminates their hay fever. In fact, many people claim that kratom helps them with a number of different ailments and it appears to have clear medicinal properties.

Kratom for swim obviously BOOSTS her immune system, colds aren't just covered but they go away much much faster. In Swims 4-6 year kratom use colds are very very rare. All the above posts on kratom being tied in with opiates in how they effect the immune system frustrates Swim. Its offensive Kratom is not an opiate and how opiates effect the immune system like heroin etc. have absolutely no correlation here.They are not the same and they do not effect the immune system the same. I think long term users will notice the boost in the immune system far over short term users.

There are articles on kratom being use as medicine to boost peoples immune system ALL over the internet.
I've had a similar experience with fewer colds since I started, it's very rare now. The 1-2 times I've gotten sick since I started Kratom it worked great as a medicine, symptoms for the most part go away after taking it, probably better than anything the Dr. could give me including Rx opiates.
  #25  
Old 21-11-2012, 23:35
rawbeer rawbeer is offline
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Re: Kratom curing your cold?

Karmageddon - seeing as you already have some kratom and were obviously intending to try it at some point I would say go for it. You may not get a full taste of the euphoria, energy, and all around awesomeness of kratom but I would bet my imaginary ranch that it will make you feel a lot better.

I would probably try the Bali - try 3g or so and if it doesn't seem to work take 2 more (5 total). I wouldn't go beyond that for a first time, if 5g doesn't work wait a few days and try 3g of a different type of kratom. Bali will probably be the most sedating analgesic strain you have (I don't know what the hell brand x or whatever it is means...) and if you have a bad cold it should afford you some nice rest.

Whether it works or not, you'll probably want to try it once you're feeling better too, because the cold will definitely mask some of the enjoyable effects. But as many people in this thread have already stated, kratom can do an amazing job of lessening cold symptoms, especially for those with low tolerance.

Just observe some basic caution and you should be fine!

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