TEK - Simple Hawaiian Baby Woodrose extraction

[wocket]

Yes, I'm new here. I've searched every thread I could find, but I have a very specific question about an extraction. I'm usually on another forum for all of my.. entheogenic needs, but they lacked the knowledge to help me out with this one.

I have a crap ton of real Hawaiian train HBWR seeds coming my way. About 250.

Now, Swim, who they're for, wants to do an extraction.

The extraction method swim has found most appealing is this:

- Grind up about 150 seeds in a coffee grinder
- Put in a jar and pour enough naptha to cover the seeds and then some
- Shake very well and let sit for a few hours
- Drain through a funnel/coffee filter
- Spread out the mush on a paper plate and let dry completely, until there is no naptha smell

-- this is where swim is wishing to change it

- the procedure calls that you put the ground up seeds in a high-proof alcohol (50 mL) for several days, with occasional shaking. Then, filter out the seed gunk and keep the alcohol, and drink it (slowly, holding it in your mouth for a minute or two for a little bit of a tincture effect) Not all the alcohol at once, mind you. There should be about 3 seeds worth of LSA per mL of alcohol, maybe a little less. A few mL of alcohol should be a trip. Hell, I don't know, I suppose you could put 2-3 mL in a rack of test tubes and top off with some grape Juicy Juice, cork and keep in the fridge. Those would make some kick-ass shooters.

But what swim would like to change about it is that once the naptha has evaporated, he would like to just use water as his polar compound. The crushed seeds, after being soaked in naptha, could just be put in a tea bag and put in a bottle of water in the fridge for 24 hours, right? Will this work? I've heard of plenty of cold water extractions, seen a lot of non-polar/polar extractions using solvents and ethanol, but never seen a solvent/water extraction. It seems like it should work, but I just wanted an expert opinion before swim goes and wastes some really fine HBWR seeds on something that neither he or I are sure will work.

Thanks in advance.

[Jimmeh]

Naptha is the polar solvent and alcohol is non-polar, you can use use water instead of Naptha AFAIK, although it seems that naptha is better(never tried it, can someone explain why?).

Also, isn't 5-15 seeds supposed to be a normal HBWS dose?

[wocket]

No, Naptha IS the non-polar compound and alcohol is the polar one. LSA binds to H2O when you do a cold-water extraction, right? That means it's polar. If naptha were polar and you put your HWBR in it, you'd be more or less fucked, because all the LSA would then be in the Naptha, and good luck consuming that.

Yes, 5-15 seeds is an average dose. I said swim was going to use 150, and then break it up into about 15-20 smaller doses. Each mL of alcohol solution will contain the LSA from three of the world's most potent real Hawaiian Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, and if each shooter tube has approximately 2-3mL of solution in it, in addition to whatever yummy juice swim choses, then that figures to about 6-9 seeds worth of LSA. Those are moderate-to-strong doses, considering the quality of seeds being used.

[psychedelaholic]

Whenever SWIM trips on LSA seeds he always complains of a lot of negative affects such as leg cramps and severe numbness. Would making pure LSA stop these negative affects? Also what form is the LSA in after you evap. off the solvent? And is IPA an ok polar solvent to use?

[wocket]

That's just what I said. H2O IS POLAR!!! JUST LIKE ETHANOL! You drink the water when you do a cold water extraction! Any idiot can tell you that. Naptha is a NON-polar solvent. It gets rid of one of the two really bad chemicals in HBWR seeds by bonding to them and removing them from the seeds. Then, once that's gone, you put the seeds in a polar substance, to which the LSA bonds. At that point, all that's left in the seeds is bad chemical # 2. This is consistent with everything I've ever read and everyone I've ever talked to.

In an HBWR seed, there are:

LSA
Bad chem #1
Bad chem #2

LSA will bond only to polar substances
bad chem # 1 will bond to a non-polar substance, but small amounts will also come out of the shell if saturated with liquid for a long period of time. This is why you only do cold water extractions for 12-24 hours. Any longer than that, and some of bad chem #1 will be in the water. The trade off, however, is that less of the LSA transfers from the seeds to the water.
Bad chem #2 does not bond to substances and remains in the seed material

All non-polar/polar extraction methods follow this basic principle. Don't believe me?

http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Extraction/extract2.html
http://www.clearwhitelight.org/hatter/LSAextraction.htm
First-hand account: http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=6346
http://www.dataalchemy.com/txt/DRUGS/LSD.TXT.htm

---------------------
And psychedelaholic,

The problem with all the LSA seeds is that they have nasties in them. HBWR for one, has compounds that are related to cyanide, and even has small amounts of cyanide. Not lethal, mind you, but nauseating beyond belief. Most of that is in the outer layers of the seed. If you scrape them with a pocket knife very meticulously, until you almost get to the "meaty" kernel, the nausea will be reduced. Within the kernel I believe there is another chem that also is toxic and causes nausea and other physical discomfort. Oh, and DEFINITELY remove the white fuzzy stuff that grows on most strains of HBWR. That will for sure make you vomit.

When it comes to morning glories, they'll usually make you just as sick, and they're too small to be scraped, not that I have any evidence that removing the outer layer of MG seeds would help, if it were even possible. But the good new is, cold-water extraction works reasonably well for MG seeds as far as getting the dosage right. You just put however many seeds you usually take, plus about an additional 20% because you will lose some matter in the process, and grind them really well, like in a coffee grinder. Then just put the powder in a tea bag, put it in a bottle of watter, and set it in the fridge for 12-24 hours. Remove the teabag, and viola! It's ready to drink. Not as much of the LSA will be extracted as if you did a complete non-polar/polar extraction. The other reason people do a complete n-p/p extraction is to be left with a high-concentration solution of LSA. If they have this in alcohol, they can evaporate it off and be left with a yellow-to-brown gunk. That's the goodies. Then they just put it in gel caps. HBWR contains a lot more LSA per seed than MG. They're much larger. So that's why it's usually smarter to do a n-p/p extraction, rather than just a simple cold-water (polar only) extraction. That way you can let the seeds soak in the polar substance for much longer, like 3-5 days, and not worry about anything harmful dissapating into the solution. (I recommend alcohol for long-term soaking because mold and crap can grow in water during the evaporation process and the LSA goop will have a lot of bacteria and mold spores on it so you may still get just as sick or sicker, though I suppose water could work if you don't plan on evaporating off the liquid and you're just going to drink it)

So, the forms of LSA:

-Straight seeds

- scraped seeds (almost as hard work as extraction with poorer results, but you're not left waiting a day or more)

- Simple LSA water! (with a cold-water extraction, only down point is you could potentially have a weak trip if most of the LSA didn't transfer into the water, but you can do this in as little as 12 hours)

- LSA vodka! (extra steps and takes 3-6 days, but very good, dependable, and mesurable doses - you can do 100 HBWR seeds in 50 mL of alcohol, and if you wanted a 10 seed trip, you'd just get a syringe, suck up 5 mL of the solution, and put it in your drink! Keep the rest in your fridge... 9 more 10-seed doses ready to go!)

- LSA goop (rather than drink the alcohol, put it in a shallow pan and let it evaporate off until only a yellow gunk is left... then scrape it together *make sure you have an idea how many seeds' worth of LSA there is per gram!*, and pack it in capsules, or spread it on your toast... whatever. If you wanted to dry it out further, I supposed that's possible if you have some dehumidification equipment, but DO NOT APPLY HEAT! Heat is BAD for almost all tryptamines, and will destroy LSA!)

If you had the facilities and the knowledge, I suppose you could even take that LSA goop, extract it further for absolute PURE LSA, then use it to manufacture real LSD, but that's quite an operation and not really worth it IMO, just for personal use. Besides, that's rather high-profile, because of some of the things you have to get. And you know if you ever learned to make LSD, it'd never stay "for personal use". There's such a high demand for it and it's so hard to come by... you'd start making a LOT of it, and selling it to pay the rent.. or to buy new clothes.. or a car... a mansion in Costa Rica... whatever, and probably go to prison for a very, very long time.

Not that LSA extraction isn't risky. It's manufacturing a schedule III substance. Which is more illegal than just consuming the seeds (yes, you can get busted for it, though it's unlikely) or buying/possessing extracted LSA from someone. It's not as illegal as buying/possessing LSD or any other schedule I substance, though. The only reason it isn't too terribly risky is that it's nothing you can't accomplish in the privacy of your own home with a little 180-proof vodka and a trip to your local Wal-Mart. Only use it yourself or maybe a few very close trusted friends, and nobody will know or even care. Distribute it at a party, however... that's another story.

Oh, and LSA itself can cause some discomfort, like leg cramps, and it can cause pregnant women to go into labor, but for the average person, it's nothing all that unpleasant.

Reputation Comments on this post:

excelent post

[Jimmeh]

My apologies... I've heard of water being used instead of naptha several times though(which is why my presumption was wrong). Also, isn't ethanol both non polar and polar?(can someone explain?)

This is from the main FAQ on Erowid:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...faq.shtml#chem

An alternative processing method occured to me since writing the FAQ in light of the apparent current difficulty in obtaining petroleum ether:

1. Proceed with a water extraction from the seed meal: Soak the meal in water and then filter off the water with a coffee filter, discarding the filter and solid matter, keeping the water.

2. Evaporate all the water until only a brown sludge remains. Do this maintaining the lowest possible temperature since lysergic compounds break down at relatively low temperatures. If you have access to a vacuum pump, use it. If you can perform this processing 5-10,000 feet above sea level or higher, do so. Otherwise, try blowing a fan across a flat pan such as a cookie sheet or pizza pan.

3. When only sludge remains, redissolve it in alcohol, perform any shamanic rituals desired with this material, then filter again and drink.

You dispose of the water in that case.....

[][v][arty]

Better late than never,

Jimmeh: The water extraction you have quoted does not imply that the water is disposed of.

By doing a water extraction, the water will extract the desired chemicals; LSA + other polar soluble, then you would filter this and keep the water. You could then drink this water as it contains the LSA, or let it evaporate and consume the gunk left behind of which the majority is LSA. LSA does not Evaporate.

The water is not disposed of, if you just went and put the seed mush into the water, let the water extract the LSA and then proceeded to dispose of the water by chuckin it down the drain, then you would enevitably be throwing away the LSA that the water contains.

[Jimmeh]

Originally Posted by ][v][arty

Better late than never,

Jimmeh: The water extraction you have quoted does not imply that the water is disposed of.

By doing a water extraction, the water will extract the desired chemicals; LSA + other polar soluble, then you would filter this and keep the water. You could then drink this water as it contains the LSA, or let it evaporate and consume the gunk left behind of which the majority is LSA. LSA does not Evaporate.

The water is not disposed of, if you just went and put the seed mush into the water, let the water extract the LSA and then proceeded to dispose of the water by chuckin it down the drain, then you would enevitably be throwing away the LSA that the water contains.

It was a long time ago, but I thhink I meant that since you let the water evaporate off it is "disposed of". I've a better grasp of this now and understand better, will try this over the summer.

[streamer]

Originally Posted by wocket

That's just what I said. H2O IS POLAR!!! JUST LIKE ETHANOL! You drink the water when you do a cold water extraction! Any idiot can tell you that. Naptha is a NON-polar solvent. It gets rid of one of the two really bad chemicals in HBWR seeds by bonding to them and removing them from the seeds. Then, once that's gone, you put the seeds in a polar substance, to which the LSA bonds. At that point, all that's left in the seeds is bad chemical # 2. This is consistent with everything I've ever read and everyone I've ever talked to.

In an HBWR seed, there are:

LSA
Bad chem #1
Bad chem #2

LSA will bond only to polar substances
bad chem # 1 will bond to a non-polar substance, but small amounts will also come out of the shell if saturated with liquid for a long period of time. This is why you only do cold water extractions for 12-24 hours. Any longer than that, and some of bad chem #1 will be in the water. The trade off, however, is that less of the LSA transfers from the seeds to the water.
Bad chem #2 does not bond to substances and remains in the seed material

All non-polar/polar extraction methods follow this basic principle. Don't believe me?

http://nepenthes.lycaeum.org/Extraction/extract2.html
http://www.clearwhitelight.org/hatter/LSAextraction.htm
First-hand account: http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=6346
http://www.dataalchemy.com/txt/DRUGS/LSD.TXT.htm

---------------------
And psychedelaholic,

The problem with all the LSA seeds is that they have nasties in them. HBWR for one, has compounds that are related to cyanide, and even has small amounts of cyanide. Not lethal, mind you, but nauseating beyond belief. Most of that is in the outer layers of the seed. If you scrape them with a pocket knife very meticulously, until you almost get to the "meaty" kernel, the nausea will be reduced. Within the kernel I believe there is another chem that also is toxic and causes nausea and other physical discomfort. Oh, and DEFINITELY remove the white fuzzy stuff that grows on most strains of HBWR. That will for sure make you vomit.

When it comes to morning glories, they'll usually make you just as sick, and they're too small to be scraped, not that I have any evidence that removing the outer layer of MG seeds would help, if it were even possible. But the good new is, cold-water extraction works reasonably well for MG seeds as far as getting the dosage right. You just put however many seeds you usually take, plus about an additional 20% because you will lose some matter in the process, and grind them really well, like in a coffee grinder. Then just put the powder in a tea bag, put it in a bottle of watter, and set it in the fridge for 12-24 hours. Remove the teabag, and viola! It's ready to drink. Not as much of the LSA will be extracted as if you did a complete non-polar/polar extraction. The other reason people do a complete n-p/p extraction is to be left with a high-concentration solution of LSA. If they have this in alcohol, they can evaporate it off and be left with a yellow-to-brown gunk. That's the goodies. Then they just put it in gel caps. HBWR contains a lot more LSA per seed than MG. They're much larger. So that's why it's usually smarter to do a n-p/p extraction, rather than just a simple cold-water (polar only) extraction. That way you can let the seeds soak in the polar substance for much longer, like 3-5 days, and not worry about anything harmful dissapating into the solution. (I recommend alcohol for long-term soaking because mold and crap can grow in water during the evaporation process and the LSA goop will have a lot of bacteria and mold spores on it so you may still get just as sick or sicker, though I suppose water could work if you don't plan on evaporating off the liquid and you're just going to drink it)

So, the forms of LSA:

-Straight seeds

- scraped seeds (almost as hard work as extraction with poorer results, but you're not left waiting a day or more)

- Simple LSA water! (with a cold-water extraction, only down point is you could potentially have a weak trip if most of the LSA didn't transfer into the water, but you can do this in as little as 12 hours)

- LSA vodka! (extra steps and takes 3-6 days, but very good, dependable, and mesurable doses - you can do 100 HBWR seeds in 50 mL of alcohol, and if you wanted a 10 seed trip, you'd just get a syringe, suck up 5 mL of the solution, and put it in your drink! Keep the rest in your fridge... 9 more 10-seed doses ready to go!)

- LSA goop (rather than drink the alcohol, put it in a shallow pan and let it evaporate off until only a yellow gunk is left... then scrape it together *make sure you have an idea how many seeds' worth of LSA there is per gram!*, and pack it in capsules, or spread it on your toast... whatever. If you wanted to dry it out further, I supposed that's possible if you have some dehumidification equipment, but DO NOT APPLY HEAT! Heat is BAD for almost all tryptamines, and will destroy LSA!)

If you had the facilities and the knowledge, I suppose you could even take that LSA goop, extract it further for absolute PURE LSA, then use it to manufacture real LSD, but that's quite an operation and not really worth it IMO, just for personal use. Besides, that's rather high-profile, because of some of the things you have to get. And you know if you ever learned to make LSD, it'd never stay "for personal use". There's such a high demand for it and it's so hard to come by... you'd start making a LOT of it, and selling it to pay the rent.. or to buy new clothes.. or a car... a mansion in Costa Rica... whatever, and probably go to prison for a very, very long time.

Not that LSA extraction isn't risky. It's manufacturing a schedule III substance. Which is more illegal than just consuming the seeds (yes, you can get busted for it, though it's unlikely) or buying/possessing extracted LSA from someone. It's not as illegal as buying/possessing LSD or any other schedule I substance, though. The only reason it isn't too terribly risky is that it's nothing you can't accomplish in the privacy of your own home with a little 180-proof vodka and a trip to your local Wal-Mart. Only use it yourself or maybe a few very close trusted friends, and nobody will know or even care. Distribute it at a party, however... that's another story.

Oh, and LSA itself can cause some discomfort, like leg cramps, and it can cause pregnant women to go into labor, but for the average person, it's nothing all that unpleasant.

Swim quite enjoys HBWS, but is looking for a more convenient way to consume them. He found the information that you posted about LSA extraction very helpful, but he is confused about a few things.

Apparently, Swim should use a non polar solvent in the initial stages, but his lack of chemistry know how is preventing him from knowing what a non polar solvent would be and what is the best/ easiest to acquire he should use.

[vantranist]

ill go into detail with the LSA Vadka if you dont mind... however this should only be done in places where its 100% legal.

1. Grind your seeds as much as possible (the finer the better)

2. Soak the seed powder into your non-polar solvent (i use acetone) , zippo fluid, ect. can be used. the most important thing is it must evaporate clean. they should soak for around an hour with vigorous shaking every now and then.

3. Filter the seed mush through coffee filters or somthing. Discard the liquid and save the seed mush allowing it to fully dry and make sure that all n/p solvent has evaparated, if you're not sure you can smell the seed mush if it smells like the n/p solvent you used either its not done evaping or the solvent you used doesnt evaperate clean.

4. ok so now you have your dried seed mush after the solvent soak. Simply take the seed mush and soak it in a high proof alcohol for 1-3 days shaking it whenever you think about it. Filter off the seed mush and discard it, all of the LSA'S are now suspeneded in the alcohol. You can drink the alcohol and get the desired effects.

thats pretty much it... hope i didnt leave anyhting out and that you can read through that mess

Reputation Comments on this post:

Clear and precise steps, thank you.

[highwood]

Originally Posted by vantranist

ill go into detail with the LSA Vadka if you dont mind... however this should only be done in places where its 100% legal.

1. Grind your seeds as much as possible (the finer the better)

2. Soak the seed powder into your non-polar solvent (i use acetone) , zippo fluid, ect. can be used. the most important thing is it must evaporate clean. they should soak for around an hour with vigorous shaking every now and then.

3. Filter the seed mush through coffee filters or somthing. Discard the liquid and save the seed mush allowing it to fully dry and make sure that all n/p solvent has evaparated, if you're not sure you can smell the seed mush if it smells like the n/p solvent you used either its not done evaping or the solvent you used doesnt evaperate clean.

4. ok so now you have your dried seed mush after the solvent soak. Simply take the seed mush and soak it in a high proof alcohol for 1-3 days shaking it whenever you think about it. Filter off the seed mush and discard it, all of the LSA'S are now suspeneded in the alcohol. You can drink the alcohol and get the desired effects.

thats pretty much it... hope i didnt leave anyhting out and that you can read through that mess

Acetone is a polar solvent.
You're just losing yield by using it as a non-polar one.
Not to mention not removing any strychnine.

[spatchcock86]

Originally Posted by wocket

HBWR for one, has compounds that are related to cyanide, and even has small amounts of cyanide. Not lethal, mind you, but nauseating beyond belief.

This is myth. HBW does not contain any such compounds. The nausea is said to come from the essential oils inside the seed.

[Synesthesiac]

Originally Posted by spatchcock86

This is myth. HBW does not contain any such compounds. The nausea is said to come from the essential oils inside the seed.

Well, I wouldn't rule out that it contains some cyanide, many other things we eat do. Cyanide is certainly poisonous in gaseous form, they used it to gas people years ago, but this is only when in the pure form. When its locked up in the structure of a molecule, its not cyanide anymore, its a would be called a cyano[.....]. For example vitamin B12 contains cyanide, its called cyanocobalamin. Does anyone have a reference for HBWR containing cyanide? it would be interesting to see if theres anyway to break it down and remove it, might work wonders in removing the nausia.

[Alfa]

So, as I understand it the simplest way to extract LSA from Hawaiian Baby Woodrose is to either let the grinded seeds sift in water for 12 hours or in 55% liquor for an 3-6 days. The filtered liquid can then be consumed. Right?

[jbmac]

Originally Posted by Alfa

So, as I understand it the simplest way to extract LSA from Hawaiian Baby Woodrose is to either let the grinded seeds sift in water for 12 hours or in 55% liquor for an 3-6 days. The filtered liquid can then be consumed. Right?

SWIM tried one fresh HBWR seed, scraped off all the outside layer, and
just popped it into his mouth, slowly chewed and swallowed. very mild
closed eye visuals, mild "acid-like" emotions and warm feelings, only
the slightest hint of mild nasea. SWIM is waiting a week and then
will try 4 of these seeds this way. SWIM hears that HBWR seeds
do not need the several day grinding/alcohol/water extractions that
morning glory seeds require. PS, SWIM got very intense CEVs
using one whippit of n20 - wow N2O plus any hallucinagen = wow.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by jbmac

SWIM tried one fresh HBWR seed, scraped off all the outside layer, and
just popped it into his mouth, slowly chewed and swallowed. very mild
closed eye visuals, mild "acid-like" emotions and warm feelings, only
the slightest hint of mild nasea. SWIM is waiting a week and then
will try 4 of these seeds this way. SWIM hears that HBWR seeds
do not need the several day grinding/alcohol/water extractions that
morning glory seeds require. PS, SWIM got very intense CEVs
using one whippit of n20 - wow N2O plus any hallucinagen = wow.

Swim has tried H.B. Woodrose seeds this way as well (just scraping off the edge, crushing it, and throwing it in his mouth), though up to 14 seeds.

He finds now that extracting it is much more worthwhile as you are wasting some of the LSA in the seeds if you just ingest normally as it doesn't seem to absorb as well.

[jbmac]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Swim has tried H.B. Woodrose seeds this way as well (just scraping off the edge, crushing it, and throwing it in his mouth), though up to 14 seeds.

He finds now that extracting it is much more worthwhile as you are wasting some of the LSA in the seeds if you just ingest normally as it doesn't seem to absorb as well.

Since SWIM feels just one seed - is the "trip" better after doing an extraction of HBWR seeds? By scraping, I think most of the nausea goes away - so SWIM is not worried about wasting it, but your buddy still think the trip is better extracting then just chewing the seeds?

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by jbmac

Since SWIM feels just one seed - is the "trip" better after doing an extraction of HBWR seeds? By scraping, I think most of the nausea goes away - so SWIM is not worried about wasting it, but your buddy still think the trip is better extracting then just chewing the seeds?

Swim feels that the LSA seems to kick in more smoothly, its nausea-free (scraping sometimes leaves a bit of nausea), and he feels the effects quite clearly.

With scraping he has had good experiences though sometimes nausea can come up, and sometimes the trip takes a while to kick in fully (it slowly builds up).

In swim's opinion a simple extraction would be good if swiy is aiming for higher doses.

[Powdered Sugar]

Swim Used the non polor extraction before and when it came to the alcohol he just let it sit for 2 days only shaking like twice a day and came out with some potent stuff. and all he did is mix half a shot with punch. oh but swim made sure to keep the bottle in a paper bag in the fridge to keep it cool and away from light.

[wellhelm]

If swim could only get HBW with the pesticides on it would this extraction rid the final product of the pesticides or would the pesticides most likely be soluble in alcohol/solvent?

[dip]

the pesticides are harmless as far as I know. The cyanide glucosides (and other chemicals?) will make SWIY sick, which the extraction will remove; from HBWR or MG.

[tone3721]

If your plan was to go from LAA-111-->LSD, wouldnt D H2O be the way to go? Because any alcohol containing the OH bond, would epimerize the 8 position yielding it isomer? Involving another step to convert to LAA-111, from ISO-LAA. Wouldnt it be easier to extract with water, hydrolize with say: sodium bicarbonate, and sulfuric(tartaric? textbook calls for H2SO4, and NaHCO3 for these types of reactions)? Im presuming extraction would epimerize, but hydrolysis wouldnt. Yielding LA(possible column here), which could be coupled a' la casey, then purified through column.

[tone3721]

Care to elaborate aminorex? Out of 220 posts, maybe 7 or 8 of them actually contain words. As opposed to aaaaaaaa, or .........., or how bout sssssssssssss, had few ////////// in there too. Not very condusive too anything really. Even less are complete sentences if Swit recalls. ODD

[streamer]

Thanks for the information, Swim found it very helpful and can't wait to try.

He has another question though:

After doing some research, and using the method you described, he is able to extract 50 ml of extract from 150 HBWS. Since 1 ml of the extract is equal to 3 HWBS he finds that 3 ml is perfect for dosage.

Swim discovered that LSA (ergine) is 1/10th as Potent as LSD-25 by weight. Swim also found that 4 seeds are equal to 1mg LSA (one hit). Swim claims, if one were to do some simple division 150/4 (since the 50 ml extract solution is equal to 150 seed) you get 37.5 the amount of LSA hits in the extract...let's just say 40. And that since LSA is 1/10th as potent as LSD if you devide 40 by 10 you get 4.




So Swim wonders...if he consumed the entire 50 ml LSA extract (equal to 150 seeds) would that bring the same results as taking 4 hits of acid??????



Do you think that would work out or is Swim crazy?

[vantranist]

I dont belive so...

when they say LSA is 1/10 as potent as LSD that doesnt mean if you take 10X as much that its going to feel like an LSD dose. What it means is if a standard dose of LSD is 100micrograms and a standard dose of lsa is 1 MG its just 10X as potent, but that doesnt mean the effects will be anywhere near the same.

exp.
1 dose of heroin is 10 MG and one dose of cocaine is 60 MG, herion is 6X as potent as Cocaine by wieght but just becuase you take 6X more cocaine doesnt mean the effects will feel anyhting like heroin.

If you did consume that 50 ml Extract it would most likley get you real sick or worse, and if it didnt it would make your trip extreamly powerfull since your basicly taking about 40 doses.