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  #1  
Old 26-12-2010, 02:29
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Hi Everyone-

Swim has a dilemna. Swim has been smoking various herbal blends since November of 2009 daily. Swim uses about 3g a week through a water bubbler. On this past thursday, swim took a big bong rip and went on his way to get his haircut. While driving, swim started in the worst panic attack that he has ever gotten since beginning the use of herbal blends. The panic attack lasted about 2 straight hours where swim felt like he couldnt breathe, something was choking him, couldnt sit still etc. Swim was driving his car with his 4 windows down and no heat in 20 degree weather and it still wasnt happening.

Eventually swim calmed himself down enough to get through his 8 hour shift at work. That evening upon arriving home, swim once again starting getting the panic/anxiety and felt as though swim was suffocating. Swim checked himself into the ER and all tests returned normal. Swim was released 6 hours later and was prescribed xanax for the anxiety. Friday, swim once again was feeling as though if swim didnt concentrate on his breathing, that he wouldnt breathe. Its a horrible feeling for swim. Swim also is experiencing some burning in his left and right breast area when breathing. Swim works for a hospital and while this was occuring yesterday, swim went over and had the doctor examine his breathing and pulse ox, everything was normal.

Now saturday, swim feeling a little better but still hasnt even eaten anything since wedneday evening. Swim is still having the feeling of heavy chest, and where swim must concentrate to breathe otherwise swim will suffocate. Swim is also a cigarrette smoker, and currently is unable to smoke due to these feelings. Swim thinks now swim will quit everything that involves smoking. The only problem is swim is so freaked out right now that swim is thinking about checking himself into the hospital again.

Has anyone heard of similar stories? Will swim eventually relax enough to stop thinking that if swim doesnt concentrate on breathing that swim will die? This is a horrible feeling, swim never had anxiety issues, swim smoked the natural substance 12 years strong until new employment with randoms forced swim to look elsewhere. Now after 13 months of daily use, swim is scared swims life is ruined and swim will never be able to breathe regularly again. Has anyone had any experience where a panic attack lingered for so long? Or had the feelings where if you didnt concentrate on breathing you would suffocate? Any advice for swim is great. Swim is on the verge of complete breakdown right now.

That panic attack was like no other, never had one last that long from herbal blends. Please any experience with this will be great to hear. Has any swim every quit cold turkey after using daily for 13 months or longer? This wasnt straight JWH, it was herbal blends. Thanks for your help, please post soon and often.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:00. Reason: post restored
  #2  
Old 26-12-2010, 05:48
Overwatch9 Overwatch9 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

First of all, SWIY openly admits they took a bong rip and then went for a drive. The anxiety they are experiencing should be related to the lives, including their own life, that they put in grave danger. Simply not cool, Man.

It sounds like to SWIM that SWIY had a JWH overdose panic attack from possibly a "hot spot" in their blend. The after effects are that they, mentally, are convinced they have somehow damaged themselves. Their heightened sense of concern manifests itself in the form of symptoms. Chest pain, anxiety, sweating, heart palpitations, breathing irregularities, etc. This reaffirms and fuels their first problem (heightened sense of concern) and the vicious cycle starts. Over time their sleep cycle will be destroyed, diet will be random / abnormal and gastrointestinal woes will follow -- each making their own contributions to new or existing symptoms. Normally when an individual disregards a valid medical exam / report in lieu of their own belief of illness is the first real sign of problems.

SWIM says stop or slow the R/C intake, believe your two medical exams are accurate, take the medication as prescribed and by all means -- start some type of daily physical exercise routine. SWIY will be astonished how the later will improve mood, physical health and outlook. Set SWIY to a strict sleep, eat and "be active / work" type of time schedule and they will likely see their symptoms disappear rather quickly.

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Safety tips
Great post. OP definitely needs to break that cycle. Thanks for commenting on safety of others too.
Good harm reduction advice, especially the warning about driving whilst high.
Well done, I concur with the psychosomatic hypothesis.
Excellent post. Worded well.
Good advice. Simple education will benefit all.
  #3  
Old 26-12-2010, 14:04
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Thanks for the reply. Swim knows he was wrong. Swim has been taking the xanax and trying to relax but it has been difficult. Swim hasnt had any RC since thursday. Swim still is experiencing some burning in chest when breathing, and still having some panic. Swim will attempt to take your advice, swim also hasnt even had a cigarrette. It seems with each day that has passed, swim is a little less paranoid/anxious and it is getting a little easier to breathe. Still the concern is there though. Swim never thought this would happen to swim. Especially since swim has been smoking blends for over a year with zero extremely bad experiences.

Swim hopes that everyone remains safe and has a great holiday. Swim ruined his christmas and hopes that he will be able to enjoy the new year without panic. Swim already has made up his mind that he will be 100% clean, not even a cig anymore. The experience swim had was like no other and life is too short for swim to take advantage of it like that. Swims wife is really upset with swim too and is telling swim that swim is being over dramatic and should just get over it.

If anyone else has any advice for swim or similar experiences with lingering anxiety for now 4 days post a panic attack, please relay your experiences with swim as well. Thanks and swim will try the exercise route. Swim initially tried push ups at work when anxiety kicked it but anything that brings swims heartrate up is causing anxiety that the same panic will ensue. Thanks

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:00. Reason: post restored
  #4  
Old 26-12-2010, 14:32
Valseedian Valseedian is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

swim LOVES overwatches answer. That covers what Id have said 90%.

in addition to the advice already given, Swim suggests giving up on store-bought herbal blends. The quality of the ingredients, especially actives, is subject to many variables. These blends can be produced inexpencively in ones own home using guides readily available online.

remember, because of 'not for human consumption', you arent insured anything. Pesticides/contaminants/products of pyrolation/ mold/dodgy or improperly produced actives.. chances are, your blends are produced in an environment that is worlds away from 'sterile' or 'food grade'... all possible variables that you can easily and affordably manipulate yourself.

controlling which active is infused into your blend is the most important part. 99.9% chance that the disphoria you felt proceeding your dose was caused by either a highly potant sample, or ran active that does not agree with you. have you used the brand of incense in the past without problems.. Companies change their potencies and actives between batches awsell, so this isnt exactly dead-to-rights proof..
  #5  
Old 26-12-2010, 15:28
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

I can relate to the anxiety SWIY is experiencing, not from a personal standpoint, but from having observed the anxiety battles my wife has endured and (for the most part) conquered (!), without medication. Her victory came from behavior modification -- using the power of self-calming and positive thinking to overcome anxiety attacks. The mind is a powerful thing…

Congratulations on your cigarette cessation! That’s a tough road; that I know from personal experience.

In addition to the thoughtful, positive, and, in my opinion, accurate advice offered thus far, please allow me to add some additional practical advice: As you pull yourself out of the anxiety trap and perhaps become tempted to return to cigarette smoking, may I suggest that you check out “electronic cigarettes” as an alternative? Although I hesitate to promote nicotine usage, my friend Hector, a former tobacco smoker, tells me that vaporizing nicotine liquid is much less stressful on his lungs than smoking. I merely suggest vaporizing nicotine in the event of possible additional anxiety brought on by the physical and psychological ramifications of total nicotine cessation.

The same holds true for herbal incense, from what Hector tells me. Vaporization appears to offer him the benefits of smoking those blends without introducing harmful burnt materials into the lungs.

I hope you do not experience panic attacks again. Responsibly venturing into high realms can do a lot to reduce such anxiety, as you’re probably aware. Be safe and be well.

~Psyliloquy
  #6  
Old 26-12-2010, 15:59
Overwatch9 Overwatch9 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman1967 View Post
Swim will attempt to take your advice, swim also hasnt even had a cigarrette.
Tis the woes of experimentation with R/C's. It is sheer human nature, when confronted with a medical condition, to mentally link (or strive to link) it to the use of the research compound.

SWIM would urge SWIY to remember that they have several "processes" going on inside their body right now. SWIY's lack of sleep, JWH withdrawal, nicotine withdrawal, poor diet, anxiety, etc, etc. All of which will likely cause many of the symptoms SWIY is experiencing.

SWIM has a R/C use philosophy that seems to work. He figures for each bong hit or oral liquid dose equates to roughly one mile to jog or one hour to work out. SWIM finds that frequent use of JWH type compounds tend to drop people below life's mental / physical baseline. And in doing so either abstinence from the R/C, physical labor or fitness training is the only thing that counters that every so slight slide below "baseline".

Relax. Relax. Relax. Load up SWIY's MP3 player and go for a couple brisk walks through his/her neighborhood daily. Do something physical to increase the tidal volume in their lungs. Eat healthy, sleep on a schedule and keep busy. SWIY is on their way to better days!

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Good advice. Exercise is very helpful for recovery.
  #7  
Old 27-12-2010, 17:41
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Thanks again to all who replied. Swim has had no problem not sleeping at all. In fact swim has slept the most he has in a few years lol. Friday night swim slept for 15 consecutive hours and last night I slept for about a total of 11 hours. Normally Swim only gets about 7 hours of sleep on average. Swim has had a tremendous lack of appetitive though. Swim did have about 7 bouts of diarrhea on thursday directly following the panic attack and hasnt defecated since.

This has been the weirdest experience for swim to date. Swim knows its all mental but feels when swim is active and swims heartrate starts to rise, that swim is about to have the same panic attack that swim experienced on thursday. Swim is feeling better today then swim was on friday. But still not feeling like swim normally does. Swims chest is still tight, and swim is still CONSTANTLY thinking about breathing. Swim has not had 1 urge to smoke either RC or a cigarrette. Swim in fact took a hammer to the water bubbler and is keeping the packets of RC around just in case something were to happen to swim and dr's needed to know exactly what went into swims body.

Like swim said, swim has smoked cigs for almost 13 years and has not had one since the panic attack on thursday without any desire to even do so. I would of thought swim would be thinking non stop about smoking a cig or RC but swims mind is still on his lungs, heart and livlihood. Swims question that he wanted me to convey was how long does this anxiety normally go on for. Swim has to start eating soon as he feels weak as to the point where swim feels like he is dizzy in the same manner as when he had the flu previously.

Also does anyone know how long it normally takes to have all the RC out of your system when you have been a habitual user for a long time as swim has been? Is it 30 days like the real thing, or does it take longer/shorter duration? Swim knows everyone is saying to exercise to keep swims mind off of RC's, but swim starts to feel anxious even when swim walks. Swim guesses he is just paying too close of attention to his body right now. Swims wife is to the point where she doesnt even want to talk to him because all swim keeps talking about is the weird feeling still in swims chest and the hope that he doesnt die. Thanks for the help guys, swim advises caution to everyone that feels invincible as swim did. Never even thought anything like this could of happened to swim. Now swim is paranoid that swim will never be back to "normal" again. Keep suggestions rolling in for swim. Swim appreciates any help and past experiences from members.

Swim will try today to eat 3 meals, even though it feels like swim is forcing himself to eat. Swim has absolutely no desire to eat or drink anything.

birdman1967 added 451 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

chest pains coming and going now for swim. Swim is unsure if this is panic still from the prior panic attack or the combination of quitting both rc and cigs at the same time. Swim took a xanax and if it doesnt help shortly is about to go to the ER again. Heart feels like it is racing and chest pressure/pain in center of chest/breastbone. Please somebody with similar experience let swim know what is going on. Swim is not doing too well. Hard to concentrate, unable to hold conversations, restlessness, swim has lost 8 pounds since thursday, swim is also pale in color.

birdman1967 added 937 Minutes and 6 Seconds later...

Hi everyone-

Another swim update. Last night was a difficult one for SWIM, in case you are just joining in, SWIM had a panic attack on thursday, hasnt smoked Blends since then or cigs. Today is Monday. Swim still doesnt have an appetite. It has been extremely difficult to eat anything as swim doesnt have any cravings at all. Does anyone know when swim will be able to eat again, he has lost 8lbs since thursday. Anxiety still present but lessening a bit. Had restlessness last night, swim couldnt lie down for longer than 30 seconds before having to get up. Swim is on xanax for the anxiety and is trying to refrain from using them as he wants to be completely sober from now on. Diarrhea is still rampant since thursday. On thursday, swim had 7 bouts of diarrhea, then since only 1x a , day of diarrhea, just barely though as swim hasnt eaten much of anything. No stomach growling, no sense of hunger at all. No headaches, no nausea, swim is a little emotional though, started crying thinking about what swim has done to himself and his family. Any words of encouragement and any words on the withdrawal symptoms would be great. Swim never experienced any withdrawal from cannibas, has quit that at least 3-4x for longer than 2 year breaks with no issues.

Swims concern is the weight loss and lack of appetite. Swim is nervous that he is SUPPOSED to be more hungry since he quit smoking yet cannot seem to get himself to even eat a piece of bread. Its downright scary for swim. Please continue to comment even if you already have. Swim is checking this thread multiple times an hour looking for help, please take the time to let swim know if he will be ok. Thanks

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:01. Reason: post restored
  #8  
Old 27-12-2010, 17:52
Chuck_D Chuck_D is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

i read on another forum of a guy who had very similar reaction.. to something hes taken and has been several months and still has some respritory effects last i heard.

iirc he had used several JWH strains to find out wich he liked the best... but it wasnt until he was smoking a blend of 081,250,210, and i think 203 or 200.

he to had a bad panic attack followed with massive breathing issues.
  #9  
Old 27-12-2010, 19:29
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Chuck, was there any update on this person. My chest just doesnt feel right. I am still a bit anxious and cant get the feeling I had on thursday out of my mind. So I cant tell if I have tightness in the chest from panic/anxiety, from stopping RC or quitting cigs. My body is going through alot right now as we speak. I tried to eat two little pieces of bread and it feels like I am gonna get sick from eating. I took some pepcid to try and get my burping to stop. Does anyone know how long it will take for appetite to return. Is it 1 week, 3 weeks, never? This is starting to freak me out a bit as well, I am normally a big eater, known to eat entire large pizzas all to my own. I am not overweight but 6'6 bout 235 normally, weighing in at 225 now due to the weightloss. I have scheduled an appointment with my PCP on wednesday to discuss all of this, sort of a confession and to set a plan up to ensure that I do jeopardize my life any further. Please let me know on the appetite issues, thanks.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:01. Reason: post restored
  #10  
Old 27-12-2010, 20:34
xxgehenna xxgehenna is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overwatch9 View Post
SWIM has a R/C use philosophy that seems to work. He figures for each bong hit or oral liquid dose equates to roughly one mile to jog or one hour to work out. SWIM finds that frequent use of JWH type compounds tend to drop people below life's mental / physical baseline. And in doing so either abstinence from the R/C, physical labor or fitness training is the only thing that counters that every so slight slide below "baseline".
SWIM hasn't smoked since 12/20 or so (hasn't experienced any withdrawls and was an every day smoker), but he realized that he may have adabted better to it because he usually smoked at work. This kept his mind busy and his body busy. He never had a really scarey overdose, maybe some small frights, and he doesnt have any kind of withdrawl from it. Could that be because he was very active during the times when he was smoking? Maybe being so active during the effects subsides the bad effects because SWIM had all of the good and very little of the bad despite smoking large amounts of JWH-018.
  #11  
Old 28-12-2010, 01:46
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

@XXghena-How long did swim smoke for? Swim doesnt find it hard to believe he is causing most of the issues mentally. Swim has been so worried and anxious which can cause a person not to eat. Swim also has been so nervous that it can cause diarrhea. Swim feels he had a near death experience and it shook swim to swims core. Swim also quit cigs at the same exact moment, so its a combo effect. Swim has a follow up appt with his DR on Wednesday where swim will confess all he has done and all his symptoms. Swim thanks each and every one of you who took the time to respond. Swim hopes noone experiences what he is experiencing.

By note, swim is finding himself close to tears at times as well. Just while talking, swim will tear up and be sad. Swim doesnt know if this is RC or Cigs causing this but knows right now swims mental state is unbalanced. Swim is currently at work, trying to get through swims day. No xanax taken today to try and combat the anxiety on his own. Swim has never had any depression, never had any mood swings and never had problems stopping whatever he has done in the past. Today swim was extremely dizzy and weak, but once again with the anxiety swim hasnt eaten which would make a person weak and dizzy, see the correlation. Swim doesnt want to frighten anyone, but swim feels its his duty to correlate his experiences while coming down off of RC and Cigs together. Today has been just beginning day 4, things seem to be going a bit better, but swim is still on a roller coaster.

Swim has had no desire at all to smoke RC or Cigs, mainly due to the fact that consistently in his mind he is feeling the pressure on his chest and the difficulty to breathe normally without strain. Swim will keep everyone updated daily as to what is occurring, but swim would love for everyone to keep responding as this is keeping swim calm in swims extremely anxious state.

birdman1967 added 149 Minutes and 55 Seconds later...

Has anyone smoked herbal blends for over a year, this is the part that is freaking swim out. Please let me know, swim smoked probably about 150g of herbal blends in the past year. Thanks

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:02. Reason: post restored
  #12  
Old 28-12-2010, 01:57
funkyfish77 funkyfish77 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Swim has smoked several pounds in the past year no major side effects . No worse than
The real thing after constant use . Swim has copd has had for years it has not gotten any worse since the spice . I think if u go into a drug with mental issue u will end up with more issues . No pun attended
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Old 28-12-2010, 02:30
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

@Funky, thanks for giving swim some sanity, all swim is reading are horror stories. Have you ever had the fear and lingering effects for a few days. Swim is so scared he did permanent damage and cant tell if chest issues are from blends, quitting cigs or quitting blends. What blends did swim smoke, what was swims method of choice. Swim used a water bubbler thinking it would be a little more heatlhy if there is such a thing. Swim thinks he is just on an anxiety rampage thinking his life is over.

birdman1967 added 1 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

P.S. Swim never had anxiety or any sort of mental issues. Swim is a hospital professional staff who had to switch to herbals due to new random test policy. Quite scary stuff.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:02. Reason: post restored
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Old 28-12-2010, 05:25
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Swim has been smoking herbal blends for over a year as well. 1-3g a day to every other day. Swiy will be fine if he doesnt mess with the stuff again. He needs to give his brain a rest (It will take a good while but eventually get better). It is clear that most of your symptoms are self induced and what helps me that is this. I look at it like, i can think myself into it, so i can think myself out of it. Its really as simple as a single positive thought in some situations, even though it may not seem like it. Try getting your mind wrapped around some positive thoughts. It should also be of some comfort to you knowing that swim has smoked at least 2-3x the amount you have. Best wishes to ya, contact me if you need anything at all. Just know that you will eventually be fine. Your only enemy is time my friend.
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Old 28-12-2010, 06:20
birdman1967 birdman1967 is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Thanks Steezy- Swim just cannot stop thinking about the anxiety swim is feeling. It currently is like a viscous circle. Swim cannot even watch tv because his mind is just on the feelings in swims chest. Swims wife is getting really upset with him that he cannot cope and is growing frustrated of him saying he needs to go back to the ER. Swim is so restless and swims mind is going 1k miles an hour. Swim doesnt know if it has to do with quitting smoking cigs as well, but Swim feels as though there is constant chest pressure right on the chest bone, and burning when I breathe. It is weird, never had this until swim tried to quit. Maybe it is the reparation of the tissues. But swim is over anxious right now and extremely emotional as well. I have been quick to turn to tears when feeling sad. Does anyone know how long this OVER anxiety lasts for when quitting blends. Never had the anxiety before the blends, been smoking 1 package a week 3g, and now this. All help is greatly appreciated. Xanax are not cutting it as well, mind is still all over the place. Swim has no other major symptoms other than those listed. Ate the most today since quitting, still has diarrhea and just majory anxiety like never experienced before along with emotional bursts.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:03. Reason: post restored
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Old 28-12-2010, 08:30
xxgehenna xxgehenna is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

SWIM smoked store blends for around 4 months and homemade blends for about 6 months. Give or take, SWIM smoked alot. SWIM and his friend usually smoked a "blunt"(1g of blend) a day and between 3 and 5 "blunts" a night.
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Old 28-12-2010, 16:36
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Hey Birdman,

I've been looking forward to responding to your question. AFOAF i know started on blends only 2 months ago, thinking they were harmless and loving the availability, ease of using, and high similar but not as full as cannabis. Feller used about 100 grams of blends in a month, up to 3-5 grams a day. Then the feller got a gram of JWH-018 and a gram of JWH-250, and just started vaping big hits all day. THEN cat goes back on blends then they ban the sale so this cat (he is from another country, i think it is Korea or some place) orders 14 g of JWH018 and JWH073 and finishes it in 2 weeks, making blends, infusions, vaping, etc.

Fella thought cat was gonna die too. But cat made it back. Cat is lucky to have had that capability or have been allowed to continue living. So he is going to do the right thing and pass the knowledge on to Birdman, because Karma is the rule for spiritual growth- pass it on!

Feller is dictating this to me as I type.. Cat says, "hear me out this will sound flaky but you will be ok."

Let's look at this from many angles: first and foremost physical and mechanical. People like to take cannabanoids- the chemicals seem to activate the third eye chakra, they give us insights, allow us to better see what is righteous for humankind, enhance pleasure, block some pain, relieve stress, the benefits to anyone are countless, even just for facilitating a daily reflection moment or insights.

Let's face it the human brain HAS cannabanoid receptors. Why? they are for no other purpose then to receive cannabis, so it is human to smoke. However, the brain has cb1 and cb2 receptors. This will be important in a minute.

JWH has effects different than marijuana. It seems to affect cats quickly and intensely, but for not as long. Marijuana is the kind of drug where the more you take the less effect you get, it self-regulates so that abuse is not as appealing as moderate, respectful use. And the plant has many cb2 agonists and other cannabanoids. Marijuana makes a spectrum of natural agonists. This is relevant cuz the cb2 agonists seem to keep cats grounded, they counteract the effects of cb1's, which make you feel like youre flying in the sky. cb2's make cats sleepy and hungry, and help restore energy lost from excessive consumption.

JWH can be tricky, because 018, the strong one that feels like the dankest bud, we notice the most. Blends with JWH-018 and JWH-073 in a good balance seem less likely to cause the fear of death that you are experiencing.

AFOAF says that the mechanism is the following: a feller gets too high on JWH and can not get grounded again, not sure what had happened to the body and if he will be ok, and racing thoughts and a lack of healing make the feeling chronic.

Bear with me cat knows he is wordy but this is goin somewhere.

Let's guess that the lungs do not prefer to breathe hot smoke. This is known to be true. While marijuana and tobacco are hot, the body may accept the smoke. However, if the chemical is not easily accepted by the lung tissue, what will happen when it is smoked? It will collect in the lungs, as a crystal sheen. Take a deep breath, and a cat will feel the accumulation as your lungs resist expansion. This buildup is physical, but luckily JWH will not likely be toxic just from being in your lungs. It still has a COPD like effect, because a cat's body is too weakened by it to clear it out.

It is possible for cat's body to recognize that a chemical is toxic and the coughing, nausea etc. are a physical response. The body is saying, "how does a cat get this crap out of its lungs?" How does it get out of the lungs? Thats the whole deal with this stuff.

We know marijuana is stored in fat cells. It seems to free itself from the lungs quite easily when we stop, and its slow elimination keeps us from suffering withdrawals. The accumulation and afterburnt effect from metabolizing THC from the fat cells tapers you off naturally. The munchies and sleepiness restore energy through metabolism, thanks to cb2 agonists. JWH is not stored in fat cells. Our body knows it is too strong. Your lungs are saying, "get this crap out of me, it is not good." Take a look at the color of your urine after lots of JWH. Brown-red? Thats the crap leaving your body.

So it doesnt feel like it is clearing out as easily as with cannabis, and that is because our bodies need rest and water to clean the lungs, and JWH clearly makes it harder to eat and drink enough water. If you cant rest, eat, and stay hydrated your body is going to have a lot of trouble eliminating JWH. Because immunity response is so impaired. Thats where all the bad feeling comes from: chest pains, nausea, tightness, heart rate increase.... Blood pressure rising from fatigue, dehydration and the body is recognizing a state of toxicity. The cat's body knows more will be bad, it cant eliminate what is there due to its weakened state.

The tricky part is knowing why it is bad for your cat's body. Because JWH doesnt seem to have a cumulative effect, our cat keep going back for more hits. Too bad it isnt stored in fat cells eh? Thats cuz man made it, it is imperfect. Do you notice the aftereffect of your cat having dilated pupils for days, dry hair and strange skin sensations, aches in your arms and legs and stiffness... yeah JWH could be likened to acid in its effects on the bodily system. Like you, i couldnt come down. Here is what I did to correct it. The paranoia are all from thinking that this problem will never go away.

So here is how to fix it. You have to know you are ok. JWH will be eliminated from your body and your lungs will relax when you stop hurting them. There doesnt even have to be any real chemical accumulation for your body to recognize it as disruptive to the bodily ssytem. They are trying to heal but in healing you are stuck. How stuck? Stopping JWH is the only way to clear them out, but often cats keep administering it thinking that more will solve the problem that we have created. This is the nature of addiction, and also insanity (doing something over and over and expecting different results). Can you eat when you take acid every day? not much. One has to stop JWH so that the cat's body will become tired again, you will sleep for a few days when you are able to relax. Don't fight it with coffee or zanax. Relax and know you will be fine. lay on your back and picture the stuff leaving your cat's lungs. Tell your cat's lungs you love them and you will take better care of them. Apologize to yourcat for doing something so dangerous without knowing what you are getting into. Forgive yourcat too, cuz you didn't mean it, you were only trying to learn.

Because of the lack of cb2 dealy, you can't sleep well, right? stop taking JWH for one day. That morning you have to start drinking water. Oatmeal is a good food for settling the stomach and nerves. Under no circumstances continue drinking coffee, cuz your nerves are shot. You have to force yourself to eat things that your body will easily accept, think along the lines of stuff like oatmeal- nourishing with protein and fiber and slow release carbs. Take a B vitamin to relieve stress. Eat as much bland foods as you can. Try to limit refined sugar, although it will help your body to make serotonin so you can sleep, depending on how much your digestion is impaired.

Some people have to use all of that mental energy to adapt by learning to meditate to go to sleep, controlled breathing,


I went to a reiki healer that I know. She healed me in 15 minutes from cat's JWH oblivion. She found a source of pain in my cat's lungs which correlated with the assemblage point in the body. Cat found that in focusing on that point all the heady effects of JWH became grounded in my body again. It was right between the spine and the right shoulder blade. That point connected the root and crown chakra at the heart chakra, and has something to do with the totality of our being. If your cat gets too high you quit applying anything you "see" to reality. Have you been doing good things with the insights you gained through JWH? Not likely, and don't feel bad, you would have to be a seasoned psychedelic dreamer to fathom the intensity of how this process has rocked you to the core. Focus on your assemblage point and the sky energy will leave your head, wash down over your body and nourish you, but you have to promise yourself that you will use the energy through clear seeing, right action, and honest speech. Your heart will heal through karmic retribution, and when your heart is healed your metabolism will increase and before long you will be drawing energy up from the belly again to nourish your loving heart, because cats take drugs to learn how to love themselves and others, even if they don't know that that is why they are taking them. You can laugh if you like, but I am not the one who is dying.

Birdman, find the point in your lungs where it hurts the most. Meditate on that point and you will feel it emerge from your back. Whenever you feel insane, meditate on that point, like move your attention there, and all of the extra energy that you have caught in your head will be transformed into life energy as it washes down and orbits the body, instead of becoming a blockage to the bodily energy system and kill you energy.,

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Old 28-12-2010, 17:51
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

I'm certain that not eating/not getting nutrients is contributing quite significantly to the continued anxious feelings. I know my tendency towards anxiety shoots up significantly if I haven't had food, especially if I've also had caffeine without any food.

Make certain the person in question isn't indulging in stimulants (coffee, soda - perhaps even chocolate in large doses), and to conquer the problem of not being hungry yet still needing nutrition, one can get those "meal replacement shakes" (Boost, Ensure, Nutrament, store-brand of any of the mentioned brands). Even when I'm super anxious or depressed & have no desire for food/the thought of food makes me nauseous, I can usually manage to suck back one of those cans/bottles; a straw can help. Thankfully, there isn't a ton of liquid in them to get down & they often end up settling my stomach.

You might look up self-soothing techniques & such for people with anxiety; it doesn't matter so much how your friend became anxious, the fact now is that he IS anxious, and the techniques should help regardless, so looking up those things for him should help.

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  #19  
Old 28-12-2010, 18:12
Willyzh Willyzh is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

ps put a heating pad on your chest for a few nights. never smoke JWH 018 again if you havent eaten. I smoke it like 2 hits in the early evening, after a couple hours i can sleep fine. you get mellow and sleep. JWH doesnt sedate much especially cuz of its addictive nature so dont think you will be using it to relax. I consider it like smoking a little acid now. My lungs arent tight and i can eat all the time, i drink less coffee (1 a day) and maintain a healthier weight. Of course we didnt even address you quitting smoking. Those e-cigs are pretty mellow, probably soothing to the lungs if anything. Although nicotine sucks its good to quit only one thing at a time so you are not compounding variables.

This is all a stress response on the surface. Eat when you can sleep when youre tired, quit overdoing mind expanding drugs without focusing on other areas of your life as well. Perhaps some mucinex to relax your lungs, warm steam. If you freak out long enough you will start to get better, it takes like 4-7 days for your body to fix anything substance related.
  #20  
Old 28-12-2010, 23:19
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Willy-Thanks. How long did your anxiety last for. My panic attack was on thursday the 23rd of December. I havent smoked anything, no herbals or cigs since then. I havent consumed anything other than water. I didnt eat anything until about sunday. I am not forcing myself to eat 2 meals a day. Anxiety still there, mind feels like it is moving a million miles an hour. Short term memory is bad, cant remember small things at work. Just feel completely off my game. I hope this is normal from withdrawal from both herbals and cigs. I havent had 1 craving to smoke anything, I just want to live. That is my mindset. I will NEVER smoke anything again. Are these normal withdrawal symptoms to where you cannot concentrate on anything other than your chest even when trying to watch tv. I just feel out of it if that makes sense. I weighed myself today, I am 227 down from 235 pre thursday. I still dont have an appetite at all either, and no desire to drink. Does this sound normal, I need to know I am not going crazy because I feel like I am.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:03. Reason: post restored
  #21  
Old 28-12-2010, 23:57
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

swims really stoned so he can't type much, but cannabis can cause acute psychosis.

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  #22  
Old 29-12-2010, 01:11
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Echoes, way uncool. Thats like the doctor who tells the kid on acid: You fear you are losing your mind because the acid is destroying your brain!

So the kid cant think of anyway out and he loses his mind. Is that what you were trying to do? How uncool. You know what happens when you play around with other people's problems- you get the same problem in the end.

Birdman it is true you blew your lid a bit, but not beyond disrepair. You just need to get grounded again. Its like if you trip and you have a bad trip where you think everyone is out to get you, you might have some residual social anxiety until you can come up with a new perspective.

My anxiety lasted a few days, it probably would have been bad if the cat stopped abruptly after the 14 grams, but he was ingesting and smoking and managed to taper somehow. Overall though, a nightmare feeling for a few weeks while still using it. I lost 15 pounds withdrawing from this shit but also i used to work out daily and my workout grinded to a halt. This stuff is not weed. Its more like acid and some kind of short acting analgesic.

Anxiety is caused by stress, and your last experience compounded your anxiety because it became runaway anxiety- it kept getting stronger.

Lets look again at the process:

- you got so high that you werent sure if you were gonna be ok, because you didn't know what the chemicals were doing to your insides and brain. Here is what they have done to your brain, they have opened your perception farther than you can reasonably make sense of. You are having an anxiety attack. You don't know if you are going to die.

- You could die if you sat around passively wondering if you were going to die. The fear would compound until you were a shaking mess, not sleeping or eating ever, blood pressure would rise wife freaking out, your body can create a seizure situation or heart attack just based on fear.

- the root chakra, the one that keeps you grounded, feeling secure, is also blown right now. you cant eat, you cant sleep, you dont feel safe. Thats where your energy needs to come back from. To open the root chakra again, you have to feel safe. This is where relaxation exercises can help. If you believe in a higher power you may ask him or her to help save you.

-your sexual energy is gone because the root chakra feeds it. im moving up from the base of your spine. you have to feel safe to have sex

-your solar plexus (belly and digesion) are fucked cuz the root chakra feeds it. you have to feel safe to be able to stomach food.

Your heart chakra, as you know, is depleted. Here is the cure: Love. you got to love yourself. Have you considered the necessity of fighting back? I knew with my heart pounding, feeling like i was gonna die, that only right actions and corrective behaviors were gonna re-open my heart and allow me to balance the insane amount of energy that had collected in my cerebellum and practically destroyed me. You got to try to work your way back to normal, none of this waiting around shit. I got up in the morning and started eating when i could, what i could. Your appetite comes back. Eat stuff like fruit and yogurt first since you need to stimulate digestion. Since you probably feel like youre tripping, use this unique state to examine what foods are really good for you and what are not. Oatmeal first thing in the morning is great for the nerves and will soothe the root chakra.

When you decide to fight back, what you are really doing is forcing your body to overcome the toxin. My latest interpretation is that JWH drugs are removed from the lungs like allergens- washed down into the stomach and digested, eventually and with great difficulty. From that perspective, start pounding water nonstop, whether you want to or not. Have you noticed how dark your pee is? That shit has to come out, and high blood pressure is commonly caused by an accumulation of toxins and dehydration. Think about it, the stuff is in our lungs, we feel like we are choking, its cuz our body knows that we are stressing it out. The lungs dont want this shit- it is far from air. But it seems to get stuck in there or our bodies just convulse each time we try to do another hit. And meanwhile all these people are taking huge hits and holding them in as long as they can...... sheesh its asking for trouble, methheaded cats know if it is bad for your lungs dont hold it in as long.

So yeah pound water. And then do this Birdman, start eating mild foods in the morning like oatmeal, yogurt, juice, eggs, delicious edible stuff. Just enough to get some sugar in there and some energy back. you will find if you eat too much that you will start having anxiety more. thats because you really shouldnt eat under stress, but for you it is a necessity at least to get blood sugar up etc.

THEN and trust me on this one bro, DO SOMETHING MELLOW AND DISTRACTING FOR LIKE 2 hours. No matter what you do, make sure its something that you can actually get into. If you can find a way to distract yourself for a few hours your brain will start to wind down. remember you are fighting for your life so dont just say "nothing is going to be any fun" thats just the drugs talking. YOu have to accept this new state and work with it, you can find your way back.

If you can chill out for a while you will start to feel naturally tired although you had been stressed. Nap or just lay down for like 20 minutes, meditate if you know how, know it is just your overactive brain telling you strange things, and you will be fine.

On the mornings that you forced yourself to eat oatmeal fruit juices and what have you (put some honey in your oatmeal, protein powder too), then chilled for a while, and you didnt drink coffee, but you are pounding water all day, your body will start to remember through familiarity how to eat, drink, relax. You have to use all that heady energy though to close the gaps in energy. It might just be a test of your will.

But its all connected. Since the chems are probably washing out through your digestive system and urine, you are wondering if youre gonna die and your heart and thoughts are racing, well, start telling yourself you are gonna live. Drink water and that stuff will come out of you faster, eating will give your body fiber to get it out of your digestive tract (where mucus goes that is not coughed out, through mecanical pathways it is eliminated in 2 ways). As it is eliminated your energy is increasing and your nerves are settling. Promote this process, loud music, tv and stuff will actually aggravate you quite a bit. Create a safe space where you are, no crazy stuff goin on. If you must work i would just make sure you are actively kind to other ppl or they will feed off your insecurity, you should just be proactively smoothing it over.

Im only on like day 3 of this blend taper, i guess i was lucky. I dont know how my cat did 14 grams of 018-073. He can be such a retard sometimes. He thought this stuff was easy streetz. Luckily he kicked heroin on his own and has been on some serious trips before or coming down would suck. He hopes he is helping Birdman's monkey.

You're not going crazy, we all got tricked by this crap. It seems like weed then smokes like something else. Its kinda like smoking weed mixed with a little crack- it sucks.

Birdman I would do a distance Shamanistic healing session for free if we can agree on a time, and you will have to tell me where in the world you live so i can project myself there. Its 8pm now , if you want we can do it at 9 pm, all you have to do is lay down a few minutes before 9. You will know when I am there and what took place, and you will also know when it is done. Someone cured me this way today. Remember i told you about the assemblage point? Did you find some point in your back corresponding with a pain in your chest? If you lay down and meditate on that point only your energy will reach a new balance.

I will always be a word man, never a Bird man. -Jim Morrison

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A really great, helpful, informative & supportive post, with many great ideas, suggestions, tips & tricks for the OP. Well done. Just be careful of incriminating yourself! ;)
  #23  
Old 29-12-2010, 01:23
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Today I have been feeling a bit more calm. I ate my lunch that my wife packed for me, but I am still extremely emotional. I am in the Chicago area here. I think it will probably take me a couple weeks to get straight. I have to calm myself down from this immense fear. I will probably be taking a break from reading things for a little while. I would like to thank you for writing in a calm manner. It was a relief to hear someone explain things and let me know things will be ok. I have an appt tomorrow with my Primary Dr. and will go through everything with him. I am planning on asking to see a pyschologist as I feel anxiety regardless and think it will help me. The pressure in my chest has been less today and breathing a little more easily. I hope this continues with baby steps. Thanks to all.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 02-07-2014 at 19:04. Reason: post restored
  #24  
Old 29-12-2010, 01:58
Willyzh Willyzh is offline
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

Yeah thats cool, you'll be fine. I figured you were working. Theres no way i could get better from this stuff if i was at work. You will be fine.

Cool man, i was just doing my part to pass on what cured me. I thought i was going to die too. I lost it bad. Imagine how bugged out you would be if your cat had done 14 grams in like 2 weeks! When my life is saved, code of the samurai.

Glad you feel that things are looking up. Dont take it lightly now, you went to the place where all of the people who DO die have gone. You CAN die from these chemicals. And if we are not practicing harm reduction in our drug policies, this is what kind of hellish nightmares will happen to people who really just want to smoke weed, which is free, perfect, and a gift from God.

The government's argument was that weed "kills brain cells"? The next 100 CB RC's that kids test out on themselves don't seem more promising than a harmless plant. Give the people what they want. And yeah Birdman, i have felt my best when i dont do any drugs at all.
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Old 30-12-2010, 14:09
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Re: 13 months Herbal Incense use Issues...

I can totally relate to the type of anxiety you speak of. I had it long before I even smoked anything at all. It's funny the way anxiety works - the more you try to make it stop, the worse it becomes. I went for a couple of years focusing on curing my anxiety and it just got worse until I just let go and accepted it as a temporary feeling that is simply a thought. Xanax was a lifesaver to me and I've never abused it because just knowing I have access to it in case of an anxiety attack is usually enough to prevent me having one.

Overwatch9 is absolutely right when he said the following:
<<<< The after effects are that they, mentally, are convinced they have somehow damaged themselves. Their heightened sense of concern manifests itself in the form of symptoms. Chest pain, anxiety, sweating, heart palpitations, breathing irregularities, etc. This reaffirms and fuels their first problem (heightened sense of concern) and the vicious cycle starts. Over time their sleep cycle will be destroyed, diet will be random / abnormal and gastrointestinal woes will follow -- each making their own contributions to new or existing symptoms. Normally when an individual disregards a valid medical exam / report in lieu of their own belief of illness is the first real sign of problems.>>>>>>>>

Oddly, SWIM started experiencing that with normal marijuana and it led to unpleasant, paranoid thoughts each time he smoked. These thoughts were just a vague feeling that something was wrong or that something bad was going to happen, etc. This wasn't based in any reality, just the result of neural pathways created while smoking during a bad emotional period which became linked to the smoking. The cannabis receptors triggered these thoughts every time SWIM smoked. Of course, that didn't stop SWIM from smoking when he had some.

It was actually using the Spice/JWH blends that allowed SWIM to enjoy the cannabis experience again without feeling the paranoia. So, I don't think it's necessarily the Spice that is causing the anxiety, but the fact that you believe that it is. And that gets reinforced by the fact that so many people talk about RC and how they aren't safe. The more you read about others having bad experiences, the more it confirms everyone's fears, whether or not these fears are based in fact or not, people will begin to manifest physical symptoms if they believe something is causing it. And this is especially true of cannabis because it seems to make everything more intense. I know that SWIM has talked himself into thinking he was freezing to death in the middle of summer. It seems to make people much more open to the power of suggestion and once that takes hold, it creates pathways in the brain which make it easier and easier to go there each time one is in that state.

If I were the OP, I would just take it all as a case of over-indulging, which has created a flight or fight syndrome when exposed to that substance. I've never heard of anyone dying or permanently damaging themselves by route of cannabis receptors, whether the agonist is herbal or synthetic. Of course, don't over do anything. I had a friend who got extremely ill from taking too much yohimbe, a natural herb you can buy at any nutrition store, so just because something is natural doesn't mean you should be consuming huge amounts. And when it comes to JWH-018, it should be treated with as much respect as any other chemical/drug you put into your body. Basically, in this case it seems like the OP should take a rest from it for a while and then use it in only very small doses so his brain starts to associate it with pleasant experiences, not negative ones.

Oh yeah, the electronic cigarette is definitely the way to go if you are a nicotine user. It actually moistens the lungs and I can smoke all day on one without getting even a cough. Tales a few days of practice to get used to it, but once you do you'll never want to inhale smoke again.

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