Drug info - ever lick or smoke a toad (Bufotenine)?

[KillroyMindless]

You guys making SWIM have guilt trips SWIM smoked on last year venom and skin SWIM says srry if offending anyone. Yes you can get high but stick with alternative hallucanagens

[bman1]

Snapper does swis have more any information about breeding b alvarius? swib has been breeding E. tricolor, D leucomelas, D. tinctorius, D. auratus, D. Pumilio, and d azureus for many years among a few others here and there, but continually breeds these frogs. So Swib has experience with breeding. Swib also has several close friends who breed many other herps. Swib and swibs friends supply many of the amphibians in the city swib is from. Swib has attempted to breed the alvarius with no success. Swib is also trying to breed some P. Bicolor with no success. Any information on that would be great. Swib has never seen or heard of alvarius captive breed for sale. Swib also has been in the herp business for many years and has very close ties with the local zoo which is were swib can take sick amphibians for care since no vet knows anything about them most of swibs frogs actually came from the head of the reptile and amphibians department at the local zoo. Also one of swibs closest friends owns the largest reptile and amphibian store in swibs area. From swibs understanding the bicolor has only been successful breed by one breeder in California. This person wrote details in reptilla magazine which swib has a subscription. This person had a large amount of these frogs and only had one pair breed. Swib has never seen any publications on breeding the alvaius. Do swis know of any? From swibs understanding they need to be injected with a hormone to be able to breed in captivity, which swib does not want to do.

Bearded where did swib post misinformation? Please point it out swib always is interested in learning more and better care for swibs pets. Swib agrees with snapped more here Swibs toads do not like it very moist they are a desert toad. Swib does not think a desert is very moist. They only like water when breeding. They do live very close to water in the wild not more than about a mile from what swib has read. Swib also read one will find them on the edge of the water not swimming alouth they almost have webed feet so not impossible. but the area around the water is dry When swib has keeped swibs cage moist It has caused a red bacteria in which swib had to spray super sulfa to get rid of it. Do you not thionk they can dig in a dry substrate? Swib agrees with some of your post they are not much different to care for than a regular toad, but do you think the average person knows how to properly take care of a toad, when the toad gets sick or bacteria do you think one could just take it to a vet?

How big is ones Rubbermaid container? Swib houses a pair in a 100 gallon tall terrium and swib thinks this is small because they love to move and hop. Swib agrees if one were to buy these toads it should be as a pet not a drug factory and the way some post here they seem more interested in a drug rather than a great pet. Swib also agrees they have great character for toads.

Also one needs more vitamins than just calcium carbonate. Swib uses Rep-Cal multivitamins along with their calcium. Swib also buys special gut load for swibs insects and feeds them a large variety of fruits and vegetables. Swib breeds 5 different roaches, crickets, and wax worms. In a good week swibs 2 toads go through about 50-100 crickets, and 5-25 large roaches. If a person were to buy this amount of insects it would be very expensive. These toads live 10+ years so multiply that amount of insects by that many years. So it is MUCH cheaper to just buy 5-meo-dmt if that is all one is interested in. Swib would hate to feed swibs animals only one kind of insect. Swib would hate to only eat one thing for the rest of swibs life. How about you? They eat so many different things in the wild. Kind of mean to only feed them dusted crickets. Swib sometimes buys pinky mice, but not often because of the high fat content which can cause vision problems.

[bearded]

Originally Posted by bman1

Swib does not think a desert is very moist. They only like water when breeding. They do live very close to water in the wild not more than about a mile from what swib has read.

it may be true that these toads come from a desert environment, but like all desert animals, you need to look at the microhabitat. precipitation does not occur regularly. these animals manage to find moisture somewhere. where is there moisture retained in a desert? under stones, at the base of clumps of plant matter. underneath things, generally. it'll be cooler, and more humid.

originally, baby g. sulcata tortoises were kept in a dry environment...because they come from a desert. a lot of these tortoises grew up with shell deformaties. by looking at the microhabitat, it was discovered that they spend a lot of time digging in the desert vegetation...there is a ton of humidity there.

Swib also read one will find them on the edge of the water not swimming alouth they almost have webed feet so not impossible. but the area around the water is dry

Yes, these guys will swim. try it. what area around any body of water is dry? sand, dirt, ect. absorb up water. the only frogs SWIM has ever experienced bacterial infections in are red eyes and whites, for some reason.

When swib has keeped swibs cage moist It has caused a red bacteria in which swib had to spray super sulfa to get rid of it.

its SWIM's opinion that these infections may be caused by poor husbandry skills. stagnant air + moist substrate is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria. introduce fresh air, turn the substrate often, and change it frequently. if using coir, that doesnt mean throw it out. throw the moist, dirty coir in the oven at the lowest setting for an hour, and then remove. allow to cool, and reuse. this will kill a lot of bacteria.

do you not thionk they can dig in a dry substrate?

have you ever tried to make a sand castle in dry sand?

Swib agrees with some of your post they are not much different to care for than a regular toad, but do you think the average person knows how to properly take care of a toad, when the toad gets sick or bacteria do you think one could just take it to a vet?

yes, SWIM believes if the toad gets sick, starts losing weight, or looks to have a bacterial infection, it should see a vet. infact, SWIM thinks you should have a knowledgable, recognized vet that treats herps before you even get the herps. no point in rushing them into a vet that specializes in dogs, and no point in making the animal suffer because you think you can treat the problem ... you aren't a vet.

How big is ones Rubbermaid container? Swib houses a pair in a 100 gallon tall terrium and swib thinks this is small because they love to move and hop.

SWIM isn't familiar with the dimensions of a 100 gallon tall, but if it's a 110XH (48"x18") or 120 (48"x24"), he feels that is enough room for two adult toads. why the high tank though? SWIM doesn't think they will utilize all that space. the rubbermaid container SWIM uses is 42"x18". biggest rubbermaid SWIM has ever seen, and uses it for lots of reptiles.

Swib agrees if one were to buy these toads it should be as a pet not a drug factory and the way some post here they seem more interested in a drug rather than a great pet. Swib also agrees they have great character for toads.

Regardless of how either SWIM or SWIY feel, other people are going to continue to purchase these toads as "drug factories." SWIM feels it is up to him, SWIY, and SWIEVERONE to keep everyone informed so these toads atleast have a chance at a somewhat happy life. Nothing would be worse than having one of these toads die because information wasn't right infront of SWIsomeoneelse, and they were too lazy to look it up.

Also one needs more vitamins than just calcium carbonate. Swib uses Rep-Cal multivitamins along with their calcium. Swib also buys special gut load for swibs insects and feeds them a large variety of fruits and vegetables. Swib breeds 5 different roaches, crickets, and wax worms. In a good week swibs 2 toads go through about 50-100 crickets, and 5-25 large roaches.

SWIM agrees with SWIYs supplement regime. The Rep-Cal blue container and pink container in combination will provide enough extras for your toads. The gutloading is probably overkill, but it shows SWIY cares for his animals well.

same thing goes for the variety of insects you feed. it's unneccessary, but a nice extra to show you care. SWIM doesnt feed nearly as much to his toads as you do, and they keep on weight. SWIY must have some chubbins.

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIMs alvarus amplexed several times, laid some eggs in the mud in the water dish when first acquired. None since, but SWIM has not tried. SWIM would adopt the dry out, then flood with ice water stragegy. This works for many species dependent on runoff to trigger breeding. Given that these are Colorado river toads, deluge conditions would likely work the best.

SWIM has had them lay eggs also, but never taken the next step to care for them. SWIMs specialty isn't breeding amphibians. SWISnapper would probably know more about inducing breeding than SWIM.

SWIM does know for a fact that these are bred in captivity, as some of SWIMs wholesalers have had available for him all life stages of this toad (tadpole, toadlet?, and ages of toad), and has garuntee they were from a captive breeding. SWIM trusts his source for this almost as much as he trusts his source for good quality H.

They do burrow, but the key is to have a barely damp substrate. The coconut fiber is good because it does not seem to harbor moisture for too long.

Agreed.

Injecting frogs to breed is a cop-out. You can breed alvarus if you want to naturally. All amphibians have a trigger, and you just need to replicate it.

Agreed again. SWISnapper will figure it out for the world one day, and hopefully publish.

[snapper]

SWIMs alvarus amplexed several times, laid some eggs in the mud in the water dish when first acquired. None since, but SWIM has not tried.
SWIM would adopt the dry out, then flood with ice water stragegy. This works for many species dependent on runoff to trigger breeding. Given that these are Colorado river toads, deluge conditions would likely work the best.
SWIM uses a glass terrarium which suits them fine. They do burrow, but the key is to have a barely damp substrate. The coconut fiber is good because it does not seem to harbor moisture for too long. which They eat insects, mainly king meal worms and crickets, with the occasional lobster or hissing roach or pinkie and only need to be fed about 1x week. SWIM thinks Bman1 spoils the toads - SWIM feeds far less and the animals maintain their weight nicely.
You are correct in that only one person has bred bicolor, but they are probably not the most difficult if you have a big rainchamber. Funny you should mention it, but SWIM has worked with bicolor for years. Worst red leg ever when they get it, but SWIM found out the right way to house (really hot driy top with water bottom). SWIMs never bred bicolor, though, but will one day.
Injecting frogs to breed is a cop-out. You can breed alvarus if you want to naturally. All amphibians have a trigger, and you just need to replicate it.

[bman1]

Swibs also has found swibs alavius in amplex several times each year. Swibs female seems to lay one clutch of eggs each year. But never fertile.
Has swis ever seen any publication on breeding the alvarius besides the graduate from havard who used a hormone?

Swib agrees with you snapper swib does spoil all of swibs pets. Why not if one is to keep such an animal? Swibs toads are of the correct weight but get plenty of exercise in the tank. Swib would feel bad if swib did not spoil all his pets and give them everything they need and than some. because thats how swib wants to live so why not give it to swibs pets Swib is trying to save species not torture them. Swib has hooked up a mist system to swibs Bicolor tank and the humidity can reach 100% if left on but swib has it on a timer. Does swis know what kind of leaf they might best lay an egg on?
Could swib PM you snapper to further talk about this since swib is now a bit off of the original topic?


Swib just hates when people ask question as "would it be morally ok to keep one as a pet hooked to a milking machine?" Of coarse it is not morally right to swib. Call peta and ask them the same question

[bearded]

Originally Posted by bman1

Swib just hates when people ask question as "would it be morally ok to keep one as a pet hooked to a milking machine?" Of coarse it is not morally right to swib. Call peta and ask them the same question

SWIM agrees it isn't very nice to keep the toads just for milking, but in all fairness...call PETA and ask them anything and they'll b**ch.

[bman1]

sorry to double post but we must have posted at the same time. bearded has you supplier published anything can you pm swib with information on breading the alvarius? swibs are in such a tall terrium because swib started them out in a regular and the tended to hop, in a tall tank they can not reach the top. Swib realizes people will buy them for drug factories and it just pisses swib off swib has honestly never milk swibs toads swib thought about it when swib first got them turned one upside down the little dude started making that noise like another male was on his back and pissed all over the place so swib could not go through with it. On a few occasion swib has pick them up the move them while swib cleans the tank and they have gotten scared and some got in swibs hand were swib could use. but can not go though milking. Peta was a joke

[bearded]

Sorry, SWIM's supplier has no published work about breeding the B. alvarius. Even so, giving information like that may lead to SWIMs identity being revealed.

Peta was a joke

Was, or is?

[bman1]

Originally Posted by bearded

Was, or is?

swib thinks both. The supplier should publish swib thinks they would be a first to publish the natural breeding of them.

[bearded]

Originally Posted by bman1

swib thinks both. The supplier should publish swib thinks they would be a first to publish the natural breeding of them.

Maybe, but SWIM is pretty sure that the supplier wasn't that actual breeder, just a middleman for distribution.

[Spare Chaynge]

swim just orderd one swim dosent think he could hurt these guys can you just milk them gently swim was only planning on keeping klyde frog to himself not sharing (thats what swim named him) swim knows hes a toad.

[snapper]

Yes, you can hurt them if you try to milk the parotids and do not know how. In fact, you can hurt them if you do know how. Why not just get some of the stock chemical -there is no difference except with the stock chem, you can weigh the dose? Then keep your toad as a pet. They make great pets...

SWIM knows a SWIM who knows a SWIM who has found that they breed easily and in the same manner than other toads, only since they are desert animals, it makes the process even easier. Look up B. alvarus' natural history and figure it out..

[kryptik]

swim knows of the toads swiy is lookin for. there is a site online that sells them... swim always wondered what the hell they were used for, but found out. swim was googling something else that day, and the link for those toads popped up.

just google, you'll find it.