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Concerta & Ritalin About Methylphenidate.

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  #1  
Old 26-11-2010, 14:29
Aj Sparx Aj Sparx is offline
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SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

So, last month, SWIM failed a drug test (for marijuana) at his doctor's office when he went in to get his ritalin prescription refilled, and received a call a few days later informing him that that doctor could no longer prescribe him his ADHD meds, which are definitely needed for schoolwork/recreation. SWIM was wondering if drug test results are accessible by other doctors, and if he could simply get his prescription renewed by a different doctor...?

Aj Sparx added 1 Minutes and 38 Seconds later...

Additional info: SWIM resides in Michigan, USA, if that makes any difference

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Good use of SWIM on first post.Welcome to the forum.
Interesting issue brought to light. Great first post.

Last edited by Aj Sparx; 26-11-2010 at 14:29. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 26-11-2010, 17:09
fizzle fizzle is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

That is a tough question. However I think that you must give consent for any information to be transferred to another doctor. My dog has switched doctors many times due to college, jobs, and whatnot and has had to have his records transferred a few times. You can actually select which kind of records should be sent. At least from his experience, you can request that any drug use/abuse history not be sent (at the time this was out in Oregon, mind you, so they are pretty liberal over there if that means anything in this case).

It is an unfortunate scenario, no doubt, but do not fret. If possible, find a new doctor. Many do not care so much about the use of marijuana and will have no problem continuing treatment for ADHD. And even if they do care, they do not have to know that you use/used it.

I hope all works out.

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True - a release of consent must be approved by patient. If a patient did not approve certain documents it would be illegal.
  #3  
Old 26-11-2010, 17:37
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

It would be on the records that get sent to the new doctor. The new doctor would want to know why the old one isn't prescribing it anymore. I've never heard of being able to pick and choose what files you want to be transfered and which ones you don't. Not saying you're lying, Fizzle, I've jus never heard of such a thing. It would look very suspicious if you only gave the new doc part of your record, he'd wonder where the rest of it is.

You're best bet is to find a new doctor and be totally honest. You have to be willing to quit smoking pot though. A new doctor might not care but I think most will care. They may even want to do regular drug tests to make sure, it's not uncommon. If you find a sympathetic doc that you can just explain that you screwed up and got high but won't do it again and be willing to take drug tests, they would probably understand. If you try to hide it and the new doctor finds out about it though, they will sureley cut you off. You're best bet is to be honest.

If you really need the ADD meds, you've got to be willing to stop smoking pot. I know that's tough but that's just how it is. You've got to decided which one you want more and go with it. Or try that spice shit

Good luck.

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good and frank advice on that the OP must now make a choice between ADD meds and marijuana...
  #4  
Old 26-11-2010, 17:37
Mesageto Mesageto is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Swim knows a purple dragon that has a doctor that knows of his drug past, and has tested positive for substances while taking adhd meds, Its all about your doctor and just convince him that you are trying to quit ect., Hope this help! Not all doctors will just stop giving you your meds because you fail a test exspecailly for thc.
  #5  
Old 26-11-2010, 18:39
Wanderer Wanderer is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

SWIFizzle and SWIMovingPictures are both correct to an extent.

One must typically give consent to have records transferred from one doctor to another, or anyone else for that matter. There is a letter of informed consent which one should have signed when meeting a doctor for the first time which outlines which records may be sent and to whom in advance. Sort of giving pre-permission. The reason for this might be for emergency care where the emergency physician needs access to the patient's medical history and the patient is incapacitated and in a state where they cannot give their history.

When finding a new doctor, it is much easier if one has a letter of introduction from the previous physician. This helps outline the patient's history and current treatment. Mr. Hamster would say it might be difficult to get one of these from the doctor which doesn't mention the failed drug test.

Without the letter, it's typically asked that the patient allow the records to be transferred, though it's not a strict requirement. It does help things go smoothly when making a transition.

Just walking into another doctor off the street after having been in a town for a long time and having a medical history with a current physician doesn't mean a hamster won't be given a new prescription. It will be highly unlikely, that until the physician gains trust in a hamster, the physician will dispense just anything the hamster asks for, especially a controlled substance.

SWIMovingPictures is correct in stating that one must be totally honest with the new physician and state exactly why they are there and explain the failed drug test. A hamster must also be sincere in giving up the marijuana, especially if he might be drug tested again. That will cause him to lose credibility with the new physician. At that point, the hamster would be back where he started and looking for a new doctor.

Another possibility might happen is that the two physicians know each other as well. They might play golf together, belong to the same professional associations, attend meetings together and such. It's a small community, especially so among psychiatric community. So being honest is best. Hiding the truth, and lying about things have a tendency not to hold up in the long term.

Looking for different doctors in a short period of time and filling prescriptions from them might also raise some suspicion, especially with controlled substances. A flag might be raised indicating the hamster might be "doctor shopping." This would effectively shut the hamster down, and potentially send the hamster to a tribunal of hamsters where he could face severe penalties.

The best course of action would be probably in this order:
  1. Speaking with the hamster's existing physician again and getting a clear explanation as to why he is being denied his refill, and request a retest. The hamster must be honest about why he failed the drug test and continue to work so that future tests will remain clean. Regaining that trust between physician and hamster may be very hard to do.
  2. See another physician and be completely honest about the hamster's medical history, why he is seeking out a new physician, and discuss with the new physician what the options might be. This includes being honest about marijuana use and the failed drug test.
  3. If that fails, repeat step number 2 until one finds a physician who is sympathetic to the hamster's plight and will work together with him to make sure his medication and treatment goals are reached.

Mr. Hamster hopes all works out well for the hamster or chinchilla who is in this bind.

Be well...
  #6  
Old 28-11-2010, 19:12
fizzle fizzle is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

MovingPictures, my dog has seen a few different kinds of consent forms, some have had the option to check which records can be transferred (e.g. drug use/abuse, x-rays), while others have simply required a signature stating that records be sent. In Oregon (at this one doctors office) you could choose which records, in NC the experience my dog has had has been a mix of the two. That does not mean that holds true for every doctor in that state, or every doctors office.

Now, my dog saw a psychiatrist for 4 years before moving out West and his psych told him indirectly that he would not send drug abuse records. He said, and I quote, "my first job is to do no harm." What he meant was that he would not send any records that might prevent my dog from getting treatment for ADHD. Granted, my dog was in a very liberal part of NC at the time, so it really is a matter of how lucky you are to pick the right doc and the relationship you form, like Wanderer said.

My dog then went out to Oregon (another very liberal place), getting post-dated scripts filled along the way (he drove out there). He went to a psychiatrist at first, but was denied treatment right as he walked in the door because this psychiatrist was worried that my dog would sell his meds to local college kids (denying treatment for a reason like that is an entirely different matter). So he then saw a primary care doc who had absolutely no problem giving swim a script for Adderall (l/d amphetamine salts) XR when the dog showed him his previous prescription bottle. The doc even switched him to Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) ER. He did this the entire time without any records from his previous psychiatrist.

Now my dog finds himself in a similar situation back home. He went to a primary care doc who had no issues writing a new script for Dexedrine ER. The current doc then got records from the doc out West, (non from his psychiatrist) and has had no issues at all.

Perhaps it is all luck of the draw. However, from my dog's experience I can conclude that a primary care doc is more likely to continue treatment rather than a psychiatrist.
  #7  
Old 28-11-2010, 20:09
Wanderer Wanderer is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzle
So he then saw a primary care doc who had absolutely no problem giving swim a script for Adderall (l/d amphetamine salts) XR when the dog showed him his previous prescription bottle. The doc even switched him to Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine) ER. He did this the entire time without any records from his previous psychiatrist.
This is almost as good as a letter from the previous physician, and will most times work just as well when seeking new treatment. Without a letter of introduction, it's a good idea to take any filled prescription bottles to the first consultation with a new physician.

As far as consent forms, in the US, medical records and medical licensing is done at the State level and there may be some differences from one state to another regarding requirements. Generally there are two forms, one when visiting a physician for the first time stating what information a hamster will allow the physician to release. Then typically, the new physician may ask the patient to fill out a form requesting that their medical records be released and transferred to the new physician. Nod Mr. Hamster isn't a lawyer, but he knows a bit about contract law, and the second letter approving release and requesting transfer may not have exclusionary clauses in it WRT what records are transferred or not. It may be that the whole set of records is transferred since the second letter of release and transfer supersedes the original informed consent form since it is submitted at a later date and covers all the records.

What Mr. Hamster is saying is that chinchillas and hamsters should be careful and be aware of what they are signing in a physician's office regarding who can have what sort of information. These are technically contracts, and they are typically written by lawyers to cover the doctor, and not the patient.

Be careful, be well...
  #8  
Old 28-11-2010, 22:58
Zainal Zainal is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

tell you doctor that it's Medicinal Cannibus (please don't use the fake name marijuana). That and it's #@$&%! weed!!!!! i'ts not like you tested positive for Meth......

look your doctor in the face. tell him that if he has a problem with cannabis then you have a problem with him holding a license as a doctor......it's a FREAKING HERB.

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Not helpful in this context, not relevent to OPs situation, and is advise that could lead to very negative consequences
  #9  
Old 28-11-2010, 23:56
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

"FREAKING HERB" is an illegal freaking drug! For good or ill, it's against the law to use maijuana recreationaly. If you tell the doctor what you suggest, he'll tell you to get the fuck out and if you don't, he'll call security. Doing what you're suggesting is a guarenteed way NOT to get back on the pills. When you are prescribed highly abusable drugs like amphetamines, it is perfectly reasonable and common for your doctor to drug test you for illegal drugs. They want to know if you are using drugs because that will let them know if you're likely to abuse the medicine they're prescribing you.

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Good advice, and not just for checking abuse, but other dangers as well.
  #10  
Old 28-11-2010, 23:59
Wanderer Wanderer is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zainal View Post
tell you doctor that it's Medicinal Cannibus (please don't use the fake name marijuana). That and it's #@$&%! weed!!!!! i'ts not like you tested positive for Meth......
No, No, No!

If the doctor is worth anything, he may ask for proof of prescription. Lying to a physician is not the best way to start a relationship.

Besides what would a hamster do if asked to take a drug test in order to get treatment from that physician at a later date and tested positive? The chinchilla or hamster would be caught in a lie. A fine way to end a relationship.

If a hamster uses recreationaly, then they should say so. If the doctor has a problem with that, then find another physician who understands.

Lying to, or withholding information from the physician regarding medical conditions, prescriptions, lifestyle, etc. can be potentially hazardous and life threatening. The physician must know as much as possible in order to treat effectively.

There is absolutely no reason to lie to a physician regarding one's condition due to doctor patient confidentiality, at least in the US and most parts of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zainal View Post
look your doctor in the face. tell him that if he has a problem with cannabis then you have a problem with him holding a license as a doctor......it's a FREAKING HERB.
That's just plain condescending and insulting, and there is no need to insult a physician for trying to help a hamster.

There are typically many more than just one doctor in town. It may take a while, but find one who matches a hamster's style.

Be nice, be well...
  #11  
Old 29-11-2010, 14:51
Aj Sparx Aj Sparx is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

SWIM's current plan involves moving to California (ha), but he does tend to go with the "nice" approach usually; he just doesn't like the prospect of visiting several doctors, it would take too long. Finals are approaching quickly...
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:20
imyourlittlebare imyourlittlebare is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zainal View Post
it's reasons for being illegal are political and stupid and I'm not going to go into it. My only beef with the doctor is that the person is not on a drug....drugs are as far as i know man made, cannabis is a plant
anything the good lord put on this planet shouldn't be allowed by any government anywhere to restricted
and if your an atheist then you probably agree with my position even without the religious reasoning
theres plenty of threads on this subject. Opium, datura, nutmeg, digitalis, coca, and all those all natural herbs brah have the same risks as man made. Look it up. And plenty of threads available on how gasp discontinuation of pot causes withdrawal similar to cocaine/amphetamines and is reinforcing through opiate receptors. All and all, the herb argument is not a good one. do your hw on here before posting.

The OP is in a predicament. Even if new neuropsych tests were administered to show a need for the meds, the possible effects of pot on neuropsych functioning would be hard to distinguish from ADHD. Did OP have original neuropsych reports prior to any substance use? If so, it would work in your favor. Being honest, maintaining a good relationship with the current doc. Setting up a plan, using alternative medications like wellbutrin or the FDA approved strattera (not as effective, but its the consequences of SWIYs actions). After a while of negative drug tests AND if strattera fails to manage ADHD symptoms AND neuropsych tests reveal similar results as in past then i couldnt imagine why things couldnt get back to normal especially if one negotiates with the doctor. Perhaps suggesting a "contract" of some sorts where failure of another drug test would automatically suspend your use of the schedule II medication and that failure to adhere to his rules will have consequences or something. And maybe add that you will see a therapist regarding not only ADHD symptoms but pot use. It shows initiative and effort, makes the doctor feel respected, and at the same time, its all what should be done in the first place so there shouldnt be any snags or problems. This seems to me a lot better than having to go through the hastle of a new doctor. ESP if doc treated long time with ADHD meds (since OP was young) and now being a young adult or whatever you are, mistake was made. Second chances are available if you utilize some of the advice on here whether its mine or others. Except on the medical marijuana lie. That is not a good plan.

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Good suggestions, thanks for re-railing this discussion.

Last edited by imyourlittlebare; 03-12-2010 at 05:31.
  #13  
Old 07-12-2010, 14:05
Aj Sparx Aj Sparx is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Unfortunately, SWIM says that he's never touching alternative ADHD medications ever again, wellbutrin gave him the night from hell. After that, SWIM even believes in actively malicious spirits/demons.
And to "imyourlittlebare:" SWIM was visiting this doctor for the first time, his previous doctor would not change his ADHD dose, because supposedly he didn't know much about ADHD treatment, so he sent SWIM to this other doctor.
SWIM has only had ADHD medication for the past several months, because he was homeschooled, and his parents were there to give him a good whack if he got distracted. Now that SWIM is in college, he has to get homework done on his own initiative, which is quite difficult without his medication.
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Old 07-12-2010, 15:34
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

could also try finding a more liberal doctor. my friends doctor prescribes him benzo's knowing that he is a pot smoker/opiate user, but he also has been seeing the same doc for 6 years or so. she is a very nice lady, and a little more open than many other doc's, which is also why she books 2.5 months+ in advance, when other psychiatrists are available at the same hospital.
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Old 07-12-2010, 17:19
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Is it normal for a psychiatrist to do drug tests? I have been seeing one for, gez, 15 years and have never seen/heard of such a thing and I don't think anyone in my family has, either. I suffer from ADD/ADHD, but haven't found a med that works. Dexedrine didn't work at the time and Concerta causes too many muscle spasms/side effects. Does getting prescribed stimulants increase doctors testing? This is news to me, so I'm curious.
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Old 07-12-2010, 17:42
Wanderer Wanderer is offline
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Sometimes it is normal for a doctor to do a drug test to check for several things.

  • Is the patient taking the medication correctly.
  • Is the patient on an effective dose.
  • Has the patient been taking the medication outside the prescribed guidelines.
  • Is the patient taking any other medications which might or might not be contraindicated.
  • Is the patient taking any medications which might have potential for abuse.
  • Is the patient possibly abusing a medication.

Blood tests and urine samples may also be collected in order to determine if the hepatic, renal and other systems are functioning properly and have not sustained damage. The information packets sometimes state prescribing some medications warn of potential liver, kidney and other problems. They also have warnings and contraindications regarding some potential interactions between medications which might cause damage.

Hopefully the doctor is doing this as part of his due dilligence to ensure the patient is not being harmed by his treatment plan.

This is one more important reason to be honest with the physician. He cannot help his fullest potential unless he knows the complete medical history.

Be honest with the doctor, he is bound by doctor patient confidentiality. After all, he really does have the patient's best interest at hear, or what he feels is the patient's best interest. They are not always correct, they may be doctors, but they also suffer from the same human frailties everyone else does. One is always free to find another physician who better suits their needs as well, and it is crucial to have a good non-judgmental rapport with the physician.

Be well...
  #17  
Old 30-12-2010, 14:48
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

Well this isn't really related to ritalin for swim but he is on subutex and is randomly tested to make sure that he is taking his medication and the doc informed him that he is not concerned if he pisses dirty for marijauna.

Swim also has a friend that is also on subutex and ritalin and the doc told him the same thing. Moral of this story 'All doctors are not created equal. Swim suggests swiy finds a new doc and explain to him that you have been prescribed ritalin for ADHD and really need that medication but just because you smoked a little weed they shut you off, and see what he says.

Not all docs are anti-weed. Just find a new doc! There's some compassionate ones out there. Good luck. Just be honest and NEVER lie to them. They respect honesty!
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:07
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Re: SWIM failed a doctor's drug test; can he get his ADHD meds from another doctor?

And on that note . . .
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