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  #1  
Old 22-11-2010, 21:02
psychedelaholic psychedelaholic is offline
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How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

After being made aware of the lack of information about how to smoke the non-gel transdermal fentanyl patches I thought I would make this thread based on what a friend of a friend told me.

Firstly smoking fentanyl should taken very seriously, it's very very easy to overdose on for everyone even opiate tolerant people. Overdosing can easily mean death Smoke too much and SWIY might not wake up again. Secondly it really shouldn't be done by anyone completely inexperienced in opiates as even if it is treated with the respect it needs chances are you will puke. If it is one of the first opiates SWIY tries then start with it sublingually or orally don't jump straight it to smoking it.

Before SWIY starts it is really important that SWIY make sure they know exactly how much fentanyl is in the patch. Even if it is a 50mcg/hr patch that lasts for 72hours it doesn't mean it will have 3.6mg in it. The ones AFOAFhad contained 8.4mg despite being 50mcg patches. The package should say how much they contain. It will depend on strength and company that makes the patch.

The first patch AFOAF got he cut into 80 even pieces. He cut the patch in half, then half, then half then half again to get 16 squares. Do this as accurately as possible using a ruler if necessary Then cut each of those into 5. Its hard to get them perfectly the same size but not too hard to get them close enough. Each square will then contain 100ug. (Adjust this depending on total amount of fentanyl in patch, see below)

AFOAF started by chewing a single square to see how much it effected him. 100ug is equivalent to 10mg of morphine. However bioavailability is 50% sublingually so effects should be akin to 5mg of morphine. AFOAF found 400ug chewed for 10mins to effect him nicely however tolerance soon goes up.

Once he knew how his body reacted to it he started to smoke it:
Make a spoon out of foil, cure the foil then stick a square (AFOAF started back at 100ug) sticky side down in the bowl. Lightly heat the bowl underneath and inhale the white fumes with a paper/foil/whatever tube. Doing this does lead to some fumes from the plastic of the patch being inhaled. AFOAF never experienced any problems from this, no cough or harsh smoke but it is possible to stick the patch to the foil, heat it to transfer the fent to the foil, then peal off the patch and reheat the residue.

If the square is left on the patch it will eventually shrivel up and turn brown once spent. Effects kick in extremely quickly, in under 10seconds much like smoking herion. AFOAF started with 100ug but soon used more. 100ug was fairly weak but its always good to start small and work up. He found 250ug delivered much stronger effects. First time he did a bigger hit it almost floored him. Intense rushes, euphoria, relaxation. orgasmic body high. AFOAF has never IVed herion but he reckons this is probably the closest he could get to it.

For him the effects are much stronger than herion but last much less time. Nausea can be an issue but he found the usual anti-emetics like weed, ginger, cyclizine etc worked pretty well. However when doing a lot there wasn't much he could do to curb the nausea. One particularly heavy session lead to him puking around 20 times. He also finds it very itchy compared to most opiates.

Tolerance soon builds as with most opiates and it is very very morish. AFOAF would do it until it was all gone usually doing 2mg in a session.

The key things are to be really cautious, even if SWIY is opiate tolerant it's not worth risking starting at a bigger dose. Make sure SWIY knows how much fentanyl is in the patch and split it up correctly. Cutting it into 100ug patches might not really be necessary. AFOAF eventually cut his into 250ug squares. Still SWIY can simply put more small squares on the foil to increase the dose so it doesn't really matter.

psychedelaholic added 71 Minutes and 5 Seconds later...

List of total fentanyl content for Durogesic Patches:

12mcg/h - 5.25cm² - 2.1mg (2100mcg) total content
25mcg/h - 10.5cm² - 4.2mg (4200mcg) total content
50mcg/h - 21cm² - 8.4mg (8400mcg) total content
75mcg/h - 31.5cm² - 12.6mg (12600mcg) total content
100mcg/h - 42cm² - 16.8mg (16800mcg) total content

EDIT: The Sandoz 25, 50, 75 and 100mcg/hr patches contain the same amount and there 12.5mcg/hr patch contains the same as the Durogesic 12mcg/hr. Not sure if they are equal in area however. They also do a 37.5mcg/hr patch containing 6.3mg in total.

To give 100ug squares (Durogesic and Sandoz patches):
12 or 12.5mcg/hr - Cut 1/2, the 1/2 then into 5 pieces
25mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 5 pieces
37.5mcg/hr (Sandoz only) - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 4 pieces
50mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 5 pieces
75mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 4 pieces
100mcg/hr - Cut 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then 1/2 then into 5 pieces

For 200ug squares just cut in half 1 less time than stated.

There are other brands of patches which may have different total fentanyl contents or different mcg/hr levels. If you have any data for other brands post it in this thread.

http://www.rxlist.com/duragesic-drug.htm

Post Quality Evaluations:
Excellent starter topic, thi issue needed discussion.
A great contribution to the forum as a resource. Thanks for doing this.
As dangerous as abusing fentanyl is, its amazing we dont have more info on it and how to do it safely, thanks for the contribution

Last edited by psychedelaholic; 07-12-2010 at 18:31. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #2  
Old 07-12-2010, 18:45
psychedelaholic psychedelaholic is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Additional total Fentanyl contents data thanks to Petri6.

Fentanyl Actavis and Ratiopharm:
12mcg/h patch has the total of 2.063mg of fentanyl (Ratiopharm only)
25mcg/h patch has the total of 4.125mg of fentanyl.
50mcg/h patch has the total of 8.25mg of fentanyl.
75mcg/h patch has the total of 12.375mg of fentanyl.
100mcg/h patch has the total of 16.5mg of fentanyl.

The same method as for the Sandoz and Durogesic patches can be applied as the total content is very close with these having a tiny bit less total Fentanyl content.

Matrifen:
12mcg/h patch has the total of 1.38mg of fentanyl.
25mcg/h patch has the total of 2.75mg of fentanyl.
50mcg/h patch has the total of 5.5mg of fentanyl.
75mcg/h patch has the total of 8.25mg of fentanyl.
100mcg/h patch has the total of 11mg of fentanyl.

These have considerabley less Fentanyl content than the other patches, although still much more than is needed for 72hours continual use and more than enough to cause an overdose.

To obtain 100ug pieces:
12mcg/hr cut in 3 then 4 (gives 115ug)
25mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3.
50mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 2.
75mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 3.
100mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 4.

Last edited by psychedelaholic; 08-12-2010 at 08:08.
  #3  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:49
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychedelaholic View Post
12mcg/h patch has the total of 2,063mg of fentanyl (Ratiopharm only)
25mcg/h patch has the total of 4,125mg of fentanyl.
50mcg/h patch has the total of 8,25mg of fentanyl.
75mcg/h patch has the total of 12,375mg of fentanyl.
100mcg/h patch has the total of 16,5mg of fentanyl.
I know in Europe is it traditional to use commas instead of decimal points but in this post, it makes it look like the patches have multiple grams of fent in them. IE the 75mcg/hr patch looks like it has twelve thousand+ millgrams instead of 12+ milligrams. I think it would be better to use decimal points so it would say: "75mcg/h patch has the total of 12.375 mg of fentanyl". That is the standard medical way to measure mg strength, with decimal points when needed.

Hope that makes sense.

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Excellent point to aid understanding for readers.Good call.
  #4  
Old 08-12-2010, 16:17
Petri6 Petri6 is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
I know in Europe is it traditional to use commas instead of decimal points but in this post, it makes it look like the patches have multiple grams of fent in them. IE the 75mcg/hr patch looks like it has twelve thousand+ millgrams instead of 12+ milligrams. I think it would be better to use decimal points so it would say: "75mcg/h patch has the total of 12.375 mg of fentanyl". That is the standard medical way to measure mg strength, with decimal points when needed.

Hope that makes sense.
Yes, that does make sense. However, it's not the standard medical way in non-English speaking countries. But since we are discussing in English, it might be better to change them to match the English standard. SWIM just wanted to point out that it's not a universal medical standard.

SWIM would also like to note that the information was taken from "Fimea", which is the organisation responsible for safety of medicines in Finland. It is unlikely that the patches sold under the same brand names in different countries contain a different amount of fentanyl, but it is still a possibility (just look at Benadryl, even the active ingredient changes from one country to another). That is why, unless SWIY is certain that the patches he has originate from Finland, SWIY should not rely on this information alone to measure a safe dose from SWIY's patch.

Last edited by Petri6; 08-12-2010 at 16:18. Reason: typos
  #5  
Old 08-12-2010, 16:28
RaoulDukeX RaoulDukeX is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

good info thanks for the read, but swim will stick to chewing them over smoking plastic and adhesive. swim noticed a few months ago that the patches had changed from the gel ones that he had smoked with much success to these non-gel ones.

yea swim knows, off topic, but did they stop distributing the gel ones due to abuse rates or overdoses? swim miss his old fent patches....
  #6  
Old 14-12-2010, 21:56
kasbeq kasbeq is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Swim has never tried smoking fent patches and although the OP-s post is very easy to read and understand ,swim has an additional question .

Is the amount of fentanyl proportionally spread throughout the patch ?

What swim means is – if you cut the patch in 100 pieces – could there be a chance that pieces differ in potency,
if patch contains more fent towards the centre and less around its edges, or is fentanyl distributed equally all over the patch.

E.g. if its not evenly distributed swim could smoke one piece from the edge, and think hmm… I can handle a few more, and use three more from centre and overdose.

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Legit concern, I was wondering the same thing first time I was reading through.
  #7  
Old 19-12-2010, 21:20
miws miws is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Swim knows what you are talking about, how the Sand oz brands have more mg then other brands, also for some reason the sand oz brand is swims favorite, for some reason swim has had trouble doing anything with other patches and only worked when used correctly. Swim likes to cut squares and put them on the gums and they have been working good this way.

Swim is going to try it the method you said above just to try it and since it is the same brand swim wants to try even more.

if you can help swim, swim has two questions

1) when you cut the patch, can you wear it still when it is cut or will medication be wasted or somehow leak out, yes non gel ones, swim wants to make sure even though it has been cut, you can still wear, swims knows from past experience from wearing it, even wearing it for 3 days then using it orally on the gums would work very very well..

2) swim understands over time, tolerance goes up, swim can make a 100mcg patch last 5-6 day's and so on as the mcg goes down, ..ect 50mcg, 3-4 day's. Swim is scared to death of having to go through w/d, in theory can this work.

say swim decides to decrease his tolerance and bring it down to almost nothing, you could do it with the squares, on the gums, not smoking it, but decrease the size each day, do about 3 times a day, but decrease the size each day, would that work until you can go from 2 a day, 1 day and when needed to be done with it. Swim wants to go through painless w/d being able to sleep and not toss and turn and sweat, swim can wake up early in the morning with sweating and waking up and so swim will take a small piece, 10 minutes later, pass out, wake up 3-4 hours later with the square still on this gum so in theory swim believes this can work.


Swim thanks you for the nice, detailed message.


miws added 1263 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

Swim wants to know, needs help how to inhale... You wrote up a nice detailed how-to but swim is having trouble still. Swim would like to try again since swim is using the sand oz brand non gel, swim cut a small square and placed on the shiny side and adhered it to the foil. Swim used a toilet paper tube, foil at the bottom and taped and sealed it on, swim also cut the tube to make it shorter, swim also use plastic wrap so swim could seal the top yet be able to see the patch, placed a small hole in the top, placed a tube through it and half way down.

Swim tried and tried, not burning it, yet swim could taste a wicked smell yet inhaled all of it, it browned in time and became smaller but never folded up on its own. should swim just put it on the flat foil, shiny up and place tube slightly above, please explain how the foil should be, swim feels dumb not knowing how to do it.

Last edited by miws; 19-12-2010 at 21:20. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #8  
Old 20-12-2010, 04:49
traind2go traind2go is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

smoking is a waste in my opinion and would fuck up ur plan to "last" several days with what u have
  #9  
Old 20-12-2010, 17:20
psychedelaholic psychedelaholic is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasbeq View Post
Is the amount of fentanyl proportionally spread throughout the patch ?

What swim means is – if you cut the patch in 100 pieces – could there be a chance that pieces differ in potency,
if patch contains more fent towards the centre and less around its edges, or is fentanyl distributed equally all over the patch.
E.g. if its not evenly distributed swim could smoke one piece from the edge, and think hmm… I can handle a few more, and use three more from centre and overdose.
The fentanyl has to be spread evenly legally. They would have tight controls and strict margins of error. As it a patch was really concentrated in only half and not so much in the other and the patch was placed on the skin in a place where the more contrated part was able to absorb more easily then that could lead to overdose. The fentanyl is dissolved into a matrix eliminating any chance of uneven distribution. At most each square would only vary by +/- 10ug.

Quote:
Originally Posted by traind2go View Post
smoking is a waste in my opinion and would fuck up ur plan to "last" several days with what u have
Dude completely depends on the person. For a recreational user smoking might be the best as the strongest high is provided but the patch will get used up quicker. For someone tapering off other opiates then yer smoking would use it too quickly and subllingual or transdermal would be best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miws View Post
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial Narrow]

1) when you cut the patch, can you wear it still when it is cut or will medication be wasted or somehow leak out, yes non gel ones, swim wants to make sure even though it has been cut, you can still wear, swims knows from past experience from wearing it, even wearing it for 3 days then using it orally on the gums would work very very well..

2) swim understands over time, tolerance goes up, swim can make a 100mcg patch last 5-6 day's and so on as the mcg goes down, ..ect 50mcg, 3-4 day's. Swim is scared to death of having to go through w/d, in theory can this work.

say swim decides to decrease his tolerance and bring it down to almost nothing, you could do it with the squares, on the gums, not smoking it, but decrease the size each day, do about 3 times a day, but decrease the size each day, would that work until you can go from 2 a day, 1 day and when needed to be done with it. Swim wants to go through painless w/d being able to sleep and not toss and turn and sweat, swim can wake up early in the morning with sweating and waking up and so swim will take a small piece, 10 minutes later, pass out, wake up 3-4 hours later with the square still on this gum so in theory swim believes this can work.
1) Once the patch is cut the fentanyl can not leak out if they are non gel patches. SWIY could cut the patch in half and wear half whilst using the rest to smoke.
2) Tapering with reducing amounts by sublingual use should work. AFOAF has used for quite a few days in a row then stopped on not gotten WDs though but eveyone is different someone else will probably know more about this than me.

Quote:
Swim wants to know, needs help how to inhale... You wrote up a nice detailed how-to but swim is having trouble still. Swim would like to try again since swim is using the sand oz brand non gel, swim cut a small square and placed on the shiny side and adhered it to the foil. Swim used a toilet paper tube, foil at the bottom and taped and sealed it on, swim also cut the tube to make it shorter, swim also use plastic wrap so swim could seal the top yet be able to see the patch, placed a small hole in the top, placed a tube through it and half way down.

Swim tried and tried, not burning it, yet swim could taste a wicked smell yet inhaled all of it, it browned in time and became smaller but never folded up on its own. should swim just put it on the flat foil, shiny up and place tube slightly above, please explain how the foil should be, swim feels dumb not knowing how to do it.
Don't understand what you mean. AFOAF simply puts it on foil then suck through a thin tube of foil, card or paper close to the patch. Another method that works well is to use a light bulb vape. Allowing the vapours to fill the bulb and then inhaling. This stops any getting lost.

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Useful clarification/insight regarding reliable-dosing concerns and R.O.A..

Last edited by psychedelaholic; 20-12-2010 at 17:39.
  #10  
Old 31-12-2010, 06:02
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Firstly afoaf, and SWIM is "a friend of a friend" and "Someone Who Isn't Me." This is all about the self incrimination rule that we all agreed to follow when we became members of DF...from the rules.

Quote:
Do not incriminate yourself!

It is not allowed to post that you are going to do or have done any illegal activity or that you have used any illegal drugs. Hypothetical stories or questions are allowed.
It is allowed to describe your dreams. It is allowed to describe the actions of your pet or AFOAF (A Friend Of A Friend). Creative writing is welcomed.

Because it is not possible for staff to keeping track of every members location and because most drugs are illegal somewhere, we consider confessing to any drug use to be self incrimination.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules
Now, as far as how far away from the foil your friend needs to hold it is something they'll have to work out for themselves, but usually a half to one inch flame, about an inch beneath the foil should do it. My friend usually just sticks the patch to the foil. Just remember, to begin with the smoke will be almost clear, so have a small break between inhalations. Your friend should be able to gauge how much he's getting, simply from the high that the fentanyl gives him.

Does this help?

Sparkles.
  #11  
Old 31-12-2010, 06:18
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: thanks for the reply..

Oh crap, I guess I should have actually read the rules. Is there anyway to delete a post once it's posted? I just joined this forum like 20 minutes ago and that was my first post and would really prefer not to be banned from here my first 24 hours of joining forum, haha.

Okay, well thank you a lot for actually helping me and not bashing me for being dumb like I see so much of on other forums. I joined this one because people seem to be a lot cooler and more intelligent and useful.

But yeah, I just saw this movie literally 10 minutes ago where this guy was smoking a Transdermal patch and he cut about 1/20th of it and basically stuck it like a sticker right to the tinfoil on the "smooth" side of the tinfoil and then he folded the tinfoil like around the piece of patch to make like a... tunnel? with the piece of patch at the bottom. Then I saw him light it and hold the flame almost directly underneath and it started smoking and like bubbling I guess you could say and the smoke that came off wasn't really clear it was kinda white and cloudy.

He had a straw in his mouth and sucked the smoke right off as it came off. He was telling this girl next to him that it tasted kinda weird and that he didn't really feel too much of anything off it but I guess that earlier in the movie he had orally taken a full 75/mcg patch like 6 hours ago so he said it is probably dumb to claim it didn't work since he was still feeling effects from that. But he doesn't have unlimited patches and he is worried that if he uses this new method with a decent amount of patch this time that it will be a waste of perfectly good Fentanyl which he said later in the movie was his absolute favorite thing in the world!

So what do you think your friend feels about that part? Because the guy in the movie asked that girl next to him if smoking them is worth doing over orally ingesting and she said she didn't know.. there was also a different character in the movie that was telling him this method of putting the patch in a cup of boiling water and brushing his teeth with baking soda and something like that.. but he wasn't sure if that guy knew what he was talking about and if that was a good idea...
  #12  
Old 31-12-2010, 11:24
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Ok, firstly DF is quite possibly the coolest site your friend will ever, ever find. And no, we only tend to bash really dumb people who are told the rules and just refuse to follow them. And yeah, we have the coolest mods too, and I'm sure one will be along soon to delete that post your friend was talking about.

Now, down to business...

Smoking is possibly the second safest method of using a fentanyl patch, after sticking on your skin as its supposed to be used, so please, tell your friend to persevere with this. Now I think he needs to make himself a proper foil tooter, cos he might find that he's losing a lot of the smoke simply cos he's using a straw. Basically rip a piece of foil twice the width that he needs (roughly 8-10 inches) then fold it over so that he has a 4-5 inch in width, and about an 16-18 inches in length, piece of foil. Now tell him to get a biro or pencil and wrap the foil around this creating something very similar to a straw like shape. When he's rolled the foil around the biro/pencil and there's no more foil left, tape it in place, and then very gently remove the biro/pencil from the middle of his foil tube. And there he has a tooter. This will enable him to catch more of the smoke. Here's a post that shows it in detail, I think it'll help...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=43

Now, the fentanyl patch will bubble, this is quite normal. But as it burns he'll see the plastic shrivel up, and those raised bubbles that he can see are the fentanyl. Tell him as he holds the flame beneath the foil to move it further away from the underside of the foil if the patch seems to be burning and making the patch go brown. What he's aiming to do is burn the fentanyl contained in the patch as slowly as possible, without actually burning it. But even if he does burn the patch (which he will eventually) he'll still get the fentanyl, just inhaling a lot of smoke that makes him cough, at the same time.

It might be good to remember that people who smoke any drug never get it right the first time, it does take practice. Again, I'd advise your friend to really stick with this method of extracting the fentanyl from the patch as it is so much more safe than sticking it in his mouth. This way he can gauge how much he's getting and adjust it accordingly. I think he'll also find with the new tooter he'll have made that the extra smoke he'll now be getting (as opposed to losing most of it with a straw) will make all the difference.

Just follow that one rule, always wait between inhalations.

Again, I hope this helps some?

Sparkles.

PS. I'll report that post for deletion...ok?

Post Quality Evaluations:
Extremely helpful and friendly post. Great job with a newbie!
  #13  
Old 31-12-2010, 17:37
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Thanks a lot guys. SWIM doesn't quite understand what it is about a tube of tinfoil that makes you lose less smoke than a straw, like how do you "lose" some of the smoke or whatever because of using a straw?
  #14  
Old 31-12-2010, 18:25
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetarcosDrol View Post
Thanks a lot guys. SWIM doesn't quite understand what it is about a tube of tinfoil that makes you lose less smoke than a straw, like how do you "lose" some of the smoke or whatever because of using a straw?
Basically cos the hole in the straw is too narrow to catch all of the smoke. A tooter (tube) made out of tin foil is wider, and as its usually used for smoking heroin its possible (after smoking a considerable amount) the foil can be unwound and your friend would find enough heroin coating the tinfoil (usually) to stave off WD, and sometimes there's even enough to get your friend high.

Does that explain it more clearly, love?

Sparkles.
  #15  
Old 31-12-2010, 23:46
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Yeah, that does explain it a lot better. Thanks a lot.

I ended up watching the rest of the movie and the main character started smoking his Transdermal 75mcg patch. He started off using a piece about 1 cm by 1 cm and he basically got about 3 little hits off it and kinda felt something... but he was telling his girlfriend that he couldn't really tell if it was mostly placebo or the actual Fentanyl working.

After doing about 5 more little pieces, three of them 1 cm by 1 cm and then next two pieces were 2x2, he really didn't feel much at all, especially since he had done equivalent of at least a 1/4 of patch and would have felt more by eating it. So he got frustrated and put a full 1/4 on tinfoil and smoked the whole thing, he only got about 3 to 4 hits off it, and after all was said and done he told his girlfriend that he didn't feel smoking it was a worthwhile method compared to simply putting the patch in your mouth....

But the characters girlfriend told him that it could simply be that he has such a huge tolerance as he orally does at LEAST a 1/4 a day and a lot of the time he does a 1/2. Plus he does 120mg+ of Morphine, and takes Hydros and Oxys few times a week.

But making his Fentanyl last from 13th to 13th of each month (the date his connect gets scripts) seemed to always be a challenge for him, this is why the character was trying to research different ways to do patches and find a better method. But I noticed that the main character really doesn't seem to think the smoking method is gonna work for him personally as he never liked smoking opiates of any kind compared to sniffing, swallowing, or shooting.

Also, later in the movie the main character was smoking a cigarette and when he spit in the snow he noticed his spit was a little red, so he spit a few more times and realized it was blood, his girlfriend said that it was probably from smoking too much of patches in too short of a time period, but he felt it could have been that he rinsed his mouth right prior with really warm water and baking soda because of a different method he had heard about that claimed doing that before taking patches orally increased absorption etc. but he really was worried that the blood could be coming from his throat cuz of smoking the patch...
  #16  
Old 01-01-2011, 11:04
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Firstly, Sparkles friend has never had an blood coming from their mouth or lungs (or anyone else for that matter) after smoking fentanyl, but please, get it checked out just in case your friend has an infection or something similar. No one has these symptoms without some (possibly minor) med condition/illness. Always best to be safe than sorry, ok?

Secondly, fentanyl patches work best when used as they were meant to be used, stuck onto skin. And you know Sparkles friend never thought they really provided that great a high when compared to other opiates such as heroin and oxycontin. Why take the risk of causing your friend some possible harm when there are much safer (in terms of OD) drugs available?

Sparkles.
  #17  
Old 01-01-2011, 14:36
DanTheFuckinMan DanTheFuckinMan is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychedelaholic View Post
Additional total Fentanyl contents data thanks to Petri6.

Fentanyl Actavis and Ratiopharm:
12mcg/h patch has the total of 2.063mg of fentanyl (Ratiopharm only)
25mcg/h patch has the total of 4.125mg of fentanyl.
50mcg/h patch has the total of 8.25mg of fentanyl.
75mcg/h patch has the total of 12.375mg of fentanyl.
100mcg/h patch has the total of 16.5mg of fentanyl.

The same method as for the Sandoz and Durogesic patches can be applied as the total content is very close with these having a tiny bit less total Fentanyl content.

Matrifen:
12mcg/h patch has the total of 1.38mg of fentanyl.
25mcg/h patch has the total of 2.75mg of fentanyl.
50mcg/h patch has the total of 5.5mg of fentanyl.
75mcg/h patch has the total of 8.25mg of fentanyl.
100mcg/h patch has the total of 11mg of fentanyl.

These have considerabley less Fentanyl content than the other patches, although still much more than is needed for 72hours continual use and more than enough to cause an overdose.

To obtain 100ug pieces:
12mcg/hr cut in 3 then 4 (gives 115ug)
25mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3.
50mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 2.
75mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 3.
100mcg/hr cut in 3 then 3 then 3 then 4.
I figured I would add the Mylan patch info. Hope it helps:


System Components and Structure:
The amount of fentanyl released from each system per hour is proportional to the surface

area (25 mcg/hr per 6.25 cm


2). The composition per unit area of all system sizes is identical.

Dose* Size Fentanyl Content

(mcg/hr) (cm
2) (mg)

12** 3.13 1.28

25 6.25 2.55
50 12.5 5.10
75 18.75 7.65
100 25 10.20
*Nominal delivery rate per hour

**Nominal delivery rate is 12.5 mcg/hr

Last edited by DanTheFuckinMan; 01-01-2011 at 14:44. Reason: Formatted improperly
  #18  
Old 02-01-2011, 02:34
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

First of all my dog realized the blood "coming from his throat" was actually coming from his gums because he brushed them too hard following a method he read online that said brushing his gums rigorously before chewing the patch would increase absorption, although he is happy his throat is fine he feels very.. foolish that he didn't notice the difference between blood coming from his gums and blood coming from his throat, hah..

But in regards to asking why my dog doesn't just use other opiates, everyone has that certain opiate that just "clicks" with them and works better than other types, and Fentanyl just works sooo much better than anything else for him. He has always preferred opiates that are derived from the poppy plant, like Heroin, Morphine and Fentanyl to opiates that are just completely synthetic like Oxycodone and Hydrocodone etc.

My dog has an uncanny tolerance to opiates, like for instance he has to take at least 50-80mg of Hydrocodone and at least 30mg of Oxy to even feel ANYTHING off them.. and even more to get high. And he has put on three 100mcg Fentanyl patches and never felt anything for the 3 full days. But he can chew a 1/4 of one (Approx 12.6mg) and feel a nice small buzz, would take 60-80mg+ of Oxy to get the same feeling, personally.

He's steadily been able to acquire 25 of the 75mcg patches a month but recently can only get 15 so he has been researching online different methods of doing them to get more efficient use, which has led to him this website and inquiring about smoking them, which he has found to not be his cup of tea at all.

He absolutely knows his limits with opiates, especially Fentanyl (which is ridiculous to say the least, I won't even mention how much Fentanyl he has done and can handle as people usually think he is lying). He has, unfortunately, been using opiates for over 5 years and has never had an OD scare or anything like that, so he knows what he can handle and stuff.

SetarcosDrol added 10 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

Okay, quick note, before I get assaulted with incorrect data. I said my dog can chew a 1/4 patch (approx 12.6mg) but that is the mg for the WHOLE patch, I meant approx 4.2g, haha. Sorry.

And I know that some people will read me saying "my dog needs at least 30mg of Oxy..etc" and be like "My dog can take 100mg blah blah" I mean that my dog will need at LEAST that to even notice them, really. But he will do 100mg to god only knows how many mg to actually get high. Just correcting some things quick because my experience with other message boards at least is that people love to correct users who post things wrong etc haha.

Last edited by SetarcosDrol; 02-01-2011 at 02:34. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #19  
Old 02-01-2011, 03:18
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SetarcosDrol View Post
He has always preferred opiates that are derived from the poppy plant, like Heroin, Morphine and Fentanyl to opiates that are just completely synthetic like Oxycodone and Hydrocodone etc.
Just for the record, fentanyl is a synthetic opioid - man made and not related to the true opiates derived from poppies ie, morphine and codeine. Hydrocodone is actually a semi-synthetic opioid, "built" upon opiates and therefore having a similar chemical structure.
Sorry to be the one who jumps in and corrects
  #20  
Old 02-01-2011, 04:50
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Oh, you are definitely positive? Because I remember reading a couple places that were saying that Morphine and Fentanyl were derived from poppy family while Hydro and Oxy were completely synthetic. But my dog never liked Codeine at all, even when he took very high doses, which is weird because if that is derived from poppies then I would have thought he would have liked it. But then again, if Fentanyl actually isn't derived from poppies at all then maybe there really isn't a specific preference of opiates he prefers and maybe it is something completely different that makes him like Fentanyl the most and then Heroin and then Morphine in that order. But then again, that does make sense about the Hydro because if given a choice, he would prefer a Hydro high to an Oxy high, if in similar amounts, meaning since Oxy is stronger than Hydro that if he could have 100mg of a Hydro high, to a 60mg (or whatever would be about the correct conversion of strength) Oxy high, he would prefer the Hydro. So maybe he DOES prefer poppies to synthetics but just likes Fentanyl the best because it is the strongest?
  #21  
Old 02-01-2011, 15:46
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Even more food-for-thought:

Hydrocodone & Oxycodone are BOTH semi-synthetic opioids! *giggle* Hydro is made from codeine & thebaine, whereas oxy is made from just thebaine (thebaine, for those who don't know, is a naturally occurring alkaloid from the opium poppy (Papaver Somniferum), but it's not a "fun" one & actually has a bit of stimulating qualities to it; this is the basis of my theory that people find oxy more "uplifting" or "stimulating" than hydro or morphine itself.).

Fentanyl, as catseye mentioned, is completely synthetic (made up from stuff not related to the opium poppy at all); methadone is also completely synthetic.

We now conclude your lesson today, brought to you by kailey_elise & catseye.

Also want to mention, tolerance is a tricky thing, and not everything is cross-tolerant, even though they are all opioids. I forget what the "official" term for this phenomenon is, but it's well known that someone can take Xmg of their Drug of Choice everyday in the same place, but then they go to a different place one day, take the same amount of their DoC as usual and overdose. Something about your body habituating to the spot, and it "gets ready" for the drug; when taking the drug in a different spot, your body doesn't have those "cues" to go by, thus isn't "ready" for the dose, and goes over. Weird shit, eh? Just one of the many ways a tolerant person can overdose; one is NEVER "safe from overdose" unless they aren't doing drugs, simple as that. What if there was a "hot spot" in a patch one day, or doG-forbid, the company fucked up and put the amount for a 100mcg patch on a 25mcg patch (crazy shit happens); nothing's foolproof. Just sayin'.

It would be AWESOME if you lived near a city that is in the Narcan Pilot Program; various needle exchanges are handing out nasal Narcan just in case someone ODs, so they can be brought back (it's supposed to be "bring them back before the ambulance comes, but...eh, doesn't always work that way in practice, I'm told. ); sometimes you can get a doctor who prescribes you opioids to prescribe you a kit, too. http://www.harmreduction.org lists many Needle Exchange/Syringe Access Programs in the USA, Canada & Mexico; one could call their local one to see what they may offer.

Sorry, this is all just "general good advice" for opioid users/misusers/abusers/whatever. Sorry to hear your buddy's trials with various RoA (Routes of Administration) has been basically a bust. Did he still have trouble even when attempting smoking from a sober state? Part of what sucks is that there's a learning curve to smoking, and people don't always have access to the extra supplies needed that might get fucked up during the learning process.

If willing to go VERY VERY slowly & titrate up, your buddy could perhaps follow the instructions for prepping a patch for IV use, but instead plug it (stick it up the ass); this is a VERY effective method, practically right up there with IV use - of course, it comes with many of the same risks as IV use as well, which needs to be kept in mind. They could also try prepping for IV use, but then letting all the liquid evaporate & scraping up the powder, then perhaps smoking (vaporising, really) the powder a little at a time, or maybe snorting it? Naturally, many of these methods could have the effect of raising one's tolerance to the drug, so any need to be considered with much caution.

Has buddy looked into "potentiation methods" at all? Taking Tagament prior to use, or white grapefruit juice (frozen concentrate is best), or DXM (dextromethorphan - the active ingredient in OTC cough medicine)? Co-administration of 1st generation anti-histamines (if you're from the US: diphenhydramine (Benedryl) is OTC, promethazine (Phenergan) & hydroxyzine (Vistaril) are easily available @ the doctor as non-habit-forming sleep aids) are supposed to work well with opioids (bonus: they're helpful by themselves if one happens to run out of opioids & is in withdrawal); carisoprodol (Soma) is a muscle relaxant well-known to synergize EXTREMELY well with opioids (often TOO well - stick to just one Soma, MAYBE two, if mixing w/opioids!!!); tho it seems to work a bit better with opioids that are morphine based (natural or semi-synthetic), vs say, Fentanyl or methadone (it still works, though).

Perhaps check out the Saving Money Through Potentiation of Opiates thread would garner some tips in this area, making the smaller amount your buddy has last longer, because he could use less of it or use the same amount & get a greater effect.

All the best, and encourage your friend to be as safe as humanly possible!

~Kailey
  #22  
Old 02-01-2011, 19:26
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Thanks for the lessons tho, I have apparently been misinformed on basically everything, haha. I was always told that Oxy and Hydro were completely synthetic opiates while Fentanyl was a poppy derived opiate! Hah, so thanks for telling me, I like to know as much as possible about what I'm doing.

Yeah, my dog has NEVER liked smoking any opiate compared to basically any other method, so he is not going to even bother trying to perfect the smoking of Fentanyl. But, he is DEFINITELY interested in extracting the Fentanyl from his patches even if to simply just ingest the Fentanyl after. But all the methods for extraction he has read all seem to be for every form of Fentanyl patches EXCEPT for the Transdermal ones, which is the kind he gets. So if you could send him a link to a method for extracting Fentanyl from transdermal patches he would sincerely appreciate it.

As far as taking DXM (Dextromethorphan HBr) before using Fentanyl, that is really not an option for my dog as he was addicted to DXM for about 3 years. Taking 300mg to as high as 700mg several times a week. He does not need any remarks on how bad that is for him blah blah etc. as he has read the entire Michael White FAQ on Third-Plateau website and knows pretty much everything there is to know about that drug. He used to use the agent lemon extraction method for DXM and yes, when he would take even 100mg before using ANY opiate he would feel extremely increased effects, but does not feel comfortable taking even 15mg as he is worried it will start his addiction all over again.

But most of the other drugs mentioned to increase potency of Fentanyl, such as Diphenhydramine and Soma especially, all make my dog really tired and he feels would ruin his high because all opiates are so great to him because they give him incredible amounts of energy. I know a lot of people claim opiates make them tired or lackadaisical but my dog has always had opiates work even better than uppers at giving him energy.

My dog does not know as much about opiates, and all drugs for that matter besides DXM, as much as he should seeing as how he has been a drug addict most of his adult life and has more experience USING basically any drug from DXM to MDMA to Heroin to PCP than almost anyone he has met his entire life. Please note he is not "proud" of this fact, in fact he is ashamed to be honest, so he does not require any responses cutting down his lifestyle or pointing out that this is nothing to "brag" about. He is not bragging simply stating a fact. His point in mentioning this is that he does not mind any responses correcting any information he thought to be true or people pointing out facts they think he might not know.

He has always been a relatively "safe" drug user, in the way that he would never use a needle more than two times at the most, and he would always clean his arm off with rubbing alcohol, stuff like that. Most drug addicts who used as much as he did wouldn't care enough to bother with stuff like that. He is definitely still a drug addict, as he believes in the theory that there is no "cure" for drug addiction and even a drug addict who hasn't used for 10 years is still "in recovery" and living day by day. He has never ODed on a drug or even had a scare, so basically he is mentioning this so if someone decides to share with him an extraction method for Fentanyl that they are not releasing the information to some ignorant drug addict who is gonna go rushing through the process skipping steps and just slamming a stupid amount into his arm etc. He is very careful with what he does, and he is not even going to IV the Fentanyl into his vein regardless. But he may do what kailey_elise was suggesting or just muscle pop the Fentanyl if that would be an efficient method.

So, if someone could post a correct method for extracting from Transdermal patches or simply post a link, that would be greatly appreciated. My dog really trusts the people on this message board a lot more than the others he has visited as they apparently don't even know what opiates are synthetic or not, so he would prefer to follow a method given here MUCH more than a method found on some random site, thanks for all the responses and help.
  #23  
Old 02-01-2011, 20:18
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

I'm glad that your friend has found DF so helpful - the quality of advice and information to be found is second to none in catty's opinion

OK, so your dog wants to extract the fentanyl from the patches and ingest it? It is possible to extract, and if you look HERE there is a downloadable TEK on the method. It goes without saying really that this is NOT advised, and is very dangerous.
As your dog surely knows, fentanyl is one potent substance with a very narrow therapeutic/toxic window and the risks are so much higher when ingesting/snorting/IV'ing. This is because the fentanyl dosage cannot be safely estimated once it is outside of the tightly controlled realms of the transdermal patch.

Silly question maybe, has your dog used the patches on their skin?
See, fentanyl truly is best administered transdermally (through the skin). Its overall bio-availability through either transmucosal or oral routes is only about 50% because it has to go through first-pass metabolism in the liver/intestines before it is absorbed and enters into the circulation.
So ingesting the extracted fent or snorting it is not only super dangerous, but it could be seen as a bit of a waste too, the way catty understands it
(if that's incorrect, please let me know DF'ers - I'm working on the wiki for fent misuse, and thats the info I've found in various articles...).

So...there is the TEK for your dog, but again as a harm minimisation forum, I really just want to emphasise the dangers in using this drug in any other way than its prescribed method!! Be extra super safe, hon
  #24  
Old 02-01-2011, 20:56
SetarcosDrol SetarcosDrol is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Yeah, I found that article earlier but I didn't think it would work for transdermal as it says "Non-Gel Mylan" and I never really was sure what exactly "Mylan" meant, but my dog actually has a shot glass filled with about 4 full patches worth of already chewed Fentanyl patches soaking in 91% ISO as per the guides instructions. He has about 2 hours left of letting it soak while stirring occasionally according to the guide. He is really, really hesitant about using fresh patches with this idea as he is very scared that it won't work or it will be a waste

So after he is done with the procedure using his spent patches if he is in anyway happy with the results he might try it with a 1/4 of a fresh one to see how that goes. Thanks for not going overboard with the warnings, haha. As my dog is ABSOLUTELY aware of all the risks involved haha.

Yes, my dog has actually put on three of the 100mcg/hr patches at one time and waited the full 3 days and never really felt anything other than a little buzz that he is quite convinced was a placebo buzz. Idk if my dog was just so convinced they wouldn't work that way that he like "willed" away the high being upset they weren't working, or what. But he has never worn them since and is in no position to test out wearing them again as he is already running low all the time right now. He also feels he is not going to get anywhere near the same level of a high as he gets from chewing them..

He is following the "TEK" method exactly as written, so we will see how he likes the results in 3 or 4 hours. What does "TEK" mean anyways?
  #25  
Old 02-01-2011, 22:07
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: How to smoke fentanyl patches safely (non gel type)

Mylan is a brand name, or better put, a pharmaceutical manufacturing company. So it's a patch that has no gel reservoir made by the Mylan company. The directions should work for any patch that doesn't contain a gel reservoir (the ones that look like just a sticker).

Oh, and virtually any directions out there will be for transdermal patches; there simply isn't really any other way to obtain Fentanyl. There are Actiq brand Fentanyl lollipops, but they are hard to come by, and on VERY rare occasions one might come across vials of Fentanyl made for IM/IV administration (stolen from a hospital or oral surgeon's office, perhaps), but you'd know it if ya had it! Otherwise, patches are the name of the game, and Fentanyl patches only come in the transdermal variety.

~Kailey

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