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  #1  
Old 05-11-2010, 02:27
SomeGuyIKnow SomeGuyIKnow is offline
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Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

A couple of friends asked me to find out about some unusual side effects they have from Poppy Pod Tea.

One friend finds that she sometimes gets migraines and sickness the day after consumption. Not all the time, but frequently enough that she's discontinued her use. Each time it happened the tea consumed was from a large batch that was consumed by several other people who had no such reaction. She has no problems with codeine, dihydrocodeine or tramadol, so my best guess on the subject is a bad reaction to one of the minor alkaloids. It would be useful to get the opinion of others on the subject.

Another friend finds that after consuming poppy pod tea he gets heartburn and hiccups when he smokes tobacco. While not a major problem, he finds it to be very irritating and wonders if anyone has any thoughts on the subject.
  #2  
Old 11-11-2010, 21:37
MindAsh MindAsh is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

my friend who i consult about such things doesn't have any info regarding the first question regarding migraines but he did mention that whenever he does partake of opiates that whenever he smokes a cigg he ends up feeling awful until he finally projectile vomits, his only guess is that maybe the very slight amount of MAOI's in tobacco might have an effect on potentiating the opiates or they just dont mix period, also poppy tea is extremely acidic on its own so that could be partly the reason since cigg's have been shown to cause excessive gastric juices to be released in the stomach as well, basically a double whammy of heartburn causing substances which might explain the hiccups as well
  #3  
Old 11-11-2010, 22:37
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindAsh View Post
my friend who i consult about such things doesn't have any info regarding the first question regarding migraines but he did mention that whenever he does partake of opiates that whenever he smokes a cigg he ends up feeling awful until he finally projectile vomits, his only guess is that maybe the very slight amount of MAOI's in tobacco might have an effect on potentiating the opiates or they just dont mix period, also poppy tea is extremely acidic on its own so that could be partly the reason since cigg's have been shown to cause excessive gastric juices to be released in the stomach as well, basically a double whammy of heartburn causing substances which might explain the hiccups as well
I have to assume your friend isn't a regular smoker and in combination with the PPT, that's what's making him puke. My friend is a regular smoker and has never had a problem with smoking on PPT except for the occasional worsening of nausea caused by the PPT. It's rare though and my friend tolerate opiates well.

Also, where do you get your assumption that PPT is "extremely acidic"? The alkaloids in there are all in their base form (meaning no Hcl or other acidic salts) and the only way it becomes acidic is if you add lemon juice/citric, even then, it is not "extremely" acidic by any stretch of the imagination. Unless of course someone were to put an insane amount of acid into the tea but I don't know why they would. PPT is only as acidic as the water you make it in. It's also debateable that PPT even needs an acid added to make it more effective. My friend has had it both with and without lemon juice and noticed no difference in effects though he prefers it with the LJ for taste reasons.

As for the migraines, my friend has a friend who has gotten them several times. It was usually after a particular strong batch or amount consumed. This friend has actually been so dibilitated by these headaches, they weren't able to get out of bed for several days. This person does get occasional migraines normally but these really bad ones, as of late, have all occured hours after/the next day after consuming PPT so one can only assume there is a correlation.

Edit- Mindash, I wasn't trying to personaly criticize you, I just don't think tobacco has any kind of toxic effect or w/e when combined with PPT. I think someone's natural intolerance to tobacco will make the nausea much much worse when consumed with opiates (which are widely known to cause nausea in even tolerant idividuals). Also your statement about PPT being acidic is just factually innacturate.

I've had a few issues as of late of people being offended by my critism of their posts and just want to make sure I'm not coming across as being mean or anything. I think the great thing about this site is that people can argue opinions and dispute issues and correct misinformation but sometimes it doesn't come across as polite and seems confrontational. I hope you udnerstand.

Last edited by Moving Pictures; 11-11-2010 at 22:43. Reason: edit
  #4  
Old 12-11-2010, 00:33
KNiFe KNiFe is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Opioids are known to cause rebound headaches / migraines. This is just one of the reasons that they aren't commonly used for pain associated with chronic headaches, migraines, tension headaches, cluster headaches, etc. However, some headache sufferers claim that the rebound headaches from narcotic pain relievers are easily remedied with an NSAID such as ibuprofen or naproxen sodium.

Headaches are also a result of dehydration, even mild dehydration. If your hypothetical friend is experiencing stomach problems also, she might not be getting proper intake of food / liquids. Coupled with the rebound headache effect of opiods, this could make for one nasty headache.
  #5  
Old 14-11-2010, 13:07
Lady Codone Lady Codone is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Pod tea seems to cause some dehydration, so tell your friend to drink more water when dosing. Headaches are a prime symptom of dehydration, btw. If the next-day sickness is from histamine stimulation, taking a non-sedating antihistamine like loratadine with his/her dose could eliminate that. Pods seem to be worse about causing histamine-related issues like nausea, itching, etc. than pills...at least for SWIM. May be much worse for someone actually allergic to the plants or pollen.

Ginger tea and OTC antacids are great for heartburn/indigestion, as is a pinch of baking soda. Smoking anything can trigger indigestion since it involves sucking in large amounts of air, so consider cutting back or waiting until the pod high is over.
  #6  
Old 14-11-2010, 14:06
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

I have heard of opiate users, some who are regular smokers, smoking cigarettes & that their high/nod is increased when doing so. Perhaps the nausea is from feeling TOO high when smoking on the PPT?

I have seen Heroin users who seemed alert & talkative start smoking a cigarette & immediately start "nodding out". I'm not exactly certain by what mechanism nicotine/tobacco increases an opiate high, but it certainly seems to! Some of the Heroin users I've seen this happen to were newer users, and they were more likely to actually vomit at this time; more experienced users, while still seemingly having their high increased, didn't usually vomit.

I don't see why the same wouldn't occur with Poppy Pod Tea, or Opium. Perhaps someone who's prone to this issue might just refrain from smoking cigarettes while in the "active" stage of the high? There are medications available (many over-the-counter) to counteract nausea, but they often have the side effect of increasing the high & other side effects of the opiate, so that's not exactly recommended unless one takes that into consideration in advance & plans accordingly (take the medications, and take less of the opiate). Sometimes it's just a histamine reaction that causes the nausea, as stated by those before me in this thread; if this is a consistent problem, the same caveats would apply - an antihistamine could be taken in advance of the opiate to prevent some of the histamine response (itching, some of the nausea, etc), but as it can increase the high/side effects of the high (like respiratory depression - your breathing!) to a dangerous point, one has to decrease the amount of opiate taken if they are to be taken at the same time.

In addition, sometimes (especially early on in one's "opiate using career" ) one gets a large histamine response or nausea or next day headaches & such (an opiate hangover, really), because they are, in fact, taking too much of the opiate! In such a case, it would be wise to try taking a bit less & see if one gets the response one is seeking without all the negative side effects - and heck, they'll save some $$ too! In fact, if one is getting headaches & nausea & aches the day after consuming opiates, overuse should definitely be considered, and slightly (to more than slightly) smaller doses trialled if one plans to continue, to see if it helps. Otherwise, treat as any other hangover (except for the "Hair of the Dog" stuff - that's a method just BEGGING for trouble!).

~Kailey
  #7  
Old 21-11-2010, 01:44
SomeGuyIKnow SomeGuyIKnow is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MindAsh View Post
he did mention that whenever he does partake of opiates that whenever he smokes a cigg he ends up feeling awful until he finally projectile vomits, his only guess is that maybe the very slight amount of MAOI's in tobacco might have an effect on potentiating the opiates or they just dont mix period
My friend is a regular smoker and tells me that the ciggys never make him feel nauseous unless he's drunk too much PPT too quickly (2-3 pints of it in the space of an hour will leave him bloated and feeling ill from the amount of fluid in his gut). He finds that they give a huge boost to the high for a good 10-20 minutes. He also tells me that if he's been stupid enough to let himself get into a mild WD then ciggys do make him feel like absolute shit for around the same amount of time but he still smokes them, just far less of them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingPictures
As for the migraines, my friend has a friend who has gotten them several times. It was usually after a particular strong batch or amount consumed. This friend has actually been so dibilitated by these headaches, they weren't able to get out of bed for several days. This person does get occasional migraines normally but these really bad ones, as of late, have all occured hours after/the next day after consuming PPT so one can only assume there is a correlation.
Yep, that sounds exactly the same, these have knocked my friend on her arse for a couple of days, hence why she's reluctant to try any more. It could be a case of dosing too high, she tells me that 150mg tramadol makes her feel "nice", so I'd have to assume a relatively low tolerance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNiFe
Opioids are known to cause rebound headaches / migraines. This is just one of the reasons that they aren't commonly used for pain associated with chronic headaches, migraines, tension headaches, cluster headaches, etc. However, some headache sufferers claim that the rebound headaches from narcotic pain relievers are easily remedied with an NSAID such as ibuprofen or naproxen sodium.

Headaches are also a result of dehydration, even mild dehydration. If your hypothetical friend is experiencing stomach problems also, she might not be getting proper intake of food / liquids. Coupled with the rebound headache effect of opiods, this could make for one nasty headache.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Codone
Pod tea seems to cause some dehydration, so tell your friend to drink more water when dosing. Headaches are a prime symptom of dehydration, btw. If the next-day sickness is from histamine stimulation, taking a non-sedating antihistamine like loratadine with his/her dose could eliminate that. Pods seem to be worse about causing histamine-related issues like nausea, itching, etc. than pills...at least for SWIM. May be much worse for someone actually allergic to the plants or pollen
Thanks, that's good info that I can pass on to her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Codone
Ginger tea and OTC antacids are great for heartburn/indigestion, as is a pinch of baking soda. Smoking anything can trigger indigestion since it involves sucking in large amounts of air, so consider cutting back or waiting until the pod high is over.
My friend already munches Rennies like candy, but it only helps for a short while. He doesn't normally need anything stronger and rarely suffers from indigestion outside of PPT usage. Unfortunately the taste of ginger makes my friend sneeze! My friend loves to smoke while on PPT, as it boosts his high a lot.
  #8  
Old 21-11-2010, 16:11
hayran_abdal hayran_abdal is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Poppy pod tea is real, but you must have 3-4 poppy pods.


Sorry for my poor english.
  #9  
Old 21-11-2010, 17:37
davestate Gold member davestate is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyIKnow View Post
My friend is a regular smoker and tells me that the ciggys never make him feel nauseous unless he's drunk too much PPT too quickly (2-3 pints of it in the space of an hour will leave him bloated and feeling ill from the amount of fluid in his gut). He finds that they give a huge boost to the high for a good 10-20 minutes. He also tells me that if he's been stupid enough to let himself get into a mild WD then ciggys do make him feel like absolute shit for around the same amount of time but he still smokes them, just far less of them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kailey_elise View Post
I have heard of opiate users, some who are regular smokers, smoking cigarettes & that their high/nod is increased when doing so. Perhaps the nausea is from feeling TOO high when smoking on the PPT?

I have seen Heroin users who seemed alert & talkative start smoking a cigarette & immediately start "nodding out". I'm not exactly certain by what mechanism nicotine/tobacco increases an opiate high, but it certainly seems to! Some of the Heroin users I've seen this happen to were newer users, and they were more likely to actually vomit at this time; more experienced users, while still seemingly having their high increased, didn't usually vomit.
My rat did a lot of digging on the subject of smoking and opiates, see my post here:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...562#post818562

The whole thread is a wealth of info on the subject in fact
  #10  
Old 22-11-2010, 09:21
MindAsh MindAsh is offline
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Re: Unusual side effects of Poppy Pod Tea?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
I have to assume your friend isn't a regular smoker and in combination with the PPT, that's what's making him puke. My friend is a regular smoker and has never had a problem with smoking on PPT except for the occasional worsening of nausea caused by the PPT. It's rare though and my friend tolerate opiates well.

Also, where do you get your assumption that PPT is "extremely acidic"? The alkaloids in there are all in their base form (meaning no Hcl or other acidic salts) and the only way it becomes acidic is if you add lemon juice/citric, even then, it is not "extremely" acidic by any stretch of the imagination. Unless of course someone were to put an insane amount of acid into the tea but I don't know why they would. PPT is only as acidic as the water you make it in. It's also debateable that PPT even needs an acid added to make it more effective. My friend has had it both with and without lemon juice and noticed no difference in effects though he prefers it with the LJ for taste reasons.

As for the migraines, my friend has a friend who has gotten them several times. It was usually after a particular strong batch or amount consumed. This friend has actually been so dibilitated by these headaches, they weren't able to get out of bed for several days. This person does get occasional migraines normally but these really bad ones, as of late, have all occured hours after/the next day after consuming PPT so one can only assume there is a correlation.

Edit- Mindash, I wasn't trying to personaly criticize you, I just don't think tobacco has any kind of toxic effect or w/e when combined with PPT. I think someone's natural intolerance to tobacco will make the nausea much much worse when consumed with opiates (which are widely known to cause nausea in even tolerant idividuals). Also your statement about PPT being acidic is just factually innacturate.

I've had a few issues as of late of people being offended by my critism of their posts and just want to make sure I'm not coming across as being mean or anything. I think the great thing about this site is that people can argue opinions and dispute issues and correct misinformation but sometimes it doesn't come across as polite and seems confrontational. I hope you udnerstand.

MovingPictures, its no prob man i dont take offense to anything you said ) but heres my reply..

my friend is both an avid smoker of 14 years as well as a user of opiates on and off for the past 11 years the last 4 being relatively hard core and the past year almost strictly poppy tea on a daily basis but still finds that when heavily opiated smoking a cigg both increases their buzz as well as makes them puke but also it's hit and miss, recently they have been on an oxycodone bender and altho ciggs have made them quesy during it they've only pukeed due to the ciggs a very small ammount of times aside from today where they puked their brains out but are pretty sure it was due to a tylenol overload. also in another opiate oriented forum they took a poll as to how many members have this problem and it was well over 3/4 of those who replied some newbies to opi's others long time users one mentioend that maybe it was related to the area in the brian responsible for puking and that maybe the level of toxins in the body were raised just enough to set this area off and the bodies natural purging center went into effect etc etc.

Onto the statement i made regarding PPT and acidity, to the best of my knowledge the darkness of PPT is caused by tannin/tannic acid and i assumed this would be a reason for PPT being acidic as well i had also read in a papaver specific forum in a few different thread that PPT was itself acidic and that was partly the reason why things like lemon juice were not really needed for making PPT aside from reasons related to flavor so i may be mislead in thinking such and considering the bitterness and lack of any sour flavor it would make sense that it is a far more basified liquid instead of acidic but im not an organic chemist so this is just a guess, wouldn't a strong base also possibly cause heartburn due to its strength? im pretty sure lye is a base but it'll still burn the hell out of your skin if an acid such as vinegar isnt applied very very quickly to the affected area?

i do in fact appreciate criticism as long as its constructive and not just a strait forward nut busting so it's all cool man, now care to add anything else or help to get the facts strait on this? i would like to know some of these things for sure and the facts showing such, but thank you again for the edit clarifying your intent it's greatly appreciated and i respect you for that )

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