Health - Butalbital abuse potential

[pharmapsyche]

Someone who isn't me recently aquired 9 generic Fioricet tablets. Each tab contains butalbital 50mg, acetaminophen 325mg, and a small amount of caffeine. SWIM has had two previous encounters with Fioricet; once with 4 tablets (200mg butalbital) and another with a similar amount. The second time was strange because SWIM thought he was taking hydrocodone but after looking up the imprint realized it was fioricet.

The first experience, SWIM recalls, was a unique feeling of sedation and relaxation, different from the benzodiazepines or alcohol. It wasn't directly euphoric, more like a feeling of serenity and tranquility. It was interesting.

I know that butalbital has abuse potential and can lead to dependency and tolerance. My question is, does anyone have past experience with butalbital, and if so, what was your take on it?

[Jatelka]

SWIM would be very careful here: She has no experience of butabital (which is a barbiturate) but the acetaminophen (paracetamol) in your compound preparation has the potential to cause serious liver damage (ie: failure and death). Max recommended dose for aminocetaphen is 4g daily, much less if you drink alcohol to excess, or are any other drugs which cause liver enzyme induction. SWIM would no more take even that recommended maximum dose daily than she would chew off her own arm.

Sorry SWIM hasn't answered your question, but she has seen people seriously damaged through recreational use of compound preparations containing aminocetaphen.

[pharmapsyche]

I appreciate the info, it's always good to be reminded of the danger that acetaminophen carries. I have had only one APAP-induced nightmare, and lemme tell you I'll never cross that line again. I puked my guts out for 4 hours and spent the whole time thinking "this is it, I'm done for". I'll be sure to keep my intake below toxic levels!

[sidewalkpharmacist]

would a cwe be possable? kinda late to ask this but for knowledges sake

[INodHardOhYeah]

* bad post by SWIM, sorry *

Reputation Comments on this post:

Wrong and dangerous misinformation! Please do some homework!

[Nagognog2]

The more we find out about acetaminophen - the worse it looks to your liver and kidneys. Last Words: Don't use it unless it's an emergency. If you explain your concern to a doctor, he/she will likely prescribe the substance minus the acetaminphen. Or find a better doctor.

[pharmapsyche]

I had a toxic reaction with about 5 grams of acetaminophen, but I was alright after spending the night puking and feeling dizzy. Could 5 grams damage your liver? Or do you really have to exceed doses of 8 grams or so before that happens?

[Aopocetx]

I've used butalbital a few times (each time 200mg, at 130 pounds). I enjoy it a lot. I've also heard hydroxyzine potentiates barbiturates and it just so happens I have some. How much stronger will butalbital be with how much hydroxyzine?

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by INodHardOhYeah

No jatleka 4g of acetaminophen is not going to pose a threat to your liver, when you get up into the range of 11g is when you really need to worry.
Acetaminophen is not as bas as everyone makes it out to be. When you put it into perspective Binge drinking, a common practice for drug users, is far more damaging than daily tylenol use.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! Where are you getting your information from? Wherever it is it's just, well, wrong! If your liver and kidneys are already working hard or have taken a battering recently (and even if they haven't), any amount of paracetamol above 4g (sometimes less) will potentially have a toxic effect. although this will vary greatly from individual to individual. It's nasty stuff, useful for mild headaches, bringing down fevers, and killing yourself in a slow, painful and drawn out manner. Do not exceed the maximum stated dose unless you want to be a statistic or considered for a Darwin Award.


http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic7.htm

http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/9/609

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for setting that straight

[pharmapsyche]

4 grams of APAP will probably have a toxic effect but it won't be anything more then intense sweating and loads of vomiting. Try to avoid anything ABOVE 4 grams. I'd consider 4 grams the absolute maximum to ingest.

[justprescribed]

I was just prescribed butalbital/apap/caffeine. i have a family member who is in recovery for using drugs but still has temptation. can he abuse this medication. if so how. Should I hide it?

[Panthers007]

Butalbital is a barbituate. Even removing the acetaminophen (paracetamol) won't help the fact that butalbital is highly addictive. And the addiction will lead to death unless medical help is sought. The drug causes tolerance - requiring ever increasing doses. While the tolerance increases, the lethal dose does not keep pace. So eventually you have to take a fatal overdose to avoid going into withdrawl. And the withdrawl can be fatal as well - unless handled by a doctor in the hospital.

Sound like fun? Butalbital is the last of the barbituates that is currently being prescribed with any frequency. They used to be all over the place. Wonder why they have all but (butalbital) disappeared?

[justprescribed]

no that doesn't sound like fun...i don't know what else to do it was prescribed to me for my migraines. i have tried about everything else out there. so my roommate who is in recovery can abuse it....that sucks....guess i will be hiding this medication...if not asking my doctor for something else... thanks for the info.

[Spare Chaynge]

If swim took all of them this would be 2925mg of apap. That would not be fun.. Not recommended. Could be toxic in some.. apap toxicity seems to be individual, some would die at this amount others would not..if you died or didnt massive liver damage would probably be a result..... but maybe swim could take one. Swim is not sure on the Barb in this situation but every medical professional swims ever talked to has just flat out told swim find a different drug the potential side effects from barb abuse are just to much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butalbital

apap toxcity
"Evidence of liver toxicity may develop in one to four days, although, in severe cases, it may be evident in 12 hours." wiki

that is some scary shit

Butalbital should not be mixed with alcohol due to increased risk of intoxication, increased respiratory depression, and increased liver toxicity when it is a butalbital combination including paracetamol.

a wise suggestion.