TEK - A tonic (coca) hot wine recipe

[Benga]

This popped up in another thread, though it might be better off here.

Here's a lovely recipe, to which you can add whatever leaves you have, let's say, hum, laurel leaves, hum...

Benga's Tonic Hot Wine

take one liter of red bordeaux wine
dump in between 50 g or 150g of say laurel leaves
add 3 brown sugar cubes
3 sticks of cinnamon
one tablespoonful of grated ginger
a few cardamom pods
4 star anis (badiane)
4 cloves
1 teaspoon grated nutmeg
some fenel, fenugrec
optional 1 or 2 betelnut (areca catechu) dried slices, one tablespoon c. sour for those in the know.

a dash of liqueur, say cointreau or cognac, or even a little rum or whiskey

at the end of preparation (after first heating) some lemon juice ( or lemon peels) and orange juice (or peel) in moderation, this stuff is strong tasting.

let this sit for as long as you can, 24 hours is great but a couple of hours will also do.

cover, then heat very slowly, turn off heat just before it comes to a boil.
let it cool, and repeat process, just reaching boiling point and turning off heat, add half a glass of wine, and let sit.

the key is not to let it boil, or at least not more than 30 seconds, as boiling degrades.

Strain and drink your delicious tonic hot wine.

laurel of course is just one option among many possibilities.

this drink is perfect for long winter evenings.b

[PitfromGreece]

Hi Benga,

I was reading about how the addition of alcohol can increase the potency of a coca beverage, but also its toxicity. I believe cocaine toxicity is really an issue when you use it regularly. Reading your posts I see that you are quite knowledgeable in the use of the coca leaves, from your research do you think that drinking coca wine 1-2 times a week (while having sex or going out) can be an issue, giving you health problems?

[Benga]

Originally Posted by PitfromGreece

Hi Benga,

I was reading about how the addition of alcohol can increase the potency of a coca beverage, but also its toxicity. I believe cocaine toxicity is really an issue when you use it regularly. Reading your posts I see that you are quite knowledgeable in the use of the coca leaves, from your research do you think that drinking coca wine 1-2 times a week (while having sex or going out) can be an issue, giving you health problems?

that's a tough one, and many factors come into play in trying to give an answer.
I have to say that don't have any authority to label something safe, and that the very notion of safety itself is still highly connected to one's personal medical history and physiological specificities.

Coca use is accepted as being rather benign, though no serious long term studies have validated this claim based on empirical observations. Traditional daily users of coca do not seem to face conditions linked to daily coca use, or die of ailments traditionnally associated with the well documented and accepted dangers of extracted cocaine, which is proably best explained by specifities of coca's administration mode and the pharmacological action of full spectrum coca itself.
i've developed this here in the wiki http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31689

Alcohol, on the other hand, has a commonly accepted toxicity, related to frequency of use, quantities and alcoholic concentrations.
Extracted cocaine HCl and alcohol introduce the well known problems linked to cocaethylene formation which you were mentioning.

A full spectrum coca extract contains alkaloids which interact with each other, which counterbalances the effects of the cocaine present in the leaves, accounting for coca's slight sedative effect for instance. A dose of non alcoholic fluid extract of coca, or highly concentrated tea, isn't strong or euphoriant. Oral coca, drinking coca isn't very efficient administration mode compared to sublingual "chewing" of leaves. Yet this changes when alcohol is added, probably linked to the formation of cocaethylene.
The effects of coca and alcohol are indeed quite different from coca by itself, the alcohol really giving coca a more euphoriant, stimulant quality- though it is still quite a different animal than cocaine HCl and alcohol, both in terms of strength and effects. Coca alcohols do still maintain a relaxing quality, a depressant effect, but coupled with mental rather than physical stimulation, and can induce strong inebbriation, different from that of alcohol by itself.
The changes in the nature of coca's effect do indicate that cocaethylene comes into play, and that it is most likely absorbed better and faster through the digestive system, with less breaking down than with the alkaloids of a full spectrum, yet non-alcoholic, coca drink.

So it is most likely not very good for you--- yet physically less harmful than cocaine HCl and alcohol, for practical reasons : actual cocaine / ecgonine and related alkaloid concentrations in coca are quite low, which means that the cocaine to alcohol mix ratio inducing the cocaethylene is lower than insufflated cocaine HCl and a few drinks, the cocaine concentrations are physically lower.
Other factors at play are the actual coca concentrations used to make the drink, quality of the coca, the maceration time is any, the alcohol content of the drink (if it's a wine that would be around 12°), speed at which it is ingested... and the amount drunk...

to stay on the safe side, and due to the formation and absorption of cocaethylene, one has to say that it's not good for anyone, and can possibly induce the complications linked to with cocaine HCl + alcohol's cocaethylene---- which makes a big difference with non-acoholic coca. It could be potentially dangerous to someone with cardiovascular issues, or lead to such issues, which are discussed here
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...?t=8015&page=3
Yet it is most likely to be less dangerous than cocaine HCl and alcohol, for the reasons previously given.

As in many things, moderation is the key here. once or twice a week could be pushing it, but it also depends on the amount used...
Tonic coca wines were part of the western pharmacopea until the 1930's. The recommended doses were of a glass or two a day, for standard fortified (15°) tonic wines ( coca based, but also in some formulations quiquina, kola, orange peels)

[PitfromGreece]

One more question for the wine recipe that you posted, SWIM wants to make a coca wine, as you said from your academic research the best pH for coca extraction is 9. Pure alcohol has a 5.5 pH. what is the most available method in measuring the pH of a solution?

SWIM is not sure if he wants to add soda to make the solution close to 9 PH even if this will make a wine with less alkaloids, as SWIM told me wants to use this recipe prior having sex with his girlfriend and maybe baking soda will ruin the taste of the wine.

SWIM believes making an alcohol extract with coca and other ingredients and pour it in a good red wine might be a better method for preserving the flavor of the wine.

[Potter]

No not at all. Few thousand years of Andean civilizations have shown no ill effect from constant coca use. While coca and alcohol does become a bit more toxic, there are hardly sufficient quantities to be too worried about, unless one plans on taking up a heavy drinking habit.

A quick search on coca leaves versus cocaine will show they are safe to use as a food.

[PitfromGreece]

Benga,

Thanks for the detailed and informative response.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Potter

No not at all. Few thousand years of Andean civilizations have shown no ill effect from constant coca use. While coca and alcohol does become a bit more toxic, there are hardly sufficient quantities to be too worried about, unless one plans on taking up a heavy drinking habit.

A quick search on coca leaves versus cocaine will show they are safe to use as a food.

yes, but cocaethylene does come into play, though in much lower concentrations than cocaine and alcohol. the effects are quite different than with non alcoholic oral coca, and the mixture is actually quite intoxicating, which highlights the role played by cocaethylene in this case, so one can't rule out the possibility of some issues.
but this really depends on the coca concentration and amount ingested of course- in moderation it is most likely not very harmful, and clearly less so than cocaine and alcohol anyhow.
still, from an empirical point of view a night of drinking a strong coca alcohol drink is certainly felt the next day. recollection of the night's events can be difficult in some cases.
using it for sex is probably interesting, though the stimulant effects of the drink are more mental than physical.
SwiPitfromgreece, swim wouldn't bother about the drink's pH in this case. Adding baking soda will make the drink foul, and it works as is. Maceration time is much more important, as well as sub-boiling heat.
the most efficient way to extract plants when one is in a hurry is to make a few passes using a percolator, this has been detailed elsewhere in the forum ( search for herbalist / herbalism recipes), and it saves time on maceration, when one isn't really willing to wait a few days or weeks.

[PitfromGreece]

No not at all. Few thousand years of Andean civilizations have shown no ill effect from constant coca use. While coca and alcohol does become a bit more toxic, there are hardly sufficient quantities to be too worried about, unless one plans on taking up a heavy drinking habit.

A quick search on coca leaves versus cocaine will show they are safe to use as a food.

Yes you are probably right, I am planing to use it only for "special occasions", nevertheless if you search for cocaethylene toxicity, you can see that is quite toxic, from my limited understanding of how cocaethylene becomes toxic only continues use without brakes is really a problem, any SWIY can comments on this?

[Potter]

Was just thinking, if it really was toxic, Vin Mariani wouldn't have been as popular as it was. With so many high profile people drinking it regularly, if it produced negative effects, they would have been publicized.

Now cocaine and booze... You've got a point about concentrations, doctoring up the recipe with the concentrated extract would change things considerably.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Potter

Was just thinking, if it really was toxic, Vin Mariani wouldn't have been as popular as it was. With so many high profile people drinking it regularly, if it produced negative effects, they would have been publicized.

Now cocaine and booze... You've got a point about concentrations, doctoring up the recipe with the concentrated extract would change things considerably.

hard to know as people weren't as health aware as we are now, diet wise and lifestyle wise. The wine was a tonic and apparently worked as a tonic, but experiences with coca wines make one think that it was probably a cocaine spiked wine. One really has to drink a lot of coca wine to feel strong stimulant, tonic effects, and there's a strong depressant effect due to the alcohol. Physical stimulating is low, which probalby implies that it was a cocaine wine, further hinted at by the notion of "cocaine concentrations". Other drinks, labeled as "coca" drinks or others, contained extracted cocaine ( the coca cola syrup for instance), so it is not unlikely Mariani's did too, especially when he began to export to the USA and faced stronger competitors. i've mentioned this in the begining of the history section of the article here http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31693.

Mariani was a clever businessman, using and defining modern marketing with celebrity endorsement ( he apparently sent crates and crates of his wine and then asked for an endorsement or permission to use the celebrity's name), but i wouldn't take the late 19th / early century popularity of coca, cocaine or opiate containing preparations of all kinds as a sign of their inoquity. i really think one should be careful, that it does "hit harder" than plain coca, but that in moderation it shouldn't be that problematic, and really not comparable to cocaine+alcohol toxicity.

[PitfromGreece]

SWIM is very interested in making a coca, blue lotus wine. He wants the wine to have a strong effect and great taste. He searched some books and equipment to distill the coca, blue lotus, spices alcohol mixture before to add it in the wine.

SWIM found a very cheap simple equipment that easily distills alcoholic beverages to increase taste. SWIM has not tried this simple equipment but seems legitimate. This equipment is being sold in many web sites and SWIM was wondering if it would be okay to give me the name of the product and get permission to post it here for other SWIY to say their opinion and hopefully improve the taste of their alcoholic extracts.

[Benga]

no, unfortunately this would be a rule infraction. a pot-still can be made with a large saucepan, a wok, a bowl and some ice cubes. Works fine for redistillation.
this kind of design http://olliver.family.gen.nz/schnapps.htm
more intricate homemade contraptions involve a broken martini glass, as in the "coldfinger" design, but the wok pot still still works great

b

[Potter]

There are a number of threads on still building in Alcohol, and quite a number of amazingly informative sites like www.homedistiller.org that show you how to build your own still.

Reputation Comments on this post:

provided useful information.

[PitfromGreece]

Thank you for the link Potter. The backet still seems that will work pretty good and is really easy to make. I think is the same distillation process that Benga described, but it was easier for me to figure how to set it up with the diagram from homedistiller

Thanks guys, this seems really cool.

SWIM has one more question, he told me he wants to make a coca, blue lotus wine, even put a little kratom if the distillation can take the bad taste away. SWIM wonders if any SWIY has any knowledge if the alkaloids from coca and lotus will evaporate together with the alcohol.


I am sure SWIY are aware that you can buy professional ph meters in a very low price.

[Potter]

Should be fine since it's a closed system. Just make sure to use good alcohol to start, homebrew might contain methanol, which will not be removed from the still above. If you get undesirable flavors, you'll want to build a fancier still to let you remove the "heads" and "tails", the distillate before and after the desirable range.

[happywhiterabbit]

swim has a question : in south america people seem to be using some kind of ashes or edible lime in order to make the leaves potent. Would it be a good idea to add a pinch of edible lime to the mix ( which also works on Areca nut or betel leaves...), cauz swim wants to make some of that sweet brevage for the coming winter
cheers