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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 17-10-2010, 18:08
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Heroin hangover or WDs?

So SWIM went to bed last night in fright. He has been smoking a little too much lately.
He woke, 10 hours later, feeling pretty much fine, a part from a little poor from an existing cold and WDs from SSRI.

Now, SWIM would imagine that WDs would be a pretty clear cut case, that is to say, you will know it when it arrives, yes? Yet... SWIM is a little nervous still. COULD this be more than just a hangover?

Well, guess it's impossible to tell from here...
  #2  
Old 17-10-2010, 23:43
SlightlyBitter SlightlyBitter is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

......

Last edited by SlightlyBitter; 15-08-2012 at 02:51.
  #3  
Old 17-10-2010, 23:46
Revolvingdoo Revolvingdoo is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

More importantly if a person finds themselves in a position of worrying about WD's or addiction, they are on the threshold anyway. It is a very slippery slope from here on in, the person this thread refers to should get out while they still can, or one day its going to be a helluva battle.

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Excellent point and sound advice
  #4  
Old 18-10-2010, 18:28
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Revolvingdoo,

SWIM hears that! It looks like it could be mild WDs. No insomnia or diarrhea, but still...a very "sick" feeling, unlike anything before.
GOD, heroin is unlike anything else in this world, it REALLY is a force of its own. Able to give so much, yet so much pain.

SWIM is taking two days off, but really wants another smoke...

(When smoke said he had been smoking much, he meant 2 bags each day every day a week, with ONE day pause, then another week, minus one day...)

Last edited by Dickon; 19-10-2010 at 13:07. Reason: qwp
  #5  
Old 18-10-2010, 18:45
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
Now, SWIM would imagine that WDs would be a pretty clear cut case, that is to say, you will know it when it arrives, yes?
Nope. In fact, many people, if not told of withdrawal syndrome/"dopesickness", would not even realize they were, well, dopesick - they might think they had a cold, or were "coming down with something".

Also, the symptoms gradually get stronger; initial wds might be nothing more than a slightly upset tummy, sniffles and slightly restless legs, with the possible emotional symptoms of slight (to more) depression, anxiety of varying degrees, and an increasing desire for more opioids (this desire can increase over days time).

Some people don't even feel any wds the immediate day after stopping; early on in an opiate addict's "career", it can take a few days for wds to kick in, and sometimes they're "minor" - mind you, it's all relative, and if someone continues down this career path, they will be kicking themselves in the ass that they didn't quit while wds were "only" slightly loose bowels and a bit of anxiety & craving.

But make no mistake about it - if opiates "cure" one's "existing cold", it's almost guaranteed that was no cold! And if one takes opiates, and that grumbly feeling in the tummy goes away, the anxiety melts & the sniffles are gone, that's not just heroin "working it's magic"; it's heroin getting the addict unsick as well as getting them high.

The longer one uses, the worse the withdrawals become. The longer one uses, the bigger the fear of withdrawals becomes.

One would be wise to cut his usage down to, say, once a week, to avoid physical addiction, even if he'd still be psychologically addicted. Even so, there's a price to pay for that one day of use - what goes up must come down. There's next day depression, desire for more, etc.

AnrBjotk, your friend always frustrates and concerns me. I see the road in front of him clear as day - can't he? Why doesn't he try taking one of the many forks in the road?

If ya can't be good, be careful.

~Kailey

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Very sane advice for the OP!
Great post with great advise from someone who knows where that path leads.
Excellent post - describing the progression of withdrawal symptoms over time - points about it taking more that a day to develop and it being mistaken for a cold are most insightful.
  #6  
Old 19-10-2010, 11:37
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

kailey_elise,

OK, it's F*CKING WDs. No vomiting or nothing, just f*cking f*cking sick.
SWIM doesnt know what do to, SWIM has his dealers number but doesn't want any more F*CKING drugs. SWIM just want's to be taken care of, some psychiatric clinic or something, just no more of this. He wants his old life back, no drugs, no sickness, just plain old life.

He's called his therapist, a real friendly guy, who has made an emergency appointment in three hours. SWIMs gonna ask to be taken away by those men in white coats, ANYTHING, anything to help, anything to STOP IT NOW, while he still can.

Last edited by Dickon; 19-10-2010 at 13:06. Reason: quoting whole post
  #7  
Old 19-10-2010, 12:57
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

AnrBjotk,

SWIY is unlikely to get sectioned, but its good to see a therapist. Just remember these feelings and sickness fade, its horrible now, but it gets better, and when they go, you feel better than you ever did high, almost born again!

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helpful & supportive, with some good advice

Last edited by Dickon; 19-10-2010 at 13:07. Reason: qwp
  #8  
Old 19-10-2010, 13:34
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolvingdoo View Post
AnrBjotk,

SWIY is unlikely to get sectioned, but its good to see a therapist. Just remember these feelings and sickness fade, its horrible now, but it gets better, and when they go, you feel better than you ever did high, almost born again!


The above is excellent advice, but I just wanna add that if AnrBjork continues to use, he can expect more of the same. Only difference is as his tolerance to heroin rises this sick feeling also increases. He won't need to ask "is this WD" he'll know.

Just a thought.

Sparkles.

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fantastic points to raise to the OP, & any one else asking the same questions
  #9  
Old 19-10-2010, 16:15
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
kailey_elise,

OK, it's F*CKING WDs. No vomiting or nothing, just f*cking f*cking sick.
SWIM doesnt know what do to, SWIM has his dealers number but doesn't want any more F*CKING drugs. SWIM just want's to be taken care of, some psychiatric clinic or something, just no more of this. He wants his old life back, no drugs, no sickness, just plain old life.

He's called his therapist, a real friendly guy, who has made an emergency appointment in three hours. SWIMs gonna ask to be taken away by those men in white coats, ANYTHING, anything to help, anything to STOP IT NOW, while he still can.
Hey, I dunno if you're yelling at me, or yelling at the world! But it will be okay.

I wasn't trying to convince your friend he's in withdrawals or anything...just knowing what I know about opiates, and your friend's current use of them, it's pretty clear it's withdrawal.

And like missparkles said, these feelings only continue to get worse & increase in intensity.

HOWEVER, like Revolvingdoo said, these feelings can go away & the sickness goes away, if he discontinues his use of heroin.

Anyway, I dunno if an inpatient detox is needed or anything, and certainly your friend is no where NEAR in deep enough for anything like maintenance treatments, but a therapist is a FABULOUS idea. I'm seeing 2 right now myself! *L* (one I like, the other is mandated by the clinic I go to in order to see the psychiatrist that 'scripts me my psych meds - I don't *REALLY* need two therapists! *giggle*)

Therapy, if used properly, will help one learn the tools & coping mechanisms they may have missed out on learning while growing up. When one doesn't have these regular, normal, healthy coping mechanisms, they often create unhealthy ones, and often turn to drugs. Unhappy feelings? Stuff 'em with drugs! Sad about your pet dying? Drive fast down residential streets! Therapy can teach one REAL, healthy coping skills.

Anyway, just remember, your friend NEVER HAS TO FEEL THIS WAY AGAIN.

And I'll still care about you, either way.

~Kailey
  #10  
Old 19-10-2010, 17:14
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailey_elise View Post
Hey, I dunno if you're yelling at me, or yelling at the world! But it will be okay.

I wasn't trying to convince your friend he's in withdrawals or anything...just knowing what I know about opiates, and your friend's current use of them, it's pretty clear it's withdrawal.

And like missparkles said, these feelings only continue to get worse & increase in intensity.

HOWEVER, like Revolvingdoo said, these feelings can go away & the sickness goes away, if he discontinues his use of heroin.

Anyway, I dunno if an inpatient detox is needed or anything, and certainly your friend is no where NEAR in deep enough for anything like maintenance treatments, but a therapist is a FABULOUS idea. I'm seeing 2 right now myself! *L* (one I like, the other is mandated by the clinic I go to in order to see the psychiatrist that 'scripts me my psych meds - I don't *REALLY* need two therapists! *giggle*)

Therapy, if used properly, will help one learn the tools & coping mechanisms they may have missed out on learning while growing up. When one doesn't have these regular, normal, healthy coping mechanisms, they often create unhealthy ones, and often turn to drugs. Unhappy feelings? Stuff 'em with drugs! Sad about your pet dying? Drive fast down residential streets! Therapy can teach one REAL, healthy coping skills.

Anyway, just remember, your friend NEVER HAS TO FEEL THIS WAY AGAIN.

And I'll still care about you, either way.

~Kailey
SWIM just came home from his therapist. He COULD have been "sectioned", but chose to give it one more day. He jokingly talked about upping his use so that he COULD get proper treatment, and proper care. Currently SWIM is in a place where he isn't sick enough to get help! GREAT! Should SWIM perhaps start mainlining? Should he take an overdose? What does he need to do to get some f*cking help?
Anyway, his dealer won't pick up the phone, too sick to go to the street to buy. Expecting kratom in the mail, but it could take days.

SWIM has so many people he wants to blame. Before he got dumped he didn't touch a cigarette or drink a drop of alcohol, had he been in a steady relationship he wouldn't be in this mess...

SWIM KNOWS that to have been taken care of, to be pampered, mollycoddled, or at least looked after, would have taken the edge of more than anything. Yet, he sits alone, surrounded by filth, a sky high debt, both to landlord and the police, without anyone (who isn't paid to) giving a f*ck.

If SWIM was to (and this isnt a threat, just a thought experiment) cut off one finger now, that would not only take away the top of the WDs, but also give SWIM something that could be TREATED. A catharsis, as the intellectual buggers call it.
Two hours of weeping like a child at the the-rapist didn't do much good.

To quote Herbert Huncke:


"Oh, I will try - must try to get away somehow. I could never bear pity - already I believe they pity me - and all is lost"

All is lost
  #11  
Old 19-10-2010, 17:40
ex-junkie ex-junkie is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
GREAT! Should SWIM perhaps start mainlining? Should he take an overdose? What does he need to do to get some f*cking help?
Help starts at home mate. As hard as it is, it's ultimately up to SWIY to make these choices. It's up to you whether you want to make good ones or bad ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
Anyway, his dealer won't pick up the phone, too sick to go to the street to buy.
If SWIY wants to help himself, then he needs to delete this phone number. You can't have your cake and eat it. The longer SWIY continues to use, the worse these withdrawals are going to get. Believe me, if SWIY is going crazy after a couple weeks use he aint seen NOTHING yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post

SWIM has so many people he wants to blame. Before he got dumped he didn't touch a cigarette or drink a drop of alcohol, had he been in a steady relationship he wouldn't be in this mess...
Do you know what is wrong with this? SWIY is in this position because of his choices. Nobody held a gun to his head. Sorry for the tough love approach but the sooner you realise this the better. It's not the ex-partners fault. Let that one go or it will hold you back in more ways than one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post

SWIM KNOWS that to have been taken care of, to be pampered, mollycoddled, or at least looked after, would have taken the edge of more than anything. Yet, he sits alone, surrounded by filth, a sky high debt, both to landlord and the police, without anyone (who isn't paid to) giving a f*ck.
Take a good look at these surroundings. This should be inspiration to embrace change and nip it in the bud now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
.

All is lost
This is not true. Just like SWIY got himself into this situation, he can reverse on out of there. Walk backwards out of the forest in the opposite direction that you followed in.

In the meantime, SWIY should seek some clonidine to help with the uncomfortable bone and nerve sensations, and if possible, some promethazine [phenergan] for relaxation and to help with the flu like symptoms.
  #12  
Old 19-10-2010, 18:41
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-junkie View Post
In the meantime, SWIY should seek some clonidine to help with the uncomfortable bone and nerve sensations, and if possible, some promethazine [phenergan] for relaxation and to help with the flu like symptoms.
Do SWIY really think SWIM would get clonidne? SWIM feels there a pretty decent junkie-hatred here, and not sure they would take me serious. Sick, but not too sick!

SWIM actually found that a joint, however much he detests marijuana, did help a little.
  #13  
Old 19-10-2010, 19:12
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
Do SWIY really think SWIM would get clonidne? SWIM feels there a pretty decent junkie-hatred here, and not sure they would take me serious. Sick, but not too sick!

SWIM actually found that a joint, however much he detests marijuana, did help a little.
So, out of fear, your friend wouldn't even *TRY* to obtain a substance that would GREATLY ease the pain he's feeling now?

The "drowsy antihistamines" ej spoke of are often available over the counter/off the shelf; one would be seeking what's called "first generation antihistamines", the Big3 being:

* promethezine (Phenergen is a common brand name)

* hydroxyzine (Vistaril is a common brand name)

* diphenhydramine (Benedryl is a common brand name)

Certainly, ONE of those is available OTC in your friend's area! He's in a VERY lucky position right now, though it probably doesn't feel much like it - he could more than likely easily get though this withdrawal with clonidine & one of the above alone. Maybe even just one of the above, tbh (though clonidine or lofexidine make things FAR easier, even for people going through a "stronger" w/d than your friend).

I mean, if he wants to just give up and not even try, and sit in his corner & have his little poor me pity party, go for it. But there are people out there willing to, trying to, help him out. He just has to be willing to take the help.

~Kailey

Oh, and clonidine's not ONLY prescribed to "junkies"; it's officially for blood pressure, and often prescribed to people for many reasons; stage fright, as a non-addictive anti-anxiety medication, all kinds of things. Plus, your friend is smart. I bet if he can find Kratom on demand, he can find clonidine just as easily - it's not a Scheduled medication anywhere that I've heard of or anything like that.
  #14  
Old 19-10-2010, 19:12
TheBigBadWolf TheBigBadWolf is offline
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AW: Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
He jokingly talked about upping his use so that he COULD get proper treatment, and proper care. Currently SWIM is in a place where he isn't sick enough to get help! GREAT! Should SWIM perhaps start mainlining? Should he take an overdose? What does he need to do to get some f*cking help?t
This is what people here try to give SWIY - help!

One thing to add: The Wolf does not believe SWIAnrBjotk he was joking when talking about upping his dose.
SWIM sees SWIAnrBjokt crying for help and seemingly no-one (in his view) answers his cries. One thing to "cry luoder" would be upping his use.
SWIM just found a note on the floor he wants to quote to SWIAnrBjotk:

Dude,
It is the dope making you scream for using more of it. Get off of this train before WDs are so strong you can't do otherwise than consuming. You are on the probably last exit on the road called addiction before physical dependence grabs your balls so tight you can't abandon your habit.

End of Quotation.

SWIM wishes that SWIY have the power to refuse dope's approaches.

TBBW
  #15  
Old 19-10-2010, 19:13
ex-junkie ex-junkie is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Clonidine is commonly prescribed for opioid/opiate withdrawal. It's not addictive and as long as SWIY doesn't have low blood pressure, it *should* be easy to obtain. Of course the only thing that will stand in the way is a prejudiced doctor. If a doctor is unaware of the benefits of clonidine in opiate/opioid withdrawal, there is a fuckload of credible research and information available on the internet.

Phenergan is a drowsy anti-histamine used for hayfever. It is OTC [over the counter] in some countries, however in some countries it requires a prescription. I'm not sure about Norway, the google results were questionable.

These are not drugs of abuse and significantly reduce the withdrawal symptoms. Also SWIY should consider a short buprenorphine taper. With a small habit, it would only take 3-7 days of this medication. Alongside clonidine and promethazine, it was the most comfortable detox SWIM ever endured. SWIM was only on buprenorphine for 5 days and on the 6th day she started a low dose naltrexone induction.

Hot baths and showers are helpful too, even though SWIY probably won't feel like it, but they drop the blood pressure a little bit and in turn temporarily reduce withdrawal symptoms.
  #16  
Old 19-10-2010, 19:29
antialias antialias is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Swim guesses this is swiys first heroin WD then? Since swiy actually had strength enough to go to the therapist swiy is still not as sick as he would be if he continues using now.. because if swiy thinks what he is feeling NOW is bad..imagine what swimmers who have been using gear nonstop for months and years feel when swiwe get dopesick. It is what you are feeling now x10.. swim is talking medieval torture here.

Swims advice is for swiy to just stick it out and take the pain these few days and NOT calling swiys dealer because swiy should conside the first WD simply a slight warning of whats to come...swiy has a choice now, quit right away and never touch the shit again or keep on going and prepare swiyourself for many many days when swiy wish he would just die because the pain and agony..both mentally and physically, will be so hard that dying will feel like a cozy alternative..

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Absolutely 'spot on', Great Advice for the OP!
  #17  
Old 19-10-2010, 19:35
TheBigBadWolf TheBigBadWolf is offline
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AW: Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-junkie View Post
Hot baths and showers are helpful too, even though SWIY probably won't feel like it, but they drop the blood pressure a little bit and in turn temporarily reduce withdrawal symptoms.
This relates to the Wolf's experiences in withdrawal, he was finding hot baths ( >40°C) helpful concerning restlessness of legs and general agitation.
They also helped him to find sleep, espescially when valerian admixtures were used.
Valerian tabs also seem to have a generally tranquillizing effect on body, mind and soul.

TBBW

Last edited by TheBigBadWolf; 19-10-2010 at 19:38. Reason: HTML fault
  #18  
Old 20-10-2010, 09:53
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Oh, God, SWIM will ask for these and all the medication he can get. I mean..it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

If he could at least remove the SSRI-wds, he would be a little better. But this is agony. MJ helps a little, but as always makes him so freakin lazy.
  #19  
Old 20-10-2010, 17:59
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
Oh, God, SWIM will ask for these and all the medication he can get. I mean..it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

If he could at least remove the SSRI-wds, he would be a little better. But this is agony. MJ helps a little, but as always makes him so freakin lazy.
Is there a particular reason he went off the SSRI recently? He *may* want to restart it, at a very low dose, for a little while, until he has the Heroin thing under a bit more control, then taper the SSRI at an even slower rate.

Or is he referring to "going off SSRIs" in terms of quitting tramadol?

~Kailey
  #20  
Old 21-10-2010, 19:23
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailey_elise View Post
Is there a particular reason he went off the SSRI recently? He *may* want to restart it, at a very low dose, for a little while, until he has the Heroin thing under a bit more control, then taper the SSRI at an even slower rate.

Or is he referring to "going off SSRIs" in terms of quitting tramadol?

~Kailey
Quitting tramadol?? SWIM means SSRI as in anti-depressants
Suddenly he has gotten a new anti-dep, not a SSRI-type, so SWIM doesnt know how that work.

But the WDs are getting better, and loads of kratom helps too.
  #21  
Old 21-10-2010, 19:29
Revolvingdoo Revolvingdoo is offline
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Re: Heroin hangover or WDs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
But the WDs are getting better, and loads of kratom helps too.
Very glad to hear! Kratom can work wonders! Becareful though! Kratom in itself can form dependance, although not nearly at the rate of other opi's. Good luck with your future! your over the hump now!

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