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Drug Policy Reform & Narco Politics The war on drugs, drug politics, how drugs influence politics & (inter)national conflicts.

 
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  #1  
Old 08-10-2010, 00:48
beena beena is offline
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If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Hypothetical question for everyone:

First of all, people who don't presently use class A drugs: would SWIY use class A drugs if they were sold legally? Presumably SWIY would know that there would be no legal/criminal repurcussions if SWIY did and that the drugs SWIY bought would be readily available, of good quality, and the quality maintained each and every time SWIY used. The drugs would inevitably still be addictive though.

Secondly, for those who presently use class A drugs: would SWIY feel any motivation to stop using drugs if they were readily available, of good quality and legal?
  #2  
Old 08-10-2010, 13:24
veritas.socal veritas.socal is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

mescaline is on that list, and is non addictive
but this is such a great topic, because swim recalls that some hypothesize that LESS people would use were it legalized, and allegedly(swim has no ref to cite) hollands hard drug usage went down upon decrim...and swim aint so sure that its decriminalized there, read somewhere that its soft drug(drug???) and not prosecuted, but still aint legal
anyways swim doesnt do opiates or coca...but swim loves psychedelics. wouldnt it be great if all swimmers could experiment with whatever(creation or consumption) and not be hampered by drug/precursor laws.
purity, or should swim say"quality control"...pharmaceutical grades of everything, all adulterants would be sterile....
  #3  
Old 08-10-2010, 14:18
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by veritas.socal View Post
mescaline is on that list, and is non addictive
but this is such a great topic, because swim recalls that some hypothesize that LESS people would use were it legalized, and allegedly(swim has no ref to cite) hollands hard drug usage went down upon decrim...and swim aint so sure that its decriminalized there, read somewhere that its soft drug(drug???) and not prosecuted, but still aint legal
anyways swim doesnt do opiates or coca...but swim loves psychedelics. wouldnt it be great if all swimmers could experiment with whatever(creation or consumption) and not be hampered by drug/precursor laws.
purity, or should swim say"quality control"...pharmaceutical grades of everything, all adulterants would be sterile....



Hey man, hard drugs are most definately NOT decriminalised in The Netherlands. I think that in the big citites, Amsterdam with its international 'gebruiker' community. Many people find themselves on the streets. Italians, Germans, French, Surinammers, Brits anyone, there are 170 odd nationalities, and if your in the EU, its only a stamp of approval away at the forgein police. The Dutch kids find this particularly unglamourous. That city can suck you in and spit you out. Believe.
  #4  
Old 08-10-2010, 14:27
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

^^ perhaps the OP meant to say Portugal, where all drugs were decriminalized about 9-10 yrs ago and usage has indeed gone down...

this is such a good question on many levels...catty can only say that at this moment in time, and with full knowledge of the risks and addictive properties, she would indeed be putting on her shoes and heading out to the local chemists for a bag
But its not...and she won't
  #5  
Old 08-10-2010, 14:30
rocksmokinmachine Gold member rocksmokinmachine is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by catseye View Post
^^ perhaps the OP meant to say Portugal, where all drugs were decriminalized about 9-10 yrs ago and usage has indeed gone down...

this is such a good question on many levels...catty can only say that at this moment in time, and with full knowledge of the risks and addictive properties, she would indeed be putting on her shoes and heading out to the local chemists for a bag
But its not...and she won't
You think they'd have a credit facility??
  #6  
Old 08-10-2010, 15:26
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

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Originally Posted by rocksmokinmachine View Post
You think they'd have a credit facility??
catty hopes so, darlin...she also hopes she would earn bonus points for each purchase, and that they would issue loyalty cards
  #7  
Old 11-10-2010, 07:04
CaptainTripps CaptainTripps is nu online
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

I think if all drugs were legal and were pharmaceutical grade people would make more responisible choices in which drugs they used and how they used them. I doubt that many people are deterred from using drugs due to possible criminal penalities. The real affect the law has is on availability, price and quality. Prohibition decreases availability and quality, while increasing the price. High prices and low quality tend to encourgage more dangerous means of consuming drugs, like IV use as they are more efficient. If heroin was legalized, without legalizing anything else, I think the use of heroin would increase. This is because two of the biggest deterrants, cost and poor quality would go away. The biggest dangers of heroin are from what it is cut with or other problems in the manufacturing process and the inconsistant strength that can lead to overdoses. Also, if heroin were more affordable, people who would never use a needle, might smoke or snort it. This combined with the fact that addicts can take maintance doses and maintain jobs and other responsibilites, might make it more attractive than some other drugs.

Perhaps the more interesting question would be, if all drugs were legal, would heroin still be their drug of choice. Oddly enough one reason heroin is so popular is that it is readily available and inexpensive compared to some semi-legal drugs like oxycontin, when sold on the illegal black market. One might ask themselves, is heroin really their drug of choice, or rather their drug of default.

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excellent post! Welcome to DF and keep up the good work. Love the "drug of choice vs drug of default" observation.
  #8  
Old 26-11-2010, 04:18
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

I would likely use heroin at least as much as I do now (nasally 1 gram yesterday, 1+ gram today) if it were legal. It is of note, however, that heroin is a very benign substance on the human body. Ibuprofen causes more damage to the human body than heroin. Moreover, if legal, I would not be ingesting unknown adulterants. I am able to function well while using heroin, I do not use to the point of nodding so am able to be productive at work, in social situations, etc. My present use is NOT daily on a consistent basis, however. Sometimes I will use for several days consecutively, sometimes I will use for 1-3 days and then not use for the next 1-3 days. The 'negative' results associated with my present use are: 1. the cost, I spend much more than I should on 'recreation'. If I did not use heroin I would have several hundred dollars a week available for other things such as saving for retirement, and 2. periods of 1-3 days when I become sick withdrawing after using for several days consecutively. I miss work on these occasions and it also interferes with my relationship to my wife and other aspects of my life as I typically stay in bed and sleep quite a bit. If heroin were legal #1 would change significantly for the better as I estimate the cost would be less than $100 per week rather than several hundred per week and #2 would likely change by me increasing my use, using daily and becoming and staying physically dependent while avoiding any sickness withdrawing. Since heroin is not dangerous to the human body dependence would not be an issue of concern unless supply of heroin were interrupted. If this were to happen the withdrawal sickness would likely be much worse.

More generally, I think society as a whole would be MUCH better off. Street addicts, junkies, would be able to afford their daily dose by panhandling, sharing with friends (such as is done with cigarettes as they are not costly since they are legal) , etc. The crimes these addicts commit to fund their habits would not continue to take place. Cigarette addicts do not steal to fund their cigarette addiction. Addicts would also not have to spend a significant amount of time each day running scams, etc to acquire funds to pay for their drugs, they would not skip meals to save money for heroin. Basically, all of the effects from drug prohibition that addicts suffer from: ingesting adulterants, ingesting substances with varying and unknown levels of purity thereby risking OD, spending time in dangerous areas increasing the likelihood of being victimized, increased risk of contracting hepatitis and HIV- I think that if legal needles, information on safety, etc would be more available and even more normalized than it is now as heroin would likely be sold in pharmacies or similar and not the hallways and alleys of ghetto's, etc. Heroin is also a depressant, not a stimulant like coke or meth so prolonged use will not result in erratic behavior, drug induced psychotic episodes or similar so even if there was an increased use among the population (which I think is unlikely based on information obtained from studies in Europe where use went down over time when ready access was given in a medical type setting taking the bad boy/looser image away from heroin use).

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  #9  
Old 27-11-2010, 02:34
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

If someone is on heroin, they're going to keep on doing heroin. Regardless of whether it's legal or not. Prohibition cannot stop demand for addictive substances; it can only stop demand for boring substances that doesn't have enough demand for someone to risk selling it.
  #10  
Old 28-11-2010, 23:22
sadskills1987 sadskills1987 is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

watch the bbc documentary the if debate if drugs were legal. it gives some good arguements and i agree with what they were talking about doing for drugs like heroin. by making them available tax subsidized at a consistent purity with clean needles and safe, supervised shooting places, heroin related crime and death will drop staggeringly. if these places also give the option to get off skag with programs i think more will try to stop. in my opinion addicts should be covered under the americans with disabilities act, although that will never happen.
  #11  
Old 29-11-2010, 04:12
Killa Weigha Killa Weigha is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Why would a heroin user want to stop if it were subsidized (affordable and pure)? Some of us would take the opportunity to actually get back on, I reckon.
  #12  
Old 30-11-2010, 03:05
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Personally I think we should all be able to do what we want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone elses's rights. I'm not sure how someone can call themselves an American and not think that.

Another question I would postulate though, do you think that with the full legalization of drugs you would see a drop in the number of religious people?
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Old 30-11-2010, 13:54
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killa Weigha View Post
Why would a heroin user want to stop if it were subsidized (affordable and pure)?
Because Heroin is a equivalent to Un-Freedom, Imprisonmend and Slavery!

In his old days the Raccoon had not such a big Problem with the Purity
or the amount of Smack and not with the repressive Machine,
in fact he could afford much more luxury Goods and Items,
but there are some points/crossings in the Human Life
where a Man want to be Self-Responsible, Autarchy and Autonomic,
but all this can't be combined with a Drug like Heroin!

"Freedom" (imo. the ultimate Human Goal) starts in our/yours and my Head!

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Fantastic answers to "why would a heroin user stop if it were subsidised?"
Spot on! The point about freedom is a fundamental one.

Last edited by Spucky; 30-11-2010 at 14:04.
  #14  
Old 30-11-2010, 14:09
Pieces Mended Pieces Mended is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

SWIM had to look at the definition of "Class A" drugs, as he is more accustom to the US scheduling system. It appears most of them are forms of opiates/opiods. SWIM can say that while he would be likely to use some of the opiates on occasion, he largely has always made an effort to stay away from long-term use of such drugs, even when readily available. Cocaine is on the Class A list, which SWIM would find tempting, but also knows the social issues the drug causes because of the binge habits most users form. SWIM would also only consider either if the cost was to come way, way down as a result of the drugs being readily available and price competitive in the open market.

As an aside, SWIM finds it interesting that in the UK, hydrocodone is a "Class A" drug, while amphetamine is a "Class B". In the US, it's essentially flipped. Simple pain refills can be faxed over to a pharmacy by a doctor, while the stimulant prescriptions must be hand-written every 30 days.
  #15  
Old 22-04-2012, 23:50
saintsanity saintsanity is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

By interesting account many different cultural factors one can really highlight real world insight into the application of such social agreement by looking at the past. I think Jacob H. Huebert in his short essay http://www.lewrockwell.com/huebert/huebert35.1.html sums up many points people here and respective social figures of authority that epitomise arguments in favour or more so characteristic neutrality to the phenomenon.

He ends with the novel point "

Most drug users were not street criminals; instead, the typical addict was, as author Mike Gray put it, "a middle-aged southern white woman strung out on laudanum."

This standing out in question of the drugs war when you consider the opposite of the free open distrubution of opioids etc to the complete contrasting criminalisation such culture has in placement now to an effective contrast hugely disproportionation to the socio-political motive and induction.

You only need at language like "Hillbilly heroin" for those educated in such matters to understand this phenomenon. Like with the past of southern middle aged women being strung out on laudanum bought from the pharmacy, here and today that exact same demographic subtype was used to summarise the opiate addict of today being a southern middle aged women strung out on oxycodone; laudanum, oxycodone, it makes it less than ironic that not only the 1 and 1.5 equipotency makes morphine and oxycodone similar in their characteristics biomedicalically but also culturally looking at the way these drugs have their place in the respective cultures medical community in therapeutic and psychotropic interest are near identical.

Has much changed and the meanings behind this, don't they teach us something?

Take care.
Sean
  #16  
Old 23-04-2012, 06:11
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

If I could function, yeah, but you can't work a job and earn money if you're high on h all day every day...
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:41
The_Joker The_Joker is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

I would like to think that it would improve the problem since the "war on drugs" is stupid and is never going to be won anyway, the only winners are the cartels who are able to mark up their products 10,000% and have so fucking much money they are probably burying trash bags of it in their front lawns since they already have a Porsche in every color.

Probably within a year, though, i would have a massive cocaine and meth problem.

Another issue is drug testing. Obviously people shouldnt be driving around or on the job high off their asses. So if drugs were legal and they were doing them at home on the weekend, then that would be legal and okay. Now say you are driving somewhere and get pulled over by the cops. Actually, you have had a horrible accident and killed someone. You arent under the influence, the cops dont believe you are either, but it is protocol that you must submit to a drug test in any accident involving a fatality. You pee in a cup, and it comes back with THC in it. How do they know when you smoked it? It was a week ago, and obviously had nothing to do with the wreck, but how can it be proven?

You're a doctor, you do surgery and there is a fuckup which isnt really your fault, but there is a lawsuit coming down on you. Unfortunately, you and your buddy did a gram of coke last weekend, and popped a few Percocet. You were off duty, and hell its legal now, you picked it up at 7-11. But its still in your pee. The lawyers are going to push that the fuck up occurred because you were high on coke and pills, which you werent....that was 4 days ago. But your pee is still hot. What's going to happen?

You see what I mean? I dont know what the answer is, i think people have a right to do whatever they want to if they arent hurting anyone else, but there is this gray area that I dont even know what you would call it. There is a lot of sticky situations legalizing drugs would bring up. Even though arresting everyone who has a joint or a crack rock is filling the jails with nonviolent offenders who dont belong there.....
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Old 23-04-2012, 07:33
WarmCoCo WarmCoCo is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

if these were legal, well trying is okay, but seriously if that was true, then you ll be allowed to try thing out for yourself next door to a hospital er room. Frankly these will never ever be legal again, not enough water of time has gone to the drain since victorian times.
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Old 23-04-2012, 07:44
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

As a non-user of hard drugs (particularily speaking of crack, meth, and heroine) I'd probaly try meth, herione, and probaly buy some coke and probaly MDMA knowing that is pure.

However, I'm not sure I'd be a regular user. I could get into a good coke habit probaly, but judging from my methylphenidate use, probaly wouldn't like meth, and opiates in general aren't that enjoyable I find, but I'd try herione just to know the hype behind it.

Would probaly snort H and meth, I wouldn't be that into smoking meth (sounds gross), might try smoking H though actually.

I think in general I'd probaly use drugs less, hang out with drug users less, but use a wider variety of drugs.

If drugs were available legally, I think I could abondon a lot of my "friends" who I don't really like anyways, but they get me connects. I could also stop contacting dealers often to make sure they remember me and buying in more than I want because dealers don't want to sell too low quantity usually.

Also I'd probaly not just stick to one drug like I do now, I'd probaly spend a weekend with different drugs, and try a whole bunch out and stuff.
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Old 23-04-2012, 12:25
Lady Codone Lady Codone is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Personally, SWIM would probably experiment with a few things she can't get in the current prohibition climate simply because they aren't available to her now and are likely cut w/ god knows what. Heroin? No. Meth? Never. But some lesser amphetamines and empathogens would be fair game.

As for the "happily addicted" thing: I believe there is no such thing as happily addicted. By nature, addiction is a horrible condition that consumes lives whether the drug is illegal or not (don't believe me? Just ask an alcoholic how happy they are). BUT, legalizing heroin would remove many of the pressures that come with being addicted to a prohibited substance--scarcity, poor quality, cost, legal ramifications, etc, making it easier for the addict to focus on other areas of life, like working and supporting him/herself.
  #21  
Old 24-04-2012, 04:37
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Codone View Post

As for the "happily addicted" thing: I believe there is no such thing as happily addicted. By nature, addiction is a horrible condition that consumes lives whether the drug is illegal or not (don't believe me? Just ask an alcoholic how happy they are).
Everything is relative. Take slavery for instance. Suppose someone drugged you and sold you into slavery. You wake up with your new master, but he does not tell you that you are now a slave. You like your new master and want to please him. You are happy to do whatever you are told to do. It never crosses your mind not to do as you are told. Since you always obey your master he is never mean to you and provides for your needs. Since you always choose to do as you are told, are you not actually free? The only way you would not be free would be on the day you choose not to do as told and found there were consequences.

Suppose you were born on a small island and had a painful health problem. You were always given easy access to opiates for your pain. No cost, no judgement, no restrictions. When you developed a tolerance and it required more to ease the pain, you were given more no questions asked. Since the first thing to go with a tolerance is it's effectiveness to kill the pain, you never experience withdrawals as you choose to be as pain free as possible. You live like this your entire life. Where you ever addicted? Sure you were physically dependent but just did not know it. But were you a "drug addict" in the sense that we think about drug addicts in our judgmental, prohibitionist society?

The drugs you had access to were unadulterated and had a purity that allowed for you to use safer means of administration, like orally rather than injection. But if you did decide to inject, you would have clean needles and a pure product of a reliable potency. If you did make a "mistake" you had access to antidotes and there would be no fear in seeking help. No one made you feel guilty about your use. You never had to lie or steal to get them. You never had to live in fear of going to prison and all that might entail. Never had to live with the fear of having to withdrawal.

Many people can function extremely well on opiates. They can use enough to keep well and do the things they need and want to do. They can also do more and get the high that they want, when they want to. The only real downside is that you would need to keep doing the thing you already wanted to do to begin with.

I think that in a world that was truly free and where peoples choices were respected, I think for many people the concept of "opiate addiction" would be a meaningless concept. However, that is not the world in which we live, hence the "horror of addiction" is an all to common reality.

But to directly answer the question of the original poster, to hell with heroin give me oxycondone. I absolutely love the stimulating effect it has on me. Heroin does it too, but oxy gives me an amazing clarity and focus. Alas, in the current political climate it is just not meant to be. The problems far outweigh the benefits.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Great way of looking at this.

Last edited by CaptainTripps; 24-04-2012 at 04:58. Reason: sp
  #22  
Old 24-04-2012, 05:07
enquirewithin enquirewithin is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Codone View Post
....As for the "happily addicted" thing: I believe there is no such thing as happily addicted. By nature, addiction is a horrible condition that consumes lives whether the drug is illegal or not (don't believe me? Just ask an alcoholic how happy they are). BUT, legalizing heroin would remove many of the pressures that come with being addicted to a prohibited substance--scarcity, poor quality, cost, legal ramifications, etc, making it easier for the addict to focus on other areas of life, like working and supporting him/herself.
You are quite right. Before heroin and opium were illegal plenty of accounts of addiction were written and none are positive.
  #23  
Old 24-04-2012, 07:32
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

AFOAF was a very happy 0xycodone user ( started due to medical condition & life seemed better with than without) for about 10 years ( 30 to 80 mg. a day ). He owned & operated several businesses viz;, drove around the country with 16 ft. trailer to flee markets & antique shows buying and selling rare collectibles, set-up a successful internet business, opened store, bought land, paid his bills-N-taxes, took care of elderly relative, helped others learn computer skills so they could sell on the internet, re-sold items to others so they could make a profit ( if you know what your doing you can make a hell of a lot more money, Legally than in any type illegal biz. ). In other words He up-held his so-called social obligations etc. It was only when "legal" source for 0xy vanished that things went-to-hell, so to speak! So, Yes... It's possible to use Legal Drugs in a Responsible way & I'm sure AFOAF would Love to be able to stay a "Happily Habitual" user of 0piates!

PEACE!
  #24  
Old 24-04-2012, 21:35
Sinead67 Sinead67 is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

I would probably stay addicted,but not 'happily'... Methadone is legal,and free and a was most definately NOT happily addicted to it.
Alcohol is legal,i dont know anyone who's 'happily addicted' to booze..
Addiction is never a happy thing in my opinion,because it takes away your choices and your freedom.
Im still all for legalizing all drugs(I think,still not 100% sure) because of harmreduction,crimelevels going down etc etc. But I dont believe there's such a thing as being 'happily addicted'.
  #25  
Old 08-05-2012, 12:06
Wittmann Wittmann is offline
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Re: If all drugs were legal would you happily stay addicted to heroin?

Freedom is a precarious thing, while good in doses, over abundant freedom leads to chaos.

That applies to this discussion exactly, the issue is that while some things really should be legal, if we let everything in, well it'd certainly be bad.

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