Barbituate habit

[wannastop]

I have been taking Fioricet (or the generic version which is Butalbital) since the early 90's. My doctor prescribed them for tension headaches and while I take personal responsibility for my issues with it, I have to admit that my doctor had no reservations with prescribing it in large quantities. Anyway, the dosage is only 1 to 2 pills 3 times a day which is what I would do (if that!). But, the habit developed in the late 90's when stress from work, family pressures, etc. started me on enjoying the high. Basically for anyone that isn't familiar ... this is a downer, but for a while it gives users a heck of a high. It started with me taking 3 pills at once instead of 1 or 2, then 4 at once, etc. I have actually had times where I would take 10! It's amazing I'm alive! I've counted - there have been days where 20+ pills were ingested. In the late 90's, I got a job working for one of the largest companies in the world. I had wonderful medical benefits and started doctor-shopping. Then, I quit there a few years and work from home now for myself. The drug sites on the internet where it is a breeze to get this stuff enabled me to buy 300 to 400 pills per month. Bottom line - EVERY time I say I'm going to quit, I never stick to it. I know this stuff is bad. Let me list the bad:

1) At 1st I'm happy and then I more feisty, easily pissed off, agitated (a side effect listed), depressed, and have felt close to a breakdown.

2) I'm 36, in great shape (yeah, believe it or not, I'm a runner and am skinny and toned), but my face looks like that of a 14 year old with such bad zits!

3) My stomach gets messed up.

4) I pass out and then wake up late.

5) It slows me down when I'm working and doing stuff.

6) It is NOT cheap medication!


Anyway, sorry to ramble here, but can anyone give me advice. I'm 14 days away from a new year and this has got to stop or I will die! Plus, I'm married, confessed this to problem to my husband over 1½ years ago, but can't stop.

I need support because I want to be happy again. Any time I don't have this stuff in my system, I'm relaxed and normal. But, I'm different when I take it.

I think (at this point), boredom or rather monotny with the same darn thing each day in my life, no social interaction, and a sh*tty relationship with my Mother (I can't even talk on the phone with this woman unless I'm stoned from it) makes me reach for it!

HELP! Please!

Thanks!

[IHrtHalucingens]

your best bet is finding something to replace getting high with, i have recently quit smoking marijuana and am replacing it with working out and being healthy, but u already do that so u need to find something else. maybe sex, im sure ur husband would enjoy that too, and it would replace ur addiction with something pleasurable. Next ur husband needs to help you, he needs to give u encouragement and help keep u from giving in and buying/taking these drugs, get all remaining pills outta the house so u have no access to them, and most of all remember that it is an addiction and can be beaten, it will be tough but once u get over the initial hump it will get easier. And try to avoid stress, such as talking to ur mother, at least for a while during the first couple weeks or so. new years is a good thing to use to make urself quit, just remember how much u wanna quit and ul lfind the strength to do it. thats all the advice i have for you, i hope it helps and i wish u alot of luck, and there are people here for you if u need support ever, most of us are friendly and know what ur going through and are very willing to help. GOOD LUCK!!!

[wannastop]

Thanks much for your words of encouragement. I am a VERY disciplined person ACCEPT with this situation.

I don't think my husband knows I'm taking these currently. I mean, I think he thinks I stopped a long time ago. So, to be honest, I need to beat this on my own. I have never had any physical problem when I don't take it. I think the the longest I've gone w/out is like 2 to 3 weeks and I feel great. It's more of a mental thing for me. In other words, its a short escape from the bulls*it, you know!?

As far as your advice about my mother ... I wish you knew the manipulation and the game that is played. Let me put it this way ... I am an only child and my family is Hungarian. The world is wrong and they are right. I have never been good enough. I don't want to sound like the typical liberal out there who blames someone else for what they do, but to be honest I really believe that this addiction's root cause is the aforementioned situation.

Thanks again! I plan on using this forum a lot from now on b/c I am dedicated to beating this!

[IHrtHalucingens]

well if u feel u have to do it on ur own, more power to you, its just in my experience it helps soo much to have someone to talk to, i have my gf who i am very much in love with, and netime i talk to her or am with her i dont even think about drugs, dont need them shes my perfect drug, but if i go a day without seeing her i get depressed and really feel the need to smoke. But if u feel u need to do it w/o his knowledge, it just puts a little more pressure and emphasis on the other aspects, it still can be done and it seems u r in the right mindset to do it. i dont know about ur mother however my mother and i have a very stressfull relationship too, she is a perfectionist and i am a pothead, not a good mix. i find it easiest to just agree with her and go along wit hw/e she says, although it goes against my beliefs it makes it soo much easier than arguing. Ne ways Good Luck again!

[wannastop]

Boy, you and I sound like we have a lot in common (mothers!). I'm more the perfectionist, but I moved away from home at 21 and in with my boyfriend (now my husband0, moved to another state, wear too much make-up, blah, blah, blah! I was raised in a very strict household! Let me put it this way ... at 20 my curfew was 11 p.m.! And even that was a fight! I have truly been a good person (am married to the only boyfriend I have ever had!). You are right though ... just say "yeah, yeah." But that is what's tought - I don't put up with Sh*t!

Anyway, I will keep this forum as my support mechanism. I want to stop and this is at least my way to deal with it!

Take care and thanks again for everything!

[asphyxiate]

Barbiturates have the potential to be extremely harmful when taken frequently, especially something like fioricet. Not only does it contain butalbital, but acetaminophen and caffeine as well. The acetaminophen would be particularly harmful in this case. If you were taking 20+ pills, that is upwards of 6500mg of acetaminophen! This puts you at risk of VERY serious liver damage. All that aside, barbiturate addiction carries with it extremely harsh withdrawal symptoms. If your usage is purely habit and you do not physically NEED them then you will just have to learn to do without them. In the event that you are physically dependant, GET HELP! Do not simply quit cold turkey, as barbiturate withdrawal can cause seizures, and you will be risking permanent damage or even death. It would be wise to seek professional help in such a case. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are able to overcome this.

[wannastop]

Believe me, I know - it's BAD! BUT, it's a high I'm seeking. In other words, it's more mental, because I have stopped before and experienced not withdrawal symtoms or phsyical effects. In fact, I felt great physically!

This is a habitual situation and considering how frickin' disciplined I am with everything in my life, I KNOW I can quit. In fact, I had a bunch of internet sites bookmarked and e-mails that I had stored with links to internet websites that had the cheapest prices. Guess what - they are now off my computer! I mean, sure, I can always find them again - but they aren't as accessible.

I really want to rely on this Forum to help me b/c I really think it helps to have a support group, you know!?

Thanks!

[asphyxiate]

Glad to hear your situation is purely habitual, and from the sounds of it you have already made some progress in halting it. I would suggest attempting to find some sort of outlet where you could deal with some of the emotions you have regarding your mother. It is never a wise decision to use drugs as the escape, because as I am sure you well know; when the high is gone, your problems remain there. I've been down that road time and time again, and it never brings anything but more pain and suffering. Drug use is only safe as long as you are in control, and one should always respect the chemical. Just stick to your goal and prove to yourself that YOU are the one in control.

Best wishes and good luck.

[wannastop]

Hi again:

Well - good news! I have called my phone company and implemented some feature that will prevent her from calling me to continually bitch! Plus, I've blocked her e-mail. It's one of the hardest things in the world to do (especially during the holidays), but here's the thing ... I have two options:

1) Remaind pissed off and bitter, be in a bitchy mood and let it affect my marriage and totally ruin my health b/c I'm taking this crap!

- OR -

2) Be proactive and put measures into place that will help stop this B.S. and in turn help me quit.

Thanks much for your help. Whenever I feel an urge to order this stuff, THIS site will be my outlet b/c I think other people on here are the only ones who can understand and relate.

[asphyxiate]

Well I hope the steps you took in regards to your mother work out for the better. If you haven't already, I would recommend ridding yourself of any remaining butalbital you have in your possession. I can't describe how easy it is to fall back into the habit if you still have some lying around. Otherwise it sounds like you are doing well. Remember, everyday you're one step closer to beating this.

[Richard_smoker]

listen, your body reacts in a very bad way to barbituates (everyone's body does). Even if you can't quit THESE pills NOW, then at least try and change over to something that is not so toxic to your liver as the barbs (they increase smooth endoplasmic reticulum in your liver like CRAZY... this leads to a HUGE tolerance and huge tolerances lead to liver failure from having to take so much tylenol to get your kick).

Personally, I would recommend generic soma. just change over to it if you can. they work really fast and basically have the same effect. they're not controlled, so you can pull your internet trick with these for pretty cheap as well. You will be surprised at how much of a similar, great, fast-acting 'buzz' and anxiety-relieving properties that these muscle-relaxers have. it's like barbituates for the 21st century. doesn't have the same effect on your liver, and no tylenol.

Then, when you're totally converted over, you can try and quit AGAIN!

Seriously, I know it sounds like switching addictions... and I guess that's exactly what it is, but you've got to change the buttons in your brain. I think priority number 1 is to re-establish your weakness from something TOTALLY destructive with long-term consequences to something far less toxic with same effect you're hunting, except possibly better. Then, secondly, you can stop these at your own pace. you're probably going to require a couple at a time get what you want, but tolerance is slow to build, and I think that you will have made your mind up to quit completely way before any true addiction can kick in on the somas.

just my 2 cents. please just consider this. i know it's not as good as everyone else's advice, but it's taking a serious step in the right direction. maybe you're not ready to just all and quit yet. in that case, you need to re-direct your addiction to something that isn't going to kill you (and possibly kill you soon!).

If you need motivation to cross-over, you can think about it like this. Same buzz... even better. works quicker, and easier to quit. your liver will thank you. let me know if this works for you. i'm *extremely* interested!

[lorzapmail]

Swim thinks Soma, a Muscle relaxer, will have no help with barb addicition. SWim sees no relation to the barbs of the 60's and 70's (Seconal and Tuinal) and Soma. SWim suggests Valium. Barbituates are deadly and thank goodnes rarely prescribed. On this one Swim would even seek medical assistance.

[IHrtHalucingens]

I dont think that is necessary right away. i think that she has a good plan and is off to a good start. if she can quit the barbituates cold-turkey id say that is a better choice. although if there is a relapse or she feels she cannot continue with her original plan, then yes u give very good advice! i just think she can do it with-out the soma.

It sounds like you are taking every step in the right direction, deleting the sources, limiting ur contact with the stressor, and using us here as a support. We are all here for you and wish you the best of luck!

[asphyxiate]

That may actually prove to be quite helpful in the event of a relapse. While I don't agree that simply switching from the butalbital to another subsance would be a wise decision in a case of physical dependancy, it could be beneficial as a means to prevent losing the progress you have made. However, be sure to only use this as a last resort. All that aside, you have already made wonderful progress, and I would not at all be surprised if you can overcome this just the way you have planned. And although the use of Soma (or another similar choice) is a great idea in the event of relapse, keep the thought far back in your mind. Why? Because you CAN do this, and ARE making progress towards your goal. Just don't worry yourself too much with the "what if" scenarios and keep yourself in the here and now.

Everyone is pulling for you!

[Richard_smoker]

Yeah, for sure as a last result. Keep it up. Don't give in.

I was hasty.... just don't ever forget me.

[wannastop]

Hi Everyeone:

First, I want to thank ALlL of you for your input. This forum is so helpful, I can't tell you!

I have no more Butalbital in the house - but let me tell you ... the frickin' e-mails that come to me (at least 15 daily) with "special offers" SUCK! It makes you think about it, you know! But, I really have taken EVERY measure (which I have never done to this extent) to stop. I am going to use working out as my outlet. I just really hope that my liver isn't already gone! I've read that working out helps release the toxins in your body and I pray that that has helped. You guys would be amazed with how much of this crap I have taken in that past 10 years. I'm not talking 100's - I'm talking 1000's! It's scary! Also, besides the detrimental physical toll, the mental anguish it causes sucks. It depresses me, makes me incredibly feisty and aggitated and I have thoughts that literally scare me! But, I am truly committed to this and I KNOW I can beat this. Believe me I need your support now because the changes I have made are tough right now.

Thanks again to all! It's nice to have people to talk to who really understand.

[Richard_smoker]

Please, for your liver's sake... after a good 2-3 weeks of working out and staying clean, go to your doc for a checkup--with full blood work.

tell him you're concerned about your liver and kidney functions. Tell him that you've taken a LOT of tylenol over the years. you can throw in the bit about butalbital as well (they won't think anything of it... just stay away from that 1000's comment... just act overly concerned)

and by then, they'll be able to actually give you a number that will somewhat accurately give you an estimate of how much, if any, permanent liver or kidney problems that you have developed over the years.

it's better to know now. WHY? 2 reasons.
1. it will scare the living SHIT out of you (doc won't understand the cause as long as you wait about 3 weeks)
2. it will remind you the importance of seeking help the CORRECT way if you ever feel the need to absolutely turn back to pills to solve your problems.

like i said, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. hopefully, you're fine. you'll never look back, etc. etc. but you know how plans have a funny way of bending and what was once a HUGE problem suddenly looks tiny from a distance. especially once you know that you managed to beat it.

take it from me. I finally quit smoking for GOOD. I mean for GOOD. I told everyone I knew about it and even began looking down on those who still smoke. soon, the new wore off. I couldn't even get the 4mg of nicotine to do me any good from the GUM for christ's sake. and I became an occasional smoker... this went on, mixed in with lots of gum (for my own delusion to be satisfied) and over the last 2 weeks, I've essentially turned back into a hardcore 1+ pack per day smoker as if I'd never even skipped a beat.

the only thing that sucks now is that I have to actually HIDE. I can't believe how condescending I was to those who were obviously too weak to listen to my advice and stop. God, I'm stupid.

and in fact, I think we all are when it comes to something like this.

that's why you need a backup plan for when the going gets tough. My theory is that you need to report all the offers via email as spam so you'll filter them out. then, order you a couple of soma for when the shit REALLY hits the fan--that is IF it ever does.

Then, if and when you fall off the wagon, you're not falling onto cement, you're falling into a big, soft cushion... with absolutely ZERO tylenol and I'm pretty sure it uses a totally different CYP enzyme to metabolize.

You only get one life, and one liver. Sometimes you really need to heed negative/realistic advice as much as you heed the positive and idealistic.

You must convince yourself that NEVER, ever ever again will you turn back to BARBS for your cheating safety cushion. they are out completely. forever. and just never look back.

if it helps, begin to visualize your biggest fear (the more crazy and unrealistic the fear the better--like fear of spiders or fear of rabbits or something from childhood that's not really rational. and right before you fall asleep at night, begin to associate barbituates with that fear. it works really well. and it might just be the extra umph you need to clear your mind of temptation.

good luck and keep chugging away 1 day/time... as I hear they like to say!

[IHrtHalucingens]

thats good advice shemmy. you do definately have to take it one day at a time. i have recently quit all drugs and smoking cigarettes, i was around 1 pack a day as well, i had tried quitting many times before, but one day i just decided that smoking wasnt for me anymore and its consequences far outway its benefits and havent touched one since. once u make that decision in ur mind that u r done and nothing can change that, your half way there. it sounds like u realize the health problems could be there and want ot stop before they are definately there, all you need to do is fight the craving one day at a time. the cravings wont go away easily, everyday i have a severe urge to go out and get some weed, just this once, but if u think about how far you have come and how far you would liek to go, keep ur goals fresh in ur mind and always think of the reasons u quit in the first place. That always really helps me. anywho im rambling so ill stop. keep up the good work.

[miffy]

I don't know much about barbituates, I'm afraid. . .is that speed?

If so, I've done a fair bit of that in my time, but not for the past couple of years.

I'm a heroin addict and have been on for about two years - and tring to stop for most of that 2 years. . . before that, I was clean for a couple of years, and prior to that, I'd had a habit for about six years. . . Scary, when it's all put together like that!

I'm indulgine myself at the moment, but I'll be trying to stop again in a couple of days - life is a pretty ongoing thing of relapsing and stopping at the moment. . .

By now, I've come to the conclusion that addiction's just such a difficult thing to successfully put behind you, that sometimes you need help. . . are there any substance misuse services in your area, where you can get some counselling / advice / treatment?

Wat you're trying to do is really hard to do on your own, and the more support you've got, the better.

Good luck, mate!

[wannastop]

Hi again, all:

All your advise is noteworthy - believe me. But, I have been off the stuff now for 3 days and other than mental/habit effects, physically I have no craving. This habit has been totally mental. In other words ... just seeing that high for an hour. But, I seem happier OFF of it, am more focused and in general, doing fine.

The liver situation scares me - believe me. I'm not sure if I WANT to know to be quite honest. But the advice will be taken into strong consderation since I do go for an annual physical each year.

I'm sorry to hear about what you guys are going thru. All I know is that I feel good knowing other people out there know what I'm going thru and we can all support each other.

Thanks!

[u4ic]

Fioricet is an interesting little combo used to relieve tension headaches. It's accually three different drugs. A barbituate, caffeine and tylenol. If you took for example 20 fioricets that would be 1000mgs of barbituate, 800mgs caffeine and 6500mgs tylenol. The maximum dose of tylenol is 4000mgs, so you're not too far over. I've heard of people taking far more for long periods and being "ok". Thats even a lot of caffeine. You're probably going to want to replace some of the caffeine through another source, like coffee for instance. So I would expect headaches from the caffeine wd's. But who isn't addicted to caffeine? As for the barbituate they are physically addicting and a cold turkey withdrawal might not be recommended due to the possibility of seizures. You were on day 3, how are things?

[Nagognog2]

That amount of a barbituate is potentially fatal. The amount of acetaminophen is way over what most researchers are now saying can damage your liver and kidneys. And 800mg of caffeine? Yuck!

Barbituates, while quite addictive, do not cause the user to become tolerant to the LD50, like an opiate. Read: Eventually you need to overdose to stave off the withdrawl. Very bad news.

[u4ic]

Right you are. Phenobarbital (another barbituate) has the highest fatally rate of any pill when overdose occurs. Researchers are now recommending the maximum long term dose of tylenol from 4000mgs to 2000mgs. I know of someone taking 35 vicodin es (7.5/750) daily, that's 15 grams. I have read stories of people taking a lot more than that even. From what I hear barbituates were very popular in the 70's and 80's.

[H4U2C]

Originally Posted by wannastop

I have been taking Fioricet (or the generic version which is Butalbital) since the early 90's. My doctor prescribed them for tension headaches and while I take personal responsibility for my issues with it, I have to admit that my doctor had no reservations with prescribing it in large quantities. Anyway, the dosage is only 1 to 2 pills 3 times a day which is what I would do (if that!). But, the habit developed in the late 90's when stress from work, family pressures, etc. started me on enjoying the high. Basically for anyone that isn't familiar ... this is a downer, but for a while it gives users a heck of a high. It started with me taking 3 pills at once instead of 1 or 2, then 4 at once, etc. I have actually had times where I would take 10! It's amazing I'm alive! I've counted - there have been days where 20+ pills were ingested. In the late 90's, I got a job working for one of the largest companies in the world. I had wonderful medical benefits and started doctor-shopping. Then, I quit there a few years and work from home now for myself. The drug sites on the internet where it is a breeze to get this stuff enabled me to buy 300 to 400 pills per month. Bottom line - EVERY time I say I'm going to quit, I never stick to it. I know this stuff is bad. Let me list the bad:

1) At 1st I'm happy and then I more feisty, easily pissed off, agitated (a side effect listed), depressed, and have felt close to a breakdown.

2) I'm 36, in great shape (yeah, believe it or not, I'm a runner and am skinny and toned), but my face looks like that of a 14 year old with such bad zits!

3) My stomach gets messed up.

4) I pass out and then wake up late.

5) It slows me down when I'm working and doing stuff.

6) It is NOT cheap medication!


Anyway, sorry to ramble here, but can anyone give me advice. I'm 14 days away from a new year and this has got to stop or I will die! Plus, I'm married, confessed this to problem to my husband over 1½ years ago, but can't stop.

I need support because I want to be happy again. Any time I don't have this stuff in my system, I'm relaxed and normal. But, I'm different when I take it.

I think (at this point), boredom or rather monotny with the same darn thing each day in my life, no social interaction, and a sh*tty relationship with my Mother (I can't even talk on the phone with this woman unless I'm stoned from it) makes me reach for it!

HELP! Please!

Thanks!

Swim suggests that Swiy would benefit from crossing the barbituate over with the long acting benzodiazepine VALIUM{Diazepam}. It may be a good idea for Swiy to ask a specialist about this or swiy"s own doctor, and planning a slow reduction regime with the valium.