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  #1  
Old 15-09-2010, 00:42
uppersdownersallarounders uppersdownersallarounders is offline
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Ceiling effect: is 32mg always 32mg (suboxone)

I've been wondering for quite some time whether the ceiling for suboxone is lower if it is plugged, snorted, or sublingual. Also, would cimetidine (tagamet) or grapefruit juice effect this.
If a kuala is going to plug suboxone and has taken cimetadine, is it a waste to take a full 32mg? If so, is there any dose you would suggest.
stay safe
  #2  
Old 17-09-2010, 10:01
C.D.rose C.D.rose is offline
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Re: Ceiling effect: is 32mg always 32mg (suboxone)

welcome to df!

bobbin sure is not an authoritative member to comment on this, but since there aren't any answers so far..
from what he knows, the ceiling effect of buprenorphine is due to pharmacological, or neurophysiological reasons, so the route of administration (ROA) should have no influence on it (other than a different bioavailability). the 32mg is for sublingual use, so if a different ROA has different bioavailability, the ceiling effect appears at a different dosage, yet it works the same way (i.e., when there are x molecules of buprenorphine in one's system, ceiling effect occurs).

as for cimetidine and grapefruit juice: if bobbin is not mistaken, these do only influence buprenorphine blood levels, through inhibition of the cytochrome that metabolizes buprenorphine. so it basically raises blood levels, or decreases the speed of metabolization. they do not alter the pharmacological properties of buprenorphine. one should be careful with this though, especially when regularly taking buprenorphine, since significant, and potentially dangerous amounts of buprenorphine can build up in one's system. buprenorphine already has a very long duration of action.

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Good harm reduction post.
  #3  
Old 20-09-2010, 23:09
uppersdownersallarounders uppersdownersallarounders is offline
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Re: Ceiling effect: is 32mg always 32mg (suboxone)

Thank you very much for the response and welcoming.

So why are people injecting or snorting 32mg?

If the bioavailability via sublingual is about 30% and rectal is about 50% (this is an estimate, I cannot find a reliable source), then the ceiling effect for rectal use would be about 20mg when used via rectal administration.
  #4  
Old 25-09-2010, 21:13
C.D.rose C.D.rose is offline
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Re: Ceiling effect: is 32mg always 32mg (suboxone)

hmm, bobbin has no experience with injecting or snorting buprenorphine, but there are multiple reasons for why different routes of administrations exist. it may produce a different high, a faster onset, it may last longer or shorter, there can be involved the need to inject (whatever it is one injects), etc., so there is no universal answer to this.

however, bobbin believes that when one goes into the high ranges of buprenorphine such as 32mg, which basically presupposes frequent or daily use, there will probably not be a difference in perceived high (or any high at all), and it all comes down to different bioavailability, and thus, efficiency of administration. bobbin says he has not noticed any effects on his state of mind above dosages of 3-4mg/day.
  #5  
Old 03-10-2010, 22:39
Arthur Dent Arthur Dent is offline
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Re: Ceiling effect: is 32mg always 32mg (suboxone)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uppersdownersallarounders View Post
I've been wondering for quite some time whether the ceiling for suboxone is lower if it is plugged, snorted, or sublingual. Also, would cimetidine (tagamet) or grapefruit juice effect this.
If a kuala is going to plug suboxone and has taken cimetadine, is it a waste to take a full 32mg? If so, is there any dose you would suggest.
stay safe
32mg of Buprenorphine is a vast amount. Has SWIY done a lot of buprenorphine already? What is his/her standard dose? What other opiates is SWIY dependent on?

For a person with no opiate tolerance, 0.5mg is likely enough for a very nice high. I am certain that SWIY can't be in that category. But still, taking 64 times that dose is huge - for the purposes of comparison; an opiate naive person could get plenty high off 0.2 grams of street heroin; 64 times that would be 12.8 grams, which even the hardest hardcore addict is not going to do in a day.

I realise that this is not an apples to apples comparison, and people do take 32mg of bupre after building slowly up to that dose. But still, I am worried on behalf of SWIY in case he/she plans to make a big jump to 32mg.

For example, there's another post in this forum, on the front page, where someone doing 30mg of oxy a day did just 2mg of bupre and was very sick from it.

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Great harm-reduction post about buprenophine dosing.thanks

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anal use, bioavailability, buprenex, buprenorphine, buprenorphine administration, buprenorphine ceiling, buprenorphine dosage, buprenorphine dose, cimetidine, grapefruit, grapefruit juice, inject suboxone, injecting suboxone, plugging, snort suboxone, snorting, snorting buprenorphine, suboxone, suboxone administration, suboxone dosage, suboxone films, tagamet

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