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  #1  
Old 13-09-2010, 16:49
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Speedball without shooting

SWIM had a silly question today:
Is it possible to take a speedball by smoking the H and taking some other "speed" chemical at the same time? Or must it be mixed? Also, are there any legal highs or similar that can be used as a cocaine substitute to enhance the H?
  #2  
Old 13-09-2010, 17:15
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Well, a "speedball" is always coke and heroin. It's usually shot but IMO, mixing the two in anyway is a speedball. Coke is the only thing that works for swim. Speed just overpowers the opiate, there's no synergy like with coke/heroin. A lot of people will disagree and say speed/opiate combos feel great but not swim. A tiny bit of speed to keep the nod away is the only time it's worth taking with an opiate.

Dunno about "legal highs" that would substitue cocaine. Methylphenidate is kinda similar and I believe ethylphenidate is legal in Europe and available from some RC vendors but it's still not the same as coke.
  #3  
Old 13-09-2010, 17:25
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Re: Speedball without shooting

swim did it a lot, actually he never had a IV speedball....
he already did paregoric with femproporex, oc's with coke, codeine with coke...
the most intense was oxycontin with cocaine, but hte one that last longer was paregoric with femproporex....this last one was a very nice surprise since he didn't expect much from it.....
  #4  
Old 13-09-2010, 17:25
AnrBjotk AnrBjotk is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
Well, a "speedball" is always coke and heroin. It's usually shot but IMO, mixing the two in anyway is a speedball. Coke is the only thing that works for swim. Speed just overpowers the opiate, there's no synergy like with coke/heroin. A lot of people will disagree and say speed/opiate combos feel great but not swim. A tiny bit of speed to keep the nod away is the only time it's worth taking with an opiate.

Dunno about "legal highs" that would substitue cocaine. Methylphenidate is kinda similar and I believe ethylphenidate is legal in Europe and available from some RC vendors but it's still not the same as coke.
But, hypothetically you do not HAVE to shoot a speedball?

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A speedball is a speedball because of it's ROA.
  #5  
Old 13-09-2010, 17:38
Moving Pictures Moving Pictures is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

You don't have to shoot it up, IMO. But then we're just arguing semantics. Some people will say it's not a speedball unless you shoot it. Some people will say any combo no matter the ROA of coke/heroin is a speedball. Hell, crack/heroin is a speedball, IMO. It's all a matter of opinion what it really is. It's not like a medical term for the combo, it's a street term used by addicts.
  #6  
Old 13-09-2010, 18:18
RubyHollywood RubyHollywood is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

SWIM knows someone who IVs H then smokes Crack. He tells SWIM it feels just like an IVd speedball of the same ingredients. Guess it doesn't really matter the ROA.

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Misinformed about just what a speedball is.
  #7  
Old 13-09-2010, 18:45
TarBaby TarBaby is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Any swimmers from the UK ever use Khat And Heroin?
  #8  
Old 14-09-2010, 01:20
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Re: Speedball without shooting

swim uses crack/heroin together in an iv shot. usually about 20-30 units. he knows a special trick like everyone else in the city to make the crack dissolve just fine using the substance (which is also very tasty ). anyway, swim believes that a speedball is only taking an upper and downer together, not necessarily in the same second even... it does not need to be shot up, it can be smoked, snorted, anything of the sort. in africa during the civil war in sierra leone some of the children were giving cocaine with gunpowder before going into battle. others were given cocaine with heroin mixed in and they would snort it like doing a regular rail.

basically, swim agrees that the ROA does not matter lol....

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  #9  
Old 14-09-2010, 02:31
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrBjotk View Post
But, hypothetically you do not HAVE to shoot a speedball?
You can call anything you want a speedball, but for it to be a real speedball you have to shoot it. Just mixing uppers and downers is not a speedball. Heroin and cocaine have a very specific and incredibly euphoric effect when they are injected together, that is not even remotely mimicked by any other ROA.
  #10  
Old 14-09-2010, 02:39
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow View Post
but for it to be a real speedball you have to shoot it.
swim and swiy will have to agree to disagree then, but that's the beauty of discussion i guess
  #11  
Old 14-09-2010, 07:45
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

I don't mean for this post to sound abrasive, no need for neg rep, but SWIM has seen this question a lot and really just has to answer with the unabashed truth. A speedball is heroin and cocaine injected, that's all there is to the matter. Anyone can mess with the definition of any word and try and give it a different meaning, but what defines a word is its common use. Case in point:

If someone says "I did a speedball today," nobody with a modicum of drug knowledge, experience, or who is party to heroin culture would say in reply:

"Oh really, what route of administration did you use?"

or

"What drugs did you mix to do it?"

If you did, the best you'd get would be a blank stare, or some form of "do you even know what a speedball is dude?"

It is just extremely common adult knowledge that a speedball is heroin and cocaine injected. Easily the majority of drug users, non-drug users, and even anti-drug zealots define it as such - there is no ambiguity about it, no societal question hovering around about how you define a speedball.

Again, not to offend anyone, but people who mix heroin and cocaine and inject it don't do speedballs to be cool, they do them because they feel so fucking awesome that they don't care about the risk. The people generally trying to change the definition of speedball to include "adderall and vicodin" or some shit like that are just doing it for some kind of misguided "image" reason.

Now, maybe if you mix hydromorphone, morphine, or oxymorphone on the opiate side, with coke, broken down crack, or crystal meth as the stimulant, and most importantly inject it, you can claim to have experienced something like a speedball. But it would have to be injected, no other ROA gives a rush as good as injecting does, and the speedball is all about the unique effects of heroin combined with cocaine and the rush it gives, therefore you can't say that just mixing the two is like a speedball. A speedball is a short acting affair that is 95% based-on and desired-for the rush it gives when IVed.

Last edited by dyingtomorrow; 14-09-2010 at 08:02.
  #12  
Old 14-09-2010, 13:05
thewizzard thewizzard is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

SWIM agrees with Dyingtomorrow.

SWIM will smoke crack and H at the same time, but this isn't a speedball, its just smoking crack and H.

A speedball is when you slam it IMO. SWIM has never done it as he doesn't go near pins, but apparently it is the most mind blowing rush and unlike anything else, I guess which is why its reserved its own little name!
  #13  
Old 14-09-2010, 13:12
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

As usual DyingTomorrow is absolutely correct.

It's heroin & cocaine (or perhaps broken-down crack, which is basically the same thing) and it has to be injected.

THAT, my *cough* friends, is a speedball. Ain't nothing like it in the world. And Girlie wishes to doG she didn't know that, because now she has to stay away from both drugs completely.

Heroin + Cocaine + Injected = SpeedBall. NOTHING ELSE.

Oh, and doing "some kind of upper" and AFTER doing "some kind of downer" doesn't even come CLOSE. It has to be done at the same time. It's actually fairly easy to fuck up if one doesn't know what they're doing - one has to get the ratio of cocaine to heroin correct for it to be, well, awesome and worth the fucking risks.

~Kailey
  #14  
Old 14-09-2010, 13:28
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Re: Speedball without shooting

So vicodin and phentermine is a speedball huh? No, most certainly not. Speedball, or Powerball (as some call it) is exactly what it says. It's the ROA, the IV use, that gives it it's power, or it's speed of administration. That's how it gets it's name.

A screwdriver is a cocktail made from vodka and orange juice, can you imagine calling it a screwdriver if it were made from Scotch (a spirit just like vodka) and cranberry juice? No, it would be a completely different drink. Same thing applies here too. Good question though.

Sparkles.
  #15  
Old 15-09-2010, 04:53
dyingtomorrow dyingtomorrow is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

I guess just to mention some other speedball information -

SWIM has mixed uppers and downers for a long time. Vicodin (hydrocodone), oxy (oxycodone), adderall (dexamphetamine), ritalin (methylphenidate), going into crack, coke, heroin. Using all different kinds of ROA. Every day he is high on heroin and his ADHD meds. Which is why he has to say that nothing is like a speedball.

The big difference he has noticed besides the rush with a speedball is the mental effects. SWIM gets kind of crazy on speedballs, and often times mean on this forum. He actually just did a speedball when he wrote that post above, and had wrote a much crappier post before he edited it and changed it. Something about a speedball kind of takes all the craziness you get off of heroin, and all the craziness you get off of coke, and amplifies them. And stupifies you in a weird way. SWIM hasn't noticed this combining the two in any other way besides injecting.

Just SWIM's experience in the matter, not sure if others will agree. And ... SWIM is about to do another speedball so he will try and refrain from posting.
  #16  
Old 15-09-2010, 06:41
rokman nash rokman nash is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Dave and his buddies used to inject pure cocaine and valium back in the army(82-85) while living in Panama. They used to call these Panamanian(or hootch) speedballs back in the day. But in no way did they ever confuse these with a "speedball". As said above the word speedball is defined for Heroin and Cocaine mixed together and administered via injection. Dave figures that this "cocktail" would not have its own defined word if it was meant to encompass any opiate and "upper(for lack of a better word) mixed together.

It could be that with some druggie poseurs there might be a certain cache with being able to say they have been doing speedballs. A ...... for lack of a better way to say it, cool factor. Most drug users probably know 1 or 3 douches who are always trying to impress with the amount or with the drug that they are claiming to be doing.

Good Thoughts

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makes good points - humorous too

Last edited by rokman nash; 15-09-2010 at 06:52.
  #17  
Old 15-09-2010, 07:42
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailey_elise View Post
THAT, my *cough* friends, is a speedball. Ain't nothing like it in the world. And Girlie wishes to doG she didn't know that, because now she has to stay away from both drugs completely.

Heroin + Cocaine + Injected = SpeedBall. NOTHING ELSE.

Oh, and doing "some kind of upper" and AFTER doing "some kind of downer" doesn't even come CLOSE. It has to be done at the same time. It's actually fairly easy to fuck up if one doesn't know what they're doing - one has to get the ratio of cocaine to heroin correct for it to be, well, awesome and worth the fucking risks.

~Kailey
swim assumes that was directed toward him, so allow him to retort. he knows what injecting crack + heroin at the same time is and how to do it as that is the only way he does dope. he was simply stating other things are called speedballing when an upper and downer are used together and have an effect on the heart... that's all.
  #18  
Old 15-09-2010, 08:36
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Just to act as Devil's Advocate here, I'd like to suggest that, whilst, technically, the users who declare that a 'speedball' has to be a particular combination of heroin and coke, with a specific ROA, are correct in nomenclature terms of traditional understanding, it is actually better harm reduction for the wider community to acknowledge that the same increased risk of harm pertains to a variety of combinations of CNS depressant and stimulant drugs.

This would then encourage a better understanding of the risks people are exposing themselves to, even when their particular combination of choice isn't necessarily IV'd heroin and cocaine.

What's better, sticking to your traditional assertions, and risking many users dismissing the widely acknowledged dangers of 'speedballing', simply because their preferred combination doesn't, as you allege, qualify to be called that, or, hopefully, educating them that they, too, need to be very cautious in their recreational drug use?

Oh BTW, the whole 'heart being pulled in two directions' thing? I've never come across any medical or scientific research literature that supports that myth. The usual cause of adverse effects from ingesting 'uppers' and 'downers' in combination actually comes from the increased dosage of one or both of the drugs often consumed by the user, compared to their, previously tolerable, lower levels they'd dose when taken alone. One often ends up being metabolised faster than the other, leaving the user either hyper-stimulated, or in a state of dangerous CNS depression.

Last edited by MrG; 15-09-2010 at 08:45. Reason: Added detail about speedball myth.
  #19  
Old 15-09-2010, 09:00
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyingtomorrow View Post
You can call anything you want a speedball, but for it to be a real speedball you have to shoot it. Just mixing uppers and downers is not a speedball. Heroin and cocaine have a very specific and incredibly euphoric effect when they are injected together, that is not even remotely mimicked by any other ROA.
totally in agreement with dt. SWIM laughs personally when he hears people talking about doing a speedball, then it turns out they just smoked heroin and crack, or snorted meth and smack. My junkie cat says these are usually the same types of people, that say they get a rush from shoving cwe solution up their ass, or snorting percocets. They have no idea what a real rush, or speedball is.

Not that were cheering people on for i.v use either, being a harm reduction forum and all, but if someones going to brag about doing a speedball, atleast do a real one.
  #20  
Old 15-09-2010, 14:31
thewizzard thewizzard is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

SWIM would just like to point out as well that this is really just a silly discussion about semantics.

It seem like maybe people are downplaying the effects and risks of doing heroin and coke/crack together.

These are two very very powerful drugs, and whatever the ROA mixing them is going to provide a very extreme high, as well as being a very dangerous thing to do. "Speedballing" seems to have a certain stigma, as it is a very dangerous combination, but just because you aren't injecting these drugs doesn't mean it's suddenly a safe thing to do.

Doing the two drugs together is going to get SWIY very high, be very dangerous, and be EXTREMELY addictive.

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Excellent point, good harm reduction post too.
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Old 16-09-2010, 05:22
EyesOfTheWorld EyesOfTheWorld is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

Fully in agreement w/kailey and DT as usual re: speedball related things. Speedball= mixed coke/crack and heroin, IV'd. This isn't to say snorting or smoking them together doesn't feel incredible, it does, but not anything like the real thing. He hates when people say things like "just did a poppy tea and ritalin speedball" Gah. Also would not be happy to be invited somewhere to do speedballs and find someone crushing vicodins and caffeine together.
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Old 16-09-2010, 07:11
cra$h cra$h is offline
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Re: Speedball without shooting

well, if swim were to say he just did a speedball, he'd point out if it wasn't the typical. Like yea, swim justed smoked/snorted a speedball, but downplaying it so he wasn't pulling some fake bullshit, and both parties acknowledge that it really wasn't a speedball, but it's just easier than giving a long-winded story. Yea I get that it's that specific combo, but as long as you get the point across correctly, it's all relative

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adderall, coke, crack, crack and heroin, crystal, downer, drug, drugs-forum, heroin, heroin snorting, shooting up, snorting, speed, speedbal, speedball, speedball without iv use, speedballing, upper and downer, vicodin

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