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  #1  
Old 06-09-2010, 06:36
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Injecting methadone

We can’t stress enough that methadone was made to be taken orally, never injected. It’s not sterile, it has some seriously nasty ingredients for veins and organs, you might end up hanging out, and many users don’t get a rush anyway. This guide is only for those who insist on injecting their methadone, to make sure they can reduce the many risks involved.

Possible health problems

Methadone syrup was never designed for injection. Each millilitre contains 5 mg of methadone hydrochloride, sodium benzoate, ethanol, sorbitol solution, glycerol, caramel and finally, flavour pharmaceutical 503.978/A. These can have the following effects when injected:

Methadone hydrochloride: respiratory depression

Sodium benzoate: Hypersensitivity and allergic reactions. Respiratory reactions have occurred in people susceptible to aspirin-induced asthma.

Ethanol: Central nervous system depression, which can lead to stopping breathing and coma

Sorbitol solution: effects can be similar to a ‘dirty hit’: facial flushing, abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting and sweating. High levels may lead to kidney failure or kidney stones.

Glycerol, caramel and flavour pharmaceutical 503.978/A:
effects unknown.

Some of these ingredients can cause allergic reactions, respiratory reactions, and damage your heart, kidney, veins and liver if injected. Talk to your NSP workers or methadone prescriber about the differences between pure methadone and methadone with additives.

In some cases, methadone is mixed with cordial or fruit juice. Injecting this after it has been in someone’s mouth also means there will be plenty of harmful bacteria entering your bloodstream.

Methadone is not a sterile fluid so blood diseases can arise from injection. A large volume of injected fluid can also cause vein damage, especially if injected quickly. Always go slow and steady.

Injecting methadone will lessen the amount of time it will stay in the body, so withdrawal symptoms will usually come on earlier than usual. Some users state there is no rush from injecting methadone anyway and it is just a needle fixation. In any case, weigh up the high risks of injection carefully against the perceived benefit.

What you need to inject methadone

Use new, sterile equipment with each shot. Never share your equipment and make sure you have the following gear.
STERILE WATER

Ideally you should mix nine parts sterile water to one part of methadone syrup (please note these figures are based on done syrup in Australia only). The absolute minimum amount should be three parts water to methadone syrup.

However, your methadone may already be diluted by the chemist which can complicate the process.

SYRINGES -
Larger 10ml or 20ml barrels are best due to the amounts involved.

‘DRAWING UP’ NEEDLES
These are 19 and 21 guage needles, able to draw up methadone into the barrel.

BUTTERFLY NEEDLES
These are 25 and 23 guage surflo needle tips with plastic tubing, designed to cope with larger amounts of fluid, as the butterfly stays in your vein as you change barrels.

FILTERS
You can use cotton wool, cigarette filters or swabs with the alcohol rinsed out, but wheel filters are best, especially when the syrup has been in someone’s mouth. The 0.2 filter can remove the bacteria that cause bad hit and serious infections. You can also use butterflies to make the injection from multiple barrels easier.

SWABS
Use these to clean your equipment and injection sites. Wipe them in one direction, once only. Wait for the area to dry - it is the drying action that kills germs. Do NOT use to stop bleeding after an injection as the alcohol encourages bleeding.

SOAP
Clean your preparation areas and hands before and after using, to reduce the risks of blood borne diseases like hepatitis C and HIV.

TOURNIQUET
Make sure you clean this with soap before and after use and never share.

SAFE DISPOSAL BIN
This should come with your gear from the Needle Syringe Program. It is illegal not to safely dispose of used injecting equipment in a rigid-walled, puncture resistant, sealable container.

Mixing the mix

Clean your work area and hands with soapy water and get your gear ready.
You will need triple the amount of water for the amount of methadone e.g:
5mls of methadone syrup, 15mls water.

Mix the sterile water through the methadone by stirring or shaking.
Attach a ‘drawing up’ needle to the syringe. Draw up all the fluid into the syringe if possible. Repeat with more syringes as needed. Inject the fluid through filters until the fluid is clear. Use a new filter each time.
Prime your filter using sterile water only. Draw the clear fluid up into a syringe and connect a wheel filter to the syringe. Push the fluid through the filter into a new sterile syringe or a clean bowl.

Do not reuse any equipment, as it is now unclean from the unfiltered fluid. Draw the fluid into as many new syringes as required.

Connect the butterfly to the syringe and push the fluid through until you see the fluid entering the end of the needle.

Injecting the mix

Select a vein. Place a warm towel over the site to bring veins to the surface then swab the injection site.
Inject slowly and steadily. It is extremely dangerous to inject a large volume of fluid into a vein (try to use different sites in future to minimise damage).

Apply adhesive tape over the plastic ‘wings’ of the butterfly needle to secure it against your skin.
If you need to change barrels when you have filled more than one syringe with methadone, bend the tubing of the butterfly needle in half tightly at the end to which you connect the syringe, before you change barrels. This stops back flow.

Have another syringe with sterile water ready to inject after the methadone. This empties the tube, so you get all of the mix.

When you take the needle out of your arm, put pressure on the injection site for a couple of minutes to stop the bleeding. Using a swab will only make it bleed and bruise.

Wash your hands and place all used equipment in to the safe disposal bottle and seal. Dispose of the bottle responsibly.

This information from http://www.saferinjecting.net/injecting-methadone.htm

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excellent TEK. That's the safest why I've ever heard to shoot the syrup. Great find.
highly informative post

Last edited by Balzafire; 12-12-2010 at 15:40.
  #2  
Old 14-09-2010, 20:50
MichaelH MichaelH is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

part of swim's addiction is to the needle. that is very common with many users, they are not only addicted to the substance but to the ritual as well. in order to get 'well' swim has to inject whatever substance he has. using methadone pills is quite easier then with syrup, swim has never even seen syrup. does anyone have any suggestions for using pills for injection? swim really wants to get off other substances and onto a methadone regimen, but he really needs the injection ritual...

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For the extremely relevant question.
  #3  
Old 14-09-2010, 21:30
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

^^^ Many of our friends, cousins, family members and pets have been there, so swim understands the needle fixation. Thankfully, that is one part of addiction behavior that is easy enough to break.
As long as the addict is not in withdrawal, getting away from the needle fixation doesn't take too long in swims experience. It's just a matter of walking away from it while one is getting better with the current meds.
My cousin asked me to tell swim to hang in there. Change the toxic behaviors one at a time....
  #4  
Old 15-09-2010, 02:42
MichaelH MichaelH is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

swim thanks swibalzafire for all of his support. swim was very worried about that, but he has confidence in himself that he can do it . he also read a bit about the methadone and if done correctly one can inject it until he can ween himself off the needle.
  #5  
Old 17-09-2010, 22:27
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

In response to the rep:

Yes. Swim has been there, to the point that he has tracks that will be with him the rest of his life.
The needle fixation, thankfully, is psychological and not physical like the opiate addiction. Swim can't speak for anyone but himself of course, but once he made the decision, walking away from needles part of his addiction was a hell of a lot easier than it was to get off the opiates themselves. That's all he was saying.
  #6  
Old 11-12-2010, 23:07
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Quote:
Methadone syrup was never designed for injection. Each millilitre contains 5 mg of methadone hydrochloride
I just wanted to make sure that people pay attention and find out how strong the methadone syrup in their possession is, prior to making some kind of mistake.

I'm not sure where this TEK comes from, but I know the methadone syrup in Massachusetts is generally 10mg/1mL - TWICE the strength of the syrup listed in this TEK!! That could be a HUGE (fatal) problem!

Make certain that one knows the strength of the syrup they have, regardless of the method used to get it into the system (though oral is highly advised, since it's almost 100% bioavailable via the oral route & there tends not to be a rush when IV'd - esp if one is IVing syrup, as it has to be done so slowly).

~Kailey

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we need this as a permanent Reminder, the dosage can be very different- get informed first!
  #7  
Old 12-12-2010, 01:00
Smeg Smeg is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Red has never used IV opiates, but is very grateful for this thread. The information herein has the potential to be extremely valuable in his place of work.

Red has been chosen as (boody stupid job title coming up) "Drugs Champion" for inpatient work where he's employed in an acute psychiatric unit. His knowledge for this used to come from what he knew from the parts of London he grew up in, as well as some of his own personal experiences, and situations he has been in over the years. Some good. Some not so good.

To get back on topic he would like to mention that he'd known that patients of his had been IVeeing methadone, but didn't really have much of a clue about the safety of this practice.
He would just say something like,
"This stuff is meant to be swallowed, not fuckin' injected. It's too syruppy and cloggy for safe injection into veins. It can end up in shitty situations where you can fuck veins up and possibly die, or worse.."
Red would mention the or worse bit for the attention grabbing humour factor.

That was all he had then.

He's indebted to DF, and also this thread for providing him with more safety tips about the intravenous use of methadone.

Any PM's and further post would be received with gratitude because knowledge can mean power and lasting kindness in this instance.

Last edited by Smeg; 13-12-2010 at 07:51. Reason: Additional
  #8  
Old 12-12-2010, 05:33
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AW: Re: Injecting methadone

Quote:
Originally Posted by kailey_elise View Post
I just wanted to make sure that people pay attention and find out how strong the methadone syrup in their possession is, prior to making some kind of mistake.
This is a very important Point, all the Country's like the US, the UK or Germany use a different Dosage as well as a different Formula!

@ MichaelH,
against a Needle fixation only the Logic will work,
just remember always that the Bio-Availability of oral Methadone is
the same like IV., a oral ingestion works even longer- the Benefit is higher!
  #9  
Old 15-12-2010, 21:08
kebertxela kebertxela is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

SWIM does not "get off" IV'ing his methadone. He shot heroin for many years so he definitely has a separate addiction to needles. But, SWIM just does not feel that IV'ing methadone gives a good enough high to go through all the trouble. SWIM would much rather just double up orally if he wants to get "high."
  #10  
Old 16-12-2010, 00:29
Aberdonian Aberdonian is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Remember uk methadone is 1ml 1mg, so going by this if you injected 150mg you would need to inject 1500ml of water afterwards !which im sure would not be a healthy amount of fluid to pump into yourself-if i remember correctly uk methadone contains boric acid to irritate veins if it is injected, someone correct me if im wrong but im sure i remember my old doctor telling me this(could just be trying to scare me so i didnt do it though) i think anyone would be better off getting some amps of injectable methadone than injecting our uk linctus!
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Old 19-12-2010, 01:59
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AW: Injecting methadone

To intenational differences:
In Germany methadone syrup is usually 10mg/ml, so the method with dilution with water should work. Fact is that methadone in Germany comes to the pharmacy as pure powder and is prepared by the physician as a solution. There are several other substances in it as preserving agents which are damaging veins, and syrups to make it swallowable. Normally used is raspberry syrup, but there are pharmacies which prepare their methadone with honey.
Honey is never safe to inject because of the amount of pollen in it which is pure proteine and so can lead to fatal allergical reactions.
The best way might be to either using injectable methadone or to use pure levomethadone solution (L-Polamidon(R)) which is available in Germany.
Everyone injecting whatsoever should always think about the disinfection of injecting site and gear.
Stay safe and if in doubt - don't do it!
TBBW
  #12  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:52
ITR1 ITR1 is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

I had pets that were getting Methadone to Inject and they can say with out a doubt its a waste of time....though this thread is about Injecting regular Methadone for those that still have to have a turn on ,we get that we do as we saw are pet go through the same.
What are pet says though is to try and get over it.
If the Amps are pet got at 50 mls each did nothing well you know the rest.....
  #13  
Old 26-01-2011, 22:42
Topman Topman is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

I can say on my experience - injecting methadone is bad idea. Dont get me wrong, I like it a lot, especialy combined with cyclizine what gavi a great rush. Even only methadone gave me sutisfaction in dosage 150mg.

I must tell you that it will ruin your vains. Reason of it is because methadone is very corosive - (dont confuse that with ph acidity of solution. Reason is not tablet filler and other bidents in pill.

Harm reduction is made by put planty of water. It mus be miy min 1:20
So 100mg in 2ml of water and that is MINIMUM.
My vains are hard and chord like and I avoid iv methadone. Anyone who try and likes it would be very difficult to return of normal oral use.
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Old 26-01-2011, 23:06
catseye Gold member catseye is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aberdonian View Post
Remember uk methadone is 1ml 1mg, so going by this if you injected 150mg you would need to inject 1500ml of water afterwards !which im sure would not be a healthy amount of fluid to pump into yourself-if i remember correctly uk methadone contains boric acid to irritate veins if it is injected, someone correct me if im wrong but im sure i remember my old doctor telling me this(could just be trying to scare me so i didnt do it though) i think anyone would be better off getting some amps of injectable methadone than injecting our uk linctus!
yup, your doc was trying to scare you there's no boric acid in there. According to the Methadone Briefing the ingredients are:


Methadone Hydrochloride (HCL) BP 1mg/1mL (manufactured)
Glucose syrup
Green S (E142)
Tartrazine (E102)
Sunset Yellow (E110)
Parabens (preservative)
Ethanol
Trace chloroform water.

or if mixed locally by your chemist:

Methadone mixture 1mg/mL per 5mL
Methadone HCL BP 5mg
Colourings
Unpreserved syrup 2.5mLs
Double strength chloroform to 5mLs

Methadone mixture 1mg/mL sugar free
Methadone HCL BP 5mg
Concentrated chloroform water 0.1mL
Sorbitol syrup 2mLs
Distilled water to 5mLs

But swiy is absolutely right that injecting oral methadone is a Very Bad Idea because of the sugars and other additives (plus anything designed for oral consumption won't be sterile for injecting).

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accurate info well presented
  #15  
Old 02-02-2011, 09:55
&rew &rew is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

As Topman told too concentrated methadone, even when solution was prepared from brilliants like on picture below, damages vein. Neutral pH, no blood clotting during check, no pain while injecting, everything looks ok but vein just disappears, if solution too concentrated.

Not sure where is border but, for example, injecting at normal speed solution of 300 mg dissolved in 1 ml of water will make average vein disappear. Injecting same solution at slow speed will make thin vein disappear but with average vein everything will be ok.

Also methadone hydrochloride might be presented as pills with 300-500 mg of pure methadone in each :


P.S. TBH methadone injections even in mixture with BDs or AHs does not cost all this problems with veins. Pure methadone's rush is very washy, AH meds might color this rush a little, BDs might potent rush but anyway it is too far away from heroin or, for example, tramadol.
  #16  
Old 02-02-2011, 11:10
Topman Topman is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Quote:
Originally Posted by &rew View Post
As Topman told too concentrated methadone, even when solution was prepared from brilliants like on picture below, damages vein. Neutral pH, no blood clotting during check, no pain while injecting, everything looks ok but vein just disappears, if solution too concentrated.

Not sure where is border but, for example, injecting at normal speed solution of 300 mg dissolved in 1 ml of water will make average vein disappear. Injecting same solution at slow speed will make thin vein disappear but with average vein everything will be ok.

Also methadone hydrochloride might be presented as pills with 300-500 mg of pure methadone in each :


P.S. TBH methadone injections even in mixture with BDs or AHs does not cost all this problems with veins. Pure methadone's rush is very washy, AH meds might color this rush a little, BDs might potent rush but anyway it is too far away from heroin or, for example, tramadol.
Swiy is correct, Swim talked about pure usp powder not extracted from tablets. Anyway, its corrosive because of substance itself and not expicients in tablets. Solubility of methadone is around 120mg in 1 ml and that is 1,2:10 ratio, I recomeded minimum of 1:20. It will still be corrosive but less then concetrate.
what is TBH,BD or Ah?

Topman added 34 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

swim still can not edit post but must add something.
Diffrent meds for sc,im or iv use are prepared in diffrent ratios but common is 1:100. 10mg/1ml.Normaly addition of nacl in 0,9% is also in solution.

Many users of H in diffrent quantity use 1ml syringe.
Example; 200mg (pure substance of 10% is 20mg) in 1ml syringe is quite ok.That would be 1:50 on pure substance). Problem is other dilutans in Heroin. But heroin itself is not so corossive like methadone(lipophilic).
There is 2 types: lipophobic and lipophilic drugs. Lipohobic drugs like cocaine, methaphetamine are unsouble in souranding tissue if swiy miss a vein can come to abscess and necrosis.
Problem with methadone is to concetrated solution wich must be above max solubility in water cos its solidifyes on cooling or even in very concetrated solution when blood enter into syringe can induce participation.So if this concetrated solution is injected in tissue when misses of vein it can became infected and abscess is form.

Last edited by Topman; 02-02-2011 at 11:10. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #17  
Old 02-02-2011, 12:57
&rew &rew is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Well, SWIM cooked that colloid mixture a lot of times: heat, dissolve, cool, inject milk-like looking mixture. He missed veins a lot too including situations when WDs pressed him so hard that he can't spend 30 mins catching that vein that likes to hide on WDs. Not counting that it is pretty painful to inject IM that colloid mixture, nothing else happened with SWIM yet, and he haven't found any infection or, omg, necrosis yet. By the way, what infection could bring methadone on it's own, excluding infections on dirty needle?

Anyway, never mind, yes-yes, concentration is that devil in the details for crystal method.

&rew added 58 Minutes and 56 Seconds later...

Just to not let someone get it wrong. That milk-like colloid solution prepared from pure methadone hydrochloride crystals, not pills. If solution made from pills looks like milk, then it is very bad sign. There is big difference between methadone hydrochloride micro-crystals which is dissolve fast when get into blood stream and sand (or whatever used as filler in pills) micro-crystals which is keep staying solid in blood and might cause serious health problem.

Last edited by &rew; 02-02-2011 at 12:58. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #18  
Old 02-02-2011, 19:07
Topman Topman is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Bacteria can catch any substance after cook while filling syringe or after, or not all bacteria is killed by boiling solution. If is not prepared in steril enviroment injection site can be infected, simple as that.

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a right info,
  #19  
Old 15-02-2011, 19:26
Der Alte Kreiger Der Alte Kreiger is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

If my little dog, Dixie had had ANY idea she would live so long there are a lot of things she's done she wouldn't have but injecting Methadone dosn't seem to have had any ill effects.
She used to take here take home and draw off the liquid from the disolved pills, boil it down and fire it from a big set of works. Not really worth it except for the needle addiction thing, no real rush just a quicker onset.
Back in the 60s when they would prescribe 50 Dolphenes to anybody that walked in off the street (along with 50 Seconals!) she and all her friends would "cold shake" them and run them up as a matter of course. Pretty much a waste of time and it seemed that the oral dose had a greater effect.
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Old 17-02-2011, 03:53
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Re: Injecting methadone

My pony let a friend shoot her up with methadone syrup once, against pony's better judgment, and it's a decision she regrets to this day. IVing it is pointless, as there is no rush whatsoever, and it has a very high oral bioavailability, so if your pet needs to IV something, anything is better than meth syrup. Pony not only OD'ed, but her vein completely exploded, looks disgusting (this happened abut 6 months ago and the scar is still there), plus it was her cephalic vein-the huge one that's never supposed to fail and has like, no sensitivity, and when SWINY can't use that vein, it really sucks!
  #21  
Old 14-03-2011, 06:03
eggomyeggo eggomyeggo is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Swim has experienced an amazing heroin equivalent rush simply drinking his Methadone on an empty stomach watching TV and moving as little as possible. The rush from injecting Methadone would be just as good as Heroin in swim's opinion.
  #22  
Old 17-04-2011, 07:46
Topman Topman is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Ratio of potency in oral vs injection preparation in methadone is 1:2.
Bioavailability is around 85%. So in conclusion, injecting methadone is twice as potent versus oral. To compare that with morphine, ratio oral:injection is 1:2-3.
and bioavailibility is 40-80%, and just to add that heroin taken oraly serve no purpose bc low absorbtion. Bioavailability and potency in method of administration are two difrent things.

When speaking about comparation between heroin and methadone iv, euphoria can be found similar. Feeling/euphoria/rush/potency from methadone or heroin - somebody like it and somebody dont, its individual question. Obviosly, methadone is twice a potent when taken iv versus oral but rush/euphoria have similaraty with heroin but not the same, and its difficult to compare whom likes what.
Potency in articles is related to analgetic point and not to euphoria/rush -effect of opiates. Just if something is more potent then another, does not mean that feeling is more extent.

Last edited by Topman; 17-04-2011 at 08:17.
  #23  
Old 17-04-2011, 15:33
kailey_elise Gold member kailey_elise is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topman View Post
Ratio of potency in oral vs injection preparation in methadone is 1:2.
Bioavailability is around 85%. So in conclusion, injecting methadone is twice as potent versus oral. Obviosly, methadone is twice a potent when taken iv versus oral but rush/euphoria have similaraty with heroin but not the same, and its difficult to compare whom likes what.
I'm sorry, but do you have a link that states methadone is twice as potent via IV versus oral admin?

Particularly if methadone's bioavailability 85% (I've read 80-95% in various places), how could it then be "twice" as potent, since presumably IV admin would garner 100% bioavailability?

One of the reasons (oral) methadone is preferred for opioid maintenance is BECAUSE it's so potent via oral administration. Whereas with oral morphine you only get something like 30% of the dose once you process it, with oral methadone you pretty much get the whole dose available to the body.

I just don't understand. I think stating IV admin of methadone is 2X as potent as oral admin of methadone sounds very incorrect. Can someone help me understand that, or correct it?

~Kailey
  #24  
Old 17-04-2011, 16:24
TheBigBadWolf TheBigBadWolf is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

@Kailey:

Obviously these numbers come from:

Quote:
Oxford textbook of palliative medicine

Derek Doyle, Geoffrey Hanks, Nathan I. Cherny - 2005 - Health & Fitness -
Methadone Methadone is a synthetic opioid with an oral-to-parenteral potency ratio of 1 : 2 and an oral bioavailability greater than 85 per cent. ...
I don't fully understand this either, but I thi8nk the oral vs parenteral potency factor of 1:2 is due to first-pass metabolism.
How this goes along with oral bioavailability of >85% I'd like to understand.

Could any of the learnèd members of DF explain this?

TBBW
  #25  
Old 17-04-2011, 17:23
Topman Topman is offline
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Re: Injecting methadone

qute:
Quote:

article:
Bioavailabilities of rectal and oral methadone in healthy subjects

Times to maximum plasma methadone concentration (Tmax) were 0.04 (estimated from the first sample), 2.8, 1.3 and 1.4 hs for IV, oral, rectal (IV) and rectal (oral), respectively.
The corresponding maximum concentrations (Cmax) were 93, 31, 32 and 26 ng/ml.

and from wiki
In pharmacology, in order to determine absolute bioavailability of a drug, a pharmacokinetic study must be done to obtain a plasma drug concentration vs time plot for the drug after both intravenous (IV) and non-intravenous administration.
In pharmacology, relative bioavailability measures the bioavailability (estimated as the AUC) of a certain drug when compared with another formulation of the same drug, usually an established standard, or through administration via a different route. When the standard consists of intravenously administered drug, this is known as absolute bioavailability.
You have two types of bioavailibility - absolute and relative.
Then again, do not confuse all that with euphoria or rush. IMO every drug what is administred IV has some better "effects" then other routes of administration, (with few exceptions)

Last edited by Topman; 17-04-2011 at 17:52.

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