Dogs Can't Smell Pills, Right?

[daeron]

sorry man but you are then discussing about the completely wrong thing-the study you posted about meth shows that they smell what are they trained to smell.Different e.g. coke or heroin, or even mdma nowdays are used in training,especially after the afore mentioned debacle when some of the producers swiched to piperonal route.

so the study said that theyre trained to smell p2p,not meth.yes it is more volatile so it will be first dettected.on thing tho-the study shows WHAT CRAP TRAINING the LE provides for K9s, cause meth can be produced via RP/I2 method,HI,hypo,etc method so you gonna tell me that all the K9 can smell only p2p dope?
same for goes mdma. now if its true that all LE trains K9 to smell only piperonal/safrol than thats great news!

now i may be dumb or just high or just american or just obnoctious but i fail to see the point of your last post. if it is that canines are able to smell/dettect non volatiles, then that is utter bullshit. what the first study shows is that LE is inefficient in training K9. the other 2 talk about relevant issues nothing to do w the actual question are dogs able to dettect mdma.

[glorf]

what the first study shows (this was known - he was simply restating, but available quotes are hard to find), and especially the part of it that i quoted, is that dogs do not smell the salts, they smell the non-salt components. the amounts can be extremely small and are present in high purity samples.

it is not shitty training, the dogs learn to smell those volatile cpds because they cannot smell the salts. Customs knows this, so sees no point in using real cocaine, heroin, meth, X. the fake drugs keep paperwork and dog poisonings down and work just as well.

i am unable to decipher your last paragraph. put in another way, i said that drug salts are close enough to non-volatile that dogs are unable to smell it. how many times do i have to say this?

they are also unable to smell particles of the salts which might get sucked in.

with a quote from the abstract such as "...identify the signature odors that law enforcement-certified detector dogs alert to when searching for drugs, explosives, and humans...followed by completion of double-blind dog trials of the individual components in an attempt to isolate and understand the target compounds that dogs alert to", the article sounds like it would be highly relevant to the argument that you've started here. i'm sure that it will mention in passing somewhere that dogs cannot smell drug salts as well, this being the reason for their study.

[top]edit

well i shouldn't have been so sure, as it doesn't say so in those words, you have to read in to it. quotes of interest:

"None of the canines alerted to 5 g of the pharmaceutical grade methamphetamine"
"Field studies directly focusing on the signature odor of MDMA have shown that canines are alerting to approximately 10–100 mg of the piperonal compound that is found exclusively in MDMA tablets."

the full article: http://rapidshare.de/files/9022693/15124683.pdf.html

[scitech]

Hrmm, so taking the bitch-in-heat idea one step back, how about spraying the little old lady in front of you with some dilute acetic acid?

I can only imagine how many false positives these poor dogs get, what with acetic acid being in thousands of different food products

-sCi

[daeron]

> if it would be truly nonvolatile than dogs would be unable to smell it

which they are, which was the point of my post.

assuming that no one would say that mdma is non volatile, i assumed that you said that nonvolatiles can be dettected by dogs, errata..

have in mind the fact is that no one states that meth,mdma etc cannot be dettected by dogs. The dogs used were police trained dogs, they react to what theyre trained to react to. hence the badly trained dogs.

the K9 trained on STREET meth couldnt recognise the 5g of pharm meth. Obviously they responded to something else, ie p2p in that case.

also trained K9 were tested only on "pseudo mdma":

Canine field tests were run with a “pseudo” MDMA prepared from 1 g piperonal (Aldrich, Milwaukee, WI, USA) mixed with 9 g silica gel
(Whatman 60A, Clifton, NJ, USA) in a mortar and pestle and shaken for 30 min to insure a complete mixture. Results of a field tests performed with a “pseudo” MDMA containing 10% piperanol are summarized in Table 4. Up
to 80% of the dogs certified to detect MDMA alerted to the “pseudo” MDMA and of two dogs trained on the “pseudo” MDMA, one alerted to the 28 g of MDMA whereas the other did not. While these results represent a very limited data set they support the hypothesis that the dominant odor signature chemical in MDMA is piperanol.

this quote clearly states that the fault is the training.if one chooses to interpet it that way. the K9s were trained on street dope,street pills. so the local dogs used were mostly trained(inadvertly) to dettect piperonal and not mdma. others were trained on mdp2p(the rest of the %,which is to bee expected).
plus the weird comment that the rest of the dogs dettected meth but on the other hand 5g of pharm meth wasnt dettected by the dogs-WTF? and the fucking GC/MS is showing peaks for METH.HCl.
the lack of professionalism is just annoying, proving once more that the people working for the LE have fuckin IQs lower than the surrounding air temp(in C you weird americans)

thanks for the good read,btw

PS note their conclusion based on street dope trained dogs:

In addition
to providing useful information regarding synthetic routes,
these results provide another example where the target
compound, in this cases MDMA, is not available in the
headspace and more volatile components serve as odor
signature chemicals.

[Richard_smoker]

Sorry if this is retarded... (after all, I got the info off a cop-dog-training site), so fire away with the "YOU ARE RETARDED" comments if I'm way off base here!

but recently (like in last 2 weeks), I read in the DEA's website something about their concern for drugs being slipped past the dogs using activated charcoal...

not sure the methodology; but activated charcoal/carbon can be bought at the store--used to take the smell out of rank dorm rooms and locker rooms.

it's used in the ER because activated charcoal will bind and HOLD ONTO nearly anything that it comes in contact with--and thus will flush the toxins through your GI tract and out your butthole instead of getting into your bloodstream.

anyone heard of this application?

I'm thinking vaccum-sealing combined with layering (don't trust me on the charcoal thing--just something some coppers were discussing) and as always, being totally submerged in liquid doesn't hurt either.

on second thought. I wouldn't EVER risk something like this! what's the point! just use the damn mail.

[Nagognog2]

Activated carbon will indeed absorb vast amounts of vapors/liquids. It has been calculated that 1gm of act. carbon has the approx. area of a football field regards it's labyrinth porosity. Certainly worthy of researching. You retard. LOL.

[radiometer]

YOU'RE FUCKING RETARDED! Sorry, but you said "go ahead" and it's so fun! Good question, but regardless, I'd be a bit wary about using any method the DEA had a close eye out on for anything remotely naughty. Or at least about sharing it around on public forums!

[Richard_smoker]

I AM a RETARD!!

so, just to clarify... what ARE we allowed to discuss??

[radiometer]

^^ No you aren't but since you said "please do" it was impossible to resist!

[Nagognog2]

Phooey! Anybody who can read a grade-school text on basic science would know about the porosity of activated carbon. Or anyone who has an aquarium and some fish.

Uhto! He's right! We are talking about the geniuses who become Federal Agents! Shhhhhh!!!

[Richard_smoker]

yeah, no problems there! same geniuses would obviously have to know how to do 4 things:
1. navigate web
2. apply written material to real-life situations,
3. make assumptions from written materials on how & what to do in given situation (i.e. secondary assumptions; not just being told "if someone is walking with wide-stance like they have a large object shoved up thier ass (X), then you do (Y) because they might have a large object full of DOPE shoved up their asses"; &
4. must be able to read

so, shhh is right. keep everything on the DL from now on.

[Tony Blair]

Originally Posted by Unsolved

Yeah I was just curious of police dogs were capable of smelling e pills or any pills in general? they must give off some smell.

Yep.

Now I've answered this thread, and its bumped to the top, can we word anagramalise the title again? Thanks

[sonerer]

I've heard coffee masks the sent aswell... anyone like to do some research?

[a-SalviaLover]

Yes, I've heard that smugglers often put their materials in packs of Coffee, which masks the smell.

[hazeinmybong2]

Fill a tuperware with vasoline and put the pills in a baggie, bury the baggy in vasoline.

[ecstasy]

some scanning devices can see a composition of any object in your suitcase