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Research Chemicals Piperazines, Phenethylamines, Tryptamines & other designer drugs.

 
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  #1  
Old 19-04-2007, 05:48
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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DMAA (dimethylamylamine, geranamine) Experiences

Is this stuff a phenethylamine? If so, pls move the thread to the appropriate forum.

SWIM acquired a gram of the pure 1,3-dimethylamylamine, which is used in a bodybuilding product called "Amp" by Ergopharm. It is ostensibly a relatively unknown stimulant, discovered in the 1950s and abandoned at some point (others can elaborate if they want, I'm a bit sketchy on details).

Anyway, SWIM just finished an ill-advised extended binge on another substance, but couldn't help snorting a tiny line of this stuff when he received it -- probably around 10mg. He had just gotten out of bed and was still half asleep.

SWIM told me that snorting it burns a bit, but nothing serious. It seems to be "insufflatable" and this could be a recommended form of ingestion.

The stuff quickly woke SWIM up (expected), but what took him by surprise was an immediate and surprisingly strong euphoria, particularly for such a small dosage. At least in a small dose he noticed no rapid heartrate, sweating, jitters or other troublesome peripheral effects typical of some stimulants.

Given the euphoria, the stuff seems promising. Further research is called for, but it's going to be at least a week of downtime before SWIM indulges heavily in a stimulant again. Perhaps a few more tiny bumps to help his energy levels, but this won't indicate what higher doses would be like.

Posts from others who came across this stuff are welcomed, of course...
  #2  
Old 19-04-2007, 07:38
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM has also found it to be strong, but the peripheral side effects equally so. SWIM has tried 10 & 25 mg doses so far. SWIM has also had some unpleasant after-effects like headache and depression from it. Nothing serious, but could be with a binge. It is also a good pressor, meaning it raises blood pressure.
More to come over time, though SWIM is not in a place to experiment very much right now.
  #3  
Old 19-04-2007, 19:02
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper View Post
SWIM has also found it to be strong, but the peripheral side effects equally so.
Which ones? SWIM has no blood pressure cuff, but he noticed absolutely no increase in his heart rate from the stuff (propylhexedrine has his heart doing maybe 120/minute at times). Could be he just didn't dose high enough to get much in the way of peripheral sides.

The question on SWIM's mind is: Where does this stuff fall in terms of both potency and enjoyability, between say ephedrine and methamphetamine? ISO, propylhexedrine is in the middle and maybe 3/5 in the direction of amphetamines... from SWIM's very limited experimentation so far, he thinks this stuff is a good deal better. Not to mention it seems to lack the strong local vasoconstrictor effects of propylhexedrine, which is a very good thing.
  #4  
Old 19-04-2007, 22:43
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper View Post
This stuff primarily boosts norepi, and consequently has all the pressor effects without the increase in heartrate. The two do NOT necessarily go together. ?
That was the first thing Bongo noted from test-piloting 30mg orally. He says it had the same behind-the-eyes euphoria and pleasant lift of nor-epinephrine. And, for Bongo, no nasty peripheral stimulation. He figured it might be useful if one was sleepy and had another few hours to go while driving and caffeine had worn out it's welcome.

On the other paw, once it starts to wear away (3-ish hours), it caused drowsiness - even if being tired wasn't natural at the time.

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  #5  
Old 19-04-2007, 23:03
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Nag, are the two iupacs the same, and if the amine position is not specified, is it the terminal position in the molecule.
BTW, SWIM also noticed the drowsiness but certainly agrees there is a nice central activity, just not involving dopamine as far as SWIM can tell, other than maybe allowing more dopamine to accumulate due to increase in norepi levels. ?
  #6  
Old 19-04-2007, 23:06
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

The affects seems to be somewhat, similar to MDPV.
Does anyone want to guess to whether it would pass all drug tests and screenings?
  #7  
Old 19-04-2007, 23:32
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM does not find it similar to MDPV at all other than the stimulation. No real dopamine rush or euphoria and the physical side effects are greater. MDPV does not have much of a body load, even in higher doses (not until afterwards, that is...).
It should pass all drug tests, though don't take SWIMs word for it...
  #8  
Old 20-04-2007, 00:27
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

CH3CH2CH(CH3)CH2CH(NH2)CH3 (tricky lil' devil, ain't it?)

Methylhexaneamine. LD50 i.p. in mice - 185mg/kg. Therapeutic Catagory: Adrenergic. Patents 1944, 1945 to Lilly - trade name is/was: Forthane.

Last edited by Nagognog2; 20-04-2007 at 00:38.
  #9  
Old 20-04-2007, 00:45
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper View Post
SWIM does not find it similar to MDPV at all other than the stimulation. No real dopamine rush or euphoria and the physical side effects are greater.
SWIM doesn't find it similar to MDPV either, but in his opinion it has a definite dopaminergic component. And a stronger one than propylhexedrine, which also has some obvious effects on dopamine (in SWIM's not-so-humble opinion, which is based on long/extensive personal experience and research).

SWIM definitely got euphoria and very notable central stimulation with this stuff (significantly more-so than peripheral), which makes me wonder if maybe snapper is dosing his lab rats too high. Drugs that have some peripheral sides often tend to become peripherally overwhelming at higher doses, enough to mask the (much more subtle) central effects.

Anyway, it's not unusual for a substance to have wildly varying opinions, effects-wise. MDPV was particularly fascinating in that regard, everything from "it did almost nothing" to "I was awake and rolling for two weeks straight." Even scientists and pharmaceutical companies disagree quite a bit on this sort of thing... se la vie, I guess.

P.S. SWIM tells me that snorting a decent-sized line produces a really powerful rush, which could be interesting to a few intrepid souls, perhaps. It's also pretty painful on the nose and tastes/smells bad, so SWIY should be prepared if they're interested. It's not as bad as propylhexedrine, which is not only painful but literally un-snortable.

Last edited by Nicaine; 20-04-2007 at 02:43.
  #10  
Old 20-04-2007, 03:21
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM tried snorting and found it to be MUCH more effective than oral, and onset time. Burns but for very short time - probably better mode of admin, though could be much more prone to OD, which SWIM suspects is a realistic risk. SWIM has only tried a 5mg + 5mg dose so far, and finds the effect more pleasant than oral admin. Effect lasted about 4 hours with a rapid comedown. There was a nice euphoric rush for about an hour after insufflation. SWIM thinks that the bioavailablility off the product, or maybe the time of onset, is better when taken parenterally. SWIM thinks there may be more potential in combination with other chems, like maybe MDPV. SWIM plans higher dose trials first before venturing into combinations, but suspects an added dopamine component may really kick up the euphoria.
What mode of administration has SWINicaine's rats employed so far ? Perhaps oral is not optimal with this product ??
Snapper's rats dosed at 35mg tops so far orally, BTW, which is far from excessive.

Post Quality Evaluations:
informative
Thanks for all the input in this thread.

Last edited by snapper; 20-04-2007 at 08:05.
  #11  
Old 21-04-2007, 02:48
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper View Post
SWIM tried snorting and found it to be MUCH more effective than oral, and onset time.
SWIM agrees... onset can be measured in seconds via insufflation.
Quote:
Burns but for very short time - probably better mode of admin, though could be much more prone to OD, which SWIM suspects is a realistic risk. SWIM has only tried a 5mg + 5mg dose so far, and finds the effect more pleasant than oral admin. Effect lasted about 4 hours with a rapid comedown. There was a nice euphoric rush for about an hour after insufflation.
Definitely by far the better recreational method of use, if the pain can be dealt with. It does only burn for a short time, but (depending on individual pain sensitivity) some may find the subsequent effects not worth the burn.

And SWIM agrees again, there's a "rapid comedown" afterward. Worthy of being called a crash, and quite unpleasant an one at that. SWIM will probably try this stuff one more time, and if the comedown is as bad as the first he's throwing the rest away -- it was that nasty.
  #12  
Old 21-04-2007, 03:47
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicaine View Post
SWIM agrees... onset can be measured in seconds via insufflation.

Definitely by far the better recreational method of use, if the pain can be dealt with. It does only burn for a short time, but (depending on individual pain sensitivity) some may find the subsequent effects not worth the burn.

And SWIM agrees again, there's a "rapid comedown" afterward. Worthy of being called a crash, and quite unpleasant an one at that. SWIM will probably try this stuff one more time, and if the comedown is as bad as the first he's throwing the rest away -- it was that nasty.
SWIM wonders if anyone has tried first dissolving the substance in water. Today SWIM put 50mg of it in 10ml of water and proceeded to use an atomizing syringe to snort it up his nose. No burning whatsoever. He certainly noticed effects but they don't seem as extreme as what has been said here. Is this a good method or should SWIM stick to eating it?
  #13  
Old 21-04-2007, 07:21
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broshious View Post
SWIM wonders if anyone has tried first dissolving the substance in water. Today SWIM put 50mg of it in 10ml of water and proceeded to use an atomizing syringe to snort it up his nose. No burning whatsoever. He certainly noticed effects but they don't seem as extreme as what has been said here. Is this a good method or should SWIM stick to eating it?
Depends what SWIY means by 'good'... if it works well and doesn't burn too much, go for it... SWIM definitely prefers that method with certain substances. Making the solution stronger (i.e. more than 50ml/10ml) should result in stronger effects for the given amount sniffed, but may also burn more.
  #14  
Old 21-04-2007, 10:36
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

somebody tried sub-lingual route? may be just a little more faster&effective than oral but it may help.


I was worried about comedown(as with most stimulants) how you rate it? strong,depressing,managble long lasting, crash, hyperletargia, aftrerglow(when monkey is not letargic but feels residual enjoyable stimulation effects for a certain time)...
  #15  
Old 21-04-2007, 10:36
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM really likes the short duration of action and is finding this particular chem more inviting as time goes on. SWIM feels that the effect of a solid dose of MDPV is too distracting - SWIM's mind becomes very obsessive and self-indulgent. With 1,3- dimethylamylamine, SWIM is not distracted and can focus on less interesting tasks. SWIM finds that the body load SWIM got from this the first time around is not repeatable and SWIM has had no problems with repeated dosing except the usual stimulant sides. SWIM is liking the insufflation technique and will probably make an atomizer. SWIM has also noted that 1,3- dimethylamylamine raises SWIM's BP more than other stimulants, bu not heartrate and no pupil dilation.
SWIM is unsure as to the receptor system this product is operating in, but SWIM is feeling good while using. The effect is different than MDPV and does not share many of the more euphoric qualities, but does make SWIM upbeat, productive and does not keep SWIM up all night. This seems to subjectively be very close to the special component of AMP. SWIM hopes it will stay around for a while and that no one does anything stupid with it...
Also, it mixes well with kratom at lowish doses of both..
  #16  
Old 21-04-2007, 11:37
Nicaine Nicaine is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper View Post
SWIM feels that the effect of a solid dose of MDPV is too distracting - SWIM's mind becomes very obsessive and self-indulgent. With 1,3- dimethylamylamine, SWIM is not distracted and can focus on less interesting tasks.
Perhaps a mix of this and a straight dopamine reuptake inhibitor like MDPV (or (R)-(+)-2- (Diphenyl hydroxymethyl) pyrrolidine, althought I think it isn't as potent an inhibitor) would make an amazing mix -- possibly VERY close to the feel of methamphetamine. Whether that's a 'good thing' or not is up to the individual to decide...

P.S. raised blood pressure without faster heart rate is certainly safer than both (which is really heart attack country, as the heart is both pumping harder AND faster than normal, i.e. working its meaty little arse off).

Last edited by Nicaine; 21-04-2007 at 11:44.
  #17  
Old 23-04-2007, 14:45
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

has anyone tried smoking this substance, is it an efficient route of administration? and when ordered in gram incriments what salt form does it usually come in?
  #18  
Old 23-04-2007, 23:50
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM agrees with the euphoria, though it is diffucult to reconcile with the data available on the pharmacology of this. Maybe this data is deliberately skewed to help market it as a decongestant like oxymetazoline or SWINicaines beloved propyl-...
Certainly has potential, and is the best stim available legally to get things done without being distracted at low to moderate oral doses...
  #19  
Old 24-04-2007, 05:57
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Orally - 25 - 30mg causes a nice stimulant effect for about 3 hours, and down by 4 hours with some tiredness, David. Nicaine is our pet speed-freak who would have his Gazelle snort it or squirt it up it's anus. 25 - 30mg oral is pleasant and harmless. Last report from Bongo - my Lab Ape.

Read other reports. At this level and route - non-addictive.
  #20  
Old 26-04-2007, 17:38
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

By most accounts, it's a forgetable experience with very little to recommend it.
  #21  
Old 27-04-2007, 05:31
snapper Gold member snapper is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM actually gets a nice rush when insufflated at a low dose (5-10mg) but not for very long and not particularly memorable - oral dose works as an adjunct to coffee for productivity enhancement, but not really as a recreational stimulant (~30mg). SWIM does not know about vaporization or plugging. Insufflation is painful but the burn only lasts a minute or so - not like snorting a 2CX or other caustic powders (OUCH!). However, SWIM does not advocate insufflation since it could be dangerous. Don't be stupid like SWIM ...
SWIM has not had the drowsy after-effects reported by Nag's primate, though SWIM gets that somewhat randomly from stimulants in general. SWIM has also not noticed any particular mood changes or hangover after use so far.
However, overall SWIM agrees with Nag's primate - mostly a dud but good as an addition to SWIM's morning coffee or a booster when tired from long hours awake. Hopefully it at least motivated bongo to groom some more fleas out of his fur !
  #22  
Old 27-04-2007, 18:13
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM had acquired a gram of this "geranium". but when insulflated around 10mg no effects came on immediately but after a half hour or so swim felt somewhat different but not the feeling usually acquired from stimulants. the next day 20+mg was insulflated and the same thing happened with no euphoria just a slightly different body feeling. should swim up his dose, or try orally?
  #23  
Old 27-04-2007, 19:35
Nagognog2 Nagognog2 is offline
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

Further experiments are not planned. One has a feeling that trying to ramp-up an adrenergic compound such as this would likely do nothing better than cause a pounding headache. Useful, though limited, for waking one up on a long drive or something.
  #24  
Old 27-04-2007, 20:29
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

as far as i can tell i'd have to agree with nagognog
  #25  
Old 01-05-2007, 22:30
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Re: 1,3-dimethylamylamine

SWIM thinks that it is best left as a mild stimulant that combines with caffeine well but not so far with other stimulants (increases peripheral side effects). It is also useful for weight loss and does have a mild buzz to it. In higher doses, it is unpleasant (rapid heart rate, elevated bp, etc) and does not have that dopamine rush found with drugs like MDPV, meth, etc. SWIM does not want to push the dose higher than about 30 mg for fear of worsening side effects. SWIM's pretty much done with this substance and will finish it up in low doses as an adjunct to SWIM's morning coffee..
let the tread continue...

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dimethylamylamine, dimethylamylamine experiences, dmaa, dmaa experiences, geranamine, geranamine experiences, methylhexanamine, methylhexanamine experiences, research chemicals, stimulant research chemicals

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