How safe is ordering...

[joechip666]

hypothetical scenario?



SWIM would very much like to order some*RC's. (SWIM lives in the United States.) The only thing that SWIM is worried about is being raided for purchasing these chemicals. This would be completely unacceptable for SWIM.


Considering the above facts as a given, can SWIM safely order RC's without having to worry about his house being raided?


I understand that no one here can answer this question with certainty, but I would like to know what the opinions of various members are concerning this.


Thank You.Edited by: nanobrain

[Pinkavvy]

People dream of ordering chems from international sources into the states all the time. It's not happened yet, however you could always be the first.

Also, many providers, if asked, will ship in a method that can be delivered to a (anonymous) po box.

[joechip666]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

People dream of ordering chems from international sources into the states all the time. It's not happened yet, however you could always be the first.

I posted a similiar question on another discussion board to get a broad perspective on the topic. Since I've never seen a post on any discussion board about somebody actually getting raided for ordering non-scheduled RC's, I was surprised by the response I received from a veteran member of this other board.

"I know about dozens of cases with a large variety of substances...
The larger an order is, the more you´re in danger to be raided without any warning."
Dozens????

Am I just oblivious to this?

Does anyone here know of even a single case of this happening? Or is this person just full of it?

[illuminati boy]

If one were busted under the Analog Act… one might be able to make a Due Process claim or other possible Constitutional argument… as the wording of the Act appears to have possibly changed from what was actually approved by the Legislative process and what appears in the Registrar… One wonders why April Curtis is not making such an argument at this time or planning on it in the near future… it could be that that the law may be invalid do to improper amendment of its wording. Specifically the dropping of the word AND. Because there is a big legal difference between a 1 & either 2 or 3 requirement, and a 1 & 2 & 3 requirement.

But one is not really an American Legal Scholar… so who knows…

As for ordering… hypothetically personal letters almost never get searched… and hypothetically the US Post Office is usually busiest with these the week before Mother’s Day or in the weeks before Christmas when everyone is sending cards to mommy dearest or pictures of their dog with fake reindeer antlers… would hypothetically guess that a letter that appeared to be a Hallmark card sent during this time would go through with no problems what so ever…

But one is not really an American Postal Scholar… so who knows…

I B

[radiometer]

Originally Posted by illuminati boy

One wonders why April Curtis is not making such an argument at this time or planning on it in the near future…

The last I heard, unlike her colleagues, Curtis got some kind of slap on the wrist, for what reason I don't know. Could you point to links for the most recently available court documents? Thanks in advance, I like to know whatever I can regarding WebTryp.

[illuminati boy]

Originally Posted by radiometer

The last I heard, unlike her colleagues, Curtis got some kind of slap on the wrist, for what reason I don't know. Could you point to links for the most recently available court documents?

^Do you have a source for that information? One has seen the initial filings of the indictments for Curtis and what the complaint alleges… but one has heard nothing since, so your information may be more up to date. One simply used her name as pretty much the rest of the vendors have already had sentences handed down. One of them initially received a 400 year + sentence (David Linder). In the complaints and press releases, the government alleged that Curtis was openly distributing for human consumption… so it would be interesting to hear how she wriggled out of the noose.

Getting back on topic, one is not aware of any US prosecutions for purchase and, whatever else you might think of it, the July 05 Wired article reported no known US purchaser arrests at that time. Still a large purchase might change your profile from 'probably a purchaser' to 'probably a distributer.'

I B

[narcolepticpug]

back a few years ago i "thought about" purchasing RCs quite a few times from the web within the USA. and had no troubles. now a days i cant find any sites to "think about" ordering them

[narcolepticpug]

I used to "Dream about" ordering from ACS. and they were very good.....
i wonder what ever happend to them.

[pissdrunkparker]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

People dream of ordering chems from international sources into the states all the time. It's not happened yet, however you could always be the first.

SWIM knows it has happened!

[23smooches]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

Also, many providers, if asked, will ship in a method that can be delivered to a (anonymous) po box.

Is there really such a thing? SWIM thought that in order to open a PO Box it is required that you give them your home address, and your identity must also be verified with two forms of ID and a legal form i.e. Car Insurance slips or other official papers from the DMV. Where can one SWIM hypothetically acquire said box?

[nanobrain]

no sources, no source discussions.

upon reading a cogent PM from the OP i decided to let the thread live for now.Edited by: nanobrain

[IHrtHalucingens]

What if the company you were ordering from was inside the US. Is the risk just as high? And even if u were to get a PO box dont you need to register it with your name being verified by your ID? I dont know ive never gotte na PO box but i would imagine thats how it works...

[joechip666]

Originally Posted by IHrtHalucingens

What if the company you were ordering from was inside the US. Is the risk just as high?

If someone were to order from within the United States, the risks would be different.


Risks ordering outside the United States:


- Customscould misidentify the substance and think that something illegal was being ordered.


- Customs could correctly identify the substance and decide that it is an analogue.


- DEA could schedule the substance while it is in transit. When customs received it, it actually would be an illegal substance.


Risks orderinginside the United States:


- See Operation Web Tryp. A fewcustomers did get visits from the DEA as a result of this. This also, directly or indirectly, closed down mostlegitimate domesticvendors.Edited by: joechip666

[snapper]

The risks are probably minimal since it is big effort to raid and prosecute
an end user for possession of a substance that is not specifically listed.
Those visited after webtryp were used as witnesses - I do not think that
any except suppliers were prosecuted. This is not a sure thing, but it is
probably not worth while to hit the end user unless there is some other
agenda, like a need for witnesses. Since if there are suppliers, they are
outside the US, the likelyhood of this is really slim. Also, the analog act
has yet to be invoked. I wouldn't worry about it too much..
The above of course applies only to chemicals not scheduled or listed in
the US. If they are, all bets are off and you are gambling with your
freedom.

SnapperEdited by: snapper

[Nagognog2]

I am sure the situation would/will change as soon as some money-grubbing pinhead floods some small town in Kansas with 2XY and little Johnny & Susie start seeing God outside of church on Sundays.


If you know anyone planning such, suggest they try plugging Drano.

[Alfa]

Raids in this type of situations have the tendency to provide extra and unexpected evidence like controlled substances, paraphernalia or grow rooms. I agree that the risks are not great, but still there. Customs has 100% checks every once in a while.

[enquirewithin]

People in the UK were visted by the police post Webtryp, specifically
for 2C-I, and charged. The same has happened in Ireland, or so I read.


Edited by: enquirewithin

[glogga]

DEA could schedule the substance while it is in transit. When customs received it, it actually would be an illegal substance.

I believe the DEA has to give at least a 30 day notice when emergency scheduling a substance.

[akcom]

If I'm not mistaken, it's even more than that. "People I Know" have had no problem ordering materials in the past (within a month).

[Benga]

SWIM has always wondered how much of the issues brought up in this discussion apply to other countries, especially in the more repressive ones of the european union for instance, ie what does happen when customs find that little vial of powder in your mail, even if it is "not scheduled". Do they just let it go through with a little "customs checked" tag ? Even if it's unscheduled, which means that they would have to analyse it first to check, what happens ? No luck in finding any answers anywhere so far, and I have trouble believing that they would let it pass just like that...

[astenu]

not sure about other countries but in the U.S it could be confiscated and at best you'll get a seizure notice in the mail. At worst they will do a "controlled delivery" and arrest you for possession of a controlled substance analog.

[joechip666]

Originally Posted by astenu

not sure about other countries but in the U.S it could be confiscated and at best you'll get a seizure notice in the mail. At worst they will do a "controlled delivery" and arrest you for possession of a controlled substance analog.

Does anyone know if the worst case scenario mentioned here has actually ever happened to anyone?

[a-SalviaLover]

I can't understand why couldn't these people leave us the ordinary people do with our lives what we want. Isn't there written in the constitution that all Americans are free? What is this control for? To whom are you an obstacle? Because of the bigger countries like yours, countries like mine have also made many substances illegal (luckily this doesn't apply for the RCs). But here in Bulgaria things are worse. You have mandatory minimum sentences. We just have a list and a sentence of 15 years. If you don't pay the judge enough, you can get 15 yrs for a single joint. Imagine a 13 year old kid being sentenced 15 years. I am very lucky that this law will chage soon when we enter the EU. It's just insane and it is made by someone who has no idea what are the drug problems of his country. And btw I think it's immoral to say that an ill person is a criminal because of his sickness. Judging an addicted person is like throwing in jail someone because he has cancer or AIDS for example.

Anyway, my questions were:

What can these people from the DEA do to you if they find a research chemical in you (which is not scheduled)?

Isn't the risk of being deceived, sending the money and not getting anythig, a high risk, too?

[joechip666]

Originally Posted by a-SalviaLover

Anyway, my questions were:

What can these people from the DEA do to you if they find a research chemical in you (which is not scheduled)?

Who knows? The analogue laws are vague. It would depend on the prosecutor, the judge, and the defense attorney.

Isn't the risk of being deceived, sending the money and not getting anythig, a high risk, too?

Yes, but the likelihood of something happening must be distinguished from the consequences. I.e. if someone were to get ripped off, they lose a (relatively) small amount of money. If someone were to be arrested, they lose their freedom.

[Silence_Inc]

if some dudette hypothetical would order something ... this digital information and the acces to it by higher authorities is what scares poeple nowadays, doesn't it?

edited for compliance w/being hypothetical.

thanks,
nano