Conscience Reality and Physical Reality

[1933]

Hi,
does only conscience reality exist or physical reality? beacuese I know for a fact that conscience reality exists. By conscience reality I mean the things that humans animals and plants can feel through their five senses. but maybe physical reality is suuch a different reality from conscience reality. there is no feeling in it. but if there is no feeling in it , does it exist? Do I really exist after I am dead. If someone sees my corpse does that mean I exist. Of course not, because I am not my body. So how can a rock or something exist. It has no feeling to it. All it is is what we see it to be. WHat fucking gives?

[Montgolfier]

But after you die, two people can see that same rock, pick it up and pass it between them, so the rock continues to exist.


But what if every last form of inteligent life was wiped from the face of the earth - would the rock exist then?





hmmmmm!

[Caliform]

I think I would have to disagree here - if there is no such thing as reality, then cut down senses and see what remains? Thoughts. So the only tangible thing is a thought. Isn't that remarkable.

On a side note, toast .

[Alfa]

If we take a drug, we are taking the effects into our consciousness. Since we are all different, drugs affect us equally different. You could say the mix between the character of the drug and the character of the person gives the personal experience of the drugs effects. The same goes for reality. Our differing character lets each of us percieve reality in our own personal way. And reality as is? Is that solid, unvariable? So far science has not shown me one unvariable reality. But that may just be me...

[ambrosius]

I don't think it's just you. I remember reading that the only physical law that doesn't make sense in quantum physics is the law of gravity.

It would, however, make sense if the universe was two dimensional. I tried to figure that one out and then realized I probably shouldn't bother.

If 1/3 is .3 repeated...and 3/3 is 1, then .9 repeated is 1. Seems like an error to me. Science has taught us how to manipulate the reality we percieve, but has taught us absolutely nothing about what is actually around us.

[Silence_Inc]

i think that the conscience reality and the physcial reality you are thinking about - is the same. conscience = five senses reality -- we only can use the 5 senses to experience the physical reality (atoms of texture, smell, collor ...) ... but than we come to the point of our mind ... and there the shit happens: same texture diffrent people feeling it: diffrent ways of experiencing this texture: ooh it feels soft - no it feels like a bunny - no it feels like this and that ... you see ... so physical reality is experienced through our senses ... and than transformed into a virtual story or idea in our mind ... and we all have diffrent minds so we all have our stories ...

what i believ drugs do is fucking up the systems and helping them erase (somtimes even completely) ... so when you feel something - you FEEL it ... and you don't interpret it as a concept. you have stopped transforming your experience of the physical world - thus - experiencing reality.

offcourse a rock exists - feel it, smell it, throw it awya and pick it back up again - a rock exists even more than I exist

[Alfa]

Originally Posted by Silence_Inc

what i believ drugs do is fucking up the systems and helping them erase (somtimes even completely) ... so when you feel something - you FEEL it ... and you don't interpret it as a concept. you have stopped transforming your experience of the physical world - thus - experiencing reality.

I suspect the same. To percieve reality cognition filters & sorts it to a format we can understand without going mad. Cognition adds or alters all dimensions we know, including time & form. When expose your psyche to cetrain drugs, psychedelics in particular remove those filters to an extent (depending on drug and dose), thus showing you more reality.

BTW: you will be a rock one day. At least your body will. Might take a while though.

[Caliform]

I agree with Alfa fully . Reality is very relative if you place it in the boundaryless state of heavy psychedelic expirience. You may expirience molecular collective intelligence, for all you feel. Yet it can also give you many more non-fictional insights on reality and can reaffirm your view on reality and possibly, sanity.

[falsereality]

Originally Posted by ambrosius

If 1/3 is .3 repeated...and 3/3 is 1, then .9 repeated is 1. Seems like an error to me. Science has taught us how to manipulate the reality we percieve, but has taught us absolutely nothing about what is actually around us.

that is a great example showing a flaw in math, but decimals are always sketchy; do u know any other ones?

anyway
ive recently just tried lsd a couple times and ive been thinking about this topic alot lately, ive concluded that wut we know as reality is limited to wut our senses tell us. an example ive considered to more easily understand that we're limited, is how other animals view reality different than us: snakes sense heat as there main sense, theres no way we can understand what they see, and i dont know for sure if its like thermal goggles, because for us to understand seeing heat it needs to be transfered to light/colors, and i dont think that heat beeing red is really what heat would be like to a snake, but of course im not sure. and since (naturally) we cant "see" by seeing heat, thats one limit to our perseption on reality, and how many others limit us?

chees - i think that a reality would exist even if theres nothing around to perseve it. if a tree fell and no one is around, it still will make a reaction, though it wont be "heared"

[gitst0opid]

Alot of you are saying we have five senses. But there is actually 7 senses. The other two is the Vestibular sense and the Proprioception sense. The Vestibular sense allows us to know whether up or down, it's our sense of balance. The Proprioception( perception of body awareness), eg: touching your nose with your eyes closed. Just thought I'd clear it up.

[xx3]

All "realities" exists. You talk about a thing, so it IS.
Only one thing, what is "exist"?

When one asks a question such as: "Is there a physical reality?",
one must first understand the question. So we must agree what is
the "Is there..", and what is "..a physical..", and then finally, what
is meant with "...reality".

There is a famous question in philosophy, releted to the posted:
"What is the nature of an object uppon itself?"

We are talking of things that are thiner than air. Is there a substance
uppon itself? An ultimate reality? Seed of immortality?

Or in taoism, if I remember, there is a "riddle":
"What sound makes a falling tree, where there is noone to hear it?"

We can go on and say that the tree needs a listening ear and an
observing eye for it's very "existence". If there is no observer, we
cannot even talk about the observable. The object becomes "real",
comes into existence, only when "seen", that is enlightened with
consciousness. It's still all in the head, but it IS. The mind.

[falsereality]

Originally Posted by gitst0opid

Alot of you are saying we have five senses. But there is actually 7 senses. The other two is the Vestibular sense and the Proprioception sense. The Vestibular sense allows us to know whether up or down, it's our sense of balance. The Proprioception( perception of body awareness), eg: touching your nose with your eyes closed. Just thought I'd clear it up.

i dont know if these would count, they defenately r senses. but touch, smell, taste, sight, hearing; i think r like basic senses. if ur gonna say that ur sense of balance and "body awareness" should count in ur five senses, than why not add depth perception, memory (which u may rely on in the dark in familar places), the ablility to estimate time - w/o a watch, etc...

ultimate reality is something i pondered on vastly, i dont know y i didnt mention this before. but wut would ultimate reality "look" like? like to look at the world in all senses possible - including senses that dont exist. by that i mean things that exist that cant be sensed by any consiousness, or beings we know exist in that case.
then arises the question of different dimensions...
we can image dimension 1 and 2 since they can be represented easily. and many say that time is the 4th dimension, but i just dont feel that time is a physical dimension like length width and depth. maybe 3d is the greatest dimension, it isnt limited like 1 and 2 after all.

[gitst0opid]

Originally Posted by falsereality

i dont know if these would count, they defenately r senses. but touch, smell, taste, sight, hearing; i think r like basic senses. if ur gonna say that ur sense of balance and "body awareness" should count in ur five senses, than why not add depth perception, memory (which u may rely on in the dark in familar places), the ablility to estimate time - w/o a watch, etc...

Yeah, good point. I don't really know, it's just that a lot of pyschology books i read said those are the "main seven."

[xx3]

I think counting how many senses humans have is almost irrelevant to the
problem of describing the (true) world. It's all input and therefore someone
will say one sense does it for this model. Or we can say there are 91723137928373,
just for the science of classifying senses.

But for the matter of the real truth...
Ultimate reality is an abstract concept. That means that ultimate reality is
what I say it is, when the definition satisfies me. But then... which theory
will make me content?

Because I have found, that everything could be proven wrong, if only one
meditates enough on it. There is no such thing as the ulimate or grand-unification theory of everything.

As far the theories go, only practical things survive the challenge.
For example, if I am hungry, what I do? I eat. That's all and it works.

Abstract theories cannot be right, because their challenge is infinite: to
give us the abstract truth - the absolute or ultimate. And obviously, it's
failure every time. (not useless - abstract thinking 's great exercise)

[falsereality]

ya i realize that the number of senses humans have is a bit off the topic of ultimate reality. but theres really no way of trying to understanding an "ultimate reality model" without an input. is there? of course no ones going to come up with an answer, but im open for ideas.

i dont really understand ur reasoning of saying abstact concepts are wut u say they are. of course theres no answer but theres alway a theory, i dont look at a theory as being "right" i look at it as a possibility.

xx3 - Because I have found, that everything could be proven wrong, if only one meditates enough on it. There is no such thing as the ulimate or grand-unification theory of everything.

i assume u apply proof from meditating only to abstract ideas - which would be absurd for it to be considered right in the first place. because say u want to prove something like - recycling paper wrong (u did say everything), sure u might convinse ur self that its impossible, but go to someone who personally recycles paper, and he can take u and show you that in fact u cant possibly prove him wrong
maybe i completely missed ur point?

[hazeinmybong2]

By conscience reality I mean the things that humans animals and plants can feel through their five senses.

Thanks I forgot how many senses plants have haha. Just messin with ya. I understand what you are saying though. Are we a figment of reality or is reality a figment of our imaginations. Are we one high conciousness experiencing itself subjectively, or have I been listening to too much bill hicks?

[melt_000]

consciousness is made from the relationships between physical objects. therefore all objects have consciousness in a way, but what creates high consciousness is when matter is acting in a highly complex system such as the human brain.

[Jatelka]

Reality is for people who can't handle drugs