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Opiates & Opioids Opiates & Opioids.

 
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  #1  
Old 25-07-2010, 07:09
Picass035 Picass035 is offline
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100% LEGAL opioids!!!

SWIM has done some research, and has come up with quite a few opioids that are LEGAL worldwide. Here are SWIM's findings:

1) W-18 (aka: 1-(4-Nitrophenylethyl)piperidylidene-2-(4-chlorophenyl)sulfonamide) <--10,000x more potent than morphine

2)
BDPC, Bromadol (aka: 4-(p-Bromophenyl)-4-(dimethylamino)-1-phenethylcyclohexanol) <-- also around 10,000x more potent than morphine

3) Herkinorin (Salvinorin A analog reported to be around 100 times more potent than morphine)


4) O-Desmethyl-Tramadol (a lot of information already exists on this compound so no need to go into details.)

So why aren't we seeing these compounds around? One would think that being legal, and at their super high potency that dealers would be all over them as they could be legally purchased in bulk from companies in China for example for super-cheap (where 99.9% of all RCs come from anyways).

Question is, actually how good are these compounds since AFAIK, no one has even heard of them? hopefully they'll be available in the RC scene soon. And hopefully they will come pre-cut. If it not cut, a mere microscopic particle that falls on your skin would kill you (just like with fentanyl which is only 100x more potent in comparison. We're talking about compounds 100x more potent than fentanyl itself here = super dangerous).

SS
  #2  
Old 25-07-2010, 07:16
Balzafire Balzafire is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman_Surgeon View Post

So why aren't we seeing these compounds around? One would think that being legal, and at their super high potency that dealers would be all over them as they could be legally purchased in bulk from companies in China for example for super-cheap (where 99.9% of all RCs come from anyways).

Question is, actually how good are these compounds since AFAIK, no one has even heard of them? hopefully they'll be available in the RC scene soon. And hopefully they will come pre-cut. If it not cut, a mere microscopic particle that falls on your skin would kill you (just like with fentanyl which is only 100x more potent in comparison. We're talking about compounds 100x more potent than fentanyl itself here = super dangerous).

SS
Swim thinks anyone in their right mind would never sell these drugs to anyone, much less take them. Call swim a sissy..... but he likes this whole sucking in air and having a heartbeat thing...
  #3  
Old 25-07-2010, 08:05
divinemomentsoftruth divinemomentsoftruth is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

The average drug user would have no idea how to use these compounds. Fentanyl itself has caused so many deaths because it was sold as heroin or abused from the patch. Cutting these substances, especially something that's 10,000 times more powerful than morphine won't make it much safer for an ill-informed user or anyone for that matter.
  #4  
Old 25-07-2010, 22:03
RaverHippie RaverHippie is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

O-desmethyl-tramadol has been outlawed in a few places I believe. Do a search for "Krypton" Kratom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman_Surgeon View Post
And hopefully they will come pre-cut. If it not cut, a mere microscopic particle that falls on your skin would kill you (just like with fentanyl which is only 100x more potent in comparison. We're talking about compounds 100x more potent than fentanyl itself here = super dangerous).
This wishful thinking involved here is overwhelming. "Please chinese chemical supplier, make me a difficult to synthesize product and then package it in a way that won't hurt me"
  #5  
Old 25-07-2010, 22:08
tsm554 tsm554 is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

best way to get very small amounts of a substance is to dissolve a known amount in a large amount of water, mix well then measure out the right amount of water
  #6  
Old 25-07-2010, 22:20
Pieces Mended Pieces Mended is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

SWIM really doesn't know how you cut something like this if you were going to try it yourself or as a dealer. You'd be taking a quantity the size of an aspirin tablet and producing tens of thousands of doses from that? Geezus... search and read how many users incorrectly measured phenazepam and woke up 2 days later. People can't get that correct and the dosage is actually easy to get correct with a $20 Chinese mg scale

There would be no possible way to cut these with other solids. They would have to be dissolved in liquid in an extremely thorough manner, then packaged as individual doses. It is possible to do all of this SWIM is sure- but he is also pretty sure it would take equipment that only drug manufacturers have the ability to purchase. By the time all was said and done, the cost would be insane and governments would outlaw the substances as soon as the first death (sometime around day 2 of availability) took place.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Just a heads up but a cheap set of scales will NOT safely measure phenazepam, you need a 0.0001g scale and in order to be atall accurate they MUST be high quality (and very expensive)

Last edited by Jatelka; 26-07-2010 at 15:13.
  #7  
Old 25-07-2010, 22:24
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsm554 View Post
best way to get very small amounts of a substance is to dissolve a known amount in a large amount of water, mix well then measure out the right amount of water
Even with volumetric measurement, some of these compounds are so potent that there'd be substantial room for error. The idea of these being manufactured by clandestine labs makes it all the more worrying because of the variability from batch to batch due to lack of quality control. At least pharmaceutical fentanyl is consistently pure. If someone went from a set dose of a 10% pure batch to using the same dose of a 70% pure batch, that could be a fatal overdose in the making.

I'd have to agree with some of the other posters here that certain substances cannot be safely distributed for self-administration, and these fall into that category. The questionable benefits (are there any?) of super potent opioids are outweighed by the massive risks in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman_Surgeon
3) Herkinorin (Salvinorin A analog reported to be around 100 times more potent than morphine)
Not quite sure this is accurate. I suspect what you meant to say is that Herkinorin has around 100x greater -opioid receptor binding affinity than Salvinorin A rather than morphine.
  #8  
Old 25-07-2010, 23:55
sterling77 Iridium member sterling77 is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

A lot of these novel opiates aren't even too much fun. Many of them have a lot of delta activity which makes them a bit dissociative. On top of that, the super potent opiates tend to not be as euphoric even if they are purely mu agonists.
  #9  
Old 26-07-2010, 00:47
xenos xenos is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

I think biggest example of wishful thinking in this thread is the assumption that these chemicals aren't already on the "streets" sold as heroin or in clandestine-lab-made pharmaceutical pain killers. Many dealers that know about these chemicals would probably know how to cut them and/or press them. Just pointing out the possibility, like the OP said, why not? At least in the money-making perspective. If its cut "correctly", it would not create more overdoses theoretically.
  #10  
Old 26-07-2010, 01:02
Phenoxide Phenoxide is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Is there any evidence from a forensic analysis or post-mortem toxicology report to suggest that such compounds have been found in street heroin? This is certainly the case for fentanyl analogues, but I do not recall ever seeing anything to suggest the same is true of these compounds.

If there is evidence of this, I'd be very interested to see it as this would be most concerning. If there is no evidence, let's not start scaremongering just because something is not outside the realms of possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenos View Post
If its cut "correctly", it would not create more overdoses theoretically.
Therein lies the problem. Cutting correctly with super potent compounds is challenging, especially if done as part of mass manufacture. It requires accurate and precise instrumentation, which it is fair to say is beyond the kit available to the typical underground lab or street level dealer. One only needs to look at deaths associated with alpha-methylfentanyl (China White) to see that theory does not always hold up in practice.

Additionally, price is not necessarily the sole driving force of the market. Safety margins are a consideration, both for manufacturers and consumers. For example, 2C-B is far more widely distributed that its potent cousins DOB and bromo-dragonFLY because it is easier to dose, safer, and in many people's opinions, a more pleasant experience. Just because something is cheaper to manufacture by the kilo doesn't necessarily make it an attractive proposition and highly profitable product.

Last edited by Phenoxide; 26-07-2010 at 01:08. Reason: Added 2C-B vs. DOB comparison
  #11  
Old 26-07-2010, 02:08
Picass035 Picass035 is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

As has been stated if "cut" correctly, it should be safe.

SWIM's point though, is that the first two compounds are 100% LEGAL, which makes it very attractive for many (including SWIM).

Oh and <Phenoxide> is quite right regarding "Herkinorin". It's not 100x more potent than morphine, just has 100x more affinity for the mu receptor in comparison. SWIM isn't really sure how potent this compound is. Would be interesting to find out though...

SS

Spaceman_Surgeon added 20 Minutes and 4 Seconds later...

Plus, SWIM felt this was important, in China, they use Dihydroetorphine for opiate maintenance over bupe/methadone like in the States. This compound can be up to 12,000x the potency of morphine depending on metabolism and a few other factors as well. Minimum potency is 1,000x the strength of morphine (according to Wiki at least).

Last edited by Picass035; 26-07-2010 at 02:08. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #12  
Old 26-07-2010, 02:57
sterling77 Iridium member sterling77 is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

People who knew what they were doing with fentanyl still killed many people while cutting it. With some of these compounds it's a whole different situation. Some are so potent that thousands have died from it being sold as heroin, even while the distributor thought he knew what he was doing. I think this is very sad, personally.

On top of that, for the super potent ones the addiction liabilities are different. Rapid tolerance develops quicker than the classic opiates everyone is familiar with, and the ceiling to it is different too. You can fuck yourself and your brain on some of these, on a whole other level. Intelligent, level headed people who have made fentanyl analogues have gotten addicted to them and commited suicide during withdrawels. The nature of these addictions can be an entirely different beast to other opiate addictions, and can skyrocket quicker also. Ignoring the cutting/overdose aspect, the concept of distributing or even promoting the accesibility of them is a moral issue one should strongly analyze.

For some of these novel structures, we don't really know how they metabolize or what implications this has for your health. Many of these are very different compounds, not just another minor variation on the morphine structure for example. They could have all sorts of unknown effects or toxicity to your body, which would easily become an issue if addiction took place.

Also, be mindful of the LD50 of each of these, some novel opiates could have a very low therapeutic index which makes them more dangerous. Drugs like these are usually not marketed in the pharmaceutical world. Some novel opiates have been researched by pharmaceutical companies, but rejected as drug candidates due to various reasons.

A final point I'd like to make is that these compounds are a major threat to research chemicals if they were marketed. These would get a lot of attention and obviously become illegal overnight. Look at JWH, it is already being banned worldwide and it is not a highly addictive and lethal drug. If some opiates start hitting the RC market then they would very possibly bring down many other RCs. Many analogues in the USA could become explicitly scheduled. Posting threads like this might not help avoid this; these are just some thoughts though.

But on a different note, novel opiates are definitely an exciting topic!

Last edited by sterling77; 26-07-2010 at 03:01. Reason: sp
  #13  
Old 26-07-2010, 03:22
xenos xenos is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

It should definitely be made clear that messing around with tryptamine and phenethylamine variations is dangerous as it is, and that experimenting with new opioids(?) is a whole new ballgame.
  #14  
Old 26-07-2010, 03:54
fiveleggedrat fiveleggedrat is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

People still cannot largely utilize and self administer any of the older opiates, namely heroin/morphine.

Why would one wish any type of ultra-potent opioid on the populace? Mass overdose and death would occur, and opioids will become even more scorned than they are.

Cannabinoids don't cause death. Most other RC's that make their way around are miligram to gram level, none are really microgram level.

No microgram opioids on the street!

If all dosed like codeine in terms of mass, opioids would be way considered way less evil.
  #15  
Old 26-07-2010, 14:30
Pieces Mended Pieces Mended is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveleggedrat View Post

If all dosed like codeine in terms of mass, opioids would be way considered way less evil.
SWIM entirely agrees with this. The amount of OD deaths would be reduced ten-fold. They would also be considered less evil if they were all administered orally such as codeine, not diluted and shot-up like so many street opiods.
  #16  
Old 26-07-2010, 15:08
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

By the Cats opinion it is not the matter of the Potency how well a Opioid is kicking in,
in example Fentanyl!
Fenta. do not satisfied her.

The Cat loved Heroin and not something 100 or even 30.000 times stronger!

The Potency will tell us nothing about the Nodding-quality!
  #17  
Old 27-07-2010, 12:03
Lady Codone Lady Codone is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

SWIM might consider trying these opiates...if she were a horse.

Seriously, SWIM can't imagine risking her life for a high--any high. Anyone who's not a chemist/medical professional would not be able to use such substances safely and would either have a miserable time from the side effects or die from overdose. They're interesting to read about though.
  #18  
Old 28-07-2010, 12:33
Picass035 Picass035 is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Codone View Post
SWIM might consider trying these opiates...if she were a horse.

Seriously, SWIM can't imagine risking her life for a high--any high. Anyone who's not a chemist/medical professional would not be able to use such substances safely and would either have a miserable time from the side effects or die from overdose. They're interesting to read about though.
SWIM completely agrees. If you're not in a position where you have the know-how on handling these compounds properly, then don't even THINK about touch them. Just go along your way and dream about them as dreams can't hurt you..or can they?

Back to the point, SWIM has the necessary skills, a fully enclosed bodysuit with respirator, and knows how to cut such compounds so that they are safe for handling. If 1 gram of a product 10,000x the potency of morphine is acquired, SWIM reckons he would need at least a kilo of cut so that each gram, would be approx 10mg (unless SWIM's math is wrong). If it, PLEASE someone correct SWIM..he is very tired...
  #19  
Old 28-07-2010, 12:46
Spucky Spucky is offline
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AW: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Enjoy, survive and Report!

What the Swiny will do afterwards?

A Addiction do this Stuff will made swiny feels really, really bad
Think about a Withdrawal 10.000 Times quicker and 10.000 Times harder
  #20  
Old 31-07-2010, 05:01
Aerokinetic Aerokinetic is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

SWIM is fairly certain that it's the potency and microscopic size of these drugs that make them so rare.
  #21  
Old 19-08-2010, 23:48
Synaps Synaps is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

If these drugs were made available, it is highly likely the ones who made it available would know enough about chemistry to cut it properly. I mean, come on! If they were not, they would never have the chance to be distributed properly. And it is not like it will become a hit with the kitchen chemists when they would die as soon as the drug hits the skin. It is far more likely that professional chemists in China will make it on commission.

Then let us start talking about the legal aspect of this. What do you think happens when you start up your little shop with LEGAL HEROIN. Who cares if it is legal? They will fuck you in the ass and drag you to court, all the while hindering you from conducting any business until they have got the drug banned.

Now, let us say you thought about that and decided to distribute the drug in the old fashioned way. You push tons of drugs out on the streets through the usual drug channels. Then they finally bust you and you pull out your ace card and tells them your drug is legal. But in that case, they will bust you for a bunch of other stuff. Remember Al Capone, the man who supplied Chicago with all their alcohol needs during the prohibition era? He was never prosecuted for creating the biggest illegal alcohol distribution network the US has ever seen. They could not pin it on him. Instead they got him for tax evasion. How are you going to explain your suddenly massive income to the IRS? Also, I am pretty sure you need to get anything sold for human consumption approved in the FDA before selling it as such. And you can try the plant feeder trick all you want but everybody knows that when it all comes down, that is just not going to hold up in a court room.
  #22  
Old 24-08-2010, 10:15
cyferman cyferman is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

I wonder if its possible to modify salvia plants, in a similar way you can with mushrooms to produce other chemicals, so that it produces herkinorin A and herkinorin B instead of the sally? because this would then mean one could theoretically have a more distribute medium for dosage, example quidding?
Wouldnt that be a new novel opiate
  #23  
Old 31-08-2010, 07:43
sbt8080 sbt8080 is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .:.Somnolence.:. View Post
Heres a legal opiate:
Buy some papaver somniferum, plant them. Water and fertilize and your done! All the raw opium and poppy pods you want.
Seriously now.
Wrong!

Despite popular belief, the Papaver somniferum plant is a controlled substance (Schedule II) in the United States. It may be uncontrolled in other jurisdictions, but remember this is not a self-incriminatory site, and we do not make assumptions about where SWIPeople are using SWITheir drugs.

Please refer to this post in which I detailed how Papaver somniferum falls under the Controlled Substances Act in the US.
  #24  
Old 31-08-2010, 16:03
zeno zeno is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by .:.Somnolence.:. View Post
Heres a legal opiate:
Buy some papaver somniferum, plant them. Water and fertilize and your done! All the raw opium and poppy pods you want.
Seriously now.
Name me a place where the moment you exact the latax you haven't committed a crime.

Also, unless SWIY lives outside the city I am thinking a massive garden of poppies would stand out. SWIY could grow a small patch and get a small supply but other than that I think it would like get the attention of big brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [AUTOLINK
SWIM[/AUTOLINK] might consider trying these opiates...if she were a horse.

Seriously, SWIM can't imagine risking her life for a high--any high. Anyone who's not a chemist/medical professional would not be able to use such substances safely and would either have a miserable time from the side effects or die from overdose. They're interesting to read about though.
Agreed. Unless you are one of the following, I would stay away.




Last edited by zeno; 31-08-2010 at 16:05. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #25  
Old 31-08-2010, 17:05
EyesOfTheWorld EyesOfTheWorld is offline
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Re: 100% LEGAL opioids!!!

SWIM has seen herkinorin for sale. As said, it could be safely dosed by intelligent people with scales. Fuck the rest of it.

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