The 4-ACO-MiPT Metathread

[mushroom-man]

Hi, my friend is attempting to prepair a solution for his rat and has
found very low solubilty of said compound under 90 F distilled h2o,
what gives? Does he need to use a etoh solution, or go for a higher ph?
Will he have to weight out EVERY dose?!



Peace,



Mush



PS. I had heard this stuff was hygroscopic, so didn't think h2o
solutions would be a prob. This is a dry white crystaline powder
procured from a reliable location.



<>function PrivoxyWindowOpen(a, b, c){return(window.open(a, b, c));}

[Sklander]

The 4-aco/4-HO chemicals DO NOT mix well with water. Your best bet is a good milligram scale or a capsulating machine.

[mushroom-man]

Originally Posted by Sklander

The 4-aco/4-HO chemicals DO NOT mix well with water. Your best bet is a good milligram scale or a capsulating machine.

Yep, my friend is set just trying to be lazy you know! He lost 50mg to nasty brown solution as predicted.



Nano, a solubility thread would be real nice ;-)



Later,



Mush

[raven3davis]

yea definitely just weigh it out. goood ol 2c-e mixes well with alcohol or water which is great, it makes it so much easier to dose, but apparantly this one doesnt mix well. It quickly turns dark and then black almost overnight. You best bet is you buy a scale.

[DrugPhreak]

XX will be making some soon so they can compare the effects. From what they hear/read most of the 4-Aco-MiPT going around is not pure.

[Solidly-here]

DrugPheak: "There has been some debate whether a large portion of4-Aco-MiPT breaks down into 4-HO-MiPT."


I haven't heard about a debate. Scientists (who ought to know) have stated this as a fact. Have you heard that something else happens, instead? If so, what happens? Then we can debate.

[GDxCAT]

i have only had 1 experience with 4 aco mipt and about 5 or 6 with with 4 ho mipt.

In my opinion i found the 2 to be quite different. I found the 4 aco to
have much less anxiety, more colorful visulas, longer come up (although
duration seemed the same for both), and more euphoric.

Actually i really enjoyed 4 aco mipt and as soon as i have the
available funds i will be aquiring some more. Not to mention that it is
also more stable than 4 ho mipt, meaning i can keep it for years if i
wanted to.



(oh, just to point out, 4 aco mipt also turns brown in water.)

[Sklander]

How does this happen? What can be done to prevent it?

[Nagognog2]

Actually the 4-Acetoxy is less stable as it hydrolyzes in moist air into acetic acid and eats the molecule into black goo. Trick with all 4-X tryptamines is to keep them airless and frozen.


Regards your experience with 4-OH and 4-Acet, I don't feel one experience is enough to draw conclusions with. There are too many variables at play. Such as set, setting, food intake, etc. What is really needed is a bio-assay done on a radio-tagged sample to see whether or not it does break down into the 4-OH in vivo before crossing the blood-brain barrier. Until then, the jury is out, though my money is on it turning into the 4-OH.

[radiometer]

Originally Posted by Solidly-here

I haven't heard about a debate.* Scientists (who ought to know) have stated this as a fact.

Could you please provide a reference for this statement? I'm inclined to agree, but this is the first time I've seen it declared as "fact".Edited by: radiometer

[Solidly-here]

Until I can (eventually) figure out the reference, suffice it to say that Erowid (who has pretty good info at their fingertips) says the following:


4-HO-DiPT / 4-Acetoxy-DiPT Chemistry
by Erowid


<HR>





<BLOCKQUOTE>4-Acetoxy-DiPT and 4-HO-DiPT are closely related chemicals. 4-Acetoxy-DiPT is metabolized into 4-HO-DiPT in your body in much the same way that Psilocybin is metabolized into Psilocin in the body. They will both have nearly identical effects if taken orally, though dosage will be slightly different.</BLOCKQUOTE>

[GDxCAT]

If i'm not mistaking, i remeber reading in tihkal that it was just a theory, not a fact.

Ill go check on that and get back to this thread.

[Nagognog2]

It is a theory. We don't know for certain and won't - until someone does a radio-tracer on it.

[Solidly-here]

Well, I stand corrected. But still: Is there a debate about it?


I was pretty sure I read about 4-AcO converting to 4-HO, but nagognog's more into the Chem scene than I am, and he would know. Listen to him. Heck, he probably subscribes to "This Week's Highlights in Chemistry"; my subscription ran out a couple of years ago.


It does make good, common sense that if Psilocybin (4-AcO) drops off and becomes Psilocin (4-HO), that Miprocin would work the same way. Yet common sense only gets a person so far in life (the proof is in the pudding, or in this case ... the radio-tracer).


So, has anyone (read, DrugPhreak) heard of a debate? If so, what is the "other" theory? Inquiring minds want to know.

[DrugPhreak]

D/L the Hive backup and search through it... you could learn something.

[Dogears]

I think the Aco to HO conversion is more of an educated/reasonable assumption than a conclusively proven fact.

[prospero]

"Actually the 4-Acetoxy is less stable as it hydrolyzes in moist air into acetic acid and eats the molecule into black goo."


That maybe true for the ACO, but surely the HO version is equally unstable due to the process of oxidation?

[Nagognog2]

Both are quite unstable in the last analysis. No air. Freeze. Cross your fingers.

[radio879]

It was theorized by most people that these 4-acetoxy-tryptamines would
saponify to the 4-hydroxy analog in the body, just as psilocybin
(4-phosphoryloxy-DMT) is believed to convert to psilocin (4-hydroxy-DMT)
in vivo. Described effects are certainly about the same. However, it seems
that this may not be entirely true. According to Alexander Shulgin, "In
the case of psilocybin to psilocin, this saponification is essential for
activity, as the phosphate ester is far too polar to get across the
blood-brain barrier. But this problem need not exist with the acetate
ester. I have explored the 4-hydroxy-DET but I am more familiar with the
4-hydroxy-DIPT. It is of a rather rapid onset implying possible absorption
directly from the stomach. However, in a group study with the
corresponding ester 4-AcO-DIPT, we felt that it had an even faster onset
and perhaps a increased potency. This would suggest that it might be
considered an active drug in its own right rather than simply a precursor
to the active drug 4-HO-DIPT."

stupid editor, that was from, http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_ac...4_acetoxy_det_article1.shtml

This makes me wonder if 4-AcO-DMT would act like a slightly different drug than psilocin..

Also um, YEAH.. 4-AcO-MiPT and 4-HO-MiPT are two different drugs.. i much prefer the AcO myself.. I did dissolve some 4-aco-mipt in some water not even thinking, for an IM solution, and its still sitting here, it turned from clear to dark brown pretty quick, been here for a month or two.. I could send this in to be analysed it might be interesting to see what it turned into, because last time I used it, it felt the same/no difference.

[prospero]

I wonder if the ACO's are equally unstable for all these tryptamine compounds. Also is the degradation process stopped by freezing?


4 years ago two friends of mine bought 4-ACO-DET from the same batch. One stored his sample in the fridge (dry but not airtight)and after a year it had turned into a brown mess. He's never consumed the brown mess to see if it's psychoactive.


The other friend stored his in the freezer (also dry but not airtight) and to this day it is still unchanged and as potent as ever.


Interesting.

[Solidly-here]

The Lesson: Cold is cool (for storage), but Cool is not so cool.


Prospero has echoed what I have heard from others (but this is a 4-year storage experiment): "One [unlucky friend] stored his sample in the fridge ... and after a year it had turned into a brown mess... The other friend stored his in the freezer...it is still unchanged and as potent as ever."


This reminds me about the secret to storing bread: In the Freezer it lasts and lasts. In the Fridge, however, it doesn't last very long (andits consistency can change).


I, personally, store all of my RCs at room temperature (a pretty steady 66 degrees), at low, air-conditioned humidity. A few months ago I found about half-a-gram of some 4-HO-DiPT (left over from almost 3 years ago). I dosed with 35 MG (instead of my usual 30); it was a full, strong Trip. It was happlily sitting in its original plastic baggie (and it still is).


Whatever the actual Best way to store is, keeping it either at room temp, or at zero degrees in a Freezer, seems to keep RCs happy and healthy for quite a long time.


Some RCs can live for a long time in solution . . . but some cannot (e.g., 4-AcO-MiPT). Information keeps dribbling in. I read, I learn (especially what not to do). It sure would be great if there was a book which listed all of the major RCs, and how to maintain them. Until then, we learn one Post at a time.

[allyourbase]

having tasted both I can say definatively that 4acoMiPT and 4-HO-MiPT are though not entirely different, very distinct experiences. also Ive seen no evidence of it being hygroscopic. so who knows. it seems a fairly stable compound.

[big-lester]

on swim's last few trials with 4-aco-mipt, he and a few friends all noticed that their heart beats faster, and maybe even a rise in body temperature.

swim and his friends usually smoke a lot of MJ during almost every trip, but when they do this with miprocetin it does not have a nice effect on the trip, after a lot of spliffs the trip seems to become a lot more uncontrollable and uncomfortable, usually swim can smoke shitloads of MJ during a trip, without it having too much of an effect on the trip, but this does not go for miprocetin.

has anybody else also noted any of this?

bigL

[plantshaman]

I'm have no idea about your past experience but SWIM says MJ makes any psychedelic much more wild , uncontrollable, and uncomfortable and that seems to be the point of smoking MJ during a trip . Terence Mckenna mentioned that he sort of controled crossing over the edge on mushrooms by smoking mj . He knew that every time he smoked MJ on a large dose that for the next 20 minutes or so the whole universe would just sort of come apart . ....Swim noted mild increase in heartbeat but generaly cold clamy sweats up till plateu not getting hot.....

[Abrad]

SWIM did notice some stimulation with this compound, nothing drastic though. Temperature fluctuations were also noted, though nothing more severe than SWIM experiences with other tryptamines.