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LSA seeds LSA containing seeds like Morning Glory, Hawaiian Baby Woodrose, Rivea corymbosa

 
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  #1  
Old 27-05-2010, 16:36
Sobercolober Sobercolober is offline
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Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

SWIM looked up peppermint and found it is a vasoconstrictor, SWIM is sure he has read that it is supposed to be anti vaso constictor and partly why it is
used in LSA extractions..... as well as turning LSA to LSH

a quick search finds ....

"One of the most powerful vasoconstrictors in aromatherapy Peppermint oil is excellent for cooling hot conditions like hot flash, tired and achy legs, hands and feet."

and

"Peppermint is a vasoconstrictor; constricts blood vessels. Take 10-20 g of dried peppermint leaves daily, in tea form or 3-6 g in capsule form, in divided doses, between meals, for many months."

Surely this would seem to heighten the vasoconstrictional effects of LSA seeds?

Whats up with the misinformation people, can SWIM/Y get some clarity on this?

Here is a quote from another post from this forum...

"Another advantage there is to this technique is the peppermint oil is high in
Salicylates which is one type of natural blood thinner that blocks vitamin K.
LSA seeds are known its vasoconstrictive properties and this natural blood
thinner solves this problem for the duration of your high."

So what is right?

SWIY need to be careful about what is read on this forum and research in more than one place.
  #2  
Old 27-05-2010, 16:55
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Hmm, I'm not sure how a blood thinner would assist with vasoconstriction...No that doesn't make any sense to me.

To clarify this issue and settle it I did an EBSCO search. I did not turn up anything on vasoconstriction with regards to peppermint or any of it's constituents. I did find a short review which provides some information:

Quote:
[h1]Peppermint: more than just another pretty flavor. (Healing Herbs).[/h1]
Better Nutrition 60.n2 (Feb 1998): pp24(1). (697 words)
Author(s):Karyn Siegel-Maier. Document Type:Magazine/Journal Bookmark:

COPYRIGHT 1998 PRIMEDIA Intertec, a PRIMEDIA Company. All Rights Reserved.

Today, there are more than 25 true species of mint naturalized throughout Europe and North America that were well known to cooks and medics of ancient times. But in terms of herbal history, peppermint (Mentha piperita) is a fairly new addition to the league of botanical medicines. Peppermint, a natural hybrid cross between Mentha aquatica (water mint) and Mentha (spearmint), was first described in 1696 by English botanist John Ray (1628-1705), who discovered the pepper-flavored mint growing in a field. The herb soon revealed its capacity as a stomachic, antispasmodic, antimicrobic, and, of course, as a pleasant flavoring agent. Since its inclusion in the London Pharmacopoeia in 1721, this aromatic herb has been extensively cultivated for its essential oil, with the U.S. providing nearly 75 percent of the world's fresh supply.

An active constituent of peppermint, found in the leaves and flowering tops, is menthol (up to 3 percent), which is the alcoholic component responsible for the plant's cool sensation. Azulene is the "minor" component believed to be responsible for peppermint's anti-inflammatory and anti-ulcer benefits. The presence of various esters, particularly menthyl acetate, imparts the familiar minty aroma and flavor so familiar to us. The quality of peppermint oil is determined by its menthol content, which can vary considerably depending upon the region it is grown. American peppermint oil contains anywhere from 50 to 78 percent menthol, the English oil from 60 to 70 percent, and the Japanese oil nearly 85 percent.

Peppermint oil is well known for its ability to suppress symptoms of indigestion. In fact, that's why mint-flavored candies and liqueurs are popular after-dinner treats. The compounds of peppermint oil reduce spasms of the colon and intestinal tract, and, due to the presence of thymol and eugenol, balance oral and intestinal flora, thereby reducing fermentation of undigested food. The antispasmodic action of peppermint oil makes it useful in soothing menstrual cramps, and it is often used to treat irritable bowel syndrome (IBS). In a 1996 German double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 45 subjects with IBS were treated with a combination of peppermint and caraway oils (90 mg: 50 mg) given as enteric-coated capsules. Pain symptoms, which were reported as being moderate to severe, significantly improved in 89.5 percent of the test group.

Peppermint oil is sometimes given in entericcoated capsules, particularly when treating IBS, diverticulitis, and other chronic intestinal disorders. the coating prevents the release of the oil's therapeutic agents before reaching the large intestine (colon). Otherwise, they would be absorbed in the stomach and never reach the targeted destination. It must be used properly, of course, since the oil can sometimes cause dermatitis and other allergic reactions (if not used properly).

Another medicinal action of peppermint oil is to ease headaches when applied across the forehead and temples. The first report to suggest that peppermint oil helped to relieve headaches was published in the British medical journal, Lancet, in 1879. But the first double-blind, crossover study on the effect of peppermint oil on tension-type headache was conducted in Germany, in 1996. Researchers analyzed 164 headache attacks of 41 subjects and found that a locally applied ethanol solution of 10 percent peppermint oil significantly reduced pain in the experimental group within 15 minutes, and was as effective in relieving headache as the 1,000 mg of acetaminophen given to the control group.

Another medicinal application of peppermint oil is to deter nausea. The September 1997 issue of the Journal of Advanced Nursing reported success with gynecological patients who were given peppermint oil to relieve post-operative nausea. The participating patients experienced less nausea and required less "contemporary" antiemetics. It can be expected that more experiments of this nature will be forthcoming.

You may be surprised to learn that peppermint oil, a familiar flavoring agent (one of the most widely used, in fact), has so many substantiated medicinal benefits. Although peppermint oil is used extensively to flavor liqueurs, confections, ice cream, beverages, chewing gum, mouthwash, toothpaste, and even some tobacco products, this doesn't mean its therapeutic qualities haven't been taken quite seriously. Also make sure to see which peppermint oil products are available at your local health food store, such as peppermint tea, peppermint oil capsules, and natural oral-care products.

Source Citation: Siegel-Maier, Karyn. "Peppermint: more than just another pretty flavor." Better Nutrition Feb. 1998: 24. Academic OneFile. Web. 27 May 2010.
Unfortunately, I didn't find much else and this doesn't really address the questions

Last edited by Jasim; 27-05-2010 at 17:13.
  #3  
Old 27-05-2010, 17:12
Sobercolober Sobercolober is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

"Hmm, I'm not sure how a blood thinner would assist with vasoconstriction...No that doesn't make any sense to me."

SWIM is now unsure whether to bother with peppermint, it might make the vasoconstriction worse?

SWIM now finds out that 70pct cocoa dark chocolate is a vasodilator, SWIM think SWIM will eat some of it shortly after taking the special drinky.

Sobercolober added 3 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

SWIM proposes there is some minimal amount of peppermint which turn LSA to LSH as the positive benefit of its use and any more than this as yet unknown amount may increase vasoconstrictive properties of the mix overall. SWIM has no idea for sure but hypothesizes.

SWIM will brew very weak peppermint tea for the extraction and eat a few bites of dark chocolate to be on the safe side.

Last edited by Sobercolober; 27-05-2010 at 17:12. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #4  
Old 27-05-2010, 17:14
bean. bean. is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Judge on what Jasim posted (although I only briefly scanned it) I'd say mint would combat the effects of LSA vascoconstriction. I base this only on the fact that menthol is present in mint, which is an alcohol. Am I right in assuming this would have similar vascodilation effects to ethanol?
  #5  
Old 27-05-2010, 17:20
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

I think that's a bit of a jump. Just like all groups of chemicals/drugs, all alcohols aren't going to react the same in the body. There's a lot of other constituents in peppermint oil as well. I'd really like to see some scientific evidence with regards to these questions.

I will say that the vasoconstriction effects from peppermint can't be all that great or so many people wouldn't use peppermint with LSA. Or you'd at least see more reports of bad vasoconstriction.
  #6  
Old 27-05-2010, 18:34
bean. bean. is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Haha yeah I suppose it was a bit of a sweeping generalisation sounded good in my head though! I suppose using the same logic all alcohols would make you blind.

Personally I haven't used peppermint with LSA but LSA itself was enough to make my mates legs feel awfull! This has intrigued me though might have to have a deeper look, or just try a few experiments. Maybe looking at more traditional uses for peppermint could point us in the right direction?

Bit busy right now but I'm deffinately coming back to this one.

bean. added 64 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

Aha! It took a bit of work but I finally got it!

Coming from a wikipedia page at the moment, but just now backed up in a scientific paper 'Principles of Pharmacology for Athletic Trainers' menthol is a vascodilator, which is what is responsable for the cooling effect apparently. So is camphor, which migth be found in peppermint also, however this is harder to back up it seems.

There can be up to 3% menthol in peppermint, and the possibility of another vascodilator (camphor), so my presumption is that peppermint is a vascodilator.

Hope that helped clear things up a little bit. By the way thought neg rep was a bit harsh, slip of the tongue ... finger. Haha

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Last edited by bean.; 27-05-2010 at 18:34. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #7  
Old 27-05-2010, 20:20
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bean. View Post
Coming from a wikipedia page at the moment, but just now backed up in a scientific paper 'Principles of Pharmacology for Athletic Trainers' menthol is a vascodilator, which is what is responsable for the cooling effect apparently. So is camphor, which migth be found in peppermint also, however this is harder to back up it seems.

There can be up to 3% menthol in peppermint, and the possibility of another vascodilator (camphor), so my presumption is that peppermint is a vascodilator.
Wow, that complicates things. We were discussing vasoconstriction. Anyone have a source stating peppermint has vasoconstrictive properties?
  #8  
Old 27-05-2010, 22:36
Sobercolober Sobercolober is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

It is plastered all over the internet and whilst thats not proof of course, I did find some medical based site but cannot post links up

wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=IL2009000652&DISPLAY=CLAIMS
  #9  
Old 28-05-2010, 10:29
bean. bean. is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Well this is rather annoying, I wrote a nice long post detailing the chemicals in peppermint and whether they had any effect on the vascular system, but it seems my computer decided to crash. Anyway here it goes again.

Firstly, I looked up those chemicals that were in peppermint, and cross referenced this from a few different sources incase some had been missed out. Anyway I think I got a list of all the major ones in the end.

Quote:
volatile oils (composed mainly of menthol, menthone, and menthylacetate, with smaller amounts of menthofuran, limonene, pulegone, cineole, bisabolene, isomenthol, neomenthol), flavonoids, phytol, tocopherols, carotenoids, betaine, choline, azulenes, rosma
There were also a few other chemicals from different sources but this seemed to be the most complete list. The others which occured enough to be worried about were pinene and germacrene, however I made sure to check these and found them to have no effect on cardiovascular system.

Anyway, I had a quick look at each chemical that came up to see if it had any obvious role on the cardovascular system and found that of those listed only menthol, neomenthol, flavanoids, and tocopherols had any action.

Rather importantly I suppose I should point out that flavanoids and tocopherols are groups of chemicals, and so there is a possibility that the actual chemicals present in peppermint act differently. However, I found that both of these groups have an effect on the cardiovascular system, but mainly vasoprotective properties. Basically keeping the heart and blood vessels healthy, and protecting from CHD. No obvious vasocontricting effects.

Then I took a deeper look at menthol and neomenthol, both of which only returned an account of vasodilating effects much like ethanol.

Like Jasim said this is slightly confusing as it is plastered all over the internet of its vasoconstricting effects. However I can find no evidence that it is from it's chemical make up. Best bet is a medical paper stating its actual effects on the human body and why, but I doubt anyone wil bother to set up such an experiment for peppermint.

Sorry if that was a bit long and borring I just wanted to clear things up. Maybe there would be a way of taking varying doses of peppermint and somehow recording the vascular effects, such as recording blood pressure?
  #10  
Old 28-05-2010, 19:27
Sobercolober Sobercolober is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

SWIM appreciates the post dose investigations, respect.

SWIM is going with the peppermint as it seems many have done this
and LSH seems preferable than LSA given they both cause some vasoconstriction to some degree, though it seems some individuals are more susceptible and at a relatively low dose and with SWIMS nice 85pct cocoa organic chocolate to put him in a good mood and as a vaso dilator he feels it will be fine.

Sunday night is the designated evening probably around 4pm.

SWIM will report back on my Rivea corymbosa thread as to results if any.

Let's hope 1)it works 2)no nausea 3)no aches and pains in legs !

Sobercolober added 0 Minutes and 16 Seconds later...

SWIM appreciates the post dose investigations, respect.

SWIM is going with the peppermint as it seems many have done this
and LSH seems preferable than LSA given they both cause some vasoconstriction to some degree, though it seems some individuals are more susceptible and at a relatively low dose and with SWIMS nice 85pct cocoa organic chocolate to put him in a good mood and as a vaso dilator he feels it will be fine.

Sunday night is the designated evening probably around 4pm.

SWIM will report back on SWIMS Rivea corymbosa thread as to results if any.

Let's hope 1)it works 2)no nausea 3)no aches and pains in legs !

Last edited by Sobercolober; 28-05-2010 at 19:27. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 17-06-2010, 04:13
InvisibleThing InvisibleThing is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Some Well Informed Monkey wanted to say, excellent info! He was moved to compulsive research.
SWIM's spouse, while unlikely to experiment with LSA, could potentially be well served by the anti-nausea and other health promoting properties of peppermint (and ginger ), and her simian lifemate plans to try his first morning glory seeds for the first time within the next couple days. He hypotheses that adding peppermint oil to lemon juice for the cold water extraction may have beneficial properties, but wonders if it would be better added after extraction, as the menthol would evaporate or otherwise degrade after 3-5 hrs? He suspects it wouldn't hurt to add peppermint oil during extraction, and again before ingestion. Any potential undesirable reactions between the lemon juice and peppermint oil in regards to LSA compounds, especially after soaking?
  #12  
Old 17-06-2010, 04:30
bluntshell bluntshell is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

"Pain and sensory effects
In low concentrations, topical application of menthol causes a cooling sensation, while in higher concentrations, it causes local anesthesia and irritation. The irritant effect of menthol causes local vasodilation. This effect has been used to aid penetration of topical drugs. Menthol's sensory effects are utilized in commercial topical musculoskeletal products.

--drugs.com 2009 Wolters Kluwer Health

So, it seems it's a vasodilator?

Since menthol is the what we're really looking for here.....I assume methol is th main chemical having whatever effect

It seems it's vasodialtion effects are why it's included in topical pain remediel, oral pain remedies, and erection creams..... Might explain why menthol tobacco (subjectivly) is more addictve......

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Links go dead. Copy and Paste.

Last edited by bluntshell; 23-06-2010 at 00:21. Reason: link
  #13  
Old 18-06-2010, 08:39
willyJ willyJ is offline
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Re: Peppermint IS a vasoconstrictor it seems...

Hmmm, interesting. So perhaps rubbing a bit of Vicks vaporub on your legs when they start to ache might help? Topical relief targetted to the site of the constriction!

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Interesting suggestion.

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drug, drugs, extraction, ginger, lsa, menthol, morning glory, morning glory seeds, peppermint, tea, vasoconstriction, vasodilation

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