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Opiate addiction Support for coping with Opiate addiction and Opiate addiction treatment.

 
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  #1  
Old 26-05-2010, 07:12
Dickon Dickon is offline
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Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

This is a thread to post your own experiences of PAWS and, if required, ask for support. There is of course the option of starting your own journal thread, which I would recommend.

The reason I am setting this thread up is I want to make the Help with Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS) after Opiate Withdrawal --- into a repository of information only and have this new thread as a more general place for personal experiences and support.

My own experiences I will not relate here since they are available in the Screaming in the night air and Dreaming in the night air: the sequel. Withdrawal over, what now? threads.

All the best

Dickon

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Excellent idea, that leaves the PAWS info unadulterated.
  #2  
Old 26-05-2010, 13:21
Tussipax Tussipax is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

SWIM's last PAWS was so awful and that's why SWIM's been taking buprenorphine for months to try to recover of codeine addiction.
One day, she decided to give up from codeine cos she was gonna come back at her parents'. When she stopped she had withdrawal symptoms and then PAWS.
Everyday, she had the same symptoms : Anxiety (butterflies in the stomach, lump in her throat, immobility because of her worry) when she woke up the morning which lasted to the mid-afternoon and turned to a depressed mood. She was sad, wanted to cry and craved for codeine.
She couldn't hold on in this way for many days and she ended up to take codeine several times a week.
Her PAWS lasted 2/3 months before she relapsed into codeine for one month before having a treatment of Subutex.
She is scared of PAWS when she will stop Subutex. She even thinks that PAWS is worst and more awful than withdrawal symptoms.
  #3  
Old 27-05-2010, 05:27
DEJA DEJA is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

PAWS can be really bad simply because one doesn't know how long it will last.SWIM here went back to using codeine 3 times after staying off it for 3 weeks to a month.This time SWIM is not thinking long term and only taking one day at a time.SWIMs been off the thing for 43 days now.SWIM keeps himself occupied jogs swims at local pool and is taking care of eating well and vits.SWIM found Velarin very useful and used it for a month.Takes the edge off.Now SWIM thinks hes off the worst bit but if SWIM wanders away from the structured routine he knows it will come back and haunt him.Also indulging in movies and music really helps SWIM.Comedy is good .PAWS the more you read about the more afraid and discouraging it becomes so don't read too much about it.Don't think too much about it.Suffice it to know such a thing exists and its temporary.And stay away from any mood altering stuff alcohol included.For how long? Dunno pretty long I guess
  #4  
Old 18-08-2010, 23:10
edarrin edarrin is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Problems arise when one has a serious case of PAWS and must work in a professional environment.

Working in a professional environment. What has driven me back time and time again.


Well my friends, SWIm is back at work and having a serious case of PAWS. To the point I am wondering if either I return to dope (not planning yet) or quit his job , which is completely absurd under the circumstances.

Unfortunetly SWIM has resorted to some unhealthy coping mechanisms. Been using (abusing) Ritalin on Rx and cocaine with benzos just to feel some motivation. As close to 'normal' without using opiates as SWIM can get.

I realize this is rediculus and unsustainable. SWIM has a medical illness that causes great fatique and sleep disturbances on it's own. SIM's completely sideways. Hard to tell which is causing which. I do feel that PAWS is making the other worse. Starting to remember some of the feelings, such as nausea, which opiates seemed to covered up.


SWIM's comon sense tells me SWIM really needs to bear down and bear it for a while to see if it gets better. SWIM think SWIM will try to force SWIM back to meetings again.

It's been 49 days now. If SWIM didn't F$%^ around SWIM woud probably be starting to feel better by now. Well the last time SWIM got clean it wasn't a smooth transition either.
  #5  
Old 19-08-2010, 17:31
swimsstrange swimsstrange is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

hi,

swmis quit a mediocre h-habit (snorting 0,5-1g/day) 8 months ago, and the dreaded paws has still its grip on him from time to time.
For the first 6 months swim had basketball-sized sweat under his armpits constantly, diarrhea (sp?) and mental swings from normal to anxious to half-depressed to half-manic(seldom). Thank god moods aren't low constantly, and now swim has days of complete normalcy in between. paws can create powerful insights aswell. Its an unaddiction process where the core of addictive behaviour (in swims case mental lassitude since childhood) gets revealed. But it sucks to be very emotional, and to get angry on the slightest delay (queues for example).
Never again I'm gonna pick this up, as withdrawal ain't away after 1-2 weeks. It's more like 1-2 YEARS.
  #6  
Old 22-08-2010, 01:36
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Well...... basically, swims bedlington terrier had been clean for over ten years, he got clean the first time himself after methadone, re-hab and other methods didn't work, swims bedlington terrier finally did it himself and thinks he may have gone through some sort of opposite PAWS thing.
Recently after a very trying time in swims bedlington terriers life, he started using again, this only went on for about 3 months and the swims bedlington terrier realized fairly quickly he had relapsed and needed to do something about it, anyways, swims bedlington terrier is going through incredible PAWS this time around, swims bedlington terrier is a photographer and artist, yet he lacks any inspiration to do his art, swims bedlington terrier suffers from aches and pains all the time, no cravings for drugs (except perhaps for the occasional valium which seems to stop the PAWS straight away, but having moved he doesn't know a doctor that would help someone in his position) It's been almost 4 or 5 months and swims Bedlington Terrier does not know when this will end, the anxiety is tearing him apart, swims bedlington terrier doesn't know what to do........

clean13 added 1341 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Hi All,
Swim realizes he didn't make a very well formed statement about what he is going through, Swim was in lots of mental and physical discomfort yesterday and hence his post most likely sounded like gibberish, Swim is trying really hard to see through this bout of PAWS but is finding it very very hard, having just moved to a new state Swim is also devoid of a lot of support from people who might understand what Swim is going through, Swim thinks he will attempt to write a journal and use it to map out his thoughts and describe his past experiences which have led up to where he is today, the hardest part for Swim has been that every time he has started to feel a little better he has come down with some sort of illness, gastro, the flu ect.
Swim realizes this is most likely due to his immune system being compromised,
Anyways, Swim says thanks to anyone who is reading this and if you feel like even just saying hello, or letting swim know it will be alright eventually he would appreciate this greatly.
Thanks Again,
D.

"If you think you know what the hell is going on, you're probably full of shit.”
Robert Anton Wilson

Last edited by clean13; 22-08-2010 at 01:36. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #7  
Old 22-08-2010, 23:50
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

SWIM needs help.

Its day #7 for swim since dropping out of a methadone maintenance program that had decided to term swim for false positives (for natural opiates) in swims utoxes. SWIM had serious reservations before going on meth maintenance precisely out of the fear of this catastrophic car-wreck from happening (and it did -- despite an honest effort and stellar performance at the clinic (except for the false pos utoxes which swims pharmacist has told him is likely due to the high dose combination of acid-reducers (#25-35x 150mg ranitidine/zantac tabs at a time minimum once daily and proton-pump-inhibitor drugs swims (Prevacid/lansaprazole and/or kapidex-d-lansaprazole) on. Sorry for the US pharm terminology to all those members across the pond.

First 4-5 days went like a glorious, pain-free blitzkrieg thanks to having gotten #90 zanax 1mg tabs. SWIM was just lights-out all this time

Now, every day's getting HARDER to bear and the mental warfare is at fever pitch.

SWIM knows that using is short term relief and long term pain/suffering. That getting through to the other side of withdrawal/PAWS is the only truly easier, softer way. SWIM was on methadone maintenance for approx 4-5 months. Started at 70mg for first 25+- days in program, then adjusted to 120mg daily over next 4-5 weeks. there was a time when 70mg was SWIMS perfect dose, then when he moved back home after a month away at a program, it wasn't holding him. 120mg made swim nod out all day, wiped out all traces of a sex drive, or life. When brought down 10 105-110mg daily swim felt like a rocket again. anyway, SWIM needs support and positive people to help him get through to the other side of PAWS(? or is this still acute WD from the meth???) SWIM would have posted in the PAWS thread but for the warning that all experience posts would be obliterated by moderators.

There just comes a point when no matter how much you manage to score, its only enough for a few days at best then the 24-hour full-time job of looking for exponentially, progressively more impossible scores. It becomes to much trouble for too little payoff.
  #8  
Old 23-08-2010, 01:03
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

I totally feel for anyone who is struggling to get through PAWS at the moment, cos it's almost like adding insult to injury, after enduring the physical WD symptoms. The only thing I can remember helping me was keeping a diary. I found it almost impossible to clean my teeth and bathe on some days, believe me, it felt like a real achievement to do both. And that started me thinking?

One of the main reasons PAWS is so awful is cos it feels like you can no longer do the normal stuff. So I kept a diary detailing all the ordinary stuff I wanted to do. Each day (evening) I'd describe just how I felt, and set myself 3 goals for the following day. After a week I looked back on how far I'd really come, not how far it had seemed that I'd advanced.

It was surprising. Cos to me, I'd done nothing, hadn't seen any improvement, but reading back it was definitely there. And that feeling of accomplishment that's so needed in early recovery is self propelling. You manage to do something that at first seems difficult, and you feel good because you've done it. Then you build on that feeling.

After a month you'll see just what has been achieved as opposed to what it feels you've managed to do, and trust me, it will feel bloody awesome. But remember, start small. For me cleaning my teeth, making the bed, and actually keeping the diary, were my 3 goals for the first day. After a few weeks I set up a long term goal, like going to the dentist. I began that by breaking it down.Same with all long term goals, break them down into smaller doable goals.

But please, hang in there, cos trust me, if it didn't improve, myself (and a few others here) wouldn't be in recovery now.

Sparkles.

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Supportive post, with helpful suggestions.
missparkles talks such good sense and is so supportive he/she reallly does sparkle
  #9  
Old 23-08-2010, 05:44
clean13 clean13 is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

@Burnz,
From Swims experience with Meth, 7 days and you would still most likely be in the acute stages of withdrawal, although towards the tail end of it, Swim has just been reading an experienced members (actually i think he is a moderator) thread on here about coming off a serious Methadone dosage, search screaming in the night air, brilliant stuff about withdrawing from methadone, all in all hang in there, if you have come this far (7 days) in a methadone withdrawal, what do you have to loose from going a little further? Swim knows Methadone is one of the hardest opiates to come off because of it's extremely long half life, but i would like to encourage you and say 7 days is quite an accomplishment, so well done and keep at it. : )
@misssparkles,
Thank you, it does feel like swim is having trouble doing the most basic things, swim has been a little hard on himself as when swim quit first time round, over ten years ago, swim got a sort of blissful bubble effect rather then this agonizing protracted PAWS this time round, also swim knows it was so long ago he may have forgotten the time frame, swim also thought it was about 5 months since he did a detox, but found out from his flickr page it is just under 3 months, so swim is not going to be so hard on himself, thanks for wise advice, setting goals, no matter how small is a great idea, and to anyone else suffering PAWS, i feel for you, hang in there.
D
  #10  
Old 23-08-2010, 09:00
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

clean13,

Thanks for the encouraging words.
I also agree with your estimate with were I'm at (i.e. Acute WD's, not yet post acute) I just wasn't sure if somehow SWIM had miraculously escaped the dreaded scourge due to the blocking out effect the #90 xanax 1mg tabs he took over the first 4x days during which SWIM basically just slept the worst anticipated stage away played tricks on SWIMS head. SWIMS previous DOC was oxycodone IR / Oxycontin #15-20 80mg tabs (1.2 g-1.6g) daily along with approx # 20 SOMA 350mg (carisoprodol) then #90 1mg Xanax + #30-60 10mg zolpidem / Ambien for 1-2 weeks. And swims previous WD's were hellish followed by lower intensity but longer duration (months) PAWS. Basically SWIMS previous experiences had taught him that he'd be hit big time within the first 24 - 48 hours caught out.

So at day #5 SWIM found himself thinking that maybe he'd caught a lucky break and had escaped the worst of it. This being SWIMS 1st methadone detox experience... SWIMS rambling.

On a somewhat more positive note, I was able to sit still for about 25 minutes whilst listening to the calming rainstorm outside my home and realizing that this is a gift I should be very grateful for and be sure to share on DF before retiring to bed -- which SWIM was also feeling oddly optimistic / positive about for some reason -- maybe because swim realized he'd been through much worse WD's before. The last bit is the only factor that still plays tricks with SWIMS mind though, the 10-11years of trying to kick opiates in particular and drugs in general and failing so many times (or in reverse psycho-babble / positive affirmation mode: learning succesfully ways how not to detox / get off SWIMS DOC. And those years robbed swim of much life and wracked a lot of collateral damage.

SWIM has read dickons posts mentioned above and agrees that they are brilliant indeed. And misssparkles advice on setting 3x goals nightly for the coming day is something I'm incorporating into my recovery master plan right now as well. So, again, thanks all!

Burnz added 126 Minutes and 37 Seconds later...

still up. Sleep thing not working out...

Last edited by Burnz; 23-08-2010 at 09:00. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #11  
Old 23-08-2010, 09:07
missparkles missparkles is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

There's a positive to be found in every single situation in recovery, even the worst case scenario...relapse. Cos Sparkles found that each time she relapsed she learned what DIDN'T work, and eventually incorporated all of the things that she'd worked out did, into her final attempt (successful so far) to quit. She also used her diary to journal daily feelings, these enabled her to identify some of her relapse triggers, and again, she used this info to avoid them in the future.

Sparkles.
  #12  
Old 23-08-2010, 20:16
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

alternating tracks of Eminem's "The way I am" and "I'm a soldier" play on in the background as I grit my teeth in resolve.


Drawing strength and inspiration from a source from my teens...

2. Definition
We shall not begin here with a clumsy, pedantic, definition of war, but confine ourselves to its essence, the duel. War is nothing but a duel on a larger scale. If we would combine into one conception the countless separate duels of which it consists, we would do well to think of two wrestlers. Each tries by physical force to compel the other to do his will; his immediate object is to overthrow his adversary and thereby make him incapable of any further resistance.

-- Clausewitz "On War"

I will dominate you or die trying. You seek only my destruction, my perdition, my death. You will not succeed. I will see you starved of all sustenance, I will tread your dust under my heels. Every arrow which flies at me will only harden my resolve to crush you. So fire away, bud... bring it on. Every second of every minute of every hour of every day that passes will see you weaker and me stronger.


your left, your left, right -- I'll never let go!!!

Burnz added 167 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...

clean13,

Hanging in there buddy?

Burnz added 424 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

I snapped last night. Probably due to the expectation of sleep which had come on whilst tuning out of my various bodily sufferings for about 25-30 min in the evening during a rainstorm and some tea (with 2x bags for extra caffeine -- what an idiot I am

When I found myself spending day #8 going on #9? (I'm no longer able to accurately track the exact time) of acute WD's with at least 5x straight days with zer0 sleep. It was a snapping point ergo my militant rant of last eve. At least some people on this lovely planet of ours managed to get some rest last night and went on to work and their assorted "earth-people" pursuits

Last edited by Burnz; 23-08-2010 at 20:16. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #13  
Old 23-08-2010, 20:38
Dickon Dickon is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

I hope you just mean that you snapped psychically and not that you snapped and picked up opiates. It sounds like that is what you meant, and I really really hope it is. Don't worry about going a little loopy at this stage in a withdrawal, it's par for the course! Maybe start a journal thread and let it all hang out like I did.

Here's sending you happy thoughts and maybe even a little sleep tonight. It will come eventually.

All good things

Dickon
  #14  
Old 23-08-2010, 23:44
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

I hope you just mean that you snapped psychically and not that you snapped and picked up opiates.

Exactly my point. I had meant to say that last night/today was the first time I snapped emotionally and became angered (first at my addiction) and now at those around me -- my family life which is severely strained after spending the last decade plus foraging selfishly through the poppy fields. I was disappointed at myself because I have come to realize over the years that an even keel throughout the choppy waters at this point in the game and for at least the next few years until I have restored some normalcy, and/or 'sanity' in myself, learned some healthy coping skills for life's myriad challenging twists and turns ahead... is critical. And no, my friend, I did not relapse, in truth until the last few disapointments of today which started me thinking that I might have to "function" again in the very near future or.... here I go on a nice little ramble....... no my friend I shall not subject you to that indignity. Right now I'm thinking it was just a temptation and I am looking at it from the standpoint of as long as my head hits the pillow clean and sober tonight today will be counted as a victory.

When I quoted Clausewitz last night -- truly a work of so much backbone, direction and inspiration in my youth, thats what I was trying to say. That he's saying that war,and Dickon, I have come to regard this as a war, is a series of countless battles, challenges, etc. In another part in which he describes the true military spirit as amounting to seeing all of ones challenges and difficulties not as a curse that rests upon ones standards but as a shining emblem of ones heritage -- er yeah or something like that. No, your nearly 2 year struggle turned victorious is a shining light for me to follow. Lets see, oh yes the other idiocy of the day is likely to consist in my having spent 140.00 USD /90.3114 GBP on various natural tinctures, supplements etc. (ex: Kava Kava) in the vain hopes that somehow this time [I][B]they will work

Update (FFWD to Day#17): The tinctures / supplements / etc. didn't do squat -- despite being strongly marketed (SWIM did his research) as the 'best of the best', 'super potent', etc.
Conclusion is that the above were either marketed -w- a placebo effect design and/or SWIM's condition is beyond the relatively (compared to synthetic Rx's) gentle nature of natural supplements.

L2: Keep your money and ride it out

Honestly the closest temptation wise to even consider using any questionable additive materialized itself sometime in the twilight hours of the breaking dawn when perusing in desperation various DF posts I ran into mention of Kratom... But again, Dichon, in deference to my high respect for your work and stature on the pages of DF and walking the clean and sober streets of the UK, I didn't give another millimeter of action to the thought of starting a post on said substance (with the hideous backdraft motivation of???!! what re-entering "the research division" No mate, my research has proved to me that this path is a dead end -- the deadest in fact.

Burnz added 10 Minutes and 11 Seconds later...

I think (and I have been known to overanalyze unto paralysis -- to a ridiculous point) , its my level of surrender that is at issue. When you post that eventually sleep will come. I find an impulsive addiction borne desire rising up from deep within talking back to me saying "yeah, well I'd better, bro." or "if I don't there will be DAMAGE"

-- and in the final analysis the above is certainly not a shining example of sober thinking.

Again, friend & Sire-D, my utrmost respects and thanks to you.

Burnz added 9 Minutes and 17 Seconds later...

to be precise ala extremis The last bit about the whole there better be bro. was written in jest. I was trying to comically point out my own imperfect level of acceptance and surrender to whatever the price of freedom from the bondage to this oppressive, tyrannical, life-sucking passion -- if it takes another year until I get even a half night of semi-decent sleep, then so be it and it is good and just.

Last edited by Burnz; 01-09-2010 at 03:55. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #15  
Old 24-08-2010, 07:07
clean13 clean13 is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Burnz,

Someone from a different universe or somesuch is glad to hear you resolve is still there, harness that anger and use it to fight on brother, Swim also believes he was not entirely accurate about the acute stage time frame of methadone withdrawals.

My pet Kangaroo has memories of the more acute stages lasting about a week and a half to two weeks, i mention this not to dishearten but merely to be realistic.
My pet Kangaroo had been clean for over ten years (He was at the point where he felt counting years, months ect. clean was of no significance to him anymore).

My pet Kangaroo will not go into too much detail here as he is planning his own journal thread which he will dictate to me, but suffice to say back in the early stages of this year, in a weak moment, he decided he would resort to a very old coping mechanism to blot out a build up of emotional stuff that he had neglected and let build into an avalanche ready to crash down on him, suffice to say it crashed down on him in this particular way.

Well, the old Pet Kangaroo is pretty tough and at least semi-intelligent and realized pretty quickly when things started to spiral, which they did very quickly and said Kangaroo got himself off to a detox, well in said detox they felt it wise to give Mr Kangaroo Pyseptone tablets to come of a habit that he had already tapered down fairly well, this left Mr Kangaroo to come out of a detox officially "detoxed" with a methadone withdrawal to go through, Mr Kangaroo didn't have many of these tablets but it was obviously enough to make for a two week sojourn through the depths of despair and the darkest recesses of his mind.

It's now been just over 3 months and Mr Kangaroo is suffering from PAWS pretty bad, and regardless of his rekindled (he had had bad experiences before) distrust of the medical fraternity has an appointment next week so as to see a counsellor who also happens to be a psychologist specializing in CBT, he hopes for good things from this.

Mr Kangaroo is still a member of a semi secret lodge (an offshoot from a more structured one that has become a little dogmatic to say the least) and used to be quite active in it, most of Mr Kangaroo's practice involved a lot of meditation and yoga, well from reading through Mr Dickons two threads on withdrawing and post withdrawing he has become inspired to take this up again, he remembers a more self empowered and balanced Kangaroo whilst being disciplined in doing these practices.

Anyway my Kangaroo has talked my ear off whilst having me dictate this, and he apologizes for rambling, but he also says this is a good thing, as PAWS has stopped his flow of thought and his ability to have anything to say for too long now.

Burnz keep up the good fight, you can do it mate, PM me if you need to, i am on the computer fairly often, and if not near the computer have my iDevice which i sometimes use to check the internet.

Stay Strong Everyone,
L.L.L.L
D.
  #16  
Old 24-08-2010, 09:27
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Thanks clean13,

what's the worst symptom in terms of your PAWS youre dealing with right now?

It's 0-Dark-Hundred-hours of day # 10 for me right now and even though I have yet to be able to sleep at all -- I've graciously been granted a temporary reprieve from this obsession. I had resolved to go to an AA meeting which used to be a regular evening event on Monday's back in the days when I was doing better. It turned out to have been a wise and profitable (recovery-wise) thing to do as I came back in better spirits, more energized, and definitely way less scope-locked on the need for SLEEP.

Awesome idea that, getting your kangaroo back into those past activities which left it feeling truer centered.
  #17  
Old 24-08-2010, 13:42
clean13 clean13 is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

You're Welcome Burnz,

Glad you're still with us and fighting fit mate, my pet Kangaroo wants to tell you he thinks its an amazing accomplishment and you should feel empowered by how far you've come.
In regards to your query, my pet Kangaroo would like to say, the hardest part or worst symptoms of PAWS that he is going through would definitely be his inability to communicate the way he would like, sometimes he feels he can't talk even to the ones he loves, it's like he feels he has nothing in him to say, it is the strangest feeling and also has translated across to finding it hard to post on here, but he has found upon dipping his proverbial toe in, that it's not so bad at all and he does seem to have some semblance of something to say.
Other symptoms he is finding hard is lethargy, this lethargy is stopping him from getting out and taking photographs, which is his passion and sometimes his work.
He also seems to have a lowered immune system, as for years now he has hardly been sick, but in the last two months he has been ill a couple of times and it has been rather nasty, the last illness being the flu, which being a lot like w/drawals and made him feel rather down, although he feels he is on the tail end of that illness now (Fingers crossed).
Anxiety is another big one, he guesses if he went to a doctor right now he would be diagnosed with multiple anxiety disorders, although he feels this one is one that can be conquered by turning around the way he thinks and believes it may be tied into another PAWS symptom, the dreaded drop in self confidence....

Anyways, glad to see you are still fighting the good fight mate, glad the meeting you went to helped, anything that helps is a good thing, i have never been partial to meetings myself, but they work for a LOT of people.
Here's hoping morpheus gives you a visit soon and you get some sleep,
Stay Strong,
D
  #18  
Old 24-08-2010, 19:26
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Hi all

Halfway through day # 10 and things are looking up!

I managed 2x glorious bouts of much needed sleep sometime between just before dawn and 11 AM. I was tempted to post that I was actually feeling better as of last night but the thought of "what happens if as soon as I post that, it sets me up to start feeling a lot worse along a Murphy's Law sort of way". Now, SWIM (just in case sleep is considered a self-incriminatioin somewhere in this galaxy of someone elses...) has decided that not posting would constitute a sort of dishonesty.

Rock On, fellow DF's

Burnz added 15 Minutes and 26 Seconds later...

A question: Does anyone know or have any thoughts on how/why PAWS can exceed the time someone spent using their DOC (i.e lets hypothetically say SWIM used cotton candy for 3x mos and his/her/it's PAWS lasts 6x-9x months + ?)

Or is it a cumulative (i.e total, life-long use of any/all substances) thing? SWIM has heard that a rule of thumb is that for every year of active use it takes 1x month to recover (not sure if this was in relation to acute WD's or PAWS, or both, or...)

Best of all to all

Last edited by Burnz; 24-08-2010 at 19:26. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #19  
Old 24-08-2010, 20:06
dugg dugg is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Congratulations, swim is able to relate to the sleep deprivation ,(15th day for them) they didn't even realize it was part of WD,.Can't comment on the PAWS question, but they feel if you go looking for symptoms your always going to find them.Swim believes they need to simply readjust to what normal actual feels like, having not experienced it for 18 months.Swim is still struggling with sleep, today was their 2nd day back at work.
  #20  
Old 26-08-2010, 12:28
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Thanks Dugg,

Re: today was their 2nd day back at work. -- Really feel for you there. SWIM remembers very clearly what it was like when after a fairly significant attempt/time into getting off it's DOC(s), SWIM relates that life seemed to take a true turn for the better -- SWIM got the best job he had in many years and one of the best in swim's life, 6 months later SWIM bought a brand new car (after having spent a number of years w/o one) and things were definitely looking up, up, up. Well, obviously SWIM became complacent, and became convinced that he/she/it no longer had a problem with cotton candy and carrots -- when SWIM triad a controlled experiment to confirm this, all empirical data came back affirming his/her/its deception. SWIM was under the illusion of manageable use [of cotton carrots], approximately 8-9 months later, however SWIM was horrified to find that life was going down the drain -- !FAST!. Now SWIM was trying desperately to get into treatment and stay off carrots and cotton candy long enough to get things back under control... but how does one turn a 2-day "weekend" off into 5-7 days stay at a rehab + at least a bit more time off to get past PAWS? Sick days were heavily penalized at SWIMs employer and SWIM hadn't yet put in enough time to qualify for a medical leave of absence. To sum this rambling up, SWIM states that it had to endure a living hell, using carrots and cotton candy against swims will just to be able to "function" and not lose the excellent position / work swim had until swim could get a good and proper medical leave. Finally, many some months later swim did indeed get its medical leave, then another one, and another extension, until 6 months had elapsed and swim was hospitalized from an OD (yes friends, too many carrots and cotton candy wrecked havoc on swim indeed) and when he came to in hospital several days after swims unconscious admission, swim awoke to the horrible realization that employment was not notified, another extension had been rejected by management and he was close to out the door already, then swim did the only thing left and took the suggestion of his employers human resources division and resigned due to medical reasons -- with assurances from his department head that as soon as swim got better swim would be accepted back into the fold, no questions asked, with open arms. It turns out, as swim later learned, that another department head, unbeknownst to swim, had black-listed swims ability to return to his previous position/department/employment and that was that. SWIM, wishes you a far better outcome than swim had from the bottom of his heart. Stay strong and stay connected! This too shall (one day) pass.

-- Burnz (D)

Burnz added 1017 Minutes and 57 Seconds later...

So...

It's day # 11 and SWIM's pet goldfish has officially entered PAWS stage.

A couple of thoughts on SWIMS fish's mind:

The road ahead opens up like a highway to the minds eye... past roadwrecks littler the surrounding landscape, punctuating the scenery from time to time...

BTW, SWIM's fish doesn't want to hijack this thread. It's been suggested by at least one well-respected friend that SWIM should, perhaps, consider starting its own journal thread. SWIMS fish just hasn't felt worthy-enough as of yet to do this...

SWIM just needs to check in with all right now.

Burnz added 1328 Minutes and 3 Seconds later...

SWIM is now on day #12 / @ approx. 276 hours into the fight of his life. Yesterday nearly took SWIM out. The night before, SWIM gave his dog 6x valerian caps as the poor thing hasn't slept at all these nearly 2 weeks except for a few hours on Day # 10. Da#@ it! SWIM hisses. Burnz can relate to this frustration as he has witnessed SWIMs mounting difficulties doing things like typing which SWIM never had to work at when flying the friendly skies (OH SH*T! How the f--- is SWIM ever going to fly again w/o Xanax??? !!! ) or even during the first 10 days of his WD's [we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress. This thread has been edited for content and time...] Back to SWIMS dog who, despite the valerian, was moping about all night with insomnia. In the morning, SWIM awoke aware that the night had not unfolded as hoped, as well as a rapidly growing full body pain syndrome which became excruciating by approx. 10 AM worst of all, SWIM was such a friggin wreck from the nearly 2x weeks w/o sleep and N000 chemical assistance that its hardwiring was possibly fried, albeit temporarily. Hell, I tell SWIM even the f-n U.S. Navy SEALs culminate their BUDs course with hell week [emphasis on the singular] This seems to draw a conscious response from SWIM who in his youth had trained vigorously, arduously, and mercilessly for this exact course (which is why Burnz said it) [SPEAKING OF WHICH, does anyone here know how to correct the age indicator next to user handles? I essentially joined this site for SWIMs sake and he kept bugging his other friend SWIMa not to post accurate data due to the security risks involved. Well, now that SWIM is no longer using like a fiend and has gained considerable respect, admiration, and "like" for SWIMS fellow Chem.War fighters and the undying truth(since the concept of true, selfless love is currently a foreign concept to SWIM due to the 16 years he spent in the [err... chemical] trenches)... Burnz is now taking advantage of SWIMS renewed interest in focusing on a solution vs obsessing on the problem, in order to send him upstairs on a cofee reconaissance "mission".

Last edited by Burnz; 26-08-2010 at 12:28. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #21  
Old 26-08-2010, 13:52
dugg dugg is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Personally found any caffeine taken in the day would worsen the next night,they had to give it up completely.They found at around the stage Swiy is at the sleep depravation caused depression, far,far worse than the fatigue & insomnia,but over that next 24 hours they took 5HTP and St Johns Wort every 4 hours, and responded very well,with the depression actually gone by the next day.Still taking those supplements daily,as well as the ammino acid Taurine at night with Valerian.They found the ammino acids Tyrosine & DL Phenylalanine very good for increased motivation when you really have got to get on with stuff, but they too can increase insomnia.Their sleep pattern was very similar,virtually none, then every so often a few more hours than the norm,then back to virtually nothing again.Having previously been clinically depressed in the past, they find the insomnia and fatigue at work a very small price to pay by comparison. That said ,they'd be a liar if they said they weren't looking forward to normal sleep again. I realize Swiy would be thankful for the 4-5 hours Swim averages now,but there's only a few days to go & you will.Hang in there,all the best.

Post Quality Evaluations:
Good scientific backing exists. Solid leads. Genuinely Helpful info.
  #22  
Old 26-08-2010, 14:34
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

Dugg,

Nice to see -n- hear from you brother!

Re: the supplements listed --> SWIM's tried all those listed and then some (added glutamine for example). There's a book SWIM read + bought a number of years back which has surveys (GABA deficiency, enkephalin deficient, etc.) basically trying to isolate your key DOC('s) and then correct said deficiency through nutritional supplementation (tons of amino acids: SWIM used to walk out of the health food store having felt like he spent the equivalent on 'supplements' as he would likely have on a kilo of H
Then, it would work, but at the dosages necessary to obtain max. efficiency for SWIM used to leave swim out of a month's-worth of product in approx. 2 weeks time... Just can't afford it, man.

(Burnz)
  #23  
Old 26-08-2010, 14:46
ex-junkie ex-junkie is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

PAWS= a severe form of culture shock.

I know this is a short post but, for now, I am at a loss to delve further into it. It's hard to "find yourself" again in society, when you've built your entire world around drug culture.
  #24  
Old 27-08-2010, 02:13
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

BTW 2 All

The "cofee" I sent SWIM to get turned into a full-blown meal and honestly SWIM said he felt his brain was too fried to have posted what he was going to -- the most important part according to SWIM (could just be his ego though).

The thing was he actually contemplated, even if only intellectually, Commmiting SUICIDE. The way SWIM relates it, yesterday coupled with so many failed (rather, aborted) past attempts, SWIMS own low, low, low sense of self-esteem, and the seemingly insurmountable road ahead left SWIM with this analysis:

SWIM has #3 possible roads, directions to go.
1. The Road Ahead -- felt f-in' IMPOSSIBLE -- even a single step ahead. But not only that, life has begun to step up the pace -- various financial/banking letters have come advising SWIM that action (to retrieve some much needed CA$H) requires immediate attention. Deadline = #10 days. There's so much F-in more to do A personal fave form of WD/PAWS torture of SWIMS consists of the million dollar projects his family always comes up with for him at these times to "help"-out with (i.e. usually do in their entirety). Humble, everyday projects such as, oh lets see, here's a decent example. Family rollls up to SWIMS home, first greeting to SWIM upon seeing him is (85-95% of the time) "Burnz, honey you look terrible, when are you going to stop doing that garbage!!!" Umm, like 2-5 weeks ago. BTW a real head tripper to SWIM was that when he wasn't using he would constantly be accused of "using" (Look at your eyes, your face, do you think were stupid? -- Often culminating in a very loud "YES, Yes, I Do" on the part of SWIM. Whereas when SWIM would relapse his family would tell him "there, now you look like a respectable human being, normal..." Well we need you to help out with some yard-work. When SWIM finally relents and drops by, yard work means work the yard until there's a precise, level yard -- all 3 acres of it, including the boulders lying nearly 80 feet below ground ("we have hammers in the garage" oh, ok, it's definitely doable then) please try and finish by the weekend (and its TH), that sort of thing...

2. The Road Back -- CLOSED, demolished, out-of-order. Come on! I just got out of being in a methadone maintenance program in a state with an active prescription monitoring program (Oh, I see... 18x prescribers of various opiod medications over the course of the last 6 mos. alone, hmmm. Well, since you're dying of pain I'll go ahead and give you #2 ultram don't drive if you take one). I have become so well known at every medical institution/office within 150 miles in any given direction extending from the epicenter of my house.

3. SWIM's 1st sponsor, a very spiritual, peaceful man, once told SWIM the story of his sponsor's early recovery. He was working grave-shift in Alaska for a prison, his wife had just left him -- demolishing his sense of manhood, he was actively drinking and using coke and he found himself looking at his .44 Magnum revolver and saying "well, at least, if things get bad enough, I have you". You see, SWIM's youth was consumed with shooting and SWIM still, though he's gotten rid of 95% of his collection, has ready access to several guns. So here was SWIM, looking down at a box of bullets and #damn-it they were not ideally suited for self-administered head-shots.

See what SWIM means -- all roads closed.

Ended up going to another AA meeting -- did it help? The meeting itself, no -- SWIM could not bring himself to start sharing about the long road past methadone maintenance amidst a group of alcoholics. Go to NA someone suggests, well, that was the 1st fellowship I religiously and whole-heartedly attended: 2x meetings every day for nearly 2 years -- untill SWIM got f-in fed up of seeing his sponsors selling drugs, fucking married women, and generally living dirty in other ways. SWIM couldn't and wouldn't drag his own virtue through the mud with the others so SWIM left and started attending AA. I'm rambling... just thought it was important to get it out there that SWIM spent at least 1x entire night handling weapons suitable for SWIMS demise. Cause "if it gets bad enough, I'll always have you" his sick thinking echoed that of his sponsor so many years back in the Alaskan wilderness.

(Burnz)

P.S. If you think I'm completely mental its ok, I'm sure I am.

Burnz added 3 Minutes and 22 Seconds later...

P.S. Lest the hallowed readers of DF get the wrong impression, when I wrote of SWIMS many failed/aborted "past attempts". SWIM was saying that in reference to attempts at getting off / staying off drugs.

Burnz added 152 Minutes and 47 Seconds later...

SWIM needs to add something...

earlier he had said all roads are closed -- and they are -- temporarily.

SWIM had also said the meeting hadn't helped -- maybe it didn't, but the ride to and from it sure did as he was able to speak frankly about his chemical addiction to a person who had himself walked in those shoes almost 10 years ago.

I was extremely frustrated to find that no one was responding to my posts (in my own space-time-continuum).

But what SWIM learned from that most difficult day is perhaps a formula for getting through future difficult days. That is to say, SWIM now believes he was not at all abandoned by his higher power. Rather, his HP having infinite understanding and vision knew that SWIM needed to learn how to bear difficult moments in life -- W/O picking up! Therefore, his HP froze any possible progress along the 3x roads/paths identified earlier. So that, as Dickon wrote in his "screaming" journal (or wait, maybe this particular piece was from the "dreaming" one -- da&*-it man!) Anyway, Dr. D. wrote another DF-er of the "crucible" and "oven" of recovery where it is necessary to stay until fully baked -- well, what do ya think guys is Burnz's SWIM half-way there yet (i.e. "Half-Baked" ) ??? HA, Ha, HA. Right-on D! (You were right-on!!! (-w- the direction you wrote me when I had addressed you in my time of need)

Oh, yeah, the second thing was there came a point in D's "Dreaming..." Journal when D remarks along the lines of 'Hey where's everybody' it happened to be during some of his more poignantly enforced moments of 'thou shalt not sleep D.'. I just went through the very same thing!!! And, as D's life gradually picked up (w/o D. "picking up" his D.O.C.) so will mine, I both believe and see this clearly now. Thank you benevolent H.P. for granting me yesterday's sufferings -- from which I reap today's joys!

Little by little my life is also picking up. People see that I'm serious and struggling and are reaching out. The guy that took me to last nights meeting has invited me to go fishing an hour from now.

'nuff said

(Burnz)

Burnz added 453 Minutes and 29 Seconds later...

Guys & Gals,

I had a genuine epiphany today. One in which all of the values I had been assigning my current situation were proven FALSE.

If words alone could convey what it means for a sunrise to suddenly arise amidst a cloak of formerly heaviest, oppressive darkness -- rending it into nothingness. Or what it means for a man who in his every fiber believes himself fatally condemned -- to suddenly have a door of purest light open simultaneously in his soul, mind and heart -- convincing him in complete totality that he has been reprieved: he will live, he WILL LIVE!

As I, yes I, not SWIM -- for a good and just, irrevocable reprieve will never constitute a crime in any universe -- floated atop the glass-like waters of New England amidst an almost windless afternoon. I knew for an indisputable fact that I would truly and totally be OK, that all was truly good and just and I knew this for the first time in 11-16 years. As I introspectively and verbally acknowledged the challenges still present vs. the blessings I had known and seen in the twinkling of an eye -- the former became as nothing in contrast to the latter... And that, my fellow friends and DF's, makes all the difference in the world.

I am now, after nearly 16 years of living hell, completely at a level of peace no fake, synthetic source has ever delivered.

Lacta alea est -- the die is cast.

(D)

Last edited by Burnz; 27-08-2010 at 02:13. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #25  
Old 28-08-2010, 18:33
Burnz Burnz is offline
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Re: Post Acute Withdrawal Symptoms (PAWS) Experiences.

SWIM's deepest apologies to all in truth he did not mean to hijack this thread. SWIM's personal recovery has been moved to the Journal: A New Dawn (beyond Opiates dub) thread.

Respectfully yours,

-- Burnz (D)

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