bzp semi-synthhetic semi herbal uk pills

[Benga]

hello all


not knowing wether it's actually ok to name the brand name or not, i'd like to bring up the subject of these commercial "harm reduction" pills sold in the uk, containing ingredients vaguely described as piperazines and a "mix" or "blend" of piperazines, probably the old BZP + T. combo, other ingredients being amino acids and the like (the "herbal" side, probably).


they've been mentioned here before by brand name.


two types were tried on two occasions so far, the regular version and the love variety, which is supposed to be "less anxiogenic".


First of all, they work quite nicely, for those who enjoy clean mild stimulation with, tactile sensation enhancement, mood lifting, slight visual effects (colors shine more, side vision movement). To summarize effects, they make you more energetic, more talkative, then just less tired and feeling fine. Alcohol effects are not felt as much (nice mix, but very easy to overdo and end up feeling bad); smokers smoke more, and they dry out your mouth.


Overall, the effects are very very positive, not too strong but strong enough to make a difference on a good night out, for those who want to feel stimulated, alive and energetic without feeling spaced out or stoned.


Comedowns ? none so far, appart from lack of sleep edginess, an issue which will be developped later. Oh and headaches , the first time, though this was combined with a lot of alcohol ( maybe 8 beers, shots of mandragora liquor, hard to tell). The second time (heavier dose), none were felt, ibuprofen was swallowed before "sleep"


First experience, 1 and a half pills (standard dose being 2) were taken, around 10 pm, while consuming alcohol. we're talking 3 30 year old males (all having taken stimulants, MDMA, hallucinogens before) weighing between 65 and 80 kilos. Nothing special, just "having a beer" and testing the product on a week night. Pills started kicking in about one hour later.


to be mentioned, snorting was tried but given up : too painful.


Visual enhacement : white walls looked whiter, more talkative. Thirsty, alcohol goes down well.


Kidneys : one of the three had to go urinate often, nearly every 15 minutes or so...this went on all night.


Speaking became fast, decided to walk down to the local bar (closes at 2 am). Exercising the legs made the pills go up some more, happy fast stroll, energetic, noticing the increased energy.


Arriving at the bar, very social and stimulated, talkative, drinking.


Very pleasant, near closing time, decided to call it a night.


a little marijuana after all that drinking made one sick ( puke), bad idea for someone who quit smoking cannabis a while back. Falling asleep was ok, but ended up waking up early and unable to do anything but doze afterwards until 12pm...


other experience : a friday night, a group of 8 friends get together and check the pills out before going out. Male and female, ages 25 to 30. Pills are taken in doses ranging from one 1/2 pill ( still felt, person being sensitive to stimulants) to 2 pills (ie standard dose).


2 pills were absorbed the following way : 1 and 1/2 half, then about an hour later, the other half. most consumed a mix of classical and "love" pill, others strictly "love".


Alcohol was also consumed, but more moderately, a few beers and a few shots of whisky, and then beer but spread out over the night, maybe one every hour or so.


Effects were great, everyone pretty much amazed at the potency, and quality of effects, clean, not too much... Slighty empathy, loved up glow, nothing like MDMA in terms of strength, but very nice.


Side effects : dry mouth and ability to drink like a fish, which has to be curbed down, and desire to smoke for smokers. Penile shrinkage in most males ( probably difficult to maintain an erection or ejaculate ). Appetite suppressed. increase in heart beat rhythm. classical stimulant qualities but no jaw clenching / trembling noticed.


So positive, the pills were taken around 9h30/10pm and partying ( bar, then bar with a dance floor) went on untill 5am, no one tired, good mood all around.



the only problem noticed with them were severe stimulation duration issues :


taken around 9h30 / 10pm, a dose of 1 and 1/2 pill or just the standard 2 pills, some found it impossible to get any sleep, even after 6 am, or maybe 3 hours of sleep and then up and wired. All day.


Though the actuall effects are mild and pleasant, residual stimulation seems to last for a very long time, at least mental one, where you feel tired but can't shut down...


a dose of 2 pills taken on a friday night, at 6 am it was possible to sleep but only for 3 hours (some none) even after having danced a few hours during the night, and then impossible until saturday night (naps did not work), and even on saturday night sleep wasn't great... Saturday went through in a stimulated blur, still wired from the night before's two pills (ie a regular dose)


Another issue is the come-on, they seem to take quite a while to kick in, over 1 hour 30. this makes timeline calculation as the effects have basically 2 waves :


First wave is stimulation, then second wave is more euphoric, less energy but just feeling good and not tired.


this side effect on sleep rhythm is a major issue for those seeking a "clean" stimulant : it was found that for some stimulation lasted over 24hours, which is very long, especially if you're "wired but tired"...


the problem with a weaker dose (less than one pill) would be that effects would then be too light. This is probably due to the speculated nature of the pills, BZP stimulation lasting longuer, but since no precise content / dosage information is available, it's hard to know.


and spreading out doses probably increases effect duration...


so a good party pill ? within recommended dose, definately approved by 8 people as a good fun stimulant. Comedowns, side effects ? none apart from a headache for some. no body load either.


found to be way better than all the ephedrine/caffeine based preparations tried, and herbal homemade brews( khat, catuaba, calamus, betel, coca, kanna, skullcap, sidacordif/ mahuang/ ephedra, guarana / kola, passionfloweretc) ever downed.


more "convenient" than cocaine, less moving / rapturingthan MDMA and shattering than speed. and "legal". in these aspects, pretty well placed on a list of boosts for a social, non "drugged up" situation.


but sleep disruption, residual stimulation "the day after"...what would be good after a good night out would be to be able to sleep when you feel you need to without having to knock yourself out with a downer, or a least not be stimulated throughout the next day... this will be investigated in the next attempts.


appart from the duration /timing issue, overall experience was A+ within the prescribed doses.


but very promising little pill for those wanting a mild boost on a night out, the best "legal" non RC stimulant tried so far (never tried GHB and co or analogues, nor methylone)


bEdited by: benga

[Benga]

hum...the manufacturer of these pills has set a forum for discussion of their products. I posted a condensed version of the above post, focusing specifically on these duration issues, a possible drawback / negative effect (the forum was described as a place to discuss, 'love 'em, hate them...).


the post was removed.


not very ethical....and a concern since it seems to point out that these people are more interested in making money than offering a safe product...


edited : my new post on the subject is still there, it might just have been a software problem.


bEdited by: benga

[Alfa]

I have spoken to the company which sells these products about the contents. They do not know what is in their products, besides that BZP and TMFFP are in there in unknown amounts. The product is not produced in the UK, but in New Zealand.


Piperazines are not herbal.Edited by: Alfa

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Alfa

I have spoken to the company which sells these products about the contents. They do not know what is in their products, besides that BZP and TMFFP are in there in unknown amounts. The product is not produced in the UK, but in New Zealand.


Piperazines are not herbal.

that is pretty scary, a company importing products without knowing the actual ingredients, especially as they're sold as a harm reduction uk developped product... they look quite unlike any of the new zealand pills around, so they must be repacked or made for export... still, not good news...


the "herbal" reference comes from the other other supplements used, they are not sold as herbal but as semi-synth (piperazines) semi herbal ( citrus a. or whatever they put in there). But from what i've read on other piperazine pills from new zealand, these must be pretty weakly dosed.


in the prescribed dose no one felt any comedown or negative effects appart from *major* sleep disruption, which does take its toll on the body. This is a definately a drawback if you want something with little side effects but end up wired and sleepless for 24 hours after a mild dose...


it's really strange how the effects are soft and rather pleasant, but you still end up physically stimulated after psychoactive effects have past, must be linked to BZP dosage but other reports on BZP TMFPP pills mention comedowns, hangovers / flu like effects, none of which were felt.

[Sektor]

well swim resides in NZ, and can tell you now, that BZP is nasty shite


firstly the pills are a gut full, then ya get a wicked fever, but other than that, BZP is actually kinda kick ass shite, specially the 'Grunters'!! potent shit.... specially for a legal substance!

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Sektor

well swim resides in NZ, and can tell you now, that BZP is nasty shite


firstly the pills are a gut full, then ya get a wicked fever, but other than that, BZP is actually kinda kick ass shite, specially the 'Grunters'!! potent shit.... specially for a legal substance!

well see that's the point, it's what most people say, what most reports point out but with these anyway, no negative side effects were felt on the two times they were tried first by 3 then by 8 people. must be due to dosage, but apparently they were not the only people trying these that found them clean. no fever, no comedown, no flu like symptoms...


only problem was long lasting residual stimulation.

[Thirdedge]

Some of the early New Zealand BZP and TFMPP pills were pretty rough, but things have improved a lot over the last few years. Some of the newer pills like crank and torque are a lot better. These are smoother and do not have the side effects / comedowns that the early pills had, as least as long as you don,t mix them with too much alcohol.

[Benga]

Originally Posted by thirdedge

Some of the early New Zealand BZP and TFMPP pills were pretty rough, but things have improved a lot over the last few years. Some of the newer pills like red devils, torqueandblue fx are amazing. These are smooth and do not have the side effects / comedowns that the early pills had, as least as long as you don,t mix them with too muchalcohol.

do they still have a very long lasting physical stimulation ?some people felt physically wired (unable to sleep, but not "under influence") for nearly 24 hours after taking a mild dose.


If you take a normal dose of the pills you mention, is it possible to sleep some 10 hours after, regular sleep, and wake up not fresh as a daisy but at least not buzzing ?


b

[Thirdedge]

It varies from pill to pill. Funnily enough Swim finds he can sleep easier on the speedy ones (bzp only), even if he does wakeup still speeding, but he seems to have trouble sleeping on some of the enhancer ones (bzp / tfmpp mix).

[Sektor]

tell you one thing for shure, they aint fucking herbal! lmfao, but on the note about side effects, swis still gets 'em with the new lots, mainly the fever thing, but also guts ache too, not nice, stick to 2 MAX at a time

[Benga]

Originally Posted by Sektor

tell you one thing for shure, they aint fucking herbal! lmfao, but on the note about side effects, swis still gets 'em with the new lots, mainly the fever thing, but also guts ache too, not nice, stick to 2 MAX at a time

well yeah, BZP and and TMFPP...far from it. But if they add some herbal ingredient to them them they label it it "semi-herbal" "semi-synth"...I guess it's a marketing argument because some people believe "herbal" is safer or less damaging on the body, more "natural" and therefore good for you, that kind of logic. "naturally occuring" as opposed to man made...


fever and gut ache...ouch, i would stay away from that...

[Thirdedge]

Yes, there is a lot of confusion here in NZ, most people still refer to the Piperazine pills as herbal highs. This is because they evolved out of herbal highs. The original herbal highs here consisted of guarana, ephedra and lsa, so to combat this the authorities PROHIBITED Ephedrine. So manufacturers started using BZP, at first disguised as a Pepper Extract. By the time the Authorities found out the pills contained chemicals which somewhat mimic the psychical effects of speed and xtc, use of the pills was wide spreed. There had also being a decline in illegal drug use thanks to the pills.

The company,s labeling the pills as semi - synthetic are doing us a favor by being honest. Its the vendors labeling them herbal highs that are in the wrong.

Personally Swim would still rather be able to use speed and xtc, measured and legally, but these pills can come pretty close at least to Speed and are healthy step away from insane PROHIBITION which have seen a huge rise in organized crime and drug related harm here.

This is in many ways a world first, a turn away from PROHIBITION which has failed terribly and toward a HARM MINIMIZATION approach. Now if they,d just re-legalize all the old favorites . . .

[Sektor]

Originally Posted by thirdedge

The origional herbal highs here consisted of guarana, ephedra and lsa, so to combat this the authorities PROHIBITED Ephedra

ephedra prohibited in NZ? dont think so buddy, still widely availabe just about anywhere in NZ where BZP is sold

Originally Posted by thirdedge

There had also being a decline in illegal drug use thanks to the pills. Things have evolved from there really.

now swis reeeeeaaaaaally doubts that...

[Thirdedge]

Ephedra is illegal to sell or consume anyway. Ephedrine was made a class c controlled drug in 2004 as was pseudo-ephedrine. It is now impossible to import Ephedra plants, they even be pricks with the seeds which don,t even contain any alkaloids. It is legal to grow the plant if you already have it, but to consume it would put you in the same grey area as if you were to consume opium poppy, San Pedro, LSA Seeds, DMT plants etc. I called the ministry of health about Sida cordifolia and they tell me thats banned too unless it contains no alkaloids.

[Sektor]

lol, swithirdedge is looking in all the wrong places then.... swis was standing outside a source 10 mins ago, before him are many many herbs/seeds/etc that are able to buy(ephedra being one of 'em, also the HBWR, and many other)

[Sektor]

lol, fucking filthy buggers, they'll start comparing 'em to xtc/etc, next they'll start having ago at how they can change the laws... oh wait.. thats already happening,


FUCKYOU Mr Jim Anderton...

[Benga]

Originally Posted by benga

here's a little update on a good way to enjoy the brit pp pills and not wake up feeling too thrashed, especially if you've been drinking a bit on top.


take one pill early, say around 9pm if you plan on crashing around 5am.


and then go for the liquid lady : Dissolve one or two pills in 3/4 distilled water and 1/4 vodka, and put this in a nasal inhaler (cold/decongestant spray). Spray this throughout the evening, it won't kill your nostrils and absorbtion is good. If you finally decide you need a stronger dose just drink up the liquid. If you want to measure doses, just count the number of sprays you're getting from the bottle, fill it with plain water and count that (, sometime it's actually written on the side), that way you'll know what you're getting. works fine, kicks in about 10 minutes instead of the 45/ one hour you get from the actual pill.


swim thinks the two pill per dose "recommended"dosage is actually quite strong, best stick to one pill if you don't want to be too wired the next day.


and remember to drop ibuprofen before you crash if you want to avoid that bzp headache !


haven't tried the original new zealand pills but these are really good stuff !! hope they don't get banned too quick,non commercialBZP TMFPP pills have been popping up at european raves for a few years, and are watched by the authorities. it might be a matter of months...


b

[Thirdedge]

I wouldn,t recomend inhaling BZP up the nose, its corrosive. The water etc may help but still . . .

People in New Zealand are now starting to plug them, the nightclub toilet floors are covered in unused condoms