shaman question

[spiderman]

I found a website today where you can go visit a tribe in peru and partake of their sacrament yag'e. cost around 700 dollars for being there and doing all of this for 1 week. Round trip where i live (usa) is around 700 dollars to get there and back. So I'm trying to save around 1500 for the whole trip. Wondering if any of you have heard someone going here or participating in this? Sounds pretty interesting.


p.s. What made me interested was alexander shulgin, his homepage where it says "there are many shamans scattered around the world. Find them."

[Pinkavvy]

there are many shamans within the states as well ... look closer .... your cost will be much less.

there are temples all over the country that offer dmt, dipt, ayahuasca, salvia, and many other guided sacrement rituals.

p.s. there are a few of these listed in the sources forum I believe. they can not be listed outside of the sources forum.

Edited by: pinkavvy

[boredINbuffalo]

Originally Posted by pinkavvy

there are many shamans within the states as well ... look
closer .... your cost will be much less.

there are temples all over the country that offer dmt, dipt, ayahuasca, salvia,
and many other guided sacrement rituals.

p.s. there are a few of these listed in the sources forum I believe. they can
not be listed outside of the sources forum.

I was kind of so so on the sources forum before, now I'm almost in pain to
get in. >.<

[Montgolfier]

Originally Posted by pinkavvy

there are temples all over the country that offer dmt, dipt, ayahuasca, salvia...

Is Dipt found in plants? I thought it was a research Chem made in labs?

[Pinkavvy]

Originally Posted by MrCheese

Is Dipt found in plants? I thought it was a research Chem made in labs?

Why must it be found it nature to have sacred and ritualistic powers? 2c-i is also considered a sacred sacriment to some. If you look close enough in transient tribes in the u.s. you'll even come across ritual lsd sacrements. thumbprint anyone?

[spiderman]

Hey thanks pinkavvy you have been of much help, I will have to do some of my own research i guess. Sounds interesting. Ya it was pretty expensive but i would love to be in one of those churchs. I know one where they drink kava lol.

[the blue letter]

Dipt is a man made chemical, but there is a church in NY that believes
DPT to be the divine flesh of christ. There's an archived article
from hightimes a while back abotu the church on the DPT section of
erowid. They're been operating without legal trouble for a long time
now. Abby Hoffman I believe it was tried to start an LSD church
but that didnt fly so I suppose on occasion synthetics can have ritual
use and be accepted around here.

In regards to flying to peru if your looking for an ayahauscha church
there are a bunch in the states. If you want the experiance of learning
from a true ayahauschero

"shaman" you best do your research on your trip. There are some
of those "tours" where they fly you down put you in a shit hotel and
then take you to one of the bigger christian influenced yage churches,
the same kind of shit that you could get at home for a much lower
cost.

If its a shaman your looking for its a much harder trip to find and you
should definately talk to these people and get a feel for them and what
they're about before you fly out there. Just remember though
shaman arent about giving you answers of holding your hand.
They're feared and reveared healers on the cusp of insanity and society
and they're drugs arent just ayahauscha the way its used in the
states. They're very powerful brews that sometimes contain datura
like deleriants and all kinds of crazyness. Know the people who
are taking you down there before you either spend a bunch of money for
something you could get here or get yourself in to deep with some crazy
magic man in the mountains and go screaming through the country side
for two days and end up in a bad situation and have to call the rents
to get them to fly you back home. It's an incredible experiance
and I highly suggest you find a medicine man just know what your
getting into and do your research

[Benga]

From my experience as an anthropologist and ethnomusicologist and having had many discussion with friends who have worked in shamanic cultures, i would definetly say that anyone who organizes tours to "meet a shaman" is not to be trusted.


they're just trying to cash in on the current western fascination for shamanism.


If you want to meet a shaman, do the research yoursef, read some actual *anthropology* books on the subject (Mireille Hellfer if you can get hold of translations in english which shouldn't be too hard), and then make the trip to the country which interests you, in America, Asia (Korea ? Nepal ? Borneo ?) or Siberia, Mongolia... Shamanism exists in many places.


I can hook you up with serious references on the subject if you're interested.


But trust me, if you want real shamanism, you want to be in the most traditional setting you can find, and that implies going there by yourself, not like some guy buying a burger at the drive through.

[the blue letter]

read some of McKenna's works. There was a man who did some
serious research and expriencing of south american shaman
culture. Check out Food of the Gods

[BrugmansiaBrujo]

Yea Pinky, that was sort of a sharp stick in the eye to the newbie who asked the question.



"Oh, it's in the sources forum".



Especially since there is a moratorium on membership upgrades at this
time. Poor newbie, even if he furiously posted quality posts well
past the number required, he could not get to see what you are talking
about.

[Pinkavvy]

Originally Posted by BrugmansiaBrujo

Yea Pinky, that was sort of a sharp stick in the eye to the newbie who asked the question.*

"Oh, it's in the sources forum".

Especially since there is a moratorium on membership upgrades at this
time.* Poor newbie, even if he furiously posted quality posts well
past the number required, he could not get to see what you are talking
about.

That's my fault why exactly? I also said if you do some research you'll find what you're looking for much closer then you think. Most cities have urban shamans now... at least in the circles I run in, they are easy to find.

[Benga]

a little bibliography on shamanism :


Crocker : vital souls, Tucson arizona university press


Delaby : Tungous shamans, Etudes mongoles et siberiennes 7


Devereux :Mohave ethnopsychiatry and suicide, Smithsonian institution


Eliade : shamanism and archaic techniques of ecstasy, Ethnographie, voyages shamaniques 2


Harner, the way of the shaman. A guide to power and healing, Harper and Row


Hatto, shamanism and poetry in northern asia, University of london


Hoppal, shamanism in Eurasia, Herodot


Lewis, ecstatic religion, penguin books


Noll, mental imagery cultivation as a cultural phenomenon : the role of visions in shamanism, Current Anthropology 26


Nordenskiold, an historical and ethnological survey of the Cuna indians, oxford university press


Rogers, the shaman. his symbols and his healing power, Springfield III charles thomas


Rouget, la musique et la transe, Gallimard


Watkins, invisible guests : the development of imaginal dialogue, the analytic press


Edited by: benga

[Skywalker]

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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off">One of the best (and recent) book about shamanism and entheogens is without doubt "Breaking Open the Head" by Daniel Pinchbeck. I strongly recommend it. Peace.</TD></TR>
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[Isochrist]

I have heard of people paying money to go spend a week (or however long
amount of time) with a shaman of whatever ancestory. Usually south
american.



None the less, I thought that I shoud bring this up, because money has
been on my mind lately. I can understand where one would want to go to
someone who has "experience" with a certain drug of plant. It's always
wise to know just what you're getting yourself into, and to have
someone with a lifetime's worth of experience in that with you.



Nonetheless, I feel that while such people are available, the people
that you are really looking for, and of coarse I could be wrong but, I
feel that the the people you are looking for need nor would want any
money from you. In my recent years of sacremental use of chemicals and
plants, I've found that the best person to guide yourself, is indeed
yourself. Who else can you totally trust 100% in?

I realize that the set and setting is what you may be trying to obtain
by going to such people, but for the amount of money that is needed for
such things, I would have to really ask myself if it is what I need in
light of what I want. A few plants obtained and some time spent deeply
contemplating the whole future experience may well pay off cheaper
monetarily, and richer spiritually for you.



Just my 2 cents. Good luck and best wishes to you.

[Sick Jack]

Of close friend of mine is actually partaking to some Santo Daime rituals. They are open to anyone, from all religions without any obligation to be member of the church.

They just ask for a small settlement (10-15 U$) in order to financiate they program in the Amazone, which aims to protect the eco-system where the sacraments are collected.

There is some well-known websites who propose workshops in different south-american countries and the cost is approx. 2000 U$, and this price doesn't include the plane ticket... For this money, you can stay several weeks in Brazil...........

[pabel_giboon]

SWIM spent half a year roadtripping Equator and there were many-many "Ayahuasca tours" mostly in cities close to the amazon´s basing. It costed -can I say how much?- about 30 bucks. You were asked to take bateries, needles, alcohol and etc. to bring it to the shaman so you "trade" it for the ayahuasca.SWIM was very disguisted with that so never did it. But people who has, told me the shamans wore adidas shorts and sport shoes and had rado or even tv sets. Poor people who found a way to live cooking ayahuasca for the gringos. Then the abusive travel agents who take adventage of the shamanic dreams of the tourist and the needs of the locals.
No fun at all. And think od it: would a REAL SHAMAN take anybody to such a deep experience without really getting to know him? I wouldn´t trust any indian shaman whop would take me (whitey) to a spiritual journey. Anyone can figure out that ages ago shamans only worked for thir tribes, maybe welcoming a sigle visitor each in a while, testing him before ofering his knowledge. How could you trust a shaman who accept you trought a travel agency.
Ok I already made my point and started to repeay myself.
Maybe try a white-new-age-shaman instead, at least they share your imaginay background. And if he sells his services as shaman, its just his culture.