If you get caught with Research Chemicals

[Toltec]

Quote> "In essence, to be on the safe side, you should consider RCs to be just as illegal as any scheduled substance. Although your chances of getting prosecuted are lower than for scheduled substances, it can and does happen.


IMPORTANT: If you are busted with RCs, do NOT tell the police what the substance is. I have heard of cases where people got busted with an RC, and they told the police what the substance was, trying to explain that the substance was legal. This is a BIG MISTAKE. First of all, the police aren’t going to believe you when you claim it is legal. Second, you are making it easier for them to figure out what the substance is. THEREFORE DO NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL, AND SIMPLY ASK FOR A LAWYER.


There is a decent chance that the police will not know what the drug is, and will not go to great lengths to figure it out. They may do presumptive tests for cocaine, meth, heroin or other scheduled drugs, and when they realize it isn’t a scheduled substance, they may decide not to pursue charges. It takes money and resources to do something like MS/GC analysis, and they may not bother to go this far. Even then, they may not be able to figure out or prove what the drug is; they will have to bring in expert witnesses to testify about it, and so on.


SO KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT AND FORCE THEM TO FIGURE IT OUT. You’re most likely not going to talk your way out of it, so don’t even try."


Food for thought!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Excellent advice, thanks for sharing.
	good post very helpful info :D
	Good post yes keep your mouth shut but be polite
	Very Good Advice
	really good information to know. Its a good thing to keep in mind.
	some of the best law advice I've seen.
	good advice
	rational, logical

[GDxCAT]

thanks for the helpful advice.

[Solidly-here]

Sometimes it's good to talk to the police.


If a particular RC is not Scheduled, a person can lawfully possess it (but not for the express purpose of Tripping on it). If I had a Gram of 4-HO-DiPT, and for some reason a cop found it on me, I could refuse to talk about it. If I Shut Up, the cop will assume that this "funny" white powder is Coke (or something else Schedule One). On that basis he will want to arrest me, give me a free ride to the station, and then test my Chemical thereat the station.


It is my suggestion to state what the Chemical is (but NOT to say what I plan to do with it). This gives a person the "chance" that he will not be taken in, this will save you from getting to witness the cop performing all of the Chemical tests.


Also, with 4-HO-DiPT, it will give a False-Positive for Cocaine; I know a SWIM who had this experience; he refused to talk about the baggie. After bailing out for $10,000, the Full Test was done. A month later, in Court, the case for Possession of Cocaine was dismissed (or actually, Not Charged by the DA).


If the RC is Schedule One, it would be better to NOT talk. You could always claim that it was someone else's later (after talking to an attorney). And, in California, we have Proposition 36: The first time you get arrested for possession of ANY drug, you can go to a few classes, and then have the case dismissed. But, still, it's better to remain silent.

[Nagognog2]

Those cop test-kits for cocaine consist of a solution of cobalt thiocyanate. If it turns blue, Porky is to think it's coke. I got news for you: Cobalt Thiocyanate will turn blue with most things - including lead paint, acrylic resins, laundry detergent...get the picture?


I would tell Porky that what I have is not illegal. I'd rattle off it's chemical name so fast his head would spin, and tell him if he destroys my private property - that my attornies would be all over him like an under-fed Rottweiler. If he wanted to know whatit's for, he'd get the same answer I always give when they demand my Social Security number: None of your business.


But that's just me.

[Pino]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Those cop test-kits for cocaine consist of a solution of cobalt thiocyanate. If it turns blue, Porky is to think it's coke. I got news for you: Cobalt Thiocyanate will turn blue with most things - including lead paint, acrylic resins, laundry detergent...get the picture?


I would tell Porky that what I have is not illegal. I'd rattle off it's chemical name so fast his head would spin, and tell him if he destroys my private property - that my attornies would be all over him like an under-fed Rottweiler. If he wanted to know whatit's for, he'd get the same answer I always give when they demand my Social Security number: None of your business.


But that's just me.

This is also a fine advice for the Netherlands and maybe for more countries in Europe too. It is forbidden just to confiscate your property here. Swim clearly scribes on packages what is in it. He doesn't state where it is used for and he keeps it in a safe. One has to officially take distance from your private property. They can force you of course, but it will be difficult. Also one has to ask the officers name and id number. Really handy, if the gentleman starts to act a bit rude. Swim really doesn't like that behaviour. He is attitude to his best friends can be best described as beyond gentle. He would like to see some gentleness in return.

[snapper]

Actually, even better, find your favorite neutraceutical or smart drug, and
indicate that, as far as you know, the product is just piracetam or
something along those lines. If they do GC or NMR, you are in trouble
anyway, but you can always fein ignorance when they confront you about
the misidentification -
Saw that one on cops once - guy got pulled over with a baggie of
something and said is was some kind of bodybuilding supplement
(androstenediol or something along those lines..).
They tested it and let him go..

Snapper

[Pinkavvy]

Toltec - you are right.

Per swims attorney, who specializes in RCs, it is best to say nothing at all. Swim has had a very close friend get busted with 2c-i, and what saved her in the end is that she was charged with possession with intent to distribute something that it wasn't ... when swim and firneds lawyer handed lab test results to the prosecuting attorney with a brief of it's legality, the charges were dropped instantly. (that is 3 months after arrest. no she wasn't in jail the 3 months either, a simple 12 hours after arrest she was released awaiting pre-trial motion court hearing.)

If you tell a pig what it is and that it is legal, they will not believe you plain and simple. So in addition to getting arrested (which will happen either way) you are also telling them what it is and what to test for. Next, the prosecuter just has to show that you are intending it as an ANALOG or even worse just show that it's effects are similar enough to a scheduled substance to be an analog.

The best advice, when caught with any drug, including grey-area legal unscheduled RC's, is to shut the fuck up and grin when they arrest you for possesion of an scheduled substance. Being arrested for a scheduled substance, when it is infact not a scheduled substance, and then not saying anything, is your best chance to get off.

If you can't afford an attourney that specializes in RCs, make sure you have information to give to your lawyer. Most non-specific defence lawyer do not know what RC's are. Tell your lawyer what it is, that it is legal, and send them to erowid for information.

Swim recomends to all that play with rc's at a level bigger than 1 gram a year, to put a retainer on one of the RC-Savvy lawyers listed in the law forum.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great advice, thanks.

[chaos69]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

The best advice, when caught with any drug, including grey-area legal unscheduled RC's, is to shut the fuck up and grin when they arrest you for possesion of an scheduled substance. Being arrested for a scheduled substance, when it is infact not a scheduled substance, and then not saying anything, is your best chance to get off.

swiC's brother was once actually arrested with methamphetamine and didn't talk to the cops and they must have thought it was coke cause he was charged with possessing cocaine. when test results showed his meth did not contain cocaine his charges were dropped. so shutting up and letting them fuck the investigation up would definitely be swiC plan is said situation.

[oldman]

I agree with pink and toltec, having been arrested for possession and talking to cops is what turned me into an oldman before my time. They acted like they were going to be cool and try to help me out for being cooperative but it was pure B.S.


The D.A. was willing to plea it down to a disorderly conduct $100 fineand the prosecuting or officer that charged me refused to go along with that, saying he thought there was more going on than I wass telling him. pig fucker, he was wrong. his gut insinct cost me a whole lotta money and headache and will continue to do so for years to come.


My lawyer's best advice was that under NO circumstances whatsoever do you ever talk to a cop, unless in need of serious medical attention, and then only maybe.I was naive and well stupid to the ways of the law. That cop lied at the arrainment about things I had said. My lawyer said that it didn't matter, he was a cop, sworn to uphold the law and without a burden of proof, his testimony would prevail in court. Don't provoke them and don't give them anything they could possibly construe to use against you. Call a freakin lawyer. I keep mine's number (home, vacation home, and office)programmed on my phone.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Vry good and true advice about cops telling lies!!

[blindpanda_eric]

Originally Posted by Solidly-here

Also, with 4-HO-DiPT, it will give a False-Positive for Cocaine;

This goes with "Know Your Substance." You should really always
know when something is going to test positive for a scheduled
substance. (I'm sure this info is available somewhere)

[acolon_5]

That is the best advise I have ever heard. Tell them nothing. No cop in his/her right mind will just take your word for it that it is legal. You will be going for a ride, and the less they know the better. It is a lot better to have to spend a few hours in a holding cell than 2-3 years on probation with p tests. Do what you will, but neither swim or I would ever give poliece information about anything, anytime, anyplace, for any reason (except the obvious reasons, fire, someone is in danger...etc)

[nanobrain]

tell nothing. that said field tests now show false positive for many legal RCs - search microgram bullletins, there's plenty of info on forensic ID.

go around your house and marquis / mandelin / robadope random powders and stashes, you'll be surprised @ what you discover.

never have doses which in any way may be attributed to intent to consume / distribut for same. get a good lawyer.

get a relevant degree, a real business and a legitimate research porpoise. or monkey ;-)

a GC/MS + HPLC multi-column array rigged to an NMR plus a handy Cray superstack may either arouse or allay LE suspicion.

Branded lab coats are handy as proof, as are Large Hadron Supercolliders.Edited by: nanobrain

[oldman]

what would be considered relevent research?


it specifically says research may not be conducted on any human, animal, plant,....that kinda narrows it down a little so "everybodydon't bother with the monkey business" lol.


I work with animals and figure that research on them would not bedeemed appropriate by authorities. I don't like that anyway.

[Pinkavvy]

Swim uses chemicals in his ongoing research to find a compound that safely keeps ants away from sugars.

It's a shame that swip keeps accidentally running across swims chemicals and confuses it with sugar. stupid swip.
Edited by: pinkavvy

[nanobrain]

^smack that swip up!

[oldman]

swims thinking that you'll not qualify because of the insecticide clause (may not beexperimented as such). He's been using it to see if it will be affective in killing poison ivy, then poison oak, then poison sumac, then ?

[Jonah]

hardly ever anymore. dont feel the need for guinea pigging when there is dmt, mescaline, mushrooms, and marijuana withing grasp. just mho.

[Jonah]

Originally Posted by Solidly-here

Sometimes it's good to talk to the police.

Nah, i think i'd save that one for my lawyer... : /

if you're caught with a baggie of mysterious white powder, might as well take it on the chin and go to court where you have a chance, instead of fucking around with a cop so he can write a report.

[XtomX]

I live in Australia and had the cops find 4-ho-dipt, 2c-e and BZP/tmfpp in my room. I told them what it was, they didn't belive me and tried to tell me it was H or something. Havent heard anything from them since (that was 4 months ago)

[snapper]

I think that unless the product is scheduled, it would be not worth the
prosecution, at least in the US. There have been few if any documented
prosecution for RC use or possession yet, and this will probably continue
until all are scheduled. It is very difficult to prove use, and the FDA wants
to keep that pandora's box we call the analog act closed since it will
create a HUGE problem for the pharm industry. Best to not talk to cops -
when they figure out they have no controlled substance, they are likely to
give up.
Even when they busted all the RC vendors here, clients were not
aggressively pursued except to be witnesses.

Snapper

[moracca]

hahaha I just had the funniest image in my head of a cop dabbing his finger into a baggie of unmarked RCs and tasting it to see if it's cocaine. That might make the whole experience worth while :P

[pissdrunkparker]

Originally Posted by moracca

hahaha I just had the funniest image in my head of a cop dabbing his finger into a baggie of unmarked RCs and tasting it to see if it's cocaine. That might make the whole experience worth while :P

Poetic justice!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Sorry you weren't around when the conversation was happening. This adds nothing.

[EyesOfTheWorld]

Originally Posted by moracca

hahaha I just had the funniest image in my head of a cop dabbing his finger into a baggie of unmarked RCs and tasting it to see if it's cocaine. That might make the whole experience worth while :P

SWIM heard an anecdotal story (this may or may not be true) that a bus full of hippie-types headed for a Dead show was pulled over by 2 LE's, and thoroughly searched under the usual bullshit "I smell marijuana" "probable cause" that they love to use whenever a vehicle full of obvious degenerates is pulled over. Anyway, a thorough search was conducted, no marijuana was found, but a gram (or half gram, cannot remember through the haze of years since swim heard this story) of crystal LSD was found. Of course, the LE's began to ask is it crack, meth, etc? No one gave answers, so the 2 LE's did the taste test, good fingerprint sized taste tests, and remarked that it was not coke or meth but was obviously some sort of drugs so it would have to be tested. Hereupon, the busload realizes that if they can just keep the pigs occupied for 20 minutes or so, they can probably escape, so they start bullshitting with them, some telling jokes, some being belligerent, some playing Mr. Niceguy (basically our side's version of "Good Cop, Bad Cop"....anyway, bullshittery continues for about 20-30 minutes until both Porkies complain of feeling "sick" and decide to go to their cruiser "for air" and to test the drug. They did not make it to the cruiser, as they decided to crawl around on the ground outside and eat dirt, grass and rocks. The bus got the fuck outta Dodge and the cops didn't notice or care.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	I hope that's true
	The visuals on that story amazing. Good post made my day.

[boomerenfuego]

I just have to say I love stories like moracca's and Eyes'. They just make my day. I honestly think there should be a thread of getting out of encounters with authority figures with drugs if it is not there already.

[bLuE]

Originally Posted by moracca

hahaha I just had the funniest image in my head of a cop dabbing his finger into a baggie of unmarked RCs and tasting it to see if it's cocaine. That might make the whole experience worth while :P

oh wow that would be a great story

Reputation Comments on this post:

This adds nothing to the thread, revolves around how someone unknowingly taking a massive dose of RCs would make a good ...