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Drug testing discussion What can you do against drug testing & more...

 
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  #1  
Old 26-03-2010, 17:58
xMeTaL HeAdx xMeTaL HeAdx is offline
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Length of time of marijuana in system

If SWIY looks on this page, http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi..._testing.shtml

SWIY will see that for daily use of cannabis, the length of time it will be in the system can be anywhere from 7-30 days. Now for someone in good shape, works out a lot, drinks plenty of water, thin, could that person really pass a drug test after not smoking for 7 days? Seems a bit far fetched to me. Any thoughts?
  #2  
Old 26-03-2010, 18:00
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

It depends on several factors. Swiy has addressed many of them, but I have a couple of other questions.

Is swiy male or female?
What is swiy's age?
Does swiy have an idea of the amount of body fat swiy has?
And probably most importantly, How much does swiy smoke and how often?
  #3  
Old 26-03-2010, 18:02
xMeTaL HeAdx xMeTaL HeAdx is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
It depends on several factors. Swiy has addressed many of them, but I have a couple of other questions.

Is swiy male or female?
What is swiy's age?
Does swiy have an idea of the amount of body fat swiy has?
And probably most importantly, How much does swiy smoke and how often?
p

SWIM Is a male, early 20s, Not sure about the body fat but SWIM is in good shape, SWIM has smoked daily a couple bowls a day for about 2 weeks. SWIM didn't smoke maybe a day or 2 in those past 2 weeks.

Also, SWIM is planning on doing the whole diluting thing too, drinking water before test, Vitamin B-2, and aspirin. Any other tips would be helpful.

Last edited by xMeTaL HeAdx; 26-03-2010 at 18:07. Reason: added something
  #4  
Old 26-03-2010, 18:07
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

THC and friends have a tendency to accumulate in the body fat of the user over time. This means that higher amounts of body fat, and smoking chronically for a longer period of time, can increase the amount of time it takes for a user to test clean. A user who smokes a small amount once and has very little body fat could potentially test clean after only a few days. Unfortunately, there are a lot of factors involved in the elimination of THC and metabolites from the body and it's impossible to say with certainty exactly how long one needs before testing clean.

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For pointing out that there is no 100% definitive answer. There are many factors.
Succinct answer; points out the factors
good post; answers all the questions, as best they can be answered, at least!
  #5  
Old 21-04-2010, 09:32
iamthelolrus iamthelolrus is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

SWIM smoked a small joint last Friday and has a drug test on this Friday (or at least, he thinks he does, it's the day of his interview at Target).

At the time that he smoked, he hadn't even been called back yet by Target, he's not quite dumb enough to smoke a week before an interview.

What I'm wondering are (and this is probably quite obvious) the chances of this particular fellow passing the drug test. He weighs about 250 pounds, am 5'9" ish (yeah, kinda fat), and has been smoking about once a week for a while (smoked every other day over winter and spring breaks, but spring break was probably about a month ago).

It's really not a huge deal, it's just that if he fails this one, then he has to apply for more jobs, and he's pretty goddamn lazy. If any of you ladies or gentlemen could help SWIM out with this, it would be greatly appreciated.

On a side note, a friend of mine has gotten several jobs where he has smoked the day before the drug test (apparently they didn't care about weed). Any chance this could happen with Target?
  #6  
Old 21-04-2010, 19:19
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

If swiy is only using marijuana once a week, 3 days should be plenty of time for it to clear the system.
  #7  
Old 22-04-2010, 01:10
zenarrrow zenarrrow is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Hey I know this dude ( who doesn't burn down but 3 times a year ) who burned down on friday did not have to work until thursday night the next week. Got nervous and bought a drug test at home test and pissed clean on monday, last I heard he was gonna burn down more often now.
  #8  
Old 22-04-2010, 01:16
Euthanatos93420 Euthanatos93420 is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
If swiy is only using marijuana once a week, 3 days should be plenty of time for it to clear the system.
That's absurd. If anything heavy smokers are liekly to clear out their system faster than occasional users. 3 days is an absurdly short time to suggest anyone could clear out their system of marijuana for a drug test.

If you truly believe this then we're gonna need to see some references that fly in the face of every other study conducted on the metabolic rates of THC.
  #9  
Old 22-04-2010, 01:31
zenarrrow zenarrrow is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

how do you figure? if thc is stored in the fat cells how a heavy user get cleaner faster? you shouldn't be giving out misinformation. a casual user won't have any build up in his/her fat. I tested clean after two days. last time I smoked was in august.

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you didn't smoke anything. Watch out for self incrimination. No points taken because newb
  #10  
Old 22-04-2010, 01:37
Euthanatos93420 Euthanatos93420 is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenarrrow View Post
how do you figure? if thc is stored in the fat cells how a heavy user get cleaner faster? you shouldn't be giving out misinformation. a casual user won't have any build up in his/her fat. I tested clean after two days. last time I smoked was in august.
A heavy long term user will have a metabolism specifically adapted to processing the large quantity of THC that is normally in the system. This does not go away the moment one stops smoking. This is not a universal case but it is shown to have happened in many case. I"d have to do some digging to pull up the reference I had for it. If I can't find It I'll post back saying so.

ALso, you are not Swiy.

I shoudl clarify that by 'heavy' I am not refering to a person's weight but their average daily use. Sorry if that was misunderstood.
  #11  
Old 22-04-2010, 01:49
zenarrrow zenarrrow is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Swim is a heavy 230 6'1. His wife once burned down on a friday a casual user too. Got a job on monday and passed the test.

I have been freakin' out reading everyone saying it stays in your system for 30 days. I do not believe it. IF, and I mean if, you only burn down once a month or less.

Go to walgreens and buy a athomedrug test for marijaunia, says it is 99.9 accurate. same type of test my work gives dipstick in urine, 2 lines means you pass even if faint and only one line means you are hot.

After 2 days swim tested clean, I do not know what to think. If you burn down every other day or once a week, I would be more skeptical. If you do you should not get a job that requires a drug screen....

Why does target require a drug screen, ridiculous in my honest opinion. What are you gonna do stock the cheetoes where the lays wavy chips are supposed to go?
  #12  
Old 22-04-2010, 15:59
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Euthanatos, I understand your logic, but I do disagree with it.

First, most references suggest that a single use of marijuana is cleared from the system within 3 days. A user would likely have to smoke more often than this for there to be a significant buildup of THC and metabolites. I can provide some references for this.

Second, your suggestion does not take into account the extreme lipid solubility of THC and metabolites. When a chronic marijuana smoker smokes their adipose tissue slowly becomes more and more saturated with THC. Once this occurs, the THC will only slowly leak out of the adipose tissue over time. It has nothing to do with metabolism at this point. What you are suggesting is that the THC will be converted into more water soluble metabolites before it can be sequestered by adipose tissue. And you are correct, to a degree. But there will still be a lot of THC that won't be metabolized so quickly and will be stored in adipose tissue. It's for these reasons that such a large difference exist between a single use of marijuana and chronic use. Chronic users of marijuana can easily test positive for up to 3 months after their last smoke. While a single use marijuana smoker needs only 3 days to clear their system.

And actually, some more recent findings suggest that these times may even be shorter, but I would err on the side of caution. The following is an excerpt from the NORML (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws) news archive.

Quote:
Marijuana Detection Time Shorter Than Previously Assumed
February 23, 2006 - Columbia, MO, USA


Columbia, MO: The length of time cannabis metabolites may be detected, on average, on a standard urine screen is typically no longer than ten days for chronic users and between 3-4 days for infrequent users, according to a literature review published in the current issue of the journal Drug Court Review.

"Recent scientific literature indicates that it is uncommon for occasional marijuana smokers to test positive for cannabinoid [metabolites] in urine for longer than seven days" at 20 ng/ml or above on the EMIT (Enzyme Multiplied Immunoassay Technique) test, the author concludes. "Following smoking cessation, chronic smokers would not be expected to remain positive for longer than 21 days, even when using the 20 ng/ml cannabinoid cutoff."

When tested at the 50 ng/ml cutoff threshold, infrequent users typically test negative for the presence of marijuana metabolites within 3-4 days, while heavy users typically test negative by ten days after ceasing use, the study found.

While several clinical trials from the 1980's found cannabis metabolites to be identifiable in the urine at low concentrations for longer periods of time, particularly in heavy users, the author suggests that more advanced drug-testing technology has narrowed this window of detection.

"As cannabinoid screening tests evolved, these improved assays became more selective in the manner in which they detected marijuana metabolites," the author writes. "As detection specificity increased, the length of time cannabinoids were being detected in urine decreased. ... Therefore, the results of cannabinoid elimination investigations performed in the 1980's may no longer be applicable to estimating the detection window for marijuana in urine using today¹s testing methodologies."

After reviewing data from more recent clinical investigations of chronic marijuana smokers, the author reports that the "average detection window for cannabinoids in urine at the lowest cutoff concentration of 20 ng/ml was just 14 days." However, the author also notes that a minority of subjects continue to test positive for cannabis metabolites after 28 days, even when tested by more advanced drug-testing technology.

Approximately 55 million drug screens are performed annually in the United States. The majority of these are workplace urinalysis tests, which detect the presence of drug metabolites (inert byproducts produced after a substance is metabolized by the body), but not the substance itself. Consequently, the US Department of Justice affirms that a positive drug test result for the presence of a drug metabolite "does not indicate ... recency, frequency, or amount of use; or impairment."

For more information, please contact Paul Armentano, NORML Senior Policy Analyst, at (202) 483-5500. Full text of the study, "The marijuana detection window: Determining the length of time cannabinoids will remain detectable in urine following smoking," is available online at: (link broken)

updated: Feb 23, 2006

EDIT: An additional reference on the subject: http://www.ndci.org/sites/default/fi.../DCR.VI__2.pdf
An excerpt from this paper:
Quote:
In a recent forensic publication, Dr. Marilyn Huestis wrote: “Monitoring acute cannabis usage with a commercial cannabinoid immunoassay with a 50-ng/mL cutoff concentration provides only a narrow window of detection of 1–2 days,” (2002). In a 1985 article by Ellis et. al., researchers concluded; “that under very strictly supervised abstinence, chronic users can have positive results for cannabinoids in urine at 20 ng/mL or above on the EMIT-d.a.u. assay1 for as many as 46 consecutive days from admission, and can take as many as 77 days to drop below the cutoff calibrator for ten consecutive days.”
Note the cutoff on the second reference in that paragraph. It's using 20 ng/mL which is not used for common drug tests. The common cutoff is 50 ng/mL. A lot of the research conducted in the 1980's regarding extremely long periods of detection is now being debunked due to the change in cutoff level. The 20 ng/mL cutoff was too low and a lot of false positives were showing up. I think this is plenty of references. If anyone still doubts, do some research for yourself. There's lots of references which say the same thing about acute marijuana use versus chronic marijuana use.

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Well reseached info

Last edited by Jasim; 22-04-2010 at 16:12.
  #13  
Old 01-07-2010, 11:19
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Okay, SWIM is just using logic here, no studies or proven facts. That said, if SWIY is smoking his/her ass off and has a lot of fat to store THC in, then SWIY ought to be high days later, or GET high when excited, when adrenalin rushes happen, when working out, etc. But that's not the case. So maybe someone could explain to me how there are detectable levels retained over a long period of time, but one doesn't get high all over again when working out or somesuch.

Last edited by SWIMclub; 01-07-2010 at 11:20. Reason: Changing notification interval for this post. No other changes.
  #14  
Old 01-07-2010, 18:52
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Fat stores with THC does affect a high, but it does not make one high. Keep in mind that for many drugs the levels may be high enough to trigger a positive on a test when the subject is not high at all. A lot of factors go into this. One has to consider that tests also detect metabolites (which usually don't make a subject high) and the detection limits are lower that the amount needed to make one high. Think about an extremely low dose of a drug which may show up, but is not enough to make a user high.

Fat stores with THC does affect a high though. Chronic smokers get high faster and with less marijuana than naive users. This is because the fat tissue has to reach some degree of saturation before the THC becomes available to float around in the body. This also explains why some people can't get high the first time they smoke, but consecutive times they may.
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Old 01-07-2010, 19:53
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Interesting. SWIM has plenty of fat supply, and is a lightweight. On the other hand, SWIM's friend is very thin and can smoke several times as much without being overwhelmed by it.
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Old 01-07-2010, 20:30
JackARoe JackARoe is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

SWIM drove himself nuts doing research and research about how long the metabolites of THC stay in SWIM's system. The word was 7-90 days which is maddening when someone wants to know. 90 days? It's amazing what people read on the internet.

SWIM took matters into his own hands when he did smoke regularly and daily so he remembers well. SWIM could not rely on heresay, so testing strips that many offices use to test were purchased. Here's what SWIM found. SWIM is thin and has a fast metabolism. 11 days after regular daily use tested SWIM clean. However, 3 days out SWIM drank lots of water and tested negative. 8 days out no water and a solid urine tested positive. It wasn't till 11 days that SWIM could count on a negative. Since then a single use in a month could be negative in 3 days. Twice a week would take 7 days.

The point is everyone is different and looking on the internet won't work. Know yourself. Know how your own metabolism is. Someone else may be different. But one thing is for sure, SWIM has never heard anyone take the fullk 30 days even after very heavy use. 21 days tops.

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perfect answer and well written. +10
absolutely fabulous advice.know your self
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Old 01-07-2010, 21:03
Euthanatos93420 Euthanatos93420 is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWIMclub View Post
Interesting. SWIM has plenty of fat supply, and is a lightweight. On the other hand, SWIM's friend is very thin and can smoke several times as much without being overwhelmed by it.
This has to do with metabolic rates. Swiy's skinny friend has a higher metabolism and processes chemicals faster than Swiy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasim View Post
Fat stores with THC does affect a high, but it does not make one high. Keep in mind that for many drugs the levels may be high enough to trigger a positive on a test when the subject is not high at all. A lot of factors go into this. One has to consider that tests also detect metabolites (which usually don't make a subject high) and the detection limits are lower that the amount needed to make one high. Think about an extremely low dose of a drug which may show up, but is not enough to make a user high.

Fat stores with THC does affect a high though. Chronic smokers get high faster and with less marijuana than naive users. This is because the fat tissue has to reach some degree of saturation before the THC becomes available to float around in the body. This also explains why some people can't get high the first time they smoke, but consecutive times they may.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Some cannaboids might be removed from the bloodstream by the minuscule amounts of lipids present but smoking is the absolutely MOST DIRECT ROA to the brain. It is faster than IV. The chemicals reach the brain long before the cannaboids of any smoker of any weight ever have a chance to be absorbed into the body's lipids.
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Old 01-07-2010, 23:21
Jasim Gold member Jasim is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

It's really not just fat, it's lipid containing tissue in general. In fact, there are lipids in all cells (cell membranes and various other cellular components are made of it). The extreme lipid-solubility of THC has been demonstrated and there a numerous studies on the pharmacokinetics and sequestration of THC in brain tissue and other high-lipid containing tissues. Furthermore, the fact that marijuana users extend detection times well beyond that of most other drugs when smoking marijuana chronically and that these detection times contrast dramatically with non-chronic use (which shows a more normal detection period) provides more evidence of sequestration of THC in lipid-containing tissue.

Smoking causes the drug to be absorbed by capillaries in the lungs into the bloodstream. The bloodstream then carries the drug to the brain. There's plenty of exposure to lipid-containing tissues before even getting to the brain, but if that isn't enough consider the brain itself. Glial cells outnumber neurons and are composed primarily of lipid (google "Myelin").

When a drug is sequestered (that means held or captured) the drug is not free to interact with receptors to cause an effect. When a drug is released from being sequestered it may become sequestered again. It's an equilibrium (Le Chatlier's?).


This is getting off topic. We can continue via PM or in an appropriate thread.
This is all pharmacokinetics, you may be interested in doing some reading on the subject.

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Great simple explanation on biology for those unfamiliar
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:17
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

You saying that it hits the arteries from the lungs, which is the most direct, shortest route to the brain, as opposed to infusion in a vein? Because otherwise, they're both essentially IV -- one administered into the bloodstream via the lungs, the other via syring or catheter. But it doesn't much matter. Both do the job quite adequately. The gold-plated bullfrog under my bed thanks you.!
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Old 02-07-2010, 01:19
Euthanatos93420 Euthanatos93420 is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

IV gets diluted in the bloodstream before it goes to the heart and is diluted again before it goes to the lungs and back to the heart...once again....and then hits the brain. SMoking is lungs->heart->brain.

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Good additional info!
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:30
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

According to a certain online encyclopedia, the half life for thc is listed as 2-59 hours (!). Does anyone know how to explain this massive range, 2 hours to over 4 days for the half life?!

Swim thinks this is relevant because if the half life for a person is nearer to the 48hr mark, then it will take quite long for the metabolites to appear in the first place, and even longer for metabolite excretion to begin (which is what drug tests test for)...

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Good question. Cudos, but no point, for asking it.
  #22  
Old 02-07-2010, 04:59
imyourlittlebare imyourlittlebare is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

The half-life for pot is 20-30 hours. Thats according to neuropharmacology book by Meyer & Quenzer, 2005. Pot will last for days and even weeks for some people for several reasons. First, the body does not alter its liver function to get rid of THC faster like other drugs (ex: barbiturates). Second, When blood levels are high of THC, clearance occurs more rapidly. However, as blood levels drop, the rate of clearance is also reduced. Finally, as previously mentioned, THC is absorbed in the fat. The gradual movement of THC and fat-soluble metabolites (11-hydroxy-THC, 11-nor-carboxy THC/THC-COOH) back out of fat stores means that THC-COOH tests can detect the presence of THC metabolites more than 2 weeks following a single marijuana use. THC and the metabolites are sequestered into fat stores and while one may be in great shape, everyone has fat. Hope that helps.

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Good answers, and I liked the sig file
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:02
SWIMclub SWIMclub is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Doesn't sound like a reliable/accurate statement. Half-life can vary based on composition but shouldn't be that dramatically different for the same substance.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:11
imyourlittlebare imyourlittlebare is offline
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWIMclub View Post
Doesn't sound like a reliable/accurate statement. Half-life can vary based on composition but shouldn't be that dramatically different for the same substance.
Yeah 2-59 hours seems ridiculous but im confused what you mean? composition of the chemical?

Half-life can get more variable depending on the routes of administration. Shooting up heroin vs. intranasal. Or barbiturates. Someone whos never taken secobarbital would have it in their system SIGNIFICANTLY longer than someone who has been taking the drug for years bc of alterations in liver enzyme functioning.
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:22
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Re: Length of time of marijuana in system

Da monk-ey in da clothes-et was referrin' to MJ, rather than THC specifically. THC should, by definition, have ONE half-life, which may be reduced by other forces acting against it (and you provided examples of such forces.)

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