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Amphetamine Amphetamine AKA speed

 
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  #1  
Old 25-03-2010, 10:23
Roads Roads is offline
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Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

SWIM has tried searching for a thread that detailed a milligram-to-milligram comparison between the two, but couldn't really find one, Google didn't help much either, so his apologies if this is a re-post. w/e

Similarly, heroin is often compared to morphine and is said to be 2-3 times "stronger", and there are charts on the internet that compare opiates using morphine or codeine as a base, so SWIM's questions are:

How many times more potent is a dose of meth. vs the same dose of D-amphetamine? Also, is there any kind of chart or diagram somewhere on the net that you SWIMmers may know about that compares the various stimulants (nicotine, caffeine, ritalin etc) to each other?

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Interesting discussion topic. Cheers

Last edited by Roads; 25-03-2010 at 10:59. Reason: expanded the scope of the post
  #2  
Old 26-03-2010, 00:47
fizzle fizzle is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

Swim does not know much about meth, but would assume that for the most part it is cut with something, so doing a mg to mg comparison would be very difficult. Perhaps a Desoxyn (prescription meth) compared to dextroamphetamine would be a more accurate comparison. Sorry Swim can't provide much else, but here is a thread that might help:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21828
  #3  
Old 29-03-2010, 22:42
100mg Methylphenidate 100mg Methylphenidate is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

Im pretty sure methamphetamine is about twice as potent as dextroamphetamine dosage wise.
  #4  
Old 02-04-2010, 12:11
allyourbase allyourbase is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

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Originally Posted by 100mg Methylphenidate View Post
Im pretty sure methamphetamine is about twice as potent as dextroamphetamine dosage wise.
quite the opposite. recreational methamphetamine doses start around 20 mg; whereas one can feel as little as five mg of d-amphetamine. the primary difference is the onset and duration. methamphetamine has both a longer onset and a longer duration as it has to be processed metabolically. "peak" duration for dextroamphetamine vs racemic methamphetamine is at least an hour longer (in swims experience). methamphetamine seems to occupy a rather unique space as an analog of amphetamine, any longer of a chain at the nitrogen and it would lose both duration of action and further lose potency.

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Very informative post.
  #5  
Old 05-04-2010, 22:24
Roads Roads is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

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Originally Posted by allyourbase View Post
quite the opposite. recreational methamphetamine doses start around 20 mg; whereas one can feel as little as five mg of d-amphetamine. the primary difference is the onset and duration. methamphetamine has both a longer onset and a longer duration as it has to be processed metabolically. "peak" duration for dextroamphetamine vs racemic methamphetamine is at least an hour longer (in swims experience). methamphetamine seems to occupy a rather unique space as an analog of amphetamine, any longer of a chain at the nitrogen and it would lose both duration of action and further lose potency.

SWIM has seen surveys of how pleasurable normal activities are vs. how pleasurable meth is, and everyone rates meth at 10 and sex at a 2 or 3. SWIM has experienced D-amphetamine many times... but has never felt like it was really THAT amazing. So what is it that makes methamphetamine so pleasurable?
  #6  
Old 11-04-2010, 17:26
Impure157 Impure157 is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roads View Post
SWIM has seen surveys of how pleasurable normal activities are vs. how pleasurable meth is, and everyone rates meth at 10 and sex at a 2 or 3. SWIM has experienced D-amphetamine many times... but has never felt like it was really THAT amazing. So what is it that makes methamphetamine so pleasurable?
SWIM would have to disagree with those ratings but that might be because he has never smoked his meth. Even the highest quality product he's ever found was extremely fun, more euphoria, faster onset, longer duration, less harsh crash, than dextro-amphetamine but not better than sex or anything that drastic.
An educated guess would have to be that when smoked/injected it is that massive near instantaneous release of dopamine that causes people to say it's better than sex, whereas if orally ingested or insufflated the release of dopamine takes longer so you don't get that rush of euphoria.

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Demonstrates honesty & clear insight into how the chosen method of meth administration can significantly change how the drug can effect a person.
  #7  
Old 30-05-2010, 07:21
onzero onzero is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

as far as dopamine uptake is concerned, methamphetamine is about 1.2-1.5x as potent, but methamphetamine is also strongly serotonergic so it takes a higher dose to feel as "tweaked"

methamphetamine is a "softer feeling" drug (mg for mg) because of the serotonergic action's softening/smoothing/balancing of the dopamine and norepinephrine release.

a lot of people w/ADHD who get prescribed desoxyn after adderall or dexedrine are underwhelmed, find it rather "weak" in its motivational and focus enhancing effects. the serotonergic action of the drug regulates the dopaminergic action, but when you get into higher recreational dosages you get a large release of both which is very euphoric. desoxyn is great because it is relatively free of the obnoxious side effects of standard stimulants like insomnia, mood swings, irritability, dehydration, which makes it a good option for daily use and doesn't "force" focus, but allows the user to have better control over his natural focusing mechanisms, but if you want to pull an all nighter, you're better off with plain old dexamphetamine because of the more "unregulated" dopamine/norepinephrine release..

this may seem like hocum, but i assure you it isn't, just consider most who take dexies or adderall are taking maybe 10-30mg at a time to get pretty ramped up (with newb tolerance) while that figure is probably much higher for methamphetamine depending on the purity of the sample, and why weak or shit methamphetamine is rather underwhelming as well, and may be better suited as a "mood enhancer" than a recreational drug.
  #8  
Old 30-05-2010, 07:43
Demosthysias Demosthysias is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

Swim has never tried meth. and swim has ADHD. but swim has taken up to 60mg of adderall(orally) and 30mg (insufflated). and at that dose was just in a really good mood and didnt sleep or eat for a few days. Swim is very very curious as to how meth would affect him, knowing this. Will it take a lot more than most people to geek me out? As to swiys question, swim is useless due to my lack of experience with meth. swim is curious tho.
  #9  
Old 08-06-2013, 03:07
Crystal_Queen Crystal_Queen is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

Morphine, Heroin, Dextroamphetamine are all "salts" therefore they can easily be
compared. Meth is unique being a "crystal" is probably weaker orally but much much,
stronger if smoked or injected. Crystals are like ultra dense salts...like glass and sand...
no cracks or air inside. if you extracted 10mg of desoxyn you would have a tiny little spec hiding in that pill
lol...
  #10  
Old 10-06-2013, 10:23
tulanthor tulanthor is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

Quote:
Originally Posted by onzero View Post
as far as dopamine uptake is concerned, methamphetamine is about 1.2-1.5x as potent, but methamphetamine is also strongly serotonergic so it takes a higher dose to feel as "tweaked"

methamphetamine is a "softer feeling" drug (mg for mg) because of the serotonergic action's softening/smoothing/balancing of the dopamine and norepinephrine release.
1.2-1.5x is a good estimate that I hear a lot. This is for 3 reasons, 1) methamphetamine is more difficult to be metabolized by your body, so your serum concentrations are higher for longer, 2) methamphetamine is (somewhat) metabolized into regular amphetamine which will prolong effects, and 3) meth has a smaller molecular weight (by about 45 g/mol) so you need less mg of meth to get the same number of moles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal_Queen View Post
Morphine, Heroin, Dextroamphetamine are all "salts" therefore they can easily be
compared. Meth is unique being a "crystal" is probably weaker orally but much much,
stronger if smoked or injected. Crystals are like ultra dense salts...like glass and sand...
no cracks or air inside. if you extracted 10mg of desoxyn you would have a tiny little spec hiding in that pill
lol...
Crystals can be water soluble. Sugar and salt are both crystals. The oral bio availability of meth (according to wiki) is about 63%. Compare this to a 20-40% bio availability of morphine (which is typical of opiates). Relatively speaking, meth is great to be eaten. And technically speaking, morphine heroin, d-amph, and d-meth can be in salt or freebase form, while glass is an amorphous solid and sand (mainly quartz) is a water insoluble crystal. Meth is unique in that when it's a hydrocloride salt it crystallizes very nicely. However, it's still a salt and still soluble in water (thank god).
  #11  
Old 01-07-2013, 21:52
Crooked_AMP_1993 Crooked_AMP_1993 is offline
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Re: Methamphetamine vs. Dextroamphetamine

I'm no pharmacologist but when SWIM tried desoxyn (Dextromethamphetamine) compared to the regular Dextroamphetamine (5mg IR) desoxyn had a shorter duration, more euphoria, no ability to focus, mild hallucinations,paranoia and was hyper as fuck, horrid comedown,to get high Desoxyn is awesome, to focus Dexedrine is better. As far as street meth goes quality and purity vary, so swim stayed far away from that.
To chill out and stay up: Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine
To party and go wild for 5-6 hours do methamphetamine.
Besides where swim resides, meth is like blacklisted from any dealer in town (gangs run the drug industry, and oddly enough the biker gang that controls swims towns illegal drug market, proclaim constantly about the dangers of meth. And Since swim is Canadian, Desoxyn is not prescribed to anyone.

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Please do not use SWIM http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197306

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