People - What do we all think of Timothy Leary now?

[Hyperreal]

I was wondering what people's opinions of Timothy Leary are. Did he do the psychedelic movement more harm than good? What about his writings? Do drugusers these days take the ideas he expressed seriously? Is 'Turn on, tune in, drop out' good advice?

[sands of time]

Most well educated people I have talked to about Leary think he has done more harm than good. That is to be expected, you can't just shove all this LSD talk down peoples throats and expect them to think LSD is the best thing since sliced bread. I feel he has done more harm than good. LSD will not be accepted by the masses and alot of it has to do with him. It also has to do with the fact that modern society does not find exploring your mind to be an acceptable recreational activity.

[unico_walker]

I beleive he saw a chance to try and change society for the better and he took it.

He was probably heavily responsible for a lot of what would become the
psychedelic movement, how could he have caused damage to it if it
didn't exist before him?



If the ideal of the psychedelic movement is so secretive and underground nobody knows about it how is it a movement.

[sands of time]

Originally Posted by unico_walker

I beleive he saw a chance to try and change society for the better and he took it.
He was probably heavily responsible for a lot of what would become the
psychedelic movement, how could he have caused damage to it if it
didn't exist before him?

If the ideal of the psychedelic movement is so secretive and underground nobody knows about it how is it a movement.

And LSD was LEGAL before he got involved! If he had not started praising the use of the drug, LSD might have stayed legal alot longer.

[Freakin_KAT]

Im to young to have known much about the guy but what did this turn on, tune in, drop out mean I wanna know?

[unico_walker]

Originally Posted by sands of time

And LSD was LEGAL before he got involved! If he had not started
praising the use of the drug, LSD might have stayed legal alot longer.

Ah but he did bring it to the masses, 99.9% of the people who have experienced it did so because of him and his contemporaries.

I think he realized what would happen, but hoped he could turn on
enough people before hand to change the world or something. He was
hopeful and it backfired. Or maybe he was worried if LSD wasn't brought
to the recreational users it would stay in research trials and might
wither and be made illegal without ever reaching the world.



Imagine finding this wonderous substance that can be so useful, could
you resist talking about it? Wanting to spread and share it to help the
world.

[Nagognog2]

Perhaps the ultimate tome to Leary and his psychedelic days are best exemplified in the book Millbrook. Written by Art Kleps, it is a great piece on living those times with Leary and his crew. Find a copy. You'll howl!

[Hyperreal]

The text of the book is online here: http://okneoac.com/millbrook.txt

[Sick Jack]

Hunter S. Thompson (Fear&Loathing in L.V.) speaks a lot about Leary and the 60s.

He says that the hippie movement finished been a failure, comparing it to "a wave, that finally broke...".

But would we still speak about the revolutionary potential of psychedelic drugs if he hadn't done all this mistakes ? Hard to say.....

[sands of time]

Originally Posted by Sick Jack

Hunter S. Thompson (Fear&Loathing in L.V.) speaks a lot about Leary and the 60s.

He says that the hippie movement finished been a failure, comparing it to "a wave, that finally broke...".

But would we still speak about the revolutionary potential of psychedelic drugs if he hadn't done all this mistakes ? Hard to say.....

Yea, I think people would still use psychedelics to explore they're mind, although they might be using other psychedelics such as mescaline and DMT. These substances have been used for hundreds of years for the same purposes.

[raven3davis]

Originally Posted by unico_walker

I beleive he saw a chance to try and change society for the better and he took it.
He was probably heavily responsible for a lot of what would become the psychedelic movement, how could he have caused damage to it if it didn't exist before him?

If the ideal of the psychedelic movement is so secretive and underground nobody knows about it how is it a movement.

I agree with this. Even if Leary would have never came around LSD would have been outlawed sooner or later, probably only by a few years.Edited by: raven3davis

[dirk]

Try to put yourself in his position, without the benefit of hindsight.


I think many of us would have done something simmilar.

[armatitumor]

Having recently read "High Priest", I think Timothy Learly had some
interesting ideas, but ended up doing more harm than good, as was
mentioned with the illegalization of LSD. However, the religious
movement he tried to start was a great idea.

[glogga]

Society as a whole isn't ready for LSD. Yet many of us as individuals are. The clash between culture and counter-culture was inevitable, as was the illegalization of LSD. If it weren't Leary there would have been someone else.

[enquirewithin]

You are the owner and operator of
your own brain. Free yourself from imprints and robot behaviour. take
control of yourself. Question authority, including me. </span>Leary, Neuropolitics, </span>1977



I agree with Glogga. You can't blame Leary for LSD being illegal. He
wasn't responsible for Viet Nam either! He was not the only one
distributing LSD. Michael Hollingshead was going around 'turning on the
world.' Leary (along with Alpert and Ram Dass) at Harvard were simply
academics who gave LSD and psylocybin to people. He had a very
egalitarian view of psychedelics, not just restricting them to the
intelligenstia. He did attract Nixon's attention as being the 'most
dangerous man in America.' Nixon hated the hippies (feared them) and the peace movement. Leary was</span> too optimistic and not careful
enough, for which he paid. He was a great egotist. He was a very colouful character,
anti-establishment to the end. Leary was responsible in his use of
psychedelics compared to Kesey and his Merry Pranksters, even
conservative. As for Hunter Thompson, and his Gonzo journalism, he died
an alchoholic. Did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas</span>, amusing as it is, help the 'psychedelic movement"?



I think that Leary had a lot of very influential and original ideas. He has produced some fascinating books, including The Psychedelic Experience</span>, High Priest</span>, The Politics of Ecstasy</span>, in which he combined psychology and Eastern mysticism, and, more recently, Neuropolitics</span>,
with its 8 circuits, and others. He did not just write about LSD, but
about conscoiusness/ the brain more widely. For what it's worth Robert
Anton Wilson calls him the most important philosopher in of the C20.






Edited by: enquirewithin

[armatitumor]

After thinking about the question awhile longer, SWIM has decided that
he belongs more to the Kesey/Pranksters LSD school of thought than Leary's.

[MushroomTrip]

You can't just sit and do nothing if you want a cange in good. In order
to let the poeple know the truth you must speak out. That's one of our
biggest problems. That we don't have the courage to say what's on your
mind and belive in what you feel. I think he did good. He had a lot of
courage because he trully belived in what he did. And i think the
example he left for us was very important. To belive in ourselves and
live oure life the way WE decide, not the way the others decides for
us. He was a great guy.

[Unknown213]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

He was a great egotist.


As for Hunter Thompson, and his Gonzo journalism, he died an alchoholic. Did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, amusing as it is, help the 'psychedelic movement"?

To the first snippet. I have talked to many people who personally knew Leary, and this is never the impression I get. I am curious what your opinion of him as an egotist is drawn from.


Do you think Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas was Hunter's best work? Also, Hunter never set out to help any movement of that sort. He wasn't about responsible slow change that wouldn't offend people. I'm reminded here of his campaign for Sheriff of Pitkin County on the Freak Power ticket. He claimed to be running on a mescaline platform. This man was a sports writer, not an intentioned revolutionary.


I know this doesn't take away from the desire to consider the effects of his work, but I think it should be kept in mind.

[Solidly-here]

Before Leary: Life is JUST life. ... Afterwards: Life is just a part of the picture.


If it weren't for Doctor Leary, there would be Millions less people using LSD (Shrooms, Cactus, Salvia, and RCs). The World would be a very different place. Our Drugs-Forum (probably) would not even exist. Leary's presence was the best advertising campaign in history: "I've found the Mother Lode ... drop a Hit, and you might find it too."


Doctor Leary has said many things about LSD. The news media picked up on one of them, and used it to try and make him look anti-American: "Turn on (drop a Hit)... tune in (to an entirely new Universe) ... anddrop out (of this little World, so you can soar with the eagles)."


It took a Harvard University professor to give Psychedelics the scientific Seal-of-Approval, so that us non-Shaman types would experiment with them. If not for Leary, there might be just 5,000 or so people Trippin' (and I would not be one of them). Thank you, Professor . . . you've changed my life.


Whether or not LSD is legal, it is the Ticket to the other world. In fact (in one way), I am glad that it's illegal. This makes people think twice before Trippin'; if it was legal, kids would just line-up at the pharmacy, and drop them like aspirin.

[Fuzz]

[QUOTE=Solidly-here]





Whether or not LSD is legal, it is the Ticket to the other world. In fact (in one way), I am glad that it's illegal. This makes people think twice before Trippin'; if it was legal, kids would just line-up at the pharmacy, and drop them like aspirin.





*** back in the 60's the kids were dropin them like aspirins. Some jumped right into the current before thikin twice.(media hype, stupidity,rebellion) Leary and his so simple three line verse. Life can never be that simple, your gonna drop out, drop out again, then what. Acid graduation?? With all the frenzy, the weirdness personified in the masses. What was the driving force behind the 60's? was it LSD, was it the war? CIA??


---- not to prove anyone wrong. I really shoulndt even be home.

[MushroomTrip]

Yeah, that's right, it was drug abuse. But humanity has to learn from
it's own mistakes. You do something wrong and you accept the
consequences. And then you get wiser. And you learn. If lsd was't made
illegal, mabe untill now we wold all of learnt how to use it and treat
it with respect. Interdiction is not an answer. All of our major
problem throughout time were because of the interdiction. We must be
aware of that. And if there more people like Timothy Leary it would be
awesome. Because it sets an example we all coul learn from and become
more independent and more aware of who we are.

[Hyperreal]

My problem with Leary is not that he sought publicity for the psychedlic movement. If you want to make a difference, you need to get things out in the open. The problem with the psychedelic movement today is cowardice, the feeling that all publicity is bad publicity.


My problem with Leary is that his ideas are absolute nonsense. The eight circuit modelof consciousness hass absolutely no argument or evidence behind it, it's more just some guy setting out what he believes, like Descartes'Principles of Philosophyor some of the worst products of medieval/ ancient philosophy. As for 'turn on, tune in, drop out', why should we 'drop out'? One of the dangers of psychedelic drug use is that it leads to this sort of inauthenticity, as people become removed from reality and then decide reality isn't all that important. It's not something you should be advocating.


I also dislike the way he jumped on the Buddhist/ mystic bandwagon without question. It's things like that that stop people from doing good philosophical work. Why would someone in 1960s America write a book called Imprinting The Tibetan-Buddhist Experience, why not Imprinting The Western Psychedelic Experience? Because he was suffering from a serious reality deficit, and his ideas paid no attention to the here and now.

[enquirewithin]

Who wrote a book called Imprinting The Tibetan-Buddhist Experience? Not Leary. He wrote a book called The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead, with Alpert and Metzner.He also wrote Psychedelic Prayers , based on the Tao Te Ching. He was not the only writer to liken the psychedelic experience with the mystical experience as described by Eastern mystics-- intellectuals like Aldous Huxley, Alan Watts and Gerald Heard made the same comparison.


Leary's ideas may or not be 'absolute nonsense'. All philosophy is about what people believe. I don't think Leary has much in common with Descartes, who was not a medieval or ancient philosopher. Leary did,however,admire Socrates who was an ancient philospher.


If you had read any of Leary's Neuropolitics, amongst others, in which he outlines the idea of the 8 circuits, you would know that he had by that time lost interest in eastern mysticism.


Perhaps Hyperreal can tell us who is doing good philosophical work 'here and now"?

[Richard_smoker]

Despite all the mystical revivalism that took place in the 60's with the help of the Merry Pranksters, Leary, the Dead, the whole San Francisco HippieMovement, the simple fact of the matter is that it does NOTrequire LSD to bring insight.


In fact, mysticism as a cultural phenomenon has been around since the dawn of man. How else would man survive in a world that is so filled with unexplanable events--good, bad, lucky, unlucky--but for some shaman/mystic/leader/teacher/guru/musical band or whatever to arouse part of the emotional awareness that unites us all as human beings... as we are all, in fact, part of this human experience, be it good or bad.


Check it out: Taoism, Buddism, Hinduism, multitudes of tribal religions practiced and continue to practice the teachings of people who came before them. because, in essence, since we are all of the same consciousness-potential (you and me and a 2,000 year old mummy--when he/she was alive). So, people who are truly drawn to psychic exploration (shaman, but NOT only shaman) are clever and wise enough to draw on the teachings from ancient teachers... for these truths are applicable to all humanity. then as well as now.


I believe that US puritanism/lies/CIA/propaganda finally came to its head, and toppled in the face of LSD. but if it weren't for LSD, then there would have still been a revolution of some sort. I'm sure of it. Just look at how people dressed, acted, and talked in the 1950's. this world was destined to fall to reality...

[Hyperreal]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

Leary's ideas may or not be 'absolute nonsense'. All philosophy is about what people believe. I don't think Leary has much in common with Descartes, who was not a medieval or ancient philosopher. Leary did,however,admire Socrates who was an ancient philospher.

I was referring to the stylistic similarity in the way they put forward a view of the cosmos point by point and try to pass it off as an argument, when in fact it's nothing of the sort.

Perhaps Hyperreal can tell us who is doing good philosophical work 'here and now"?

Richard Rorty, Noam Chomsky, Richard Kearney, a lot of people working in the area of philosophical anthropology, like Wallace Arthur, Michael Ruse and Hubert Yockey, among other. The philosophy of language is finally receiving the attentions it deserves, with guys like Pavel Materna, Carlo Penco etc.