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  #1  
Old 18-02-2010, 12:07
cs92 cs92 is offline
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How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Hi,

Background Medical History
SWIM has been dealing with very bad depression now. SWIM has developed PTSD & De-personalization disorder & anxiety. SWIM is looking for herbal (* legal *) remedies if at all to boost norepinephrine, proven remedies prefered.

Background Herbal History:
SWIM is currently taking 900mg St Johns Wort, 600mg kava-kava daily now. SWIM understands kava-kava should be used no more than 3x a week, but SWIM enjoys the mentally numbing sensation from it. SWIM used to take Valerian, Skullcap, and hops but found it ineffective for insomnia / anxiety.

SWIM has purchased raw organic cacao, and plans on using it as a supplement in the hopes that it will boost serotonin.

SWIM wants to feel on top of the world, SWIM believes that if he or she raises norepinephrine production SWIM will feel on top of the world, that of a cocaine user . SWIM wants to know what herbs you found effective.
  #2  
Old 20-02-2010, 21:07
chibi curmudgeon Gold member chibi curmudgeon is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cs92 View Post
SWIM has been dealing with very bad depression now. SWIM has developed PTSD & De-personalization disorder & anxiety.
swiy needs therapy, not random herbs. There are no magic bullets that will safely make swiy go from depression and PTSD to on top of the world. None. SJW will not help on its own, kava will not help on its own, and anything noradrenergic is likely to make anxiety worse.

If swiy thinks pharmacotherapy might work, swiy needs a psychiatrist.

Post Quality Evaluations:
good advice!
Excellent advice
  #3  
Old 23-02-2010, 20:29
Erytheia Erytheia is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chibi curmudgeon View Post
swiy needs therapy, not random herbs. There are no magic bullets that will safely make swiy go from depression and PTSD to on top of the world. None. SJW will not help on its own, kava will not help on its own, and anything noradrenergic is likely to make anxiety worse.

If swiy thinks pharmacotherapy might work, swiy needs a psychiatrist.
There are two drugs SWIM has experienced which might be classed as a "magic-bullet". Both resulted in destructive-addiction... far more damaging than the positive effects experienced...

SWIY does, indeed, need therapy. SWIY cannot self-medicate into sanity.. it simply does not work!
  #4  
Old 03-03-2010, 15:34
Coldgreentea Coldgreentea is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

My turtle also has depression. He was prescribed wellbutrin and stopped taking it after the third day. He said he felt disconnected and like his feelings were fake. He then decided to change his opinion on depression. He no longer lets it take him over, the second it starts to, he will go do something active, or find something to take his mind off of it. My turtle does have a rather milder case of depression, he never contemplated suicide.
Right now he is taking two supplements. He just started taking SJW a couple days ago, one at morning and one at night, they are extended release and they prolly have not kicked in this soon, but regardless, he thinks they will do something, even if its placebo. He is also taking a ginko supplement and has seen improvements in his memory and intelligence. These feelings are slight and give him just enough confidence to go out in the world and live. Perhaps your friend should try finding a tincture at a health store, these seem to be most effective because they are absorbed quicker, however, tinctures are more expensive.
  #5  
Old 05-03-2010, 19:17
Erytheia Erytheia is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldgreentea View Post
My turtle also has depression. He was prescribed wellbutrin and stopped taking it after the third day. He said he felt disconnected and like his feelings were fake. He then decided to change his opinion on depression. He no longer lets it take him over, the second it starts to, he will go do something active, or find something to take his mind off of it. My turtle does have a rather milder case of depression, he never contemplated suicide.
Right now he is taking two supplements. He just started taking SJW a couple days ago, one at morning and one at night, they are extended release and they prolly have not kicked in this soon, but regardless, he thinks they will do something, even if its placebo. He is also taking a ginko supplement and has seen improvements in his memory and intelligence. These feelings are slight and give him just enough confidence to go out in the world and live. Perhaps your friend should try finding a tincture at a health store, these seem to be most effective because they are absorbed quicker, however, tinctures are more expensive.
Well isn't that a pretty-world to set before that issue. :P

Lucky turtle, but not any predictable-treatment. :/
  #6  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:21
Boca Bitch Boca Bitch is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cs92 View Post
Hi,

Background Medical History
SWIM has been dealing with very bad depression now. SWIM has developed PTSD & De-personalization disorder & anxiety. SWIM is looking for herbal (* legal *) remedies if at all to boost norepinephrine, proven remedies prefered.

Background Herbal History:
SWIM is currently taking 900mg St Johns Wort, 600mg kava-kava daily now. SWIM understands kava-kava should be used no more than 3x a week, but SWIM enjoys the mentally numbing sensation from it. SWIM used to take Valerian, Skullcap, and hops but found it ineffective for insomnia / anxiety.

SWIM has purchased raw organic cacao, and plans on using it as a supplement in the hopes that it will boost serotonin.

SWIM wants to feel on top of the world, SWIM believes that if he or she raises norepinephrine production SWIM will feel on top of the world, that of a cocaine user . SWIM wants to know what herbs you found effective.
Unfortunately, when it comes to psychopharmacology, it's difficult and sometimes dangerous to go holistic. I would recommend that SWIY drop the kava down to the bare maximum of twice a week consumption.... as it has been documented to be a hepatotoxic substance (SWIY wouldn't self-medicate with alcohol, would SWIY?).
About the cacao: it contains xanthines, specifically theobromine and caffeine which are active as adenosine antagonists, which makes them indirectly glutaminergic and to a lesser extent, dopaminergic agonists. They really have no effect at all on serotonin. 5-HT is the precursor to serotonin, and the only "natural" supplement that raises serotonin levels; this comes with a serious down-side though... as it's been linked to heart valve disfunction.

Raising norepinephrine levels naturally doesn't exist outside of coca leaf consumption.... which is unfortunately illegal in most countries.

My suggestion: exercise and a healthy (plenty of lean meats, whole grains, fruits and vegetables) diet is the best way to maintain a healthy balance within the body and mind, holistically. And if SWIY feels like they need something more, talk-therapy with a psychologist is the way to go!
Stop seeking supplements that are largely not understood by the medical community; it's a quick-fix [band-aid] that doesn't resolve underlying issues, which makes it arguably just as bad as being on a prescription regiment, if not worse.

I'm sorry my post is largely not what you were looking to hear in a response. But I think that the way SWIY's going about self-medicating SWIYself needs to end. Tell SWIY to exercise more, and they'll see a significant reduction in anxiety... I know it helped me, and I have been diagnosed PD and GAD. And hell, smoking the occasional joint to reduce those extremely stressful times never hurt anybody.
  #7  
Old 09-03-2010, 21:59
Skittleburst14 Skittleburst14 is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cs92 View Post
Hi,

Background Medical History
SWIM has been dealing with very bad depression now. SWIM has developed PTSD & De-personalization disorder & anxiety. SWIM is looking for herbal (* legal *) remedies if at all to boost norepinephrine, proven remedies prefered.

Background Herbal History:
SWIM is currently taking 900mg St Johns Wort, 600mg kava-kava daily now. SWIM understands kava-kava should be used no more than 3x a week, but SWIM enjoys the mentally numbing sensation from it. SWIM used to take Valerian, Skullcap, and hops but found it ineffective for insomnia / anxiety.

SWIM has purchased raw organic cacao, and plans on using it as a supplement in the hopes that it will boost serotonin.

SWIM wants to feel on top of the world, SWIM believes that if he or she raises norepinephrine production SWIM will feel on top of the world, that of a cocaine user . SWIM wants to know what herbs you found effective.
Hello SWIM,
Skittleb found your post today while searching for some information about norepinephrine/epinephrine, and is extremely concerrned about SWIM. The feelings and thoughts SWIM is expressing are consistent with someone who is reaching neurotransmitter depletion - yes, all of them. That means that every single time SWIM does anything - gets up from standing, goes to sleep (or tries to), feels a temperature increase, encounters allergens, talks with someone (or leaves someone), deboards a train, eats a pickle or a banana, SWIM feels it. SWIM doesn't get quality sleep, even if SWIM is sleeping for long hours, and SWIM likely wakes up earlier than SWIM wants to. SWIM is often cold before and after eating. SWIM can't cry and needs and deserves to have that release. Almost no one seems to understand SWIM, and SWIM doesn't want to talk to a counselor SWIM thinks would not understand how horrible life has been for SWIM. SWIM also realizes the power of psychopharmacology and realizes that feeling good is a pill away. SWIM is brilliant beyond imagination, and that is why SWIM must do everything in SWIMs power to protect SWIMs brain, especially right now while SWIM is in a neuortransmitter crisis, so to speak.

Skittleb is so sorry that SWIM has so much going on, and that SWIM has almost certainly endured multiple episodes of horrible stress and trauma that few could imagine. Skittleb wanted to cry after reading SWIM's post it was so sad. However, Skitteb is 100% confident that SWIM can build SWIMs brain and body back to a healthier place, except SWIM has to understand that due to depleting SWIMs neurotransmitters (not AT ALL SWIMS fault, no matter what anyone tells SWIM, including SWIM's own brain), SWIM cannot use pharmacologics of any kind right now (including herbs and coffee and pretty much everything SWIM mentioned) as the potential for imbalance is too extreme from the least manipulation.

Skittleb would like SWIM to start slowly and allow SWIMs brain to rebuild itself (again, 100% possible, despite what SWIMs brain tells SWIM every day here and there.) Skittleb would like SWIM to know that tryptophan has privileged access in SWIMs brain, and this needs to be restored first so that SWIM can make the best possible decisions for SWIMs recovery to feeling good regularly. Skittleb would like SWIM to consider eating protein and carbohydrates and milk with every intake of food, and start eating every 2 hours at least. Hang in there the best SWIM can. Start with that, and post back. Skittleb believes SWIM can do this.

(Side note: Because SWIM has an awesome brain, quite unlike any other, SWIM's gifted brain will benefit from the right counselor tremendously in the future, but SWIMs brain needs to be healthy enough to process "higher level neurotransmitter activation," which is what SWIM can think of for now when SWIM thinks of talk-therapy.)
  #8  
Old 15-03-2010, 05:15
cs92 cs92 is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

SWIM would like to thank everyone for posting, including skittleb - SWIM really appreciated your post.

SWIM is currently unemployed, uninsured, and out of school. SWIM's mental state is constantly afflicted by these feelings SWIM feels.

SWIM's diet is mainly carbs, fats, and sugars - lacking vitamin content. SWIM will take a multi-vitamin to prevent vitamin defiency, which may play a possible role in low neurotransmitter levels.

Update:

SWIM has found a temporary hypnotic remedy to SWIM's insomnia - due to the PTSD keeping SWIM up all night. SWIM administers Diphenhydramine hydrochloride (* Generic Benadryl *) 75mg 1-2 hours prior before sleeping. SWIM has found this has worked tremendously in promoting sleep, and reducing anxiety. SWIM's side effects of Diphenhydramine hydrochloride seems to be very vivid intense dreams almost seeming real which scared SWIM last night.

SWIM has stopped taking St. Johns Wort 900mg, Kava-Kava, Valerian, Skullcap, and Hops - as SWIM has found this ineffective. SWIM takes a supplement "Natrol Memory Complex: Vitamin B12, B6, Ginkgo, Soy lecithin *) twice daily to try to rid himself of the mental fog.

SWIM believes his OCD / GAD which caused SWIM's manic depression stems from childhood ADHD disorder - SWIM stopped perscription use of Concerta in the 8th grade due to paranoia and weight loss. SWIM is considering once of legal age to become insured by a health insurance provider - getting back on the Concerta. SWIM is under the assumption these ADHD medications also boost nuerotransmitters. SWIM does not have access to a counselor, and uses his girlfriend as counseling support.

SWIM is considering 5-htp as it was recommended that this substance is better than tyrtophan.

Lastly, SWIM felt a little odd one day. His body felt tingly all over starting from the back down to the legs - as if SWIM saw a ghost. This experience repeated every 30 minutes that day.

SWIM would again like to thank everyone here for their advice / support.

Sincerely,

cs92
  #9  
Old 22-03-2010, 16:25
Skittleburst14 Skittleburst14 is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Hey SWIM! Thanks for posting back! Sounds like you are really trying your best to get to a healthy place, and that's cool. (Well, the ghost part sounds a little odd though, hope everything is okay there! Maybe need to cut down a bit on the supplement cocktails? LoL. (That kind of feeling of "unrest" so to speak, can also stem from malnutrition, just as an fyi.)
-skittleb
  #10  
Old 23-03-2010, 17:02
chibi curmudgeon Gold member chibi curmudgeon is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cs92 View Post
SWIM is currently unemployed, uninsured, and out of school. SWIM's mental state is constantly afflicted by these feelings SWIM feels.

SWIM's diet is mainly carbs, fats, and sugars - lacking vitamin content. SWIM will take a multi-vitamin to prevent vitamin defiency, which may play a possible role in low neurotransmitter levels.
These are probably the cause of 95% of swiy's problems. Obviously, I can't just tell swiy to get a job, but he should seek out agencies or hotlines that can help, if not with employment, then with insurance AND, most importantly, with finding a health care professional to talk to.

I hope the italics and bold are enough and I don't need to put that phrase in 40 pt blinky text.

Quote:
SWIM has found a temporary hypnotic remedy to SWIM's insomnia - due to the PTSD keeping SWIM up all night. SWIM administers Diphenhydramine hydrochloride (* Generic Benadryl *) 75mg 1-2 hours prior before sleeping. SWIM has found this has worked tremendously in promoting sleep, and reducing anxiety. SWIM's side effects of Diphenhydramine hydrochloride seems to be very vivid intense dreams almost seeming real which scared SWIM last night.
swiy might want to scale back that dose.

Quote:
SWIM has stopped taking St. Johns Wort 900mg, Kava-Kava, Valerian, Skullcap, and Hops - as SWIM has found this ineffective.
I for one am shocked, shocked that all those placebo-controlled clinical trials were correct.

Quote:
SWIM takes a supplement "Natrol Memory Complex: Vitamin B12, B6, Ginkgo, Soy lecithin *) twice daily to try to rid himself of the mental fog.
There is no point in swiy (who you said was unemployed and uninsured) wasting his money on this if he's taking a multivitamin.

Quote:
SWIM believes his OCD / GAD which caused SWIM's manic depression stems from childhood ADHD disorder
A bold diagnosis, Doctor. Could swiy show me the literature that suggests one mental illness can cause another?

Quote:
SWIM is under the assumption these ADHD medications also boost nuerotransmitters.
I don't think swiy understands what norepi does. It causes anxiety. Concerta is likely to make the anxiety worse.

Quote:
SWIM does not have access to a counselor, and uses his girlfriend as counseling support.
I'm guessing that some way, somehow, unless swiy lives in a very rural area and has no transportation, swiy does have access--at least temporarily--to some kind of health professional who can help. For free or on a sliding scale payment plan.

Quote:
SWIM is considering 5-htp as it was recommended that this substance is better than tyrtophan.
swiy needs to stop wasting his money on supplements.

Quote:
Lastly, SWIM felt a little odd one day. His body felt tingly all over starting from the back down to the legs - as if SWIM saw a ghost. This experience repeated every 30 minutes that day.
I hope that's not from excessive B vitamins....
  #11  
Old 31-03-2010, 08:25
Retinoidreceptor Retinoidreceptor is offline
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Re: How to boost norepinephrine - herbally?

Unfortunately you probably will never feel on top of the world/extremely positive unless you are on some hard drug (cocaine, meth, heroin, pcp). The people who feel extremely positive and happy all the time are very lucky and rare. Just like the people who feel extremely negative and sad all the time are very UNlucky and rare. Most people feel bad sometimes, good sometimes and deal with the ups and downs pretty easily. My wish is to be in the middle. I know I can't ever be extremely happy and positive naturally (only time I was 100% positive was when I was high off of oxycontin and obviously you can't be like that all the time). Your goal should be stability. If you are stable then outside forces can bring up up. If you are always down in the gutter all the time then you can't possibly get up without a rope.

To answer your question, there really aren't any LEGAL herbs that will help you immensely in my opinion. St. John's wort I know helps people with mild depression at the 900mg level that you are taking. Other than that, all the other stuff is just a bunch of maybes and possibilities.

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antidepressants, kava, kava kava, norepinephrine, ssri, tea

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